AZ G&F-Cabelas Lawsuit

BigFin

BigFin

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-08 AT 10:15PM (MST)[p]Most of you know Cabela's has been granted a special hearing by AZ G&F to accept the applications that arrived after the deer and elk deadline (see the other threads on this topic). The hearing will be Friday morning. When a similar thing happened to me many years ago, they told me "Too bad."

I just got off the phone with my attorney. He is going to get a letter faxed and overnighted to AZ G&F to tell them of my intent to file a lawsuit, if they accept the Cabela's applications that arrived after the deadline.

The attorney stated that if any of you are interested in joining this suit, please provide the following:

>Full name
>Address
>Phone number
>Statement that "I want to be a party to action against the Arizona Game and Fish Commission related to allowing late applications in the 2008 elk and antelope draw."

PLEASE DO NOT provide any social security numbers or other personal information.

Please email to [email protected].

I promise this is not some sleezy attorney advertising scam.

I am paying all the legal fees, but your joining this suit would be very helpful.

Not having time to fully research the topic and applicable laws and statutes, the attorney is not sure what grounds will be used if the G&F commission changes the rules for this case. Since the commission meeting is Friday morning, the letter must be sent tomorrow.

If you are interested in being a party to this action, please email your information to the above email.

Thanks in advance for any guys wanting to put their actions where their mouth is.

Happy Hunting and good luck in the draws.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Cabels' did not get their apps deliverd before the deadline, as outlined in the regs. They are now requesting a special exception for thier clients.

The commission will meet Friday morning to decide.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Wow! The internet works fast. Thanks to you guys who have already responded and emailed with your information.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
I wish you luck! Its flat out wrong to bend the rules for a big company.
ismith

45f82e4d30de4f30.jpg
 
A bunch of guys on my other site are thinking the commissioners will all fold for Cabelas. I sent my info to Randy. At the very least the details will see the light of day with a lawsuit and at best we will force the commission to follow their own rules. How would they have treated a smaller outfitter or tag service where the dollars were not high? You can bet the court will see the disparity in judgement and rule against them. Thanks and I am going to try to get out of the shop for the meeting tomorrow. Hope we can get a big turnout. G&F may end up getting sued by the very people who do all their volunteer work and help to keep the politicians from raiding their budget every year. Crazy situation.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-08 AT 07:10AM (MST)[p]What about an e-mail blitz to Cabelas telling them they will loose customers if they press on versus doing the right thing?

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...s_home/tag_hints.jsp?cm_re=store*leftnav*tags

This is a summary of the e-mail sent to Cabelas:

Can you clarify if you will be taking legal action against the State of Arizona if your applications are rejected for being late? If your company failed to comply with the known rules, it is not the fault of Arizona. As a long time customer, I will be taking my business elsewhere and closing my Cableas Visa card if your company fails to do the right thing and costs the State of Arizona taxpayer money to defend your mistake. There is a growing wave of discontent against Cabelas in the hunting community over this issue and asure you I am not alone in this opinion.
 
Actually I did that first. I told my wife that we spent over $30000 there with my old business and this one. I told her if the ruling went for Cabelas I would never spend another nickel there. She said "why would you support them regardless of the ruling since they already threatened court action and are going to delay the draw?" Smart woman. I am done with Cabelas period.
 
I also emailed Cabelas to let them know that i will not be spend a penny if they file a lawsuit. In my email i stated that i feel that they do not bend the rules when it comes to sales and coupons. I was one day late in using a 20 off your next 100 dollar order. I was told no, rules are rules. So why do they the feel that AZ should bend the rules.
 
Seems to me your jumping the gun a little. Cabelas missed the deadline so they are going through the process to see if they can get the applications accepted. Isn't that exactly what you wanted yourself?

You want them to rule against Cabelas because they ruled against you and your trying to affect the ruleing before the hearing even takes place.

I say you stay out of the whole affair. If they rule for Cabelas and you still feel you got the shaft then file your suit.
 
A rule is a rule! If you can't get your application in, or someone for you can't, in the allotted two months or whatever it is then it should not be accepted.

I'm just a few hours late to the funeral, i'm just a few hours late to court, im just a few hours late at the stop light. Get it!, it doesn't work.

I wish some babies would just admit they missed the deadline instead of taking it to court. Whats the point of a law if everything these days is taken to court. Rules and regulations are for usage, not just a disclaimer.
 
