Berger VLD

R

ramtagless

Active Member
Messages
835
MM'ers -

I have read on this forum (and others) good things about Berger VLD's and need a bit more specific advice.

This is my story. My go to gun has been a 7 mag., but I drew a Henry Mountains bison tag, so it is time to dust off the old .300 RUM. Most recently I have shot scirocco's out of that gun and they shoot pretty good. For this hunt I am going heavier than 180 grain and Berger VLD's come in .308 210 grain. Sounds like a good option and I am going to give them a try.

Midways description of the bullet is below. My only potential concern is penetration on a bison. Short story long...my question to those that have used them on bull elk and other heavy game...what kind of penetration did you get and would you consider them a good round for a buffalo?

That gun also likes 220 grain partitions, that would be a good round, but I am short on time (for reloading)these days.

Thanks in advance for any advice on these bullets....

"The Berger Hunting bullet line features Very Low Drag (VLD) bullets that have the highest possible ballistic coefficient designed for 300 yards or more. The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the initial expansion, the bullet will shed between 40% and 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organs)."
 
Congrats on the great tag.

I personally would go with the nosler or barnes bullet over a berger on a buffalo. Bison have big bones and this part of the berger bullet does not impress me:

"After the initial expansion, the bullet will shed between 40% and 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue"

I would use a bullet that is designed for deep penetration and very large animals, not one that is used for 1,000 yd shots. I also like bison meat and shrapnel would damage more meat, at least it sounds like it would. But, that is my $0.02
 
The berger VLD is a great bullet! Load it over some retumbo(88-92gr) and you will love it. Id also look at the 200gr Nosler accubond. Either would be perfect for your 300RUM IMO.
 
People go way overkill on most animals. My dad sho his bison with his 270 and the bullets went all the way through and stopped on the hide on the other side. The bison didn't go 30 yards. So what I am saying is pretty much any quality hunting bullet will get the job done. He was using 150 grain nosler prtitions.
 
Not sure I'd load a VLD for a once-in-a-lifetime hunt on a big tough critter like a bison. All the hype is great, until it isn't. mtmuley
 
Bergers are great bullets for a lot of things, but shooting buffalo probably isn't one of them.


"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
I would say go for it! Having been apart of over 100 kills on mostly elk, and also deer, bear I would say they will do just as good of a job if not better then the other top choices. I know most people that are hesitant to shoot a berger have only shot paper with them. You shoot a bison in the shoulder bone with any bullet and your asking for trouble. The Berger will do more damage then the others!
 
+1 on the Retumbo. that .210 VLD is one of the highest BC bullets for that gun. I strongly recomend the VLD to any bullet out there. My Gunwerks .300 RUM with a .180 VLD dropped my Elk at 781 yards just fine. I think the VLD should handle a buff.

Congrats on the tag!
Good luck!
 
If you decide to use them be sure to give us a report.

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
If you think that the bergers just break apart you need to shoot them and compare to the other top bullets.I've compared them at long range and the bergers are top notch.
 
I have killed two Buffalo on the Henrys, both times I used a 200gr Partition out of my 300rum, both times the worked great. It's an awesome hunt, Good Luck!!!
 
OK Epointer?

How do you get Lucky enough to hunt Buffalo twice on the Henries since the RUM has evolved?

Not being Smart,just wondering?

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
Yes wet_boot!

Kinda what I figured!

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
I think because its a OIL hunt, I'd go w/ the 200 Accubonds...they shoot great in a RUM w/o a lot of playing around. Henry's buffalo is a tough hunt nowadays. They are really reclusive...like hunting a big muley on a general public tag...good luck!
 
>OK Epointer?
>
>How do you get Lucky enough
>to hunt Buffalo twice on
>the Henries since the RUM
>has evolved?
>
>Not being Smart,just wondering?
>
>For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids
>on this Site,Some of them
>are 65 years Old!:D
>
>I don't care if they're big
>or small!
>If they throw lead I like
>em all!
>
>:p


Ok B-bop, I drew in 2008 with 10 points. In 2009 my buddy talked me into putting in for some of those 200 expo tags, so I told him I would donate 50 bucks. That 50 dollar donation turned in to my second buffalo hunt on the Henrys, OIL buffalo two years in a row!!!
 
I shot an elk with the VLD last year......yes, only one experience with the VLD but I was unimpressed with the bullet preformance. I got the elk, the animal was anchored with one shot but should have been dead right then and there. I had to finish it off when I got up to it 10 minutes later.
The bullet shoots like a laser but lacks the integrity to penetrate to and through the vitals. READ: Blows up without sufficient penetration TO MY LIKING.
I've used Barnes and Accubonds and Partitions and killed more critters than I should post lest I be called a liar!

