Backpack Hunting, Equipment, Techniques.

[DancingFool]

I'd like to concentrate my hunting with my son in areas where you have to or need to pack in. I've got a very strong back ground in campinging,survival, and both in good shape, but new to backpack/hunting. I'm not asking for areas, just on equipment and some advice as to what's the best and relitively safe way to pack in, harvest and get meat, rack back out for deer or elk. I know it's a lot to ask but I just want to look good to my son. I'd appreciate knowing how long or far we should plan to pack in? What's the best back pack for 7+ days packing? List of "Must Haves" in the pack? List of "would be nice" if you don't mind the weight. Any little secrets that you use or take with to make it a safe, fun, successful, experience for my son and I. I want to start getting ready now so we're prepared. I've really enjoyed reading your posts and hope to be able to ad to them in the near future, plus some pics. Matt

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 01:13PM (MST)[p]well far as areas go. do 10 or 111 thats all you can do is pack in. there are a few gides that will take you in and then come back and pick you up for a bow hunt in 10. get a good backpack, the badlands 4500 would be good for your 7+ day hunt. there are alot of trails in 10 to go in on and then of off the trail to hunt. I don't know what you hunt with but a good book to GET would be.

Backcountry bow hunting a guide to the wild side. By Cameron Hanes. that is the kind of hunting he does.

 

[DancingFool]

ELKOHUNTER, thankyou for response, advice and suggested reading material. I'll order it right away. I remember reading that it's a good idea to have a day pack in addition to the larger. I'd appreciate some references of some guides that will "pack" us in and then pack us out with mules/horse?
I read a few posts about some guides but it sure would be great to have some that just get you in and back out. Sorry to be a pest but: Are there any items you bring with that aren't in the books that you couldn't live without? Can you also recomend a top rated and reliable bow/sight combo for Mt. Hunting? I'm just now getting back into big game since the divorce,etc. I'm shooting a 7mm Weatherby Vanguard. Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 03:17?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 03:14?PM (MST)

here are some sites for packers. http://www.nhdo.com/prices.htm
http://www.secretpassoutfitters.com/Pack Trips.htm

Get that book as fast as you can it is so good!!! I have read mine 2 times already!!

far as the bow site I would go with a Spot-Hogg. the bow you would need to pick the price range etc. Right now I am shooting a Diamond Liberty, great bow it's not to much and it is not a cheep bow. far as gear here is a small list to get you started.

Cabela's Mil Spec 550 Para Cord
Boundary Waters Mummy Sleeping Bag
Under Armour HeatGear
Under Armour ColdGear
Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite Sleeping Pads
Cabela's MT050 Quiet Pack rain Jacket
Columbia Falmouth II Socks
Cabela's Outfitter's Fleece Jacket
Cabela's Alaskan Guide Series Headlamps or Petzl Tikka Plus LED Headlamp
Alaska Game Bags

Thats just some of the stuff I have.

you will learn lots from that book.
here is a site for that book
http://www.eastmans.com/cameron_booksbb.php

 

[1010Jake]

How old your son? Is he as pumped about packing in as your are? I hope so. If so you have a lot of options.

 

[DancingFool]

ELKHUNTER....wow, That exactly what I was looking for. There's so much new equipment out these days and very high tech. You guys on this sight know first hand what works and I appreciate your input. Bow=I know the Diomond line only from ads, good looking bow. I was going to find a archery club/shop here in Vegas to get fit for a bow and then start shoping. Does anyone know of a good bow store/club in Vegas? I used to shoot a recurve and am looking forward to getting a new compound.
I recognize some of the clothing, equipment you recomended...What about "Scent Blocking" clothing? Does it work? My brother in law swears by it for his Michigan deer hunts but I'm the eternal skeptic! Can this scent blocking gear work for a 5 to 10 day hunt, hiking, sweating, etc? It seems like a lot to ask of a garmet...especialy for this garlic eating Italian! LOL... Do you bring a tent/tarp of any kind?
Bow Sight? Arrows? Broadhead Deer/ELK? Once again, sorry for being a pita but thank you very much. You're helping the "Dad" look like he knows what he's doing.LOL
Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[DancingFool]

Jake, great question...my son is 18, big and strong but does lack a certian toughness/fortitude even though he is strong enough. He loves to hunt and I'm hoping the CHASE/HIKING/CAMPING can be ballanced to make sure he wants to come back. Your suggestions and opinion would be appreciated. It wouldn't be the first time that Dad has "pushed" him too hard and I don't want to repeat that experience for him. You have got me thinking...thanks.