>do you work for cabelas or
>are you stupid. What process.
>They missed the deadline. I
>do not see in the
>regs that their is a
>process for missing the deadline.
>


Neither.

Cabelas is working with the AZ G&F to see IF there is anything they can do to correct their error. Big Fin clearly wants to affect that meeting. He wants the AZ G&F to rule against Cabelas. He wants to get involved in something that isn't any of his business.

Just think of all the #itching and moaning that would be going on if Cabelas had done to Bigfin what he is doing to Cabelas.

Also, just because one is rational and can think through a subject doesn't mean he works for Cabelas it also doesn't mean they are stupid. On the other hand, Implying someone is stupid because they don't? agree with your opinion is stupid.
 
"He wants to get involved in something that isn't any of his business."

Are you serious? How the hell is it none of his business? It is the business of every person who has ever applied for a tag in AZ.











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
HunterEd:

I respect your opinion, but as someone who participates in many commission meetings, this is not out of the normal course of business and communication.

To say this is just between Cabela's and the G&F commission seems to be a narrow view of the "interested parties" that will be affected by the outcome.

As someone who applies in many states, and is subject to these rules and deadlines, I am appalled that a special meeting is even being granted. If I miss the deadline next year, will they grant a special meeting for me? Or for any other person, who thought they complied, but did not?

It is usually easier for an agency to make a decision if they know where all interested parties stand. I am confident they will make the proper and legal decision, but I feel it is worthwhile to inform the of the many other hunters who are "interested parties" affected by any decision that would disregard the deadline, and what those affected hunters will do, if the law is not followed.

I hope you draw the tags you are looking for.

Thanks to the many guys who have emailed their support for this. The letter is going out this afternoon, via FedEX (not UPS) and will be faxed to the commission today.

Happy Hunting!

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
The hell it is.


It only become's other peoples business IF the AZ F&G does allow the applications to be accepted. Right now it is between Cabelas and the AZ F&G. Just like last year it was between Bigfin and AZ F&G.
 
Huntered,

If it is nobody's business besides Cabela's and G&F then why are you here commenting? If it is nobody's business what is happening, then this thread is none of your business.











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
If you feel comfortable doing to Cabelas what you would have been pissed about if Cabelas had done to you,then fine, but when the Anti's or someone else trys to affect your getting a fair hearing by threatening to sue the AZ F&G don't come crying for help.

That is hypocrisy.

For what it is worth, I didn't apply to hunt in AZ and don't have a dog in this fight. I just hate hypocrisy in all it's forms.
 
I am commenting on a forum topic. not getting involved in the G&F, Cabelas, or Big Fins businees.

There is a diffence between commenting on a forum and getting involved in someone else business.
 
Huntered-

I think we are talking about general fairness in this case.

Showing the same respect and fairness to all.

As a person who had my deer application rejected in the past, and begged them to accept it. I only wanted a point at that time. I think the majority just want them to do to Cabelas what they would do to me or you or anyone else.

In this case, AZG&F has acted correctly so far. I think giving them a hearing is an attempt not to go to court. Not going to court would save time and money for all.

However, if they allow these, then in the sake of fairness, how do you treat others who were rejected this year, or in years past?


I personally think this is a good topic and anyone who is a part of the application process is part of this business.
 
I agree.

That is why I say if they allow the applications to go forward a suit would be in order.

Big Fin is alerting them ahead of time. His approach may well be the approach that is better for AZ F&G in the long run.
 
Ted-you are wrong IMO. We are all interested parties in this decision. Cabelas is basing the appeal on the rule that if your application agent is not in the wrong but the delivery service screwed up then the application should be accepted. For all of us commoners if we paid UPS for next day delivery of our application and got it to them the day prior to the deadline but UPS delivered a day late would we be allowed to enter? Also Cabelas sent the apps to the old address which means they did make the error. There is no lawsuit at this time just a letter threatening one to make sure the commissioners stick to the law and leave money and politics out of the decision. After living through the spineless commission actions regarding USO I can't believe you think we should all just keep our nose out hoping they will do the right thing. Screw me once shame on you--screw me twice shame on me.
 
Hunter ted bundy. I am not Implying that you are stupid. I ask a question if you are stupid. If i was implying that you are stupid i would have stated that you are stupid. I ask because of your stupid statement. "Cabelas is going through the process." I did not know that Game and Fish had a process for missing the deadline.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-08 AT 12:37PM (MST)[p]The hearing is between Cabelas and AZ F&G. I wouldn't want Cabelas getting involved in my hearing, if I had one. Does the general public have a interest? Yes, but only if the AZ F&G give's in to Cabelas.

