Arizona Facts

Gamekiller · Jul 15, 2004

Guys, I have been on the sidelines for a long time without a post. I am a non-resident to Arizona. Let me start by explaining that I am not trying to raise hackles here but lets look at the facts. I have been preaching to Arizona residents for years that the system in place is unfair, and will be attacked. I am totally in agreement that residents should be given a majority of the tags, but the problem in Arizona has been the vagueness of how many are allocated to non-residents for elk and deer north of the river. For years I have lobbied your game department to set a fixed quota as they do in all other Western states. Set it at a fair number, between 10 and 20%, put the non-residents in this draw, and the problem is solved. The current system calls for "no more than 10%"... Well what is "no more than?", is it 1%, 2%, what is it? Is is a joke.... Set a number like all other states (Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, etc...) Problem solved, no lawsuit, everybody happy.... Sorry to rain on the parade but the current system is flawed whether you want to believe it or not. I am not a friend or supporter of USO, but truly the system should be changed to reflect what Arizona residents are privy to in adjoining states... My $0.02 worth.....

AZbowhntr · Jul 15, 2004

Let me ask you this. If only 5% of everyone that puts in for the strip is non-resident, should the non-resident still get between 10 and 20%? Because I don't think that the % is that high. I would like to see the numbers though.

huntazido · Jul 16, 2004

Exactly! If 95% of the applicants are residents why should NR's get 10-20 percent of the tags? If this were the case I would gladly pay higher fees and apply as a NR. I would love to have those kind of odds. Until this gets fixed correctly I would advocate for either making drawing a AZ bull tag a once in lifetime opportunity for NR's or only let residents apply for bull hunts. I'm a little dissapointed to feel this way because I have nothing against NR's who just want to hunt but I hope USO just bit their own arse. The greed of a few is disheartening and sickening!

I have four young kids, and 12,10,8,and 6 two girls and two boys and I can only imagine how this will affect my dreams of taking my kids hunting for elk in the state in which they were born and raised.

I'll be at today's meeting with my AZ Elk Society hat on. Hope to finally meet some of the people who post here.

John

bubbas · Jul 16, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-04 AT 10:48AM (MST)[p]The way I understood the old system was that non-residentswere in the same draw as residents. If and when non-residents drew a number of tags for a given hunt that equaled 10% of the total tags for that hunt then there were no more non-res tags issued for that particular hunt. The thing is I think they rarely if ever reached that cap for non-res because there were so many res. putting in and so few tags. Therefore by ensuring that non-res get 10-20% of the tags gives them much better odds than the residents. Does that sound fair? I understand this is how Utah and Nevada run it and frankly I think it's better like how Az runs it. I guess Az will haveto increase their non-res $ to be at least equal to NV since we have a higher demand product? Is this what you want?

Choppit · Jul 16, 2004

Lets be honest Gamekiller, you know that if it says no more than 10%, they are going to max it out to 10 becuase the non res permits are more. We both know that The Game and Fish Dept is about the dollars in that sense. THe problem now is that other states will fall along with AZ and pretty soon it will be next to impossible to ever get another tag. Its bad enough as it is with the internet thing. The other issue is that Lawrence Montoya or USO is not just wanting to guarantee the 10%, they want the cap gone. If we fall, your state will fall too.

schmalts · Jul 16, 2004

I say the AZ residents should fight back by making a suit of their own that will say outfitter preference on any draw is discimination. That will make it hard for USO's clients to draw in NM (home state for them and main outfitting state) and also make thier tag application service pretty much useless and non-effective. That will hit his wallet where it counts. I know a few freinds that use USO and outfitters just because it makes their odds better for drawing a tag. That my friends is discrimination and i cannot see any judge ruling otherwise. I tried in the past to get something started but was called a complainer here. but maybe now many of you will see that if we keep letting big businesses run us off of public land they will keep pushing for whats best for them and their rich clients. I wouldnt be surprised if AZ works out a deal with this company to allow for some outfitter preference to go into place as a middle ground.

jthunt · Jul 18, 2004

Sounds like the boys at USO will get there way which will mean instead of a couple of hundred dollars for a non resident tag they will raise it to a few thousand and the only non residents that will be able to afford it will be a few people that can afford the stiff raise.
That will lesson the odds of to many out of state hunters. I hate when it comes down to pricing out the average (true) hunter. Tough blow for all out of staters in the future.
I think it was for the best to have the draw now it comes to who will be able to afford to go out of state. Thanks USO Aholers

Someburro · Jul 18, 2004

If they set aside 10% of the tags for NR's, I WILL apply for tag as a NR. Shouldn't be illegal as long as I pay the extra $$$$.

Zim · Jul 18, 2004

I see a lot of posts with people demanding NR fees to shoot through the roof for revenge against USO and all nonresidents. However, I can't see that happening. What sense does it make to screw the average joe? They would just get sued again for discrimination. Look what happened in New Mexico. After legal pressure they raised NR tag quotas to 22%, but did not raise the tag fees one dime. Still haven't.

RACKMASTER · Jul 18, 2004

Ohh! I think I am seeing the bigger picture here!
Thanks Gamekiller! The residents are going to lose their candy store! Think I will put in for the Strip from now on if its gets
to where the draw does not appear lop-sided!(my buddy said some thing was wrong with the Arizona draw!
QUESTION: Do you AZ residents think any of the other western
states draw seem far to non res?
RACKMASTER

BSHunter · Jul 19, 2004

Okay here is the answer to everyones problem, Let's uncap non-res. tags in all states and lower tag prices so everyone pays the same price, then everybody can hunt in which ever state they can get a tag. Oops then we open ourselves to a law suit by all of those people who don't make enough money to travel to other states to hunt.