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[3blade]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-08 AT 05:07AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-08 AT 05:06 AM (MST)

Vegas archery shops.

pacific sales off wynn and spring mtn, I think its wynn. All he carries is hoyt and mathews for the most part and he wants top dollar.

Bass pro has there own brand, parker, reflex, and I think diamond. I would double check on their website maybe before going down there. They'll have better prices on most everything compared to pacific sales. I do all do it yourself so the net and basspro work for me.

Theres another new shop off vegas and rampart somewhere, lancaster archery i think its called. He carries pse, pearson, and I think martin. I talked to him once but have not been to his shop.

One another note you can get some good deals off archerytalk.com for used bows. Might be something to check out.

I think scent lock clothing is a waste of money.

spott hogg makes a top notch site.

You can pm me if you need more details and I'd be happy to talk to you by phone.

 

[DancingFool]

3BLADE, I'll probably just go over to Bass, plus they have the range...wonder if they let you try some bows? I'll PM you and arrange for a call. I've been looking at the Badlands 4500 that was suggested to me...looks like a great pack. Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[Hoghead]

If you want to use a tent for your shelter I use the North Face Vector 22 it's a 2 person but really is only good for 1. It's packs up really small and is light. Hope this helps.

 

[nvhunter_32]

As someone else brought up backpacking in is just as much hardwork as it is fun. If you push your son too hard on his first trip out it can be a disasterours experience and alot of kids i know have gone out once or twice, been pushed to hard, and now no longer want to go. To make sure this doesn't happen to your son i would start off slow. Prior to the hunt go backpacking as frequently as possible taking it easy. Maybe do a couple one nighters and once he's hooked start to stay out longer and backpack in farther. By the time your hunt comes around he'll have a pretty good idea of what to expect and it will be a much more enjoyable experience for him. Get him hooked and he'll never want to come down from the hills.

 

[timberline_shedfreak24]

Glad to see there is still someone willing to pack it in with home on their back!

Timberline

"Live for somethin' or die for nothin'"

 

[3blade]

>3BLADE, I'll probably just go over
>to Bass, plus they have
>the range...wonder if they let
>you try some bows? I'll
>PM you and arrange for
>a call. I've been looking
>at the Badlands 4500 that
>was suggested to me...looks like
>a great pack. Happy Hunting,
>Matt

Well, about 2 yrs or so ago I was in Bass and asked if I could try some bows before I buy to see if I liked any of them. The reply I got is you have to buy it first. I said you mean to tell me I have to buy it and if I don't like it walk right downstairs and return it? Then I said, you guys don't want to sell many bows do ya? I got this deer in the headlights look. Maybe they have changed the policy since then, who knows? I ended up buying a bow on closeout from huntersfriend.com. Thats an idea too so you might want to check them out, can't shoot first though.

 

[DancingFool]

You guys, I recognize most of the names that have replied from reading almost every post on here. There's been some great pictures and information. I hope to be able to ad to these posts some day soon about my Elk, Mule Deer, Ram, Antelope, Yote and Cat hunts. I promise pics/video and stories too of my son and me hunting ...of course depending on the "luck of the draw"...the dreaded Draw!
I appreciate your advice about the equipment, Bass Pro, Outfitters, one I've allready called, book which I've ordered, boy have bows gone up in price! My first bow was a bear 45lb recurve. The most important issues has been the advice about how to approach backpack huning with my son.
I have to do some braging. Weatherby just released the results of thier "Dream Hunt Contest" and I took 3rd place! I wrote about a Dearm Pack Hunt trip in Co. or NM with my son. I won a signed copy of "The man, The Gun, the Legend" about Weatherby and a Mark XXII, .17 HMR! Great book so far and It's a beautiful rifle. Haven't gotten it yet, just saw pics. Please feel free to offer any more advice, books, equipment you take with you early bow and/or late Rifle. You all have been great. Hope to see you "at the top" some day...I'm going bow shoping next week. I'll let you know what I got.

 

[fatrooster]

