Best bullet for bull elk

out4elk

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491
Drew a limited entry ML tag and need to find a bullet that I trust with big elk.

I have used a 348 gr powerbelt for 6 years on deer and one spike elk. The spike died with one shot but after finding out the powerbelt fell apart I don't have warm fuzzies with using them on a big bull.

Your help is appreciated.
 
I've heard good things about the "No Excuses" bullets. I dont think you could go wrong with those, in a 460 grain. Do a Google seach and the website should come up.
 
385 or 410 grain Great plains bullet. Run about $7.50 for a pack of 20
 
What gun are you using? Some, like the Omega, may not like full bore, pure lead conicals. Mine will only shoot powerbelts adequately. However, you don't know until you try several.

Also, you don't neccessarily want to increase your power when you get a bigger bullet. In fact, just the opposite, you may need to drop your charge. A black powder equivalent of around 100 grains is MORE than adequte to kill any elk walking, and you will probably get better penetration and performance than if you try a 150 grain equivalent. Pure lead does not like to be pushed too hard.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I shoot an Austin&Halleck. For deer I am shooting 95 grains of 777.

Have any of you had any experience with the new Barnes MZ? When I first started MLing I shot the 300gr Barnes with excellent results, I just didn't like how hard they loaded. I found the 348 gr powerbelt combo that shot well from my rifle and have never shot anything else.
 
Out4elk,

The Barnes TMZ is my recommendation at 150 grains, the 285 grain bullet has the most enery of any load I could find. Guess the proof is in the performance, three shot groups touching was pretty good I thought.

Also, I killed a big old bull at 126 yards, the bullet went all the way through the lungs, far shoulder and stopped at the skin on out side, The bullet mushroomed good, but lost 2 or 3 petals along the way. The big bull died quickly.

Also, my brother killed a mature bull and he shot all the way through his bull with the same load at 40 ysrds.

Highly recommend this load. I shoot a CVA kodial magnum and my brother shoots a Encore.

Good Luck,

Johnny
 
I shoot barnes expander 250 gr, I have killed 3 elk with them all worked great, I shoot a Remington Mz with 2 50gr pyrodex pellets, No problem. I hope to kill a bull this fall with the same load. Bill
 
What type of Powerbelts are you shooting, Hollow point or AeroTip? I've shot elk with the hollow points and had similar concerns relative the fragmenting. I think that's what the hollow tip is actually designed for although I'm certainly not an expert. I've had good success as far as better penetration and no fragmenting with Thompson Center Maxi Balls. Be sure to not use the Maxi Hunters as they are for deer (per their website) but it is not labeled as such on the box. The maxi balls have better penetration for larger animals and the Maxi Hunters are designed for smaller animals such as deer. That's just the two types I've used and even though both have worked, I favor the TC bullets.
 
I hunt with the aerotips. For deer I have ZERO complaints, but the one spike I shot they hit part of the shoulder and came apart. Fragments pretty much killed him. There wasn't an exit hole and there was minimal bruising on the exit side.

Thanks for your input on the Barnes TMZ, I have been thinking of that bullet and will try it soon.
 
Killed em with the Barnes MZ in a 250 grain bullet. These bullets fly well out of both my barrels and get a bit more distance than a 300 grain slug...
 
I've never recovered a 300grn Hornady XTP from an elk... all pass-throughs, all leave exit holes as big as your fist.

I have recovered two, 240grn XTP's from deer shot quartering... those penetrated 24" and 30" respectively before stopping against the far side skin.

I absolutely could not be happier with XTP preformance. I might give the new SST's a try when I use up my box of XTPs.


-DallanC
 
While a lot of elk hunters use sabots, Those who hunt colorado during muzzleloading season, can not use sabots. Put yourself in that hunters shoes. Forget sabots, what conical would/do you use? Im setting my dads sidelock up for a 348 grain powerbelt and 90-100 grains RS for this seasons hunt.
 
I wouldn't trust a 348 gtrain Powerbelt on elk. My brother shot a little blacktail buck with one, in the ribs, and the bullet flattened out completely and didn't make it through the deer. It was about 75 yards. That just doesn't give me a lot of faith with that particular bullet on a big bull elk. However, I am going to try their flat point, 444 grains if I remember correctly.
 
No i trust the bullet. Ive used the 245 and 295s on mule deer over the years and they've broken ribs and exited. Im actually using a 225 grain powerbelt in my 45 this year for mule deer. My inline on the other hand is setup for 385 grain great plains bullets. Thats a little to much bullet for the sidelock and uncomfortable recoil.
 
