Attend or watch tomorrow's Wildlife Board meeting

[Amy]

The Utah Wildlife Board is meeting tomorrow (Thursday, Sept. 21) at 9 a.m., and there's a mix of items on the agenda, including some related to fishing and some related to the Conservation Permit Program. The meeting will be held at the Eccles Wildlife Education Center, located at 1157 South Waterfowl Way in Farmington. You are welcome to attend in person or to watch the meeting online.


Amy Canning
Communications Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

 

[elkfromabove]

Not a single comment yet! Didn't any of you see this audit of the most dishonest program the DWR has in their system? Well, I did and here's what I saw. I can't decide if it is a scam or just a sham, but it's one or the other depending on whether or not the wildlife board members fully understand it and their responsibility regarding managing it for the benefit of the general public who owns the assets being auctioned off.

First off, the Wildlife Board should have a person on it that represents the general public, including the general hunting community. If there is one, I couldn't identify him or her.

Second: they said that neighboring states are envious of this program and "scramble/gravel" (1:01) to come up with the money they need to manage their wildlife. But, they all have different systems and have budgets much larger than Utah does and it's paid for by ALL citizens in the form of state taxes. (or gambling revenues) and all they have to do is submit a budget just like the other departments in the state. In any case, Utah's budget is $124,931,013 and shows that Sportsmans revenue is 4% of the budget, while Restricted Funds (licenses, permits, Certificates of Registration, donations, license plates, fines, and other fees paid by Normal Joes is 44% of the budget and Federal Funds (Pittman Robertson taxes) which are also paid for by Normal Joes is 37% of the budget. In other words, you and I pay about $100m, while this program pays $5m. Is it worth it? Read Bottom Line.

Third: Per Don Peay, it promises to improve the hunting in Utah (The Serengeti of the Rockies) and increase the tag numbers. Per Wade on the video (1:02) "There can be no denying the good that it does." "It is serving us well", and "is serving its purpose well." Is it? Let's check past Annual Reports. (Since not all Yearly Deer Reports show the tag numbers, I chose to use General Deer Hunters Afield numbers to illustrate how this program has affected hunters and hunting.) In 2000 there were 94,304 hunters afield, in 2005-79,226, in 2010-74,191, in 2015-67,128, in 2021-66,624, in 2022-61,174. There could be several reasons why a person with a tag didn't use it, but a 65% drop in hunters afield does not sound like any kind of increase in tag numbers nor better hunting for those that have them.

Fourth: It takes a "small percentage of permits", "less than 2% of all permits" (52:20-53:00). While that is a true statement, they leave out the fact that those permits are the most coveted permits we have (OIL, Limited Entry, Premium LE)! They have to be in order to get the revenue they get. Additionally, we are not told the 200 Expo permits also take those coveted permits, as do the CWMU's and Landowners.(

Fifth: Dearth asks (1:13:45) why such an increase in revenue for these tags in 2022 and gets a "because of covid" answer, but my answer would be different. Because the revenue for about the same number of tags (chart-1:05.57) has gone up (chart-1:07:51) each year, I think it's because it's the increasing value of these tags which become more and more difficult to obtain. I've heard John auction these tags off and he is a master at playing to the gambler in all of us. It reminds me of fishing for steelhead or salmon on the river. They don't really want to eat the bait. They just don't want it to get away. And the rarer the prize, the more money the winner is willing to give for it. That's why most of these organizations (and some individuals on this forum) are in a trophy mode and why we have poachers and guides in trouble with the law. and why there's so much infighting between hunters. It's the value they arbitrarily place on the prize. FWIW, the coveted prize may also be a tag every year. That also could cause poaching, infighting and trouble with the law.

Bottom line, Is it working? It appears not! Utah's wildlife is no better off with this money than our neighbors' wildlife is without it! All of our neighboring states are in the same boat regarding wildlife populations, especially mule deer herds. In 2001 we had a deer population of 310,720, and in 2021, which is the latest year calculated and published, it was 305,700, a LOSS of 5,000, even with all the money spent on projects to increase the population.

So what's the solution(s)? Should we abandon this program? In my opinion, NO! But only if more of the money is used controlling cheatgrass. Like my household, I don't think there's much of an issue about the money coming in. It's the money going out that sometimes troubles me. In this case, I don't think there's enough money being used to control cheatgrass which is prevalent in almost every area being worked on. Cheatgrass is nasty stuff that ruins the soil it grows on, so the new plantings don't pick up the minerals and nutrients they could without it. And all of the clearings and burnings just make it easier for cheatgrass to grow. Much of the habitat work should come only after controlling the cheatgrass.