Bottom line: I would not use a vld on a bison if I had the tag.

Only my 2 cents based on knowing what I want.

Zeke

But if youdo use VLD's, let us know YOUR opinion of them on big game.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys.

No doubt the bullet would group really well, no doubt the bullet would fly really really well, my concern is what happens once the bullet arrives at its target? Sounds like my concern about penetration was justified (not to mention meat damage).

Part of the fun of a good tag is looking at different cartridges, bullets, gear, etc. In this case I will stick with what has worked for a lot of guys in the past.

I have had good luck with 180 grain accubonds. Based on that and a few of your comments...think I will give the 200 grain accubonds a test run.

Thanks again...
 
Three 180 grain accubonds that were dug out of a WSMR oryx (can not complain about that). I think 200 grain accubonds will work nicely.

5334bullets_002.jpg
 
I re-read some of the post and appreciate the opinion of those that have used the berger's. They would likely work fine, but I would have a nagging concern (justified or not). Probably over thinking it, huntinfool is right, a lot of cartridges and bullets can get the job done. But - its fun to talk about and try new stuff out.
 
If your gun already like 220 partitions, why change on such a tag. I use bergers myself for deer and elk. If your gun alredy shot them well I wouldn't tell you to change, but they can be picky to get to shoot well and they are NOT going to retain 50%+ and end up on the far hide after pentrating 3ft of bison. Just sayin...
 
Shot my buff with a Nosler in .270 and it went clear thru and took care of business quickly. I loaded some Bergers for our 7mm's and my son shot a bull at under 100 yards and the bullet blew up and there was scrapnel everywhere. I believe the Bergers are excellent bullets and have shot them in my 300RUM, but I believe if it were me, I would stick with the Accubond for the buff.
Like was mentioned earlier, any good bullet will work, and especially with good placement.
Either way, you will enjoy that hunt!
a*r
 
I wouldn't ever shoot them. 4 or 5 clients of mine shot Bergers last year and everyone of them blew up and came apart. The animals were all dead, but what a mess. Every one of those guys said they'd never use them again. I guess they need to be fragile when they are shooting at 1,000 yards so they can cause enough damage. I'd go with a Partition.
 
Those 200 Accubonds really shoot good between 3050 and 3150 fps depending on your set-up.
 
I've had several one shot kills with the berger vlds. Far too many hunters put too much stock into what a bullet looks like after the shot, how much weight it retains, or if an animal is stone cold dead on arrival. The Vlds have anchored every animal I have ever shot. I have never personally killed anything bigger than an elk with bergers but have talked to guys who have killed alaskan moose and grizzly with them.Put a VLD through the vitals of a buff and it's game over. I'd also wouldn't be afraid of the accubonds for buff.
 
Bullet construction on larger big boned animals is a major concern as is shot placement. My wife and I watched a guy shoot a big bull 6 times with a .300 WBY Mag and still not dispatch the animal on my buffalo hunt several years ago. He wasn't the best shot but he kept putting them in what he thought was the boiler room and that bull kept taking the punishment and walked off. You got some pretty good advice on better constructed bullets and I'd take it. I used a trophy bonded bear claw out of a .300 Winny mag to shoot my buff and it went down like a ton of bricks. My advice is study where the organs are because many a savy hunter has been fooled shooting at buffalo and use a good well constructed bullet that will penetrate bone if necessary. Good luck and I hope you have a great hunt. You won't be disappointed with the table fare so why not use a bullet designed for the job to preserve as much of that excellent meat for your table. The VLD is a good bullet but it's not made to penetrate heavy dense bones and punch thru to the vitals on large thick skinned animals.
 
This is not a comment, just a question. I've heard Berger VLD's are awesome from 300 plus yards out. But that they blow apart on closer game. If that's the case, you'd have to back up when you get ready to shoot. Any info would be appreciated.
 
I've had only 1 experience with the vld so I'm not the best expert, but, I shot an elk at well beyond the 300yd mark and the bullet still performed like a varmint bullet. Too much fragmentation for big game (to my liking).
Maybe back up to 1000 yds and they'd be fine. haha

I love they way they shoot but don't like what they do when they get there. I won't use them but that's why we have a little thing called "choice".

Zeke
 
There's alot of guys on here alot more knowledgable than me on ballistics and bullets. I've only ever shot Winchester Ballistic Silvertips, shot them out of my Browning Bar 7mag, and now with my Ruger 300 win mag. They fly straight, and have killed everything I have shot with them. Elk, deer, bear, coyotes, etc.... Alot of guys don't like ballistic tips, I've been told they won't even kill elk. Not true. So long story short, use what you know works in your gun, and put it exactly where you want it to go. If it ain't broke, don't muck it up.
 