To be clear I don't think Cabelas applications should be accepted. I do think they should get a fair hearing. Just like BigFin should have gotten a fair hearing last year.

I'm not familiar with the USO issue so my perspective is differnt. I haven't been screwed yet.
 
I just heard from a very reputable guy that the AZ G&F Dept. is recommending to the Commission that they DENY Cabelas request!

Commission usually, but not always follows the recommendations.

Hope they do on this one. Guess we'll see tomorrow.

I hope the Commission digs in their heels and tells them what they tell all of us, get it in on time, get it right or pay the consequences!

Don Martin
 
can anyone post a press article on this? so far all i'm hearing is hearsay, I would like to read some facts about the issues. does anyone have a link to a AP or local press or news release on this?

Thanks,
 
Why isn't the hearing between UPS and the Game and Fish. if any lawsuits are filed it should be against UPS, I think. Cabelas should have had their act together in the first place.

Procrastination is like masturbation, your only screwing yourself in the end!
 
T,
Go to AZGFD website and look at their meeting agenda. The press will not report on this, afterall, it isn't about doom and gloom. Unless of course you used Cabela's service to apply for AZ.











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I sure hope AZG&F denies this request. It just plain sucks for the TAGS clients, but deadlines are deadlines.

Reminds me of paying taxes. You can have a CPA or preparer do them, but when they are submitted with your signature, you are taking full responsibility for the contents.

In my opinion, if AZ lets these applications in, they are opening the doors to many, many, lawsuits from guys who lost out in the past. This could be very expensive decision for AZ. I hope they get it right.

Good luck to the guys who did it right and did it early.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-08 AT 03:11PM (MST)[p]"Hunterted said" I agree.
That is why I say if they allow the applications to go forward a suit would be in order.

Big Fin is alerting them ahead of time. His approach may well be the approach that is better for AZ F&G in the long run.



If we all sat here and not voice our opinons now before the hearing, letting Cabelas and AZGF know of our oppossing this, then the only resort is a law suit. Isn't it better to be proactive than reactive? Why wait and cause the draw to be delayed, etc, tax payer's money wasted on another senseless lawsuit. As my Mom would say "it's better to nip it in the bud".


Thanks again for letting me vent.


Joe
 
Here is my response from Cabelas




March 13, 2008



Dear Mr. Baryenbruch;



Thank you for your recent correspondence.



A lot of misinformation and rumors are going around about Cabela?s T.A.G.S. program and late Arizona elk and antelope hunting applications. We are currently working through a well-defined administrative process with the Arizona Game and Fish Department, a process open to any hunting license applicant or any other customer of the game and fish department.



Despite rumors you may have heard or read, Cabela?s has never implied, discussed or threatened any lawsuit against the State of Arizona or the Arizona Fish and Game Department. We absolutely do not intend to pursue a lawsuit against the department no matter their decision. Cabela?s considers the Arizona Fish and Game Department, and all state fish and game departments, partners and co-supporters of all the outdoor sports we all hold dear.



We are simply representing hunters, who through no fault of their own, stand to miss out on a chance to participate in the Arizona draw. And, further to that point, we are asking not only on behalf of T.A.G.S. customers, but on behalf of all men, women and youth hunters whose applications may have been similarly delayed by unforeseen circumstances as permitted by Arizona statute. These hunters are not just customers of Cabela?s, but customers of Arizona Fish and Game Department. We believe their case should be heard.



With full faith in the administrative process, Cabela?s will abide by and respect the decision of the Arizona Wildlife Commission and the Arizona Game and Fish Department.



Thank you for contacting us and I hope this helps clarify the matter.
 
Interesting. From what I have read, there is not a process to hear any case of any late applicants. They just get told no. I emailed Cabela's yesterday about it and still have not heard anything.













It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Bogey:

Thanks for sharing the Cabela's response.

I don't think anyone ever said, or thought, Cabela's had sued AZ G&F. They are following a process. The hunters who are concerned about the outcome of tomorrow's hearing are also following a process.

If I was in Cabela's shoes, I would have asked for a hearing also. They are doing what they should for their clients, but the responsibility falls on their doorstep, as they were paid to perform a service, which they failed to deliver. It is that simple. As a business, they are trying all avenues to make up for their mistake.

Unfortunately for many, this same thing has happened in the past, or some variation of this has happened. No special hearings were granted, nor should a special hearing been granted for any of us, or for Cabela's. And, none of the folks who had similar experiences in the past were granted any waiver or exception, and none should be granted in this case.