Maybe this program would be liked more if it showed some promised results, and if the conservation organizations, the DWR and the Wildlife Board were honest in their disussions bout it, but until then, it's either a scam or a sham.

 

[matt23]

Not a single comment yet! Didn't any of you see this audit of the most dishonest program the DWR has in their system? Well, I did and here's what I saw. I can't decide if it is a scam or just a sham, but it's one or the other depending on whether or not the wildlife board members fully understand it and their responsibility regarding managing it for the benefit of the general public who owns the assets being auctioned off.

First off, the Wildlife Board should have a person on it that represents the general public, including the general hunting community. If there is one, I couldn't identify him or her.

Second: they said that neighboring states are envious of this program and "scramble/gravel" (1:01) to come up with the money they need to manage their wildlife. But, they all have different systems and have budgets much larger than Utah does and it's paid for by ALL citizens in the form of state taxes. (or gambling revenues) and all they have to do is submit a budget just like the other departments in the state. In any case, Utah's budget is $124,931,013 and shows that Sportsmans revenue is 4% of the budget, while Restricted Funds (licenses, permits, Certificates of Registration, donations, license plates, fines, and other fees paid by Normal Joes is 44% of the budget and Federal Funds (Pittman Robertson taxes) which are also paid for by Normal Joes is 37% of the budget. In other words, you and I pay about $100m, while this program pays $5m. Is it worth it? Read Bottom Line.

Third: Per Don Peay, it promises to improve the hunting in Utah (The Serengeti of the Rockies) and increase the tag numbers. Per Wade on the video (1:02) "There can be no denying the good that it does." "It is serving us well", and "is serving its purpose well." Is it? Let's check past Annual Reports. (Since not all Yearly Deer Reports show the tag numbers, I chose to use General Deer Hunters Afield numbers to illustrate how this program has affected hunters and hunting.) In 2000 there were 94,304 hunters afield, in 2005-79,226, in 2010-74,191, in 2015-67,128, in 2021-66,624, in 2022-61,174. There could be several reasons why a person with a tag didn't use it, but a 65% drop in hunters afield does not sound like any kind of increase in tag numbers nor better hunting for those that have them.

Fourth: It takes a "small percentage of permits", "less than 2% of all permits" (52:20-53:00). While that is a true statement, they leave out the fact that those permits are the most coveted permits we have (OIL, Limited Entry, Premium LE)! They have to be in order to get the revenue they get. Additionally, we are not told the 200 Expo permits also take those coveted permits, as do the CWMU's and Landowners.(

Fifth: Dearth asks (1:13:45) why such an increase in revenue for these tags in 2022 and gets a "because of covid" answer, but my answer would be different. Because the revenue for about the same number of tags (chart-1:05.57) has gone up (chart-1:07:51) each year, I think it's because it's the increasing value of these tags which become more and more difficult to obtain. I've heard John auction these tags off and he is a master at playing to the gambler in all of us. It reminds me of fishing for steelhead or salmon on the river. They don't really want to eat the bait. They just don't want it to get away. And the rarer the prize, the more money the winner is willing to give for it. That's why most of these organizations (and some individuals on this forum) are in a trophy mode and why we have poachers and guides in trouble with the law. and why there's so much infighting between hunters. It's the value they arbitrarily place on the prize. FWIW, the coveted prize may also be a tag every year. That also could cause poaching, infighting and trouble with the law.

Bottom line, Is it working? It appears not! Utah's wildlife is no better off with this money than our neighbors' wildlife is without it! All of our neighboring states are in the same boat regarding wildlife populations, especially mule deer herds. In 2001 we had a deer population of 310,720, and in 2021, which is the latest year calculated and published, it was 305,700, a LOSS of 5,000, even with all the money spent on projects to increase the population.

So what's the solution(s)? Should we abandon this program? In my opinion, NO! But only if more of the money is used controlling cheatgrass. Like my household, I don't think there's much of an issue about the money coming in. It's the money going out that sometimes troubles me. In this case, I don't think there's enough money being used to control cheatgrass which is prevalent in almost every area being worked on. Cheatgrass is nasty stuff that ruins the soil it grows on, so the new plantings don't pick up the minerals and nutrients they could without it. And all of the clearings and burnings just make it easier for cheatgrass to grow. Much of the habitat work should come only after controlling the cheatgrass.

Maybe this program would be liked more if it showed some promised results, and if the conservation organizations, the DWR and the Wildlife Board were honest in their disussions bout it, but until then, it's either a scam or a sham.