Used a 348g AT on a cow elk and had complete pass through at 66 yds. I would use the bullet again however I would take a look at the new powerbelts out, supposed to hold together better.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-07 AT 03:00PM (MST)[p]I've been playing around with the new Barnes TMZ a little bit. Here are some water barrels (35gal)I shot the other day. 1st three are 290gr TMZ with 150gr of 777. 4th is a Barnes 250 W/a large hollow point.(Expander MZ) all were shot @ 63 yards. The TMZ goes right through the upright barrel every time, so I layed them down for bullet recovery. I'm going to try some other bullets in the coming weeks.


http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v155/muleskinner/?action=view&current=Barnes.flv
 
I have hunted elk in Colorado with muzzleloader every year since 2002. 2002 was my first year hunting anything with a muzzleloader. I have always put forth the effort to make sure I had the correct equipment that was suitable for the game I was hunting. When I started hunting elk with muzzleloader I researched guns, powder, and bullets. My research included this website as well as 1st hand experiences of friends and aquaintainces as well as recomendations from vendors at trade shows and salespeople from sportinggoods stores. I ended up making my decisions based on all this information and after my 1st elk season I was left thinking I should have trippled my efforts in researching my equipment. Even though I put forth effort I failed in picking the right combination and this effected not only me but my two partners as well. The 3 of us used the same gun,powder,bullet combination. We all after research decided on this combination. Remington model 700ml converted to 209 primers, cva powerbelt bullets in 295 gr( too light of bullet for elk but keep in mind this recomendation came from A CVA rep at a trade show) and 100gr of pyrodex loose powder. After extensive shooting and practice throughout the summer the 3 guns were shooting nearly identical 3 shot groups of under 2 inches at 100 yards with 1st shot from a clean barrel which seemed more than adequate for elk sized vitals.

This has been my experience with muzzleloaing for elk in Colorado.

2002 we all had cow elk tags. My friend was the first to conect with a cow. his shot was high and was a one shot kill even though it was a backbone hit. I didnt have as good of luck. It took me 3 elk to learn what I should have been able to learn through research. Its not pretty but it is honest.

Elk one was shot at 60 yards after I shot it first with a range finder. I shot from a solid rest and took my time in shooting after I had waited for a broadside shot. I have no doubts that my bullet impacted where I aimed. The result was a few pindrop sized blood splotches and a the rest of the day looking for blood and elk. neither was found. Time spent looking for the elk was over 7 hours The next day was started by shooting 2 three shot groups of under 2 inches cleaning the barrel between groups. 1st group was shot from uncleaned gun.

The same day my dad had like results with a shot from 40 yards. another full day spent looking for elk had the same results.

My 2nd elk was shot from a distance of 15 yards. I aimed for the spot just at the crease of its shoulder 2/3rds down from the back it too was broadside. The elk recoiled sideways and ran off. The results were nearly the same except I only found one spot of blood the size of my thumbnail. 3 hours that afternoon and 4 hours the next day revealed no elk. I ran into another hunter the next day and he reported seeing an elk with a wound low behind the shoulder at a slow run nearly 3/4 of mile away. It was healthy enough he could not get to it. again I checked the gun for acuracy

Elk 3 was shot at 40 yards broadside. After aiming behind the shoulder I changed my mind and shot it in the neck instead. One shot and the elk died in its tracks. It is my theory the bullets were coming apart on impact as the bullet was fragmented inside the neck and no exit wound sugested.

The next afternoon my father too conected with a neck shot from 50 yards and again the elk colapsed in its tracks.

Had we all taken neck or intentional backbone shots We would have left CO sucessful after 2 days hunting with high regards for our gun, powder, bullet combination. What I learned was that given advice make sure that it does not come from a single source and from a single kill. In truth I had advice from mutiple people on the same equipment but what I did not learn until I returned was that some of the people that had made the recomendations had also lost animals,made multiple shots on the same animal, or made less than perfect shots(such as head,neck,backbone)

My point is make sure your information is not limited to a biased and or single source.

2003 After further research and last years failures we change our setup to this: remington 700ml, hornady great plains 385 gr hb-hp, 85 grains of pyrodex as recomended by hornady.

I have a bull tag this time and it is a younger 5x5. The shot is from 20 yards and is a heart shot. The bull travels 40 yards and dies. bullet is found on the offside hide fully expanded and intact. My wife kills a cow one shot and a 100 yard bloodtrail.

2004 my wife and i are both sucesful on cows. Both are one shot kills after a short and adequate bloodtrail. Both shots are broadside under 50 yards and impact low behind the shoulder. We recover my wifes bullet on the offside hide. Mine was a passthrough.


2005 results a cow. one shot behind the shoulder. No tracking. same load and gun.

2006 I have a bull tag again and I shoot a 6x5. a low heart shot and the bull is dead within 100 yards after a sparse bloodtrail.

That is the extent of my sucess with that gun,powder,bullet combo. I am curious how much experience good or bad others have had with the bullets they are recomending. Including range,impact and angle of shot. If anyone is interested I can provide pictures of elk and bullets.
 
I looked up the webpage on the No Excuses bullets. I use a .54 caliber Remington black powder rifle. The 535 grain lead bullet is much heavier than the 405 Power Belt bullet I usually use in Colorado. Any opinions about this bullet used in a fifty four caliber smokepole rifle? Wonder about trajectory of this bullet at the standard 100 yard distance? It looks like it would have knockdown power being pure lead and with all of that weight. I am thinking of switching from the P.B. bullet to something else and am seeking different opinions from M.M. webpage. Thanks, Cowtag
 
Wind just curious if you were using aero tip bullets or hollowpoints?