I have used the VLD's out of my 7mm STW on elk. We stoked it with VLD's and asked our clients on our elk ranch to use it on the guided elk hunts. We shot around 20 bulls and a few cows at ranges from 200-800 yards, and all the elk we shot are dead. Some shots were spectacular, and others required a follow up shot. Some blew up and scattered stuff everywhere.

I took the STW to Colorado and hunted deer, and while on the deer hunt I saw a big black bear that I shot at long range. The bear was lying down broadside asleep with the right arm in front of the vitals. I took the shot and hit the bear in the forearm. I believe the bullet blew up on the arm and failed to enter the chest like a partition, or accubond would have done. This is the last time I shot one of the VLD's. I don't trust them enough to take a chance on losing another animal. The bear bled for over two miles till it quit and I never did catch up to him.

I had loaded the VLD's in my 25-06 the same year and my wife shot a buck with it at about 175 yards. As we walked up on the area where the buck was standing there was blood all over the place and as we followed the massive blood trail for around 80 yards it looked like a red carpet. When I found the deer it was dead, but the part I was not impressed with is the entrance hole. It was about the size of a football and the lungs and guts were hanging out of the hole. There was no exit. I know the deer was dead, but I just don't like holes that large and zero penetration.

I personally will not shoot them again on any animal. Accubonds have been just as accurate at long range, and much more reliable in performance and penetration in my opinion.

I'm a taxidermist and I hate seeing huge holes blown in animals that require patching and fixing. Seen a lot of capes and lifesize hides ruined with VLD's too. Neck shoot a deer with one and you will be buying a new cape.

I think we are using target bullets to gain that extra range while we sacrifice performance and reliability.

Use 'em if you want, but I'll pass.

DeerBeDead
 
My experiences with the vld have been great. Before I used them I was skeptical because of what I read by some. My first animal I killed with a Berger was a 250 lb Black bear in montana. The shot was 500+ yards and I hit the Bear right in the shoulder bone. The bullet penetrated threw the bone and into the boiler room. While skinning the Bear I was curious as to what kind of damage the bullet did so I opened it up. a small entry would was on the outside and no meat ruined, but inside it looked like a bomb went off in his chest. All of the organs were shredded and I was very impressed with the damage it caused.
Other animals I have shot with them include a cow elk at 934 yards. It was a one shot drop in her tracks. I hit her just behind the shoulder and the exit hole was the size of a silver dollar.. Yes an exit hole with a vld.
This year in colorado I killed my biggest buck to date at 612 yards. Again it was a one shot kill and again a nice size exit hole. I did not find a single piece of fragment and didnt ruin any meat.
I did have my worries about close range and blowing up but not anymore. I have had close shots at elk from 80-150 yards and they didnt make it very far. No exit hole on close range shots but the organs were toast. But we dont try to shoot animals in the shoulder bone to anchor the animal. when you hit them with a Berger they dont make it far.
Yes I feel that longer ranges is where they really shine compared to other bullets. They will expand at lesser speeds and do more damage.
I dont expect to change any minds but the Berger is just as good at puting animals down as any other bullet. if you have a bullet that works well for you then keep on keeping on.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-11 AT 07:11AM (MST)[p]yes i loaded them in my single shot .30-.30. i took a big bull at 1087 yards blew 19 pounds of hamburger of his hindquarters. then i shot a doe at 991 yards. a coyote at 773 yards, a goat at 856 yards and a whistle pig at 655 yards all were 1 shot kills............and of cource i am b.s. ing just like the other
600+ yard posters.
 
Yep because if beavis can't shoot no-one can, Right?

The post is about opinions on a bullet and the info has been good, until yours.

Bill

Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-11 AT 07:36AM (MST)[p]i just have got a belly full of this long range crap ! this is the absolute lowest form of slob hunting in my opinion ! it is dangerous, lazy and a geat way to gut shot or shoot an animals legs off ect. unless you are shooting from a bench have zero wind and the animals legs are bound NO ONE has any buisiness shooting at a live animal ot over 700 yards. don't care if you can punch x rings at 1200 yards in your sleep. it is a target under known conditions and can't move.....

i know there are guys here who are fully capable of making those shots and i have no problem with them to each there own. but i am very fearful of" bubba" buying a " long range rig " telling his buddies to hold his beer and watch this
and heaving hail mary's over our heads as we are stalking an animal or seeing a bunch of gut shot animals ect. long range hunting , road hunting, shooting deer under a corn feeder are just shooting and not " hunting " imho...........
 
beavis14,
I agree with the first two sentences in the second paragraph.