To long of a rant. I didn't read 75 percent of it

 

[elkfromabove]

And I only mentioned about half the lies that were said in the meeting! I guess that's why they get away with crap like this program. It's too boring for the typical Utah hunter to deal with. In fact there was only one audience member willing to speak about the program and that was Troy Justeson, SFW's President and all he talked about was how great it was to have the best job in the world and work with the other organizations and DWR in this program and he would miss Miles Moretti, MDF's President who just passed away. You'd rather fight with each other over the dwindling tag numbers rather than do something to stop the dwindling. Like the song says, "Don't it always seem to go. Ya don't know what you got 'til it's gone. Pave paradise, Put up a parking lot."

 

[elkassassin]

Now They're Talking about a "2-POINTER HUNT"

Who's Gonna Apply!

Don't Be Bashful!

 

[elkfromabove]

Now They're Talking about a "2-POINTER HUNT"

Who's Gonna Apply!

Don't Be Bashful!

And that won't fix the problem, but neither will increasing the number of trophy/mature/quality hunts, nor even the banning of ALL doe hunts. They are not the fix because they are not the cause. It's the amount and quality of the HABITAT which we are losing on both ends. This program as currently administered is a band-aid for a long-term festering wound and sooner or later invasive annual grasses, primarily cheatgrass, will catch up to hunters to the point that drawing ANY deer tag will be a 5 year wait. From 94,000 General Hunt hunters afield to 61,000 General Hunt hunters afield in 22 years, you do the math!

 

[elkassassin]

I Won't Argue With Your Cheat Grass Statement efa!

Now Throw Another 49+ Reasons Why & We'll See How Fast We Can Fix It!

HINT:

It Ain't Gonna Get Fixed!

51 Years & Counting!

And that won't fix the problem, but neither will increasing the number of trophy/mature/quality hunts, nor even the banning of ALL doe hunts. They are not the fix because they are not the cause. It's the amount and quality of the HABITAT which we are losing on both ends. This program as currently administered is a band-aid for a long-term festering wound and sooner or later invasive annual grasses, primarily cheatgrass, will catch up to hunters to the point that drawing ANY deer tag will be a 5 year wait. From 94,000 General Hunt hunters afield to 61,000 General Hunt hunters afield in 22 years, you do the math!

 

[elkantlers]

Fear not EFA, the Serengetti of the west is just one more WB meeting away.

 

[mtnrunner260]

With cheatgrass on the winter range, fire suppression on the winter range and the transition range covered with houses and highways, what's not to like about the future of Utah's deer herd?

 

[elkassassin]

Can I Say Everything?

With cheatgrass on the winter range, fire suppression on the winter range and the transition range covered with houses and highways, what's not to like about the future of Utah's deer herd?

 

[elkassassin]

Looks Like Birdman Was There At The WB Meeting!

 

[MrShane]

To long of a rant. I didn't read 75 percent of it

Couldn’t you have just read the remaining 75% more quickly than typing that you did not read it?

 

[matt23]

Couldn’t you have just read the remaining 75% more quickly than typing that you did not read it?

Negative.

 

[elkfromabove]

Negative.

But did you watch the meeting?

 

[Dangbig]

Now They're Talking about a "2-POINTER HUNT"

Who's Gonna Apply!

Don't Be Bashful!

I thought that was what the current rifle hunt was? Lol ?

 

[elkfromabove]

I Won't Argue With Your Cheat Grass Statement efa!

Now Throw Another 49+ Reasons Why & We'll See How Fast We Can Fix It!

HINT:

It Ain't Gonna Get Fixed!

