AZGFD needs your responses..............

B

Bura Nut

Guest
Would everyone take the time to respond to AZGFD and its opinion poll about the proposed new draws. www.azgfd.com/nrm/no_cap_comments.shtml

It is VERY important that the 90% recreational/10% commercial tag allotment get approved. This will satisfy the 9th circuit "Discrimination" issue along with protecting resident draw opportunities........


Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Allen,

Thanks, I filled it out and sent it. I am also going to put it on our website at www.seazsc.com as a link for people to fill out at their leisure.

Good post!

Greg

Nofear4
 
deffinetely fellas, if you cannot make it to a meeting and voice your opinion in person go to the website and let them know you support the 90/10 proposal! we've all put a lot of great effort e-mailing and calling the companies that sponsor USO, lets do the same here and let game and fish know we support this proposal and their efforts to help the resident hunters.
Mike
 
Allen, I didn't see anything restricting the survey to residents, so I filled it out. You know where I stand on this issue...

Venado muy grande!
 
This survey isnt limited to residents, so everyone post their feelings. p.s. the SE whitetail club website is nice.....I think you guys just signed up as an affiliate with ADA....keep up the great work everyone......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Does AZ maintain individual records of by hunter of their annual report? I know they get the gross numbers, hunters, kills, unsuccessful... but do they maintain individual person records of hunt reporting and if so is it subject to FOIA.

If either they don't have the records OR if they do but don't provide information on individual hunters to the public, how would USO ever know that you did or did not hunt? I'd bet that the POA signed would not suffice to gain your records even if they are available. Anyhow, I'd be paying the $3 and hunting unless the state says, we make your results availble to anyone upon request.
 
I did mine.

I could only dream that the Colorado Div of Wildlife would care about what Resident hunters want for the state. They treat us like we're a pest trying to interfere with their money making
 
ALLEN;
I submitted my opinion, but you may yell at me. I did not vote yes for the 90% recreational-10% commercial because it could prove to be very unfair to non-residents. The way it is written in the poll, there is a possibilty that 99% of the tags could go to residents and only 1% to NR. I voted for doing away with the commercial aspect of game animals and the resident gets 90% of all tags and 10% goes to non-residents. I feel that this is more fair to all and it will nullify USO's lawsuit and allow states to manage their game laws without outside interference.

RELH
 
I'm not sure about the comm./rec. deal???
What happens if average "Blue Coller" Joe Res. kills a world record, or a huge head. He can't sell his story. Five years from now he can't work anymore & needs money, Can't sell the head, or Replecas???????
I'd like to see more details, does'nt seem American.
Also does it open up the door for "Outfitter/Landowner Tags like NM., WY. & others.
DH
 
Filled out and submitted with lotsa comments. I enjoyed the conversation this morning with you, Allen. Have a good hunt for speed goats in NM.

Doug/RedRabbit
 
I checked the boxes for the 90/10. Lets get this done!!! See ya at the meetings.
 
ps. I have no idea of who to write in the NDOW department with this same idea, or just to voice my opinion to them about this idea. If anyone has as address or someone to email i will send them the same suggestion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-04 AT 07:36PM (MST)[p]I voted for the 90/10 commercial/noncommercial, but I'll betya a case of Heiny it gets thrown out like road kill.

I also voted NO to all fee increases. We spend all day on here ragging USO for greed and 50% of solutions we can come up with is to raise the fees? That's embarrassing.

I voted to keep the internet apps but charge up front. Convienence is no excuse for not drawing a tag. Hike up your skirts and quit whinning.

What really gets me to laughing is the idea to give 10% of the tags to the NR's in a seperate draw? DUH, how about if they did taht 10 years ago and we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with? The judge already ruled NO CAPS, can you not read? It's too late for that crap now.

Are only recourse, if you choose to read the judgment written by the ruling judge, is the bonus point route. Give as many BP's out as possible but make the requirments for them highly advantagous to residents, ie "I'll work for BP's"
 
Yeah, I like the bonus point idea too. That way residents have opportunities to aquire them easier than NR's. Therefore, maybe tipping the scales when it comes to the draw. Plus we all become more proactive in helping wildlife and the sports we love.

One of the suggestions I made to the commission in the opinion survey was to offer a special license plate that supports the AZGF department. This plate would aquire you a bonus point for as long as you owned it, (one plate per hunter) and would be available to AZ residents since we have to register our vehicles in the state anyway.

Regards,
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
The words "up to a 10% cap" would be eliminated and replaced with "Nonresidents SHALL receive 10% of permit allotments, in described units, for deer units north of the Colorado River and elk hunts". There, no "cap".
 
I filled mine out too. I agreed with most of the stuff presented. I do not agree with making people pay up front for tags. I feel this will have little impact on out of state hunters (especially USO clients), and will mostly affect residents. People (residents) have told me that it will weed out the "not so serious" hunters and inprove their chances. If they want to present that argument, that's fine, but don't present it as a part of the USO solution, if its a separate issue. We are constantly saying we need to get more people involved in hunting, and now we are trying to find ways to exclude people (based on income). Who decides who's "serious" enough to hunt? Maybe we should have physical agility testing also... and a practical weapons test..orienteering tests.. you know.. so people won't apply, unlessthey are "serious".