The point of all this effort is for Cabela's to explore all avenues available. And, for hunters who met the deadlines and complied with the requirements, to explain to AZ G&F their position about this incident.

It is nothing personal against Cabela's. I was, and will continue to be a really good Cabela's customer.

We, as hunters, are merely expressing public input, as interested parties, in a manner that is appropriate and hopefully effective.

I have full confidence that AZ G&F will make the correct decision tomorrow morning and we will all go about our business and the draw will be completed in a timely and fair fashion.

I think it is always useful for agencies to know what their constituencies are thinking. Through the letters and comments, they now know what the opinions are.

For all of you who responded to my request, and there are many of you, I thank you dearly. The letter has been faxed and confirmation of receipt has been provided by the Director's office.

Happy Hunting and may your mailboxes be filled with tags!

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
So is the AZFG going to grant everyone who misses the deadline this year a hearing? What about last year and Next year???

Why did Cabelas wait until the last minute??? GREED plain and simple. So are we going to reward there greed is the question????????

Cabelas argument is weak at best. I was told that the AZFG has recommended against accepting the application as well. We will see how it plays out but I would hope that they are treated like ever other late app.........which means they have to purchase the hunting license and don't get a point for this years elk and antelope app.
 
It's gonna be really interesting for sure.

I only put in for a bonus point this year for elk and antelope and would like to now ammend my application and put in for the draw.

Can we work that into this someplace?

I didn't think so..........
 
Bogey-I got the same exact letter but I also got a second one with your name on it. I wrote Gregg back on that one and told him now I was sure he was the guy that messed up the mailing.
 
I have now received the same letter as well. If Cabela's truly accepts a no answer, and does not pursue the matter any further, they will have my support for a long time. But like I've mentioned before, if they even think about going to court, I will never give them another penny.














It's Bush's fault!!!
 
if the applicant's still get charged for the license, Cabela's should eat that and refund that amount to their customer.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-08
>AT 12:37?PM (MST)
>
>The hearing is between Cabelas and
>AZ F&G. I wouldn't want
>Cabelas getting involved in my
>hearing, if I had one.
>Does the general public have
>a interest? Yes, but only
>if the AZ F&G give's
>in to Cabelas.
>
>
Botom line, when i screwed up and was rejected, i didn't get a hearing.... Just getting a hearing is preferential treatment and dead wrong.
Any of you that ever screwed up an application get a personal meeting with the F&G ???? Not me
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-08
>AT 12:37 PM (MST)
>
>The hearing is between Cabelas and
>AZ F&G. I wouldn't want
>Cabelas getting involved in my
>hearing, if I had one.
>Does the general public have
>a interest? Yes, but only
>if the AZ F&G give's
>in to Cabelas.
>
>
Botom line, when i screwed up and was rejected, i didn't get a hearing.... Just getting a hearing is preferential treatment and dead wrong.
Any of you that ever screwed up an application get a personal meeting with the F&G ???? Not me
 
From Cabelas form letter:

"And, further to that point, we are asking not only on behalf of T.A.G.S. customers, but on behalf of all men, women and youth hunters whose applications may have been similarly delayed by unforeseen circumstances as permitted by Arizona statute."

There must be a little known Arizona statute concerning these matters? If there is, it's kept pretty secret!

Eel
 
For those of you argueing the point that this is none of our buisness and that we should not get involved, I completly disagree. If it truly were none of our business there would not be a "Public" hearing, and the commission would not be allowing "public" comments.

Not only is this our business, but the commission is ASKING US for our input!
 
Why doesn't anyone want to Boycott Arizona. Cabelas is doing what everyone else does when they mess up. Talk to the Fish and game and see if they will let you fix the problem. Anyone in the US can threaten a lawsuit and Arizona can say so what to whoever they want. If Arizona gives in you should be mad at Arizona not Cabelas.
 
You know, whether Cabela's T.A.G.S. program is successful in getting their mostly NR clients in the 2008 draw or not, what they are really trying to protect and obtain are the precious bonus points that would have been issued to their unsuccessful applicants. Think of how upset those clients are going to be when they lose a BP and have their loyalty BP strings clipped! OUCH!

I say so sad , so sorry, but at the end of the day there's no way these apps can be considered for the '08 draw...
 
If Cabelas gets special treatment and is allowed to enter their applications after the draw deadline is over, then I will give them special treatment by taking all my business elsewhere.