51 Years & Counting!

#1-Eliminate/control cheatgrass.
#2-Replace mycorrhizal fungus damaged or destroyed by cheatgrass to improve soil and to improve mineral and water intake of other plants.
#3-Plant herbs, native grasses, brush, forbs, etc. that are used as forage by wildlife, especially deer. (see #1/2)
#4-Determine causes of deer mortality (Already doing that per several studies)
#5-starvation (see #1/2/3)
#6-manutrition (see #1/2/3)
#7-8-desease-for healthier deer (see #1/2/3)-continue to monitor cases of CWD at weigh stations
#9-14-infections caused by cheatgrass seeds embedded in eyes, ears, nose, mouth, genitals & between hoofs-(see #1)
#15-21-roadkill-for a reduction in numbers of deer using salts on roads for mineral intake (see #2)-continue to install fences, escape ramps, overpasses, underpasses, deer crossing signs, roadside brush removal
#22-25-predation-reduce the number of vulnerable deer ie; healthier deer are usually not targeted by predators (see#1/2/3)-open season on cougars-bounty on coyotes (already in place)-professional shooters from choppers (need to do)
#26-27-winterkill-healthier deer have better fat ratios (see #1/2/3)-winter feeding, if neccessary, of pellets made of natural forage not hay
#28-30-accidents-healthier deer have fewer accidents ie; falls, caught in fences, broken bones (see #1/2/3)
#31-fawning-no AW hunts during rut so major fawning takes place at the same time-(see #32/33/34)
#32-33-migration-continue to capture and tag deer for studies in migration patterns including vaginal birth signal devices and tagging of neonates.
#34-higher percentage of buck hunts after rut, lower percentage before-no AW buck hunts during rut
#35-36-poaching-stiffer/automatic penalties for poaching big game.
#37-38-burning-cheatgrass is easily ignited and burns fast and too hot for sagebrush to survive well, so care must be taken by DWR, BLM, NFS while prescribe burning and the public must be careful to follow the daily fire restrictions or face serious fines.
#39-41-water-continue to construct and maintain guzzlers, catchments and wells as determined by the weather and location.
#42-46-private property-continue to recruit and establish CWMU's, landowner areas, walk-in-access areas, depredation hunts, extended archery areas
#47-continue to buy such private property which has deer habitat as it becomes available.
#48-continue to seek and accept donations, gifts and charitable contributions from the general public.
#49-continue with the wildlife license plate program
#50-continue the Dedicated Hunter program, the Hardware Ranch rides, the various slams and other sources of additional funding.

Note: None of the above is Social! It's biological and financial. And most of it, we're already doing.

Edited, And I could add lop & scatter, bullhog, chaining, herbicides, arial seeding, classifying and who knows what else to my list.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

It Perty Much Is!

But They Must Wanna Make Sure They Kill All Little Bucks!

I thought that was what the current rifle hunt was? Lol ?

 

[Deerlove]

Other states are Envy of us? LOL

 

[elkfromabove]

But They Must Wanna Make Sure They Kill All Little Bucks!

Nope!
They Just Wanna Make Sure They Kill All The Excess Bucks That Are Not Needed For The Rut And Provide A Hunting Opportunity For 60,000 Utah Deer Hunters!

 

[elkassassin]

A Few Years Ago I Predicted They'd Start a MOTL Hunt!

Was I Wrong?

 

[Hawkeye]

EFA-

Well done. Your post #16 hits the nail on the head. There are numerous factors impacting our deer herds, and the DWR is already trying to address many of those factors. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to the problem or the UDWR would have already implemented that solution along with every other western state.

Cutting buck tags and closing units will not grow our deer herds over the long term despite Elkster's constant yelling and whining. It would merely stockpile a few older age-class bucks for the next year and further reduce the number of hunters in the state. That strategy has been tried over and over again without any long term herd improvement. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Hawkeye

 

[elkfromabove]

A Few Years Ago I Predicted They'd Start a MOTL Hunt!

Was I Wrong?

Yep!
The General hunt(s) you're now calling a MOTL hunt has been going on for as long as deer have been managed. Two-points have ALWAYS been easier to hunt (and still are), so when ANY buck with antlers is legal, two-point bucks will be the majority of the harvest.

 

[elkassassin]

Like That Hasn't Al;ready Been Happening For Decades Already?

Yep!
The General hunt(s) you're now calling a MOTL hunt has been going on for as long as deer have been managed. Two-points have ALWAYS been easier to hunt (and still are), so when ANY buck with antlers is legal, two-point bucks will be the majority of the harvest.

 

[elkassassin]

EFA-

Well done. Your post #16 hits the nail on the head. There are numerous factors impacting our deer herds, and the DWR is already trying to address many of those factors. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to the problem or the UDWR would have already implemented that solution along with every other western state.

Cutting buck tags and closing units will not grow our deer herds over the long term despite Elkster's constant yelling and whining. It would merely stockpile a few older age-class bucks for the next year and further reduce the number of hunters in the state. That strategy has been tried over and over again without any long term herd improvement. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So?

The Less Deer We have The Harder You Want To Hunt Them?

I Do Believe We've Been Doing That For Many Decades As Well!

How's That Panning Out For You hawky Just About Now & For Several Years?

When Somebody Gets Serious!

We'll Start Doing Something To Increase Deer Numbers!

But Until Then:

Keep Shootin Your Does!