Not only do you want Cameron Hanes book (which is a favorite of mine) but you also want David Longs book "Public Land Mulies" also available from Eastmans or from this site.
I feel that proper clothing on a high country back pack hunt is not nearly stressed enough. In my opinion proper clothing is one of the most important safety factors when hiking and hunting. Your gonna sweat when hiking and your gonna run into foul weather. You've got to stay dry and only clothes that wick moisture and dry quickly will work. And you have to be ready for rain, snow, cold and hot temperatures on any hunt. Any variance can take place on an outing. At the same time you do not want to pack too many clothes. I now plan on taking the clothes on my back along with a change or two of underwear and socks. Something rainproof and warm for an outer layer. Dress in layers.
Also, if I was tough enough to pack something that is not really needed then I would pack some candy and or gatorade to add extra flavor and as a special treat. It is very important to keep your spirits high and you'd be surprised how a special treat every night will lift your spirits. Dehydrated food gets old after awhile. Last year on a horseback trip I ran into some boy scouts that were on thier last night of a 100 mile hike. I gave them some Oreos, liceroice, and other sweets. They were SO happy to get something sweet and tasteful. They said it made thier whole trip.
Get into shape! Get into shape! Get into shape! Any real back pack hunting trip will have hard times when you push yourself and your son to the limit. Very important point here; Know when to say enough is enough. Take breaks to rest when needed. Be prepared to stay the night when you would rather get out off the mountain. Don't try to carry too much. Make several trips instead of trying to pack everything in one trip.
Everything I've mentioned are big common mistakes that I've made as well as most hikers and back pack hunters.
I hope all of this helps. fatrooster.

 

[DancingFool]

Fatrooster, thank you for hanging in there with me. As I mentioned before I've ordered C.Hanes book and can't wait to read it. I'll order Public Hunt Mulies today. I'm approaching this very systematically and am taking everything you all are saying very seriously.
I'm planning our 1st backpacking trip for my son and I into the Rubies as soon as it warms up and just do a scouting/hiking trip witht he GPS/Topo/Note Pad. There are some other areas that you all have suggested in past posts that I'm going to plan trips to even if we don't have a tag. I've got a lot to learn but plan on making it fun trips for the first few years. Your advice can't be more right on as far as "layering" and being prepared logistically and physically! I sweat a lot and it's a real concern. I've found some back packing sites about NV that offer some great advice about trail heads, Mt. Lakes, and lists of what to take...your suggestion to take some "treat" is a great one for the kid in all of us!
Have allready started pushups/squats/sit ups daily while the coffee is brewing and repeat mid day. I went bird hunting with a buddy in Pocatello ID a few years ago and we took the dogs to West Yellowstone. This guy Kicked my but climbing those mountains and I thought I was prepared. It took me 3 months for my legs to recover! LOL
Question: when you say "make several trips". You are taling about coming OFF the Mt??? if you've harvested game, right? 1/4 mile at a time? 1/2 Hr.at a time? Sorry for being pest.

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[fatrooster]

Your not a pest. When I say make several trips I mean pack out your camp and your game in more than one trip. Make a complete trip out with part of your animal another with more animal and then your camp. Only you can decide after experience how much to carry per trip.
Make frequent stops. My buddy and I found out that we make way better time when we walk casually and take frequent breaks. We used to hike until we were exhausted and then take a long break. Its no fun when your always gasping for breath and one of you are gonna be in better shape than the other and the weaker person is always pushed way harder. At the end of the day you are totally spent. When you walk at a casual walk and take breaks you can enjoy the scenery and look out for game and at the end of the day your tired but not worthlessly worn out.
If you feel yourself sweating then take the time to stop and take off your jacket or a layer of clothing. We all make the mistake of not wanting to take the time to stop and take off a layer and when you do finally stop your clothes are wet.
Another thing I do is pack in part of my camp one day and part of it another day. Some of the places I hunt have no water up high where I camp so I will pack water up there all summer long and make it a scouting trip. I will then use this as my main back country camp. This year I plan on venturing further from my main camp but I will have water in that camp to come back to. I also take in food and stash it. Sometimes I'll hang it in trees or stash it in my tent if I have it set up. Sometimes I'll take these supplies up the mountain with horses and sometimes I'll pack it depending on the severity of the trail.
I live in Elko and when you decide to hike the Rubies and come through town let me know and I'll try to meet you for lunch. If you've never eaten at the Star Resturant then you've gotta try it. fatrooster.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

you hit some points right on the head. There is no reason to push your self to the point that it is not fun, just take it easy. I know that there is no way that I could pack out my camp and game at the same time and will need to make two trips as well. That's another thing here in NV allot of the spots up high there is no water (it's there you just don't know were it is) and dehydrated meals take lots more water so you might what to use MREs but something that is way good and the weight is just as much is Heater Meals here is a link www.heatermeals.com now this is food. So there are lots of things that you can do you just need to see what works for you.

 

[COSA]

Another piece is to buy the best gear possible, the first time around. Otherwise yu'll have a garage full of packs/frames, bulky sleeping bags, heavy tents, stoves, cheap tripods, ect, ect like my garage and shed.