RockyMtnOyster
 
ok,
if you are a true az resident you will stand up on this one.we have till 11.30 fri to e-mail az game and fish to voice our displeasure in them even making a "special" hearing for this wouldyou or i get one if we were one minute late....um ...not!!!!
www.azgfd.gov once on the main page you can go to the toolbar on the left then click inside azgfd then on commision then commision members it will show their pictures and the have a contact link where you can e-mail them.(be tactfull and to the point)
and this is a real thing(see below) FROM THE AZ GAME AND FISH WEB PAGE:
March 12, 2008
A public meeting of the Arizona Game and Fish Commission will be held on March 14, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. as authorized by A.R.S. ? 17-201(D). Members of the Commission will attend either in person or by telephone conference call. The Commission will discuss and may vote to take action on the following matters:
March 14, 2008, Arizona Game and Fish Commission at the Arizona Game and Fish Department Headquarters, 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix Arizona 85086.
Meeting begins at 11:30 a.m.
1. Presenter: Harry Seck, Assistant Director, Special Services, Request by Cabela?s T.A.G.S. for a Hearing to Extend the 2008 Antelope and Elk Draw Deadline. Cabela?s T.A.G.S. is requesting a hearing before the Arizona Game and Fish Commission to request the 2008 Antelope and Elk draw deadline be extended to consider all applications received by the Commission, to date, where there is proof of mailing on or before February 11, 2008, or proof that the applications were sent via courier service guaranteeing delivery February 12, 2008 before 7:00 P.M. The Commission will vote to accept or deny Cabela?s T.A.G.S petition, which may require the Commission to change the hunt application deadline for the 2008 antelope and elk draw.
2. Call to the Public. Those persons wishing to speak should complete a speaker?s card and present it to the host. Unless prior approval has been granted by the Chairman, comments will be limited to no more than three minutes. No discussion or action will be taken by the Commission. Any items requiring further discussion or action will be included on a future Commission meeting agenda.
 
Since nobody has stated what has taken place and why all of this is going on I will assume that UPS did not deliver applications through Cabelas TAGS service by the AZ app deadline, right?

Thanks averagejoehunter for posting the commission agenda.

It's a shame somebody didnt do their job right and deliver the apps on time but it is no excuse to bend the rules!
Maybe folks that use these services might try doing it themselves next time and turn it early!!!!!!!
The whole thing is riduculous!!!

Jeff
 
Did you not read his first post??? He stated that he is sending a letter with the Intent to Sue IF they allow the applications to go forward. So what he said is no different then what you just said.
 
jeff,
i know. i do feel bad for the people who used the "tags" service but lets be real...if was me or you or whoever they would laugh in our face if we asked for a hearing??i guess someone at tags is claiming postmark well comeone dude its right in the regs and they should know this "postmarks don't count" also in the regs regaurding deadlines it says "drop boxes are locked promptly at 7:00 pm (mst)ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECIVED BY THE DEPARTMENT BEFORE THE DEADLINE" dog ate my app,sent it to old G&f address,my kid used mine for bottom wipe whatever, deadline is deadline.and i really hope they don't bend due to the $$$$$$ factor.i guess we will see.it just ticks me off that g&f is always trying to "fly under the radar"just like the late archery tags.i guess they figure if the masses don't find out it will be to late to do anything???
ajoe
 
gleninaz wrote

"Actually I did that first. I told my wife that we spent over $30000 there with my old business and this one. I told her if the ruling went for Cabelas I would never spend another nickel there. She said "why would you support them regardless of the ruling since they already threatened court action and are going to delay the draw?" Smart woman. I am done with Cabelas period."

Hear hear to that Glen.

Take your business back to the local shops where you get service and expertise. I can't stand to even go in our local store. I get more product knowledge at the swap meet. The accountants have taken over Cabelas and it is all about the money now. Monetize the brand for all it is worth for as long as they can. Service suffers. What a shame.

Wade
www.hardcoreoutdoor.com
 
Didn't catch an outcome yet. However, if they prevail the hate mail will be on its way. If Cabela's will try muscle its way through in AZ, they'll certainly try the same in any other state. Let's hope they lose. I missed an app deadline for sheep a couple years ago and sent it in anyway. They sent my check back uncashed. Rules are just that and a big corp shouldn't get a break anymore than the rest of us.
 
Its over and done with. Cabela's lost and they wont pursue any further action.











It's Bush's fault!!!
 

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