Keep Shootin 2 Points!

That Should Fix EVERY-F'N-THING In No Time!

Hawkeye

 

[elkassassin]

You Forgot #51 efa that's Actually Your Personal # 1 Issue!

# 1, I Mean # 51 from efa:

Bring Back Baiting/Chumming!

I Don't Know If efa Has Cooled Off Since That Was Banned?

He Surely Finished A Few Deer Out With Apples That He Didn't Shoot!

They Couldn't of Made The Winter Without His Help!

 

[MrShane]

#1-Eliminate/control cheatgrass.
#2-Replace mycorrhizal fungus damaged or destroyed by cheatgrass to improve soil and to improve mineral and water intake of other plants.
#3-Plant herbs, native grasses, brush, forbs, etc. that are used as forage by wildlife, especially deer. (see #1/2)
#4-Determine causes of deer mortality (Already doing that per several studies)
#5-starvation (see #1/2/3)
#6-manutrition (see #1/2/3)
#7-8-desease-for healthier deer (see #1/2/3)-continue to monitor cases of CWD at weigh stations
#9-14-infections caused by cheatgrass seeds embedded in eyes, ears, nose, mouth, genitals & between hoofs-(see #1)
#15-21-roadkill-for a reduction in numbers of deer using salts on roads for mineral intake (see #2)-continue to install fences, escape ramps, overpasses, underpasses, deer crossing signs, roadside brush removal
#22-25-predation-reduce the number of vulnerable deer ie; healthier deer are usually not targeted by predators (see#1/2/3)-open season on cougars-bounty on coyotes (already in place)-professional shooters from choppers (need to do)
#26-27-winterkill-healthier deer have better fat ratios (see #1/2/3)-winter feeding, if neccessary, of pellets made of natural forage not hay
#28-30-accidents-healthier deer have fewer accidents ie; falls, caught in fences, broken bones (see #1/2/3)
#31-fawning-no AW hunts during rut so major fawning takes place at the same time-(see #32/33/34)
#32-33-migration-continue to capture and tag deer for studies in migration patterns including vaginal birth signal devices and tagging of neonates.
#34-higher percentage of buck hunts after rut, lower percentage before-no AW buck hunts during rut
#35-36-poaching-stiffer/automatic penalties for poaching big game.
#37-38-burning-cheatgrass is easily ignited and burns fast and too hot for sagebrush to survive well, so care must be taken by DWR, BLM, NFS while prescribe burning and the public must be careful to follow the daily fire restrictions or face serious fines.
#39-41-water-continue to construct and maintain guzzlers, catchments and wells as determined by the weather and location.
#42-46-private property-continue to recruit and establish CWMU's, landowner areas, walk-in-access areas, depredation hunts, extended archery areas
#47-continue to buy such private property which has deer habitat as it becomes available.
#48-continue to seek and accept donations, gifts and charitable contributions from the general public.
#49-continue with the wildlife license plate program
#50-continue the Dedicated Hunter program, the Hardware Ranch rides, the various slams and other sources of additional funding.

Note: None of the above is Social! It's biological and financial. And most of it, we're already doing.

Edited, And I could add lop & scatter, bullhog, chaining, herbicides, arial seeding, classifying and who knows what else to my list.

You forgot to add Bears to your Open Season/Bounty list along with Cougars and Coyotes.

 

[Hawkeye]

So?

The Less Deer We have The Harder You Want To Hunt Them?

I Do Believe We've Been Doing That For Many Decades As Well!

How's That Panning Out For You hawky Just About Now & For Several Years?

When Somebody Gets Serious!

We'll Start Doing Something To Increase Deer Numbers!

But Until Then:

Keep Shootin Your Does!

Keep Shootin 2 Points!

That Should Fix EVERY-F'N-THING In No Time!

Elkster-

Just got the record, I have not shot a two point since I took my first buck in 1988. I’m still waiting to hear your plan to restore our deer herds besides “let’s cut tags!”

Hawkeye

 

[elkfromabove]

You forgot to add Bears to your Open Season/Bounty list along with Cougars and Coyotes.

I'm not sure about open seasons & bounties, per the houndsmen, but definitely more hunts, Thanks!

 

[elkassassin]

Hey hawky?

Me Mentioning Cutting 10 Tags Sure Did Hurt I Take It?

I Mentioned It & The DWR Had Already Cut Them 10 Tags!

You Still Have Never Ever Answered My Question:

Are You As Mad At The DWR For Cutting Them 10 Tags As You Are At Me For Mentioning It?