 

[DancingFool]

Fatrooster: Great Stuff! Packing supplies in a head of time is one of those "why didn't I think of that" ideas. We'll do that one for sure. Do you take a "Water Filtration" system with you anyways? All the other advice is noted as well...I'll make sure to take it nice and easy and take the time to keep layering as needed evenn though it's not my nature to "take it easy". Lunch is on me. I'm sure the place you mentioned has great food. Looking forward to talking to you. If you get down to Vegas, let me know.
I did a lot of riding when I was a kid and lived in Louisiana, barrel racing, working catle,branding, trial rides, etc. I miss riding so it would be great if you could suggest some outfits that have horse back hunting/pack trips/rentals etc. I spent a lot of time around horses/ranches and would like to meet some horse / ranch people.

ELKHUNTER: "Heater Meals" thanks, will look it up today. I read in some backpacking mags about how the pack foods have come a long way. Here's a question for everyone...MRE's or Freezedried? Pro's/Cons?

COSA: You're right on too. Would rather have best of next to best and be able to depend on it/hand it down/and just be confident in my equipment no matter what the sport. Being in the Mountians is nothing to fool around with so I'm not going to skimp and I live by the Boy Scout motto!
Thanks guys,




Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[fatrooster]

Dancinfool, your probably a better horseman than I am. I grew up in Florida but moved to Nevada in 1993. I started playing with horses around 1998. Never have gotten into the ropin' or rodeo side of it but I love horses just the same. Lookin' forward to lunch and BS'ing about deer. As far as the hydration filter goes, yes I do have a water filter pump and yes it is always in my pack.
Elkohunter, I will have to check out the heater meals. Thanks for mentioning them.
fatrooster.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

sure thing.

 

[Gator]

http://www.junglehammock.com/
Here something you might look at for weight factor.

 

[DancingFool]

Fatrooster: Ok, I'll "be prepared" as far as what I carry in my "Badlands 4500". I'm sure your horses and riding that you do are well suited for what you use them for. I read in other posts on hear about the horses having to get comfortable with a dead animal on it's back. I didn't know this was an issue but not surprised. I do know the importance of a good "trail/mountain horse. You're a lucky man to live up north and have your horses. Ok, so I'm going to either back pack or horse back in early to scout as well as place supplies.
Gator's suggestion....I'd like some imput about Gator's suggestion about using a "Hamock" where I'll be setting up camp in the mountians. Is there going to be trees close enough to utilize the hamock or is the bag/tent system most versable for the type of camping/hunting in "no mans land"?

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[1010Jake]

You have had several great suggestions. I have learned a lot myself. As Cosa said pack in and store a surplus of gear before the hunt. My best suggestion would be Eberlestock for a pack. http://www.eberlestock.com/index.html I have one myself. They are very versatile. You can go from a day pack to a pack in or out. I have used one to pack in, to hunt from, and to pack out with an animal. I would not suggest packing camp an animal out in the same trip, but if you need to you can. Take a water filter, and water tablets... Be patient and don't over work yourself. Most of all have fun.

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

do not buy one not that meny trees. if you what something like that buy a Bivy Sack from www.outdoorresearch.com

 

[DancingFool]

Elkohunter: I'm glad I asked because most of the pictures I've seen in this forum, I've not seen many "trees" in the back ground. Some years back, I went ducking hunting at Sunnyside in Nov. with this "hard core" duck hunter and all he had was two tarps/sleeping bag/wool blanket and he made his own bivy sack of sort. I added a few "hot rocks" from the fire/wraped them up and put in the bottom of the sleeping bag and was very comfortable. We just sealed the edges of the tarps and we were very comfortable. Crude but effective.

1010 Jake: it was FATROOSTER, not COSA that suggested PRE PACKING supplies in...Yes a Great Idea and just do it on the scouting trips in. The Back Packs offered by Eberlestock look great but they don't look large enough for the "long" stay afield as far as Qubic Inches. I didn't see the specs but the pictures looked smaller that the Badlands 4500..I do like the features of where they place gun/bow. They are truely designed for the hunter or military applications. Thanks for pitching in.

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[falloutwest]

1010Jake, when did you get an Eberlestock pack?? You're copying me aren't you! You never told me you hooked yourself up with one of those bad boys, you know they are made here in ID right? Yea, thats right, you are truning over to the dark side..........when we going shed hunting???

 

[elkfrek]

There are two books that would help you out Greatly. Back Country Bowhunting by Cameron Hanes. And Hunting Public Land Muleys by David Long, both books are very informative. They tell you exactly what products they use and recommend. I use a Bullpac backpack and love it. I would recommend them to anyone!!