Glad to hear you found a combination that worked well for you.
 
Viking,

I used the hollowpoints. After deciding on the powerbelts I was at a sportshow and talked with a cva rep. Acording to his advice and what was my understanding at the time was that balistically the areotip was the same as a hollow point. The difference being in areo dynamics. In otherwords upon impact the relatively soft areotip would disentegrate, basically turning it into a hollowpoint. Since Colorado limits me to open sights and my ability to shoot past 100 yards acurately with them I saw no benifit to using the areotips. Perhaps there would be a benifit if you were using a scope or if you were more acurate than me at greater distances. Despite my disapointment with what I beleive to be bullet failure I found the powerbelts to be very acurate out of the Remington muzzleloader. They were easy to load and the rifle was easy to clean. The great plains bullets that I switched to and that I am shooting now are slightly less acurate,harder to load, and the rifle in the end is harder to clean. However I would rather pack a bull out on my back for 7 hours than to wander around the mountain looking for blood dealing with the guilt of losing an animal.

windnface
 
Cowtag: Better check and see if the 535 grain is legal in Colorado. I know that the 495 in 50 caliber is not, but don't know about the big 54.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TXHunter, thanks for the tip. Is that because that the actual bullet cannot be longer than twice of that bullet's diameter? I just read about this the past few evenings on this venue. I was not aware of any such thing. I have 405 grain Power Belt for my .54 and also some of the Great Plains lead bullets that I used to use before the Power Belt became so POPULAR. Never tried the TC Maxiballs but plan on trying them. Any advice is welcomed. Thanks for your post. CowTag
 
I am looking for a different bullet for my trip to Colorado this September. I have used Power Belt 405 grain bullets for the past three or four years and I thought that they were pretty good. After reading on this forum about the P.B. becoming fragmented upon imppact with a shoulder bone, I am thinking of using something different this fall. The bullet has to be a conical and not a SABOT. I use a Remington 700 in .54 caliber. Will lower my powder charge of Triple 7 to 100 grains from the 110 that I usually use with the P.B. bullets. Anybody have a good combination of 777 and a conical bullet besides the PowerBelt for cow elk.
 
I will probably be using 100 grains of pyrodex with the T/C maxiball in 370 grain in my 50 caliber. The 430 grain in the 54 caliber is great elk medicine

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-07 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]Great writeup windnface. You are not the first to see those PB results. Glad you found something that works.

Sent you an email.
 
Windnface, I have a question. I have done a little research on the CVA site and the Powerbelt site and I cant find that the two IE--CVA Powerbelts bullets go together. So my question is, have I missed something or are you refering to CVA belted bullets or Powerbelt bullets. I just may not be able to find what I am looking for but have never seen a CVA Powerbelt bullet.

Mark
 
Mark,

The powerbelt bullets that I used were bought in 2002. I am not aware of any changes that ocured since then but I have several unopened packages left and they were marketed by CVA. I am not sure when the powerbelts first came on the scene but when I tried them they were relativly new. Chances are good that they were manufactured by someone else and used cva to market them. What may be more interesting to know however is this. If the powerbelt bullets were made/marketed by CVA in 2002 and that has since changed, Why? I know that the 3 of us complained directly to CVA via mail as well as CVA reps after our initial hunt. Could it be that CVA did not like all of the complaints they recieved? I personally know others that have complained to CVA as well. Perhaps someone else has a better answer than mine since mine is just speculation based on one season of personal experience. And maybe since I have crashed a motorcycle and wont be working for several more weeks I will try to find out more for myself.

windnface
 
OK I have shot the Barnes TMZ and while the groups are good I have decided to stick with the powerbelt. I don't like the way the barnes bullet loads - HARDDDD.

I am not going to change the load I have hunted with for 6 years. I am going to shoot the platinum .338 grain aerotips though. I was shooting those bullets at a 6" spinner (1/4" steel) target at 100yds and the near penetrations and bent up spinner was enough to remind me that the bullet will easily do its job as long as I do mine.
 
I shot a big bull last year with my muzzle loader. i used the power belt 345 grain out of the thompson and it worked great ran 20 yards and tipped over. the grouped well as well at a 100 yards
 
Well, I shot some Powerbelts today, I'm not too impressed. (Although they do load easy and group pretty good) I shot the .50 CAL 245 GRAIN/AEROTIP into the same 35 gallon water barrels as the Barnes. The Powerbelts would not penetrate the barrels at any angle. I do realize the Barnes TMZ I shot were 290 VS the 245PB so I need to get some heavier PB to try. I didn't Video this test but here are the pics of both. The PB both weighed 232gr after shooting and the Barnes weighed 290.

The first pic shows a Nickle on its side for a thickness referance.

Nickle.jpg


2321.jpg


2329.jpg


Barnes1.jpg


Barnes2.jpg
 
I used a 290 grain hollow point powerbelt, and droped my 6 point bull in his tracks, my buddy also used the same thing and got the same results, droped his 6x7 too.
 
.338 powerbelt platniums 130 grains of pyrodex pellets

Proud White Man !!!!!
M WAITE, AZ.
 

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