Evident-ally You've Forgot About HELL-F'N-RIGHT Already?

It's Not a FIX But It's A START!

Glad To Hear You're Not POUNDIN PISSCUTTERS hawky!

A Few Other Guys Have Mentioned Closing a Unit Or Two?

I Haven't Seen You Gnawing On Them?

Elkster-

Just got the record, I have not shot a two point since I took my first buck in 1988. I’m still waiting to hear your plan to restore our deer herds besides “let’s cut tags!”

Hawkeye

 

[elkfromabove]

It's Not a FIX But It's A START!

A START to what?

 

[Vanilla]

Evident-ally You've Forgot About HELL-F'N-RIGHT Already?

Because I’m bored…and because Whoopi cites this every time…here we go! And Whoopi, you better not puzz out and refuse to answer!

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trail riding going to increase the deer population?

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trespassing going to increase the deer population?

How is a $50k or $150k fine for poaching going to increase the deer population? Those poached deer are still dead. Are we assuming we are going to buy deer from a neighboring state with the fine revenue?

Baiting has now been banned for multiple years. Have the herds increased?

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trail wasting a deer legally shot going to increase the deer population? Isn’t that wasted deer still dead? Again, we purchasing replacements with the fine money?

You mentioned tag cuts multiple times in it to save declining herds. We’ve tried that dozens upon dozens of times over the last 50 years. Has it helped? Please answer that. Has cutting the tags from 250k to 80k helped increase the herd numbers?

You wanted to go back to recurved, Hawkens, and 4x scopes on rifles. Seems like you were the OG limit technology guy! Is this going to increase our deer herds? So bucks have fawns?

Trail cam bans happened. Are there more deer all the sudden?

How many drones have you shot down? How many more deer did that create?

I wore solids on a hunt recently and I’m wearing a red shirt as i type this. How many deer did I save?

Spotting scopes banned, that will increase fawn survival, I’m sure!

4 point or better units. The data on that really shows deer population numbers increasing! I mean, all those 2-3 points that will survive and do all the breeding after all the 4 points are killed…that will make you happy no doubt!

Despite what a certain outfitter thinks, flying planes for game is already illegal. How many deer did it create? I want the numbers Whoop!

Roads closed. Seems like a great idea. Except the only place you look for deer is on a road you drive. How you not going to see the deer you can’t see going forward?

Spotlighting is already illegal. How many more deer we got? And again, we buying more deer with that fine money collected?

I like deer fencing. That actually seems like it will work. 1 out of 50 ain’t bad…if you’re playing the lottery.

We’ll stop shooting cow elk, that ought to help the deer herds increase. In fact, that might be the golden ticket!

Stop managing tags for money only…except they keep cutting tags…so how can it be for money only when they are giving less? And again, with those tag cuts, how many more deer we got than they had in 1960 when they had 350% more tags? For money..,ha! WAFJ!

They already adjust management by year due to extreme weather. Look what happened this year. How many more deer you seeing than last year? It has to work! It’s on your fix it thread.

OIL limited entry tags. That will increase deer! No doubt.

Sound off Whoopi. I’m having a hard time making a nexus to deer numbers on 49 of the 50 suggestions. But I’m sure you can ‘splain it.

 

[Vanilla]

Where is @elkassassin with my answers?

All he does is yap about “Rememebr Hell-Right?”

Yet there is one thing in his 50 item list that even has to do with biological management of deer at all.

Whoopi, grow a set and answer my questions!

 

[JB1975]

Where is @elkassassin with my answers?

All he does is yap about “Rememebr Hell-Right?”

Yet there is one thing in his 50 item list that even has to do with biological management of deer at all.

Whoopi, grow a set and answer my questions!

He's out trying to get his scope off his muzzy to put it in the classifieds.

 

[elkassassin]

Because I’m bored…and because Whoopi cites this every time…here we go! And Whoopi, you better not puzz out and refuse to answer!

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trail riding going to increase the deer population?

We Could Use The Money Generated From All The LAW BREAKIN BITCHES BLAZIN Trails As They Damn Well Please To Help With The Mule Deer Herd Numbers!

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trespassing going to increase the deer population?

The Tresspassin Bitches Would Think Twice About Doing It Again & We Could Use That Money Towards Mule Deer Management!

How is a $50k or $150k fine for poaching going to increase the deer population? Those poached deer are still dead. Are we assuming we are going to buy deer from a neighboring state with the fine revenue?

We'd Make The POACHIN Bitches Think Twice About Ever Doing It Again & We Could Put That Money Toward Doing Smart Things Like Fencing More Roadways With That Money!