 

[DancingFool]

Fatrooster: I've tried leaving a few PM's for you but not sure if I'm doing it right. Did you recieve/reply? If you did reply, where do I see it..on my e-mail or on this site somewhere?

ElkFrek: I've ordered one book/cd by C.Hanes allready and looking forward to reading it. Any more information I can get about public hunts is appreciated. Thanks for the suggestion.
There's been some interesting discussions about him in some other posts here. Sorry if this is not the right place to say this...As far as my two cents about him...his kids are lucky to even have a father in the house, never mind that he is gone a lot, etc. Our military men are gone a lot and the wife has to hold down the fort and be everything to the kids. If Cammeron and his wife have an agreement that works for the them, God bless them. How many kids today are in broken homes? Nobody is perfect, but at least his kids have a two parrent home.

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[Hardway]

Dancinfool,

MSR is coming out with a new filter/pump that only weighs 7oz's. Thats huge for a filter. Should be out by March, the info is on their website. Also should be noted that the MSR filters are made of a ceramic material that can be CLEANED in the backcountry if they become plugged up, unlike the other filters that use a replaceable paper filter. Here is my 2008 list....

Badlands Superday
North Face Dyad 22 2man tent
Big Agnes Zirkel +20 down bag
Big Agnes Air core pad
Home made pepsi can alcohol stove
6 oz's fuel
Cut down titanium spork
600ml single wall titanium cup
Msr filter
Aqua mira tablets (emergency)
1 (2) liter platypus water blatter
Maps,compass
License's, ID
Leatherman
Small piece of sharpening stone
5 extra rounds
pillow cases or meat sacks
1/2 roll TP + some wet one's
50ft parracute cord
couple ounces of camp soap
flashligh AND headlamp
1/2 roll elecrical tape
insect repelent
needle & thread
Cabelas space rain gear
gloves
matches and lighters
FIRST AID KIT

Food
1-2 Mountain houses per day
Power bars/grannola bars/candy bars
Vitamins
Powdered Gatorade
Foldgers Singles (like tea bags but coffee)

As far as clothes go, it just depends on when and where.
A little hint, Backpacking always starts by the pound and eventually by the ounce or even the gram. Alot of guys dont understand why weight is so important. The more you go, the more creative you'll get and the more places you will find to cut weight. Things you thought you needed that now you dont and vice versu. There's alot of different ways to go, you will eventually develop your own style that works for you.


P.S. Just a warning, it's a sickness. Once you start, you will always be looking for the next lightweight piece of gear

 

[DancingFool]

Hardway, wow...thanks for the list. There's a lot of equipment that you use that has been suggested in other notes/forums like the sleeping bag/pad, Badlands Pack (I'm leaning towards the 4500 for long trip but probably should have a 3000 QI pack for shorter overnight/day hunts as well) and it's good to see repeats. I can't wait to get into the mountians this summer and share my experience and feed back on the equipment. I found a cool pack in one of the other discussions that allows you to strap the gun to the top of the pack for quick release.
I went to a site which showed some diagrams of the pepsi can burner and it was a little confusing to me. It seems the better the stove, the harder it is to fill? Do you have a site that has an easy to understand diagram/design? I'm very handy with tools and JB Weld or do you suggest another High Temp Product to build burner?
I was going to commit to purchasing the "Pocket Rocket w/ titanium pot for 60.00 and the Katadyn Hicker Filter for 60.00 as well as the REI Alps mountianeering Desert Pine Sleeping Bag for 64.00. Any body have oppinions about any of these items? The bag is rated for 0 degrees but don't regognize the brand. I'll check out the pump you suggested as it's a good thing to be able to clean on the run.
My son is a little concerned about our saftey so I'm thinking of taking the "Spot" messenger service or Sat Phone that was suggested in another discussion on this site. I'll make my son cary that! Thank you very much for pitching in your list and advice.
Matt

 

[Hardway]

http://zenstoves.net/

This site will tell you everything you want to know about stoves. The clear advantage is only having to carry the fuel you need (boiling 2 cups only needs 1 oz fuel). Plus the stove itself is extremley light. I use this set up only to boil water. The mountain house meals I use reguire 2 cups or about 500ml so I use a snow peak 600ml mug that also doubles as my coffe mug in the morning.

I use my superday pack for 1-2 nights, anything over and I strap it to a cabelas external frame. By puting my sleeping bag and a waterproof duffel with my clothes externally on the frame I can pack in for longer than I need to. The 4500 is nice but if your just packing in and hunting from the same camp everyday the 4500 is too large for a daypack imo.