Sorry for the rant, that one bugs me ;-)

Marshall




www.parchedmuskrat.com
 
Couple questions:

1. Wouldn't requiring nonresidents to pay the full tag amount up front just load USO's pockets with a lot of extra cash? I thought when one of their rich folks participate in that service, USO banks all the money and accrues interest between draws.

2. I'm really questioning this bizarre commercial tag idea. So the folks with the 90% "recreational" tags can shoot a 350 bull but can't sell the antlers in-state? Can he drive over the state line and sell them? If not, who would know the difference between racks?
 
Zim-If USO gets $1000 from you for a tag and can apply in AZ for $5 then they are banking more dollars with interest vs the state getting the money up front and the state earning the interest for a few months. If all states did this it would definitely have a major impact on Taulman's cash flow.
 
glen, Neither you nor your buds at USO get any of my money because I apply for myself and I don't use outfitters. If someone uses USO's service, I can't believe they would have to front money if that state only requires $5 or $10 to apply. Surely they just collect the entry fee plus whatever they charge per application. I don't know because I don't use them.

Somejacka$$ - What are you trying to do, get another thread fried?
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-04 AT 06:20PM (MST)[p]It was your "humping buffalo" comment that got the other thread pulled.

Typical liberal, trying to blame someone else for their problems.

Sad really.
 
Somejacka$$, I can't help what I saw on the video. It was for real! Buy one and you will see.

"Typical liberal, trying to blame someone else for their problems."

I have absolutely no "problem". What is this "problem"? I don't worry about USO and AZF&G and the judge. Whatever they decide is fine with me. Cancer and heart attacks are serious, not some silly lawsuit. Those things happen every day.

I have never voted Democratic in my entire life for any candidate anywhere. Straight Republican.

If you don't have anything positive to say about someone, you should not say anything, rather than crashing their threads. As long as you continue to post uninvited, I will continue to spread the word about your Boy George loving. Everyone, Somejacka$$ (his real handle) is the most pro-USO hunter I have ever run into online. I don't know why he flip flops so much. Makes me wonder if he is in fact a part-time guide for USO.
 
Okay guys help me out...I must be a little slow. If I translate the proposal correctly then the only way a NR can hunt AZ is to go through a guide and pay ungodly for the tag. Please clarify.

I have 9 nonresident bonus points, meaning I have faithfully donated my $115+/- every year for 9 years (knowing that it would likely take 10-15 years to draw) just to have you tell me the rules are changing and I will have no chance to draw. I call BS. Lets not punish all NRs just because Taulman is trying to get rich. This proposal will make more money for USO because NRs will be required to buy the tag from them and not all NRs are as aware of the BS USO has just pulled. They just see them on OLN and the Outdoor Channel.

I do like several of the other proposals:

Loyalty bonus
Pay upfront
Conservation point
require purchase of license to apply

Denny
 
Many of the before mentioned proposals will fall into USO'S plans to secure more of the pie. Please be very careful about supporting ideas without giving alot of careful thought to what your doing. Old George is going to win again! Every time we place a restriction on a average Joe, he(George)wins! Don't punish non-residents to get even with USO!!!

Hey, how about we go for a do over here in Utah. Wipe out all bonus points for non-residents. Start em over! Sounds fair to me. LOL!!!
 
I am good with the do over in Utah. I am down to one bonus point for speed goats.

I was very careful and long winded on my survey.
 
pruney, nobody said anything about NR having to hunt with a guide. i have explained this option in other threads. it all has to do with the sale of antlers and hides. they have to call it "commercial" for legal reasons. it has nothing to do with guides. shmalts, again, this has nothing to do with guides or guide pools. its whether or not you can sell or not seel the hides or horns....period. that is the basis of the lawsuit filed by USO against az. if they ban the sale of hides horns (which is what they would be doing on 90% of the hunts) they have no leg to stand on. i hope this thing doesnt get shot down due to misinformed hunters voting it down. again, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GUIDES OR COMMERCIALIZING HUNTING. its basically a loophole that has been found. think of it this way, right now all hunting in arizona is "commercial" hunting becase you can make money off the hunt (video tape it, sell the hide, sell the mount, etc) and as long as all hunts are "commercial" then USOs lawsuit stands. the only way to get the favor back to residents is by making some or all of the hunts "noncommercial". this will be hard to regulate and thats fine, G&F arent doing this to really bust people if they happen to sell a story to a magazine, they are doing it to get the favor back in residents hands. if you all think a couple of extra bonus points are going to put residents in favor your incorrect. it will have VERY LITTLE impact in a totally open draw. i encourage all of you to go to the meetings this week at game and fish offices and get the details of these proposals because as it is so many of you are seeing the word "commercial" and voting against it!
mike medley
 
Mike,

It may go down due to misinformed hunters, because the page on the linked website does not spell it out. As someone trying to make an informed vote, no offense, but I am not going to take the word of a MM post to form my opinion. I want it in black and white on the AZGFD site. Is it available?