Baiting has now been banned for multiple years. Have the herds increased?

Don't Think For A Second Baiting Has Stopped!

Maybe Slowed But Not Stopped!

How is a $50k or $150k fine for off trail wasting a deer legally shot going to increase the deer population? Isn’t that wasted deer still dead? Again, we purchasing replacements with the fine money?

We're Gonna Maybe Start Doing Smart Things For Mule Deer Conservation With That Money!

You mentioned tag cuts multiple times in it to save declining herds. We’ve tried that dozens upon dozens of times over the last 50 years. Has it helped? Please answer that. Has cutting the tags from 250k to 80k helped increase the herd numbers?

Ya!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags On The Henry Mountains & You've BAWLED Ever Since When In Fact The DWR Had Already Cut 10 Tags,You've Never Once Answered The Question:ARE YOU AS MAD AT THE DWR FOR CUTTING THE 10 TAGS AS YOU ARE AT ME FOR MENTIONING IT?

You wanted to go back to recurved, Hawkens, and 4x scopes on rifles. Seems like you were the OG limit technology guy! Is this going to increase our deer herds? So bucks have fawns?

I Said It Long Before a Committee Was Formed!
Everybody BAWLED!

Trail cam bans happened. Are there more deer all the sudden?

I Mention That Long Before There Became A Season On Them!

How many drones have you shot down? How many more deer did that create?

I Caught A Guy This Year Running A Drone During Season!
Thanks To No Warden In The Area The Law Doesn't Mean Or Do SQUAT!

I wore solids on a hunt recently and I’m wearing a red shirt as i type this. How many deer did I save?

You Never Knew What A Red Flannel Shirt Was!

But OH GAWD Don't Take Nillers Favorite CAMO Loin Cloth!

Spotting scopes banned, that will increase fawn survival, I’m sure!

Part Of The TECHNOLOGY Isn't It?

4 point or better units. The data on that really shows deer population numbers increasing! I mean, all those 2-3 points that will survive and do all the breeding after all the 4 points are killed…that will make you happy no doubt!

Keep POUNDIN Your MOTL Buck If That Makes You Happy!

Despite what a certain outfitter thinks, flying planes for game is already illegal. How many deer did it create? I want the numbers Whoop!

Looks Like 2 Known Trophy Big Game Animals Got Smacked This Year With The BS That Goes On!
You Can Bet Your Ass there's been More Than 2!

Roads closed. Seems like a great idea. Except the only place you look for deer is on a road you drive. How you not going to see the deer you can’t see going forward?

I Guess You Don't Think There's Already Been Enough Illegal Trails Blazed By The LAW BREAKIN BITCHES?

Spotlighting is already illegal. How many more deer we got? And again, we buying more deer with that fine money collected?

You Probably Don't Have A Clue on The Spotlighting?
We'll Talk about That On The Ride!

I like deer fencing. That actually seems like it will work. 1 out of 50 ain’t bad…if you’re playing the lottery.

We Need way More Of it!

We’ll stop shooting cow elk, that ought to help the deer herds increase. In fact, that might be the golden ticket!

Ya,Shooting Cows in January,A TwoFur One Kinda Deal!

Stop managing tags for money only…except they keep cutting tags…so how can it be for money only when they are giving less? And again, with those tag cuts, how many more deer we got than they had in 1960 when they had 350% more tags? For money..,ha! WAFJ!

I Guess You Don't Know What Kinda Money Is Generated Off Tags?
SFW,HUNT-EXPO,Banquet Tags.Auction Tags,The List Goes On & On & We Need The Money Generated To Go For The Cause,The Whole Entirety Of It!

They already adjust management by year due to extreme weather. Look what happened this year. How many more deer you seeing than last year? It has to work! It’s on your fix it thread.

So Even Though You Admit Yourself There's Less Game This Year The Attitude Is:F'It I Wanna Hunt & I Don't Care What Kinda Shape The Herds Are In!

OIL limited entry tags. That will increase deer! No doubt.

We've Got So Many Continuous & Overlapped Hunts Now That Even The StickFlippers Are Getting Tired Of The BS!

A Muzz hunt That Overlaps In To An Archery Hunt Or Vice-Versa,Now Ain't That F'N Cool?

Sound off Whoopi. I’m having a hard time making a nexus to deer numbers on 49 of the 50 suggestions. But I’m sure you can ‘splain it.

I've SPLAINED It a Million F'N Times!

 

[elkassassin]

I've Still Got Every SmokePole I've Ever Bought!