 

[isayNUNYA]

Stay away from backpacks made for hunters. I have a badlands daypack (2200) but would never think of taking one on a week trip.
I use a ARC'TERYX Bora 85. This pack is made for backpacking and living out of. You get 70+ pounds on your back you won't be sorry you bought it.
Other gear:
Summer bag :Sierra design, Moonlight
Cold weather bag: Kelty, chinook
1 therma rest sleeping pad
1 polar fleece pullover and bottoms.
1 pair under armour top and bottoms
1 Cabelas MT0-50 (raingear)
1 pair of woolsocks for every 2 days spent
1 northface shorts (summer and desert trips)
1 under armour beenie
1 ball cap
1 msr 2liter water bladder
1 msr pocket rocket stove
1 can fuel for every 3 days
1 msr waterworks ex filter (make sure and get a ceramic filter. fiber filters clogg and you cant clean them in the field)
2 petzl head lamps
100' rope if sheep hunting
2 nalgene water bottles (desert trips)
1 titanium stove and hard plastic coffee cup
1 light-my-fire combo fork,spooon,knife
1 Mt. house meal per day
2 folgers singles per day
2 insant oatmeal packs per day (just tear off top and add water right in oatmeal packet)
2 granola bars a day
1 ramen noodle per day (sprinkle flavoring on them and eat them dry like a cracker)
1 pack saltines per 2 days
1 foil pack tuna or salmon per day
1 instant gatorade powder packet per day
1 chocolate bar per day
1 bag dried fruit for every 2 days
misc first aid gear, sunscreen, personal items, couple lighters, extra knife
1 package of handi wipes!!! don't leave home with out!
20' cord
video camera
swaro 65 scope
gitzo composite tripod
binoculars

thats about it. Last year my "buddies tied a case of beer to the top of my pack and bet me I couldn't pack it in, I showed them! Wouldn't recommend that though.


---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"

 

[Hoghead]

You might check out another brand called Wilderness pack specialties they make a very lightwieght packboard and then sell bags that attach to it so you have a day pack as well if you are going to leave your camp in the same location each day. I've used this combo for quite some time and it works great. When I don't plan on staying in the same spot each night I use a Kelty Shadow (4900 cu.in.) for my long trips and a Badlands 2800 for my shorter trips. I've been pleased with all three.

 

[DancingFool]

Hardway, I spent a lot of time on the ZEN web sight browsing around. Very interesting and lots of information about every kind of stove like you said. My only concern about the alcohol stoves in using them below freezing. I liked the simplicity of the "Plumbers Stove". You brought up a good point about the larger packs like the Badlands 4500. What do you do about a day pack one you've set up camp? It would be smart to have a well designed pack like you suggested that has sections which makes it versitile. The trick here to pack everything "close" to the body like those High Tech packs. Thanks again for the Zen site. It's been fun looking at all those home made stoves.
Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[DancingFool]

IsayNunya, thanks for pitching in your "list". It looks great.If I put 70+lbs on my back, I'm going to have to take some weight off the front! LOL I'm noticed that the suspension systme on the pack you suggested doesn't look any better than the badlands and this is a very expensive pack. What in your opinion makes it a better pack? I can't see the any physical elements that sepparate the two. Badlands suspension system has design elements to it that are very similar to the traditional back packs but it comes in camo and a few other features that may sepparate it from the traditional. The most inportant thing to me is to find a pack that we can use that we can haul 5 to 7 days of gear and then have a day pack for the "day hunting". What do you do for a day pack after you set up camp? This was addressed by the suggestion of using a "pack frame" that you can add parts to. If the suspension system is good/quality and you pack it properly it seems to me that for the hunter that would be the only way to go? I just want to have a pack that get's my gear in, set up base camp and then have a day pack for day stuff and for packing animal back to camp. I really like the badlands but I would have to carry another pack for the day hunt right? Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[DancingFool]

Hey Hoghead, welcome back, site looks good, nice products, they've got some nice designs but are they as comfortable as the badlands or hightech tradional packs suspension systems? I didn't have a good look at the suspension side of the pack frame. Maybe I should have browsed around more? Does anyone use a larger pack and attach an empty day pack or fanny pack for the day hunt? I guess it depends on how far you're going to hike from the based camp. Got some thinking/planning to do with my son. Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[isayNUNYA]

Its all in the fit and how it rides on your back. I'm sure the badlands is ok I love my badlands day pack. A hippie backpackin buddy talked me into trying the ARC'TERYX pack. Previous I had used a number of cheaper hunting style packs. The difference was unbelievable how it felt loaded up.
My pack usually weighs around 45-50 pounds for a 4-5 day trip. That is not including water. For a desert sheep trip such as the escalante where you may find no water I will pack up to 2 gallons adding another 15-20 pounds. Coming out with an animal your pack wieght will skyrocket! Also this happens at the end of your trips when your wore down tired and hungry. I wouldn't skimp trying to save a hundred bucks on my pack. You won't regret spending the extra cash.