Secondly, by allowing residents and nonresident in the commercial pool, AZGFD is just finding another way to say "up to 10%". That is the wording that started this whole thing. I do not like or agree with USOs crap, but I also don't like using a loophole to fix it. Loopholes get closed. Find a real answer to the problem.

Denny
 
i think it does spell it out, its just that people dont understand the word "commercial". they see that and they get up in arms about "the commercialization of hunting" and strike it down. however, like i said all it is refering to is the sale of horns and hides. i went to the last G&F meeting and got the details, and in a thread below this with the heading "arizona commissioners....help" i outlined the whole proposal in great detail. it might seem a bit confusing but to put it in its simplest terms...
uso sued az because it wasnting giving NR a chance to sell the hides and horns taken on hunts. (this violates an obscure interstate commerce law) so it would stand to reason that if we just all together outlawed the sale of hides and horns (another option they are looking at) USO wouldnt have anything to complain about?!? well, if they did that the judge might have a problem with it. so they are saying that 10% of the hunts will be "commercial" (dont be scared by that word) and open to everyone equaly. you will have the same chance as a NR BUT, the other 90% of the hunts will be "noncommercial" (the opposite of what they are NOW) and will be open ONLY TO RESIDENTS. NOW only those hunts in the 10% will be subject to the judges order. if you dont want to take someone's word for it on this website, and its NOT clearly stated on the G&F website, and your not going to go to a meeting to find out more, then dont vote or give your input, becasue if you dont have the information you want, your making a missinformed vote. this could be (and in my opinion IS) the best option offered, but people making missinformed desicions (being scared by the word "commercial") and voting against it, and then we are as residents will be stuck in an open pool with NR and all we have to help us is a bonus point or two!
 
Pruney, what is wrong with loopholes?????????????? USO used one to win this judgement initially. I hope they find 20 more loopholes and shut is arse down and out of AZ. If all other non-residents fall under the wheels of the bus then so be it. You can look to George and USO and ask him what the #@LL he was thinking.
 
One thing you might consider when taking the poll and taking a stand on how you personally want the AZF&G stategy to go. Understand that many other states, including presently Nevada and Montana, are openly looking at how Arizona handles this situation, because they are highly likely to copy it. So if you hunt out of state at all you definitely should be careful what you wish for.
 
Are you getting scared? Scared that USO has not really helped you improve your odds at drawing a tag and maybe even caused a ripple effect that will lower your odds even further? You should be.
 
The commercial versus recreational tags has to do with the commerce clause and not to do with hiring a guide. Someone mentioned not relying on the internet then call AZGFD to confirm this. I know for alot of you this is only "AZ" and not your state. The end result of AZ will be the platform for many of the western states. (((ZIM: you are like a fortune teller, sometimes you are right and you gloat instead of doing anything positive to help the process.........)))) Nevada has rolled over to USO so be prepared........There is a meeting tonight in Mesa for public input, one thursday in Phoenix and a few others. GO TO THE MEETING IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS....... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
The G&F department will most likely weight the votes toward residents anyway. Non residents can't vote for governor of AZ either. I'm sure a simple computer cross check on licenses will be done and valid residents will be counted. I am going to the thursday meeting and will ask about the commercial meaning so non-res hunters will understand that it is not about restricting them any more than previous years, it is just about insuring that USO gets controlled and a long term fix that will hold up to the court is found. It may actually improve NR chances of being drawn.
 
Scared? You've got to be kidding. Cancer and heart attacks are things to be scared of, not some tag rules. But I am really curious from a legal standpoint. To me that is interesting.

From a personal standpoint (which I don't form my opinions from), I am kinda losing interest because I have too many bonus points (120) than I have time to hunt anyway. One tag a year somewhere is fine with me. For that, I am set for life already. If I had the same odds as residents I would get way more tags than I need. My thoughts are with Arizona resident hunters and hunters in all states. I hope the end result, whatever it is, will: 1.Allow resident hunters in all states some preference over nonresidents (maybe 3 times better odds) 2.Lead to preventing runaway train license and tag fees for anyone hunting out of their home state 3.Eliminate outfitter welfare tags completely

Many other states will be watching, and probably take the same approach, so I think this is a pretty important meeting. Hopefully there will be a quick equitable solution without the judge rejecting all the proposals.

If I could I would definitely be there, but distance prevents me, just like the permanent bonus point class deal. I would suggest some of you rational guys intercept Somejacka$$ at the door to prevent him from embarassing all hunters. Good luck and make a good showing.
 
Wow what happened to "It was your constitutional right". Zim you are still an idiot.
 
The Chase, Tell your parents you want them to take you to the meeting. Maybe you will learn something about your "constitutional rights". And leave your USO hat at home, idiot. :)
 

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