No Matter The Change I've Got A SmokePole That'll Fit The Bill!

He's out trying to get his scope off his muzzy to put it in the classifieds.

 

[Vanilla]

So basically your plan is no plan at all. Just more managing people to try and build deer herds. Sound familiar??? You are basically the DWR. Congrats!

 

[elkassassin]

Notta The DWR!

I Take It DRATS Don't Need Managing Or Rules & Laws To Follow?

Don't Worry!

You'll Always Be Busy!

So basically your plan is no plan at all. Just more managing people to try and build deer herds. Sound familiar??? You are basically the DWR. Congrats!

 

[elkassassin]

Tell Ya What Niller!

Just Get It Opened Up For A FREE FOR ALL!

 

[elkhunter81]

Sounds just like what we have with SFW. More money= more animals. No offense but I think we should pass on HELL RIGHT

 

[elkfromabove]

We Could Use The Money Generated From All The LAW BREAKIN BITCHES BLAZIN Trails As They Damn Well Please To Help With The Mule Deer Herd Numbers!


The Tresspassin Bitches Would Think Twice About Doing It Again & We Could Use That Money Towards Mule Deer Management!

We'd Make The POACHIN Bitches Think Twice About Ever Doing It Again & We Could Put That Money Toward Doing Smart Things Like Fencing More Roadways With That Money!


Don't Think For A Second Baiting Has Stopped!

Maybe Slowed But Not Stopped!



We're Gonna Maybe Start Doing Smart Things For Mule Deer Conservation With That Money!



Ya!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags On The Henry Mountains & You've BAWLED Ever Since When In Fact The DWR Had Already Cut 10 Tags,You've Never Once Answered The Question:ARE YOU AS MAD AT THE DWR FOR CUTTING THE 10 TAGS AS YOU ARE AT ME FOR MENTIONING IT?

I Said It Long Before a Committee Was Formed!
Everybody BAWLED!



I Mention That Long Before There Became A Season On Them!


I Caught A Guy This Year Running A Drone During Season!
Thanks To No Warden In The Area The Law Doesn't Mean Or Do SQUAT!


You Never Knew What A Red Flannel Shirt Was!

But OH GAWD Don't Take Nillers Favorite CAMO Loin Cloth!


Part Of The TECHNOLOGY Isn't It?


Keep POUNDIN Your MOTL Buck If That Makes You Happy!


Looks Like 2 Known Trophy Big Game Animals Got Smacked This Year With The BS That Goes On!
You Can Bet Your Ass there's been More Than 2!


I Guess You Don't Think There's Already Been Enough Illegal Trails Blazed By The LAW BREAKIN BITCHES?

You Probably Don't Have A Clue on The Spotlighting?
We'll Talk about That On The Ride!



We Need way More Of it!


Ya,Shooting Cows in January,A TwoFur One Kinda Deal!


I Guess You Don't Know What Kinda Money Is Generated Off Tags?
SFW,HUNT-EXPO,Banquet Tags.Auction Tags,The List Goes On & On & We Need The Money Generated To Go For The Cause,The Whole Entirety Of It!

So Even Though You Admit Yourself There's Less Game This Year The Attitude Is:F'It I Wanna Hunt & I Don't Care What Kinda Shape The Herds Are In!

We've Got So Many Continuous & Overlapped Hunts Now That Even The StickFlippers Are Getting Tired Of The BS!

A Muzz hunt That Overlaps In To An Archery Hunt Or Vice-Versa,Now Ain't That F'N Cool?

I've SPLAINED It a Million F'N Times!

1-Thanks for answering my question in post 30. Now we all know where you are going with your list.
2-I also like that you are saying we need more money to do what I have on my list, most of which they are already doing and have the money to do more, via the EXPO tags, the Pittman-Robertson Act, and the DWR Habitat Council.
3-And I also like that you revealed your true motives for your list by not mentioning them!

So, you're willing and anxious to Californicate Utah wildlife laws primarily for the fines? Good luck with that project! I'm quite sure they have NO CHANCE of being passed by the RAC's, Wildlife Board, the DWR, Utah State legislature or the Utah State Courts and there's not an official or judge in this state that would fine a person $50,000 to $150,000 for those actions you have listed. However, what they can do is revoke your hunting licenses and privileges in 48 states for a period of time. Which brings us back to your true motives., ie; Less competition for trophy tags and fewer trophies taken during General seasons. Those are elites' goals, but if nothing is done about cheatgrass, regardless of the funding sources, you may reach them