---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"

 

[Hardway]

My only concern
>about the alcohol stoves in
>using them below freezing.

I've used mine down into the mid 30's at about 8500'. I hear if it gets colder you need to keep your fuel inside your sleeping bag or carry it in your pocket to keep it warm. Also some guys have found ways to fight the cold and altitude by using "primer pans" and stuff like that.

You brought up
>a good point about the
>larger packs like the Badlands
>4500. What do you do
>about a day pack one
>you've set up camp? It

I still use my badlands superday. I just strap it to any empty pack frame, no bag. And add a waterproof duffel that carries my clothes. You can use any size duffel you want so the options are endless. You can even carry an empty one to fill with meat, just make sure you bring plenty of parracute cord and nylon straps. When I get to camp or see something off the trail I want to check out, I just unstrap my superday and go.

 

[DancingFool]

Hardway, I'll probably end up making a alcohol stove for fun and bring it with on this summers scouting trip along with the msr pocket rocket.
So, who makes the best "Pack Frame" that compares to the high tech hunter or traditional back packs? Matt

 

[kilowatt]

DancingFool,

Fatrooster works shift work, so he isn't on here all of the time but he will answer you when he can. Depending on the shift, he checks in here at work when by himself.

Brian

 

[Hardway]

> So, who makes the
>best "Pack Frame" that compares
>to the high tech hunter
>or traditional back packs? Matt
>

Good question, I use the cabelas alaskan. Its the only one I've ever used and have'nt gotten to checking out any others. My next big purchase is the big agnes sleeping bag and pad. My current bag is synthetic and heavy and so is my thermorest pad. The new set up will save about 3lbs. Other than that I have everything on my list other than the new MSR filter which wont be out till march or april. Backpacking for me is constantly seeing what works better and updating my current gear. It never ends, there's always something that can be improved on and weight to be cut. Like I said earlier, just get out there and see what happens. You'll develop your own style.

 

[Hoghead]

I've packed 80lb loads of meat on them for a few miles so I would say yes. They have stabilizers and the whole nine yards. Like I was saying I am completely satisfied with all three packs. I use the other 2 when I'm going to be moving around alot because they are more designed for that I would say. I use the Wilderness when I'm am going to be going to and from base camp each day I'll cary the packboard and only my day pack on it so it is very light.

 

[DancingFool]

Brian, thanks for the note. I just wanted to tell you that I've learned a lot from you and Fatrooster's posts on this site. My son and I are having a good time reading all the posts, making our shoping list and planing a backpacking trip into the Rubies or where we're lucky enough to pull a tag. Either way, we're getting up into those mountians.

Hardway, Badlands 4500 only weighs 8 lbs and the Cabellas Alaskan Frame alone weighs 6.2 lbs. with pack 12.8 lbs. which seams heavy in comparison. If we go with the pack frame, to save weight we'd have to do as you suggested and use a light weight waterpfoof duffle (3,000 QI) for clothes/supplys a badlands ultra day pack 2Lbs 8oz,(1,800 QI for the day's hunt and packing animal to base camp, sleeping bag and pad. For our first few hunts/outings we're not going to move base camp. We're going to take it easy and get to know the areas well and make it fun at first. Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[DancingFool]

There's been some great suggestions for my son and I, who by the way are beginers at backpacking/big game hunting so we have a plan based on this and the advice we've gotten from you all.
On our first few backpacking trips/scouting/hunts we're going to limit our distance from truck to only 4 to 6 hrs in. We'll set up a base camp and scout/glass from ridge lines from there and get to know the area and game in that given area. We can allways move base camp after a few days if we want.
So I think we're goint to do the following as far as pack for now. Let me know what you think.

Buy a well designed pack frame that will accomidate 5,000 Q.I plus sleeping gear for the 5 to 7 days in field and attach the following:

1. Sleeping Bag
2. Pad
3. 2 man Tent or Biv Sack
4. Badlands Ultra Day pack 1,800 Q.I
5. King Size Pillow Case protected by Heavy Duty Lawn Bag capable of storing 3,000 Q.I of gear and compress it to pack to keep close as possible to body. Is this dumb idea?

Do two men both have to carry this mutch stuff for 5 to 7 days?