There are those who do a pretty good job shooting a rifle. The problem I've seen is EVERY HUNTER THINKS HE'S A GREAT SHOT! I think the long-range stuff is a bit much also. I've shot alot at ranges to 750yds and a bit to 1000 yds. It's a LONG ways to shoot and the WIND is the big unknown even with a wind meter!

When possible.....get closer or hold fire on big game. If the shooter has any question in the shot, at all, then don't shoot.

2 cents.... for free.

Sorry for my part in hi-jacking the thread.

Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-11 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]Beavis,
How did you come up with 700 yards??? And who are you to set this range??? Can you provide evidence that more animals are gut shot/leg shot/ wounded at 700+ then under that range??
Let me be the first to tell you that I do not give a sh.it what you think!!! Just because you cant do it does not mean someone else can not. and at the end of the day I will out shoot you any day all day at any range! Dont believe me? come on up and you will go home with your big foot in your big mouth. And this applys to shooting animals as well.
While I will say That the closer the shot the better and I would much rather have a 200 yard shot then 500. I just dont agree with you setting a limit for everyone else at 700 yards when that is a very long. IF people are willing to put in the time then I dont have a problem with them shooting long range but you have to know your limits. But those that just buy a gun and think they can and will shoot any distance in any situation then they should not.
 
ha better get your facts straight buckwheat ! only an absolute idiot would need evidence to the fact it is much harder to hold on the vitals at 700 yards than 200. the longer the distance the more chance for error and the shot groups increase as well. and i as well don't give a sh*t what you think either !!!!

as for out shooting me MAYBE ...but i shoot 300 yards and in. with my HUNTING RIFLES. and for your info i have shot an antelope at 520 yards, and other shots that were taken with a dead solid rest and known ranges. it was a one shot kill with my .25-284. i am kind of like tom seleck in quigly down under with his pistol. just cause i don't have a use for it don't mean i can't do it.

didn't mean to offend the true blue long range guys. i have my opinion and you guys have right to yours. and i will agree many guys can't shoot a hundred yards accuratly. just can't stand guys standing on there soap box and look down there nose at people cause the shot there animal at 700+ yards and they think they should be awarded a medal for there skill......
 
Ha I find it funny you of all people bring up looking down your nose at people. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black! I don't have a problem with your way of hunting and limits but when you start telling others what they can or can't do and label them as lazy slobs then I do!
And just for your info I have wounded more animals under 300 then over. Rushed shots are the number one cause of a bad shot from 10 feet to 3,265 yards
 
3,265 yds? Now, one-dryboot, that's too far to kill your ram!
At least get it under 3K yds bro! LOL

I agree that over the years rushed shots are the biggest reason for missing. Lots of other things contribute to missing also. It all boils down to "knowing our ability limits and limiting our shots to our ability". Some folks just seem to melt down when their target has hair.

one-dryboot,
We should go pop a few caps before sheep season arrives. Call me and we'll go shooting.... if you want.
Zeke
 
Lol Zeke,


I agree with everything you said. Just got your P.M. and I will give you a call when I have time. Putting a few rounds sounds good.
 
I bet there has been more game wounded and lost by "bubba's" at 300 yards and under than by 600 and further ...

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
ramtagless - 2 years ago in Alaska my 2 buddies and I shot 3 sheep and 2 moose with VLD's and they performed flawless. I would not hesitate one bit after seeing what they done to the bull moose.

fairchase
 

Similar threads

T
ELD-X or Berger Elite
Replies
11
Views
464
heywouldya
heywouldya
devobrodie
Reloading?
Replies
34
Views
2k
BroadHead
B
P
Nosler Ballistic Silvertips .30 Cal., .270 Cal. and .243 (6mm) Cal.
Replies
3
Views
394
Panhandle
P

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

IMG_1942.jpeg
240C42E3-674D-4A14-AEF4-C89CB6F5B5AC.jpeg
EFB4533F-1B7F-4275-9F93-B984354CA9E6.jpeg
Nevada Trophy Bull
3B5E9ED8-10D5-4D84-A06B-AE7F53EC74A0.jpeg
14C4BA1C-8C3A-4B5B-AD00-FC84A7240A12.jpeg
7E201710-09EA-455D-A82B-C48F8D9092AD.jpeg
IMG_3302.png
Wasatch Trophy Bull
IMG_1041.jpeg
IMG_2397.png
Arizona Archery Bull for chipc
Back
Top Bottom