BH209 Illegal in New Mexico 2011

hntbambi · Dec 18, 2010

The new proc is out for and on page 6 it says:

"Muzzleloader
Includes rifles and shotguns in which the charge and projectile
are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex
or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless
powder, including ?Blackhorn 209? powder is illegal. Legal
muzzleloading shotguns are those capable of being fi red from
the shoulder only. Muzzleloaders may use in-line ignition,
pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets and scopes. See
Restricted Muzzleloader, next column."

This is crap. The Blackhorn 209 powder is a substitute just like Pyrodex and Triple 7. It is not a smokeless powder. If you agree that this is an error, be sure to contact NM G&F and let them know.

Here is contact info for G&F

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/department_info/documents/Directory.htm

tayhot · Dec 19, 2010

You have got to be kidding me. I need to check this out.

It makes more sense to me that they would ban pellets before they would ban BH209.

UngulateFoe · Dec 19, 2010

Daaammmmm this is huge. This is the only powder my muzzleloader likes....they will most definitely be getting a call from me..

The Beast is Dead, Long Live the Beast.

-The Nuge

crazyelk · Dec 20, 2010

Blackhorn 209 is not a smokeless powder. It's just another blackpowder substitute designed for the modern muzzleloaders that are legal in this state.

I am wondering why they are singling out one of the several varieties of blackpowder substitutes available today. I must admit based on extensive experience, in my opinion BH 209 is the best modern muzzloader blackpowder substitute. This is based on being able to shoot several shots without having to swab the barrel and get decent muzzleloading hunting accuracy. Also, being able remove the breech plug easily after a long range session makes the cleaing part a little funner too. In my opinion, these traits don't warrant restriction. BH 209 offers no advantages in velocity, convenience, and accuracy that can't be achieved with other BP substitutes out there.

Let us know what the NMGF say when you guys talk to them. I will call them too and get some answers. They need to tell me what advantages BH 209 has other BP substitutes to make it illegal.

I hope it's not to late.

AlleninNM · Dec 20, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-10 AT 01:39PM (MST)[p]Not that it should matter, but I was under the impression BH209 was a smokeless powder, with an additive to produce smoke. Not sure the distinction makes a difference.

The only benefits I have seen with BH209 is multiple shots without cleaning, easier cleaning and more accurate. Everything else that can be achieved with BH209 can also be achieved with other substitutes.

I agree with Crazyelk. The benefits of BH209 are no reason to exclude it from use during muzzleloader season. I could argue they are actually reasons BH209 use should be encouraged.

EDIT: I should say my impression of increased accuracy is due to the relatively consistent measurement that is possible with BH209. Pour 120 grains of Pyrodex into a tube and tap the sides. It will settle a little. Pour 120 grains of BH209 into a tube and tap the side. Little to no settling. To me, this means a more consistent charge from shot to shot.

NMChem · Dec