Those hi tech bags are great as far as design and weight
( Badlands 4500) but I still need a day pack once we're up there as we're not going to move camp every day. We?re agreed to limit our distance from the Truck to no more than 4 to 6 hrs. hiking. My son wants to take it careful at first and I agree with him. I think it will be a good way to test ourselves and the the gear/pack we use. What do you think of my pack idea based on distance in and being beginers and not moving camp? Here's a question...if two men are going in for 5 to 7 days can one cary a Badlands 4500 and the other cary a Badlands Super Day or 2200 and have enough gear for stay? Once camp is set up we can use the smaller pack for day trips and share carrying it out and back? Would this be a good compromise and still be enough gear for two men sharing bassically just the tent and cooking equip? Are there any Pack Frames that have a quality suspension system like the high tech bags? I've checked out a few so far from some suggested, any others? If not, than maybe we'll go with the Larger/Smaller bag combo so we're not buying something that we're not going to use but just a few times?

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[elkfrek]

http://bullpacs.com/
I highly consider these pacs!! I like a pack that has a frame. This pac has hooks on the outside rails that are awesome. They are a great company stand be hind there products! I have hauled out numerous 100# plus pacs here in nevada and these pacs are very comfortable. I have used eberlestocke,kifaru,and cabelas frame pacs. The straps on the other three all bothered me, the bullpacs didnt.. They sell a awesome pac I would recommend to anyone.

 

[DancingFool]

Elkfrek, thanks...I checked it out and even though there were a lot of happy customers including yourself...the hip supports/pads look slim at best and I wasn't able to see the should pads/straps aka Suspension System.
Also, there was no mention of empty weight. It doesn't look comfortable but I'll take your word for it. They seemed to have a lot of happy customers.
Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[3blade]

4.3 lbs.

 

[Califelkslayer]

Dancing fool, I packed in the rubies leading horses but I had frame and optics on me and 5.5 hours = over 10 miles. I suggest a daily or 4-5 times a week routine. Treadmill, stairstepper or eliptical at the very minimum.

Personally I hike a mountain behind my house, will start next week with daylights savings time. When I can get to a certain point in 30 minutes, I add pack + 25 lbs weight. A few weeks later when I can get to the same place in 30 min with pack, I add 5 lbs. I do this until I have 55 lbs plus 8 lb pack on. Come hunting season, even if I don't backpack, my 20 lb hunting pack all day long seems light. Hour a night, 4-5 nights a week will pay big dividends.

Your prehunt trips are a great idea to see what works but conditioning is better if you're consistent plus you'll lose weight you don't need and gain muscle where you need it.

Good luck on your hunt.

 

[DancingFool]

Califelkslayer, Thank you for the regiment. Great routine. Had a meeting with my son today about equipment and getting ready physically so this is going to help alot. I've got some mountians not to far, black mt or sunrise. If we don't get a tag we're going up anyways at least twice this year. I'd like to get into some Snow #####/Chukar/Coyotes. Plan your work, work your plan. I think I'm going to watch Rocky every week. Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[elkfrek]

Just the answer I would exspect from a Clark County Resident. Good Luck!

 

[DancingFool]

Ekdfrek, thanks for support. I'm doing situps, pushups, squats stretching while coffee is brewing. The hikes are a lot more little more difficult but necessary.
Durring my search for a light weight shelter/tent/tarp which was based on much of what most of you have suggested in other posts.... I looked up man made tents, and when looking up "tarp tents" I found this. Maybe you all know about this guy and his tents. He's one of the gurus of Tarp Tents. He's coming out with a 3 man model this spring. What do you think of this product?

http://www.tarptent.com

Happy Hunting, Matt

 

[Califelkslayer]

Dancer, buddy of mine whose 6'2", 270 did the hills 2 times a weeks and flat ground 3 times a week and it really helped him, less stress on the important parts, ankles, knees, hips. He didn't use a weighted backpack either. A little bit every day is better than a lot once ina while unless you are young. Good luck!

 

[DancingFool]

Calif, You couldn't be more right. I'm going to make this fun by incorporating some dirt bike riding. I've got this Honda XR 600 Dual Sport bike so I'm putting on a small Camel Day pack with 5/10 lbs and ride to the base of Black Mt. and do some hiking/riding. My son and I are going into the application process with 0 points so we're saying our prayers. We have a pretty good idea of what units to put in for thanks to all the posts here and talking to friends that hunt. We're having a great time planing our back pack trip this summer, looking forward to the whole process, especially the back packing. This is unrelated but I've got to tell you guys...I just picked up my prize from Weatherby...a HMR .17 that I won in the Dream Hunt Contest ( 3rd place ). It's a beautiful rifle.
Happy Hunting, Matt