Berger 168 VLD Seating Depth - .300 Win Mag

[deepforks]

so i just picked up a hornady oal gauge w/a .300 case. started playing around with a berger bullet and heres what i came up with in my rem 700.

hornady case length 2.6145
bullet length 1.261
total 3.8755

using the oal gauge & comparator i get 2.829 (on the lands - case head to ogive). this gives me a oal of 3.547. minus that from 3.8755, my bullet is only seating in .3285. say i go .025 off the lands this puts my bullet depth to .3535.

maybe i'm just used to stuffing in a bullet vs trying to be a bit more precise now, but it just does not seem like enough depth. i used the oal gauge with a berger, hornady and combined tech. and they all seemed like the bullets was sticking way out there. i guess i'm not used to it yet. any thoughts/opinions?

 

[Cahunter805]

The general rule of thumb is at least the bullet diameter seated into the neck. In your 300 that would be. 308. You should be fine. Also the 300win has a short neck so keep that in mind.
I would start the bergers either on the lands or .005 off and work up the powder charge. RL22 is a great powder in the 300.

 

[completesportsman]

I copied and pasted below a test that Berger recommends to try with their bullets. You need to try it, it will save you some time.

Be careful with the AOL tool, it is really easy to push the VLD bullet and jam it into the lands and not realize it. The ogive of the VLD makes this easy to do.




Originally Posted by Berger Bullets
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Background

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won't shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying ?this is the best my rifle has ever shot.?

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.


Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a ?sweet spot?. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located {centered} anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won't be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don't give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:

.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:

.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL towards or away from the lands .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith

 

[deepforks]

good read. thanks for posting.

 

[hntbambi]

I shoot Berger Bullets in my 25-06 and I followed Berger's recommendations on depth. It works. My sweet spot was .090" off of the lands and I am getting MOA at 600 yards. Seating closer or into the lands is not always best. In fact, if I had 2 good grouping depths I would go with the deeper of the two. Usually it will reduce the ES numbers and make the ammo more consistent at long range.

 

[RELH]

Depending on your rifle, you may find a factor that will need to be considered on your seating dept of the bullets. That factor is the lenght of your rifle magazine. Some mags will not accept bullets seated to far out due to overall lenght being longer then the mag.

RELH

 

[deepforks]

>Depending on your rifle, you may
>find a factor that will
>need to be considered on
>your seating dept of the
>bullets. That factor is the
>lenght of your rifle magazine.
>Some mags will not accept
>bullets seated to far out
>due to overall lenght being
>longer then the mag.
>
>
>
>
> RELH

my rem. 700 has plenty of mag room, so i'm good there. i've been playing with seating depths on my 270 as well. do any of you that seat at or near the lands put any sort of crimp on the bullet? with so little being seated, i'm a bit concerned about the extra rounds in the mag possibly coming apart due to recoil. i'm headed to the range this evening, so i guess i'll find out but i'd like to here some opinions. thanks.

 

[BuckSnort]

>my rem. 700 has plenty of
>mag room, so i'm good
>there. i've been playing with
>seating depths on my 270
>as well. do any of
>you that seat at or
>near the lands put any
>sort of crimp on the
>bullet? with so little being
>seated, i'm a bit concerned
>about the extra rounds in
>the mag possibly coming apart
>due to recoil. i'm headed
>to the range this evening,
>so i guess i'll find
>out but i'd like to
>here some opinions. thanks.

You should seat the bullets into the case at least the diameter of the bullets (.308") this will give you proper neck tension to have consistent chamber pressure..No need to crimp..Also make sure you are seating on the bullets bearing surface..

Disclaimer:
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[Bullfrog]

Completesportsman,

Curious to know what seating die you use or recommend for VLD bullets?

Thanks,

Bullfrog

 

[completesportsman]

I started out trying to shoot with the VLD close to the lands, but my rifle shot better with them seated deeper. The .090 seating depth was the best for me also and I have been going to tweak it more from there, just have not had the time.

Bullfrog,
I have only used Redding Dies, I'm sure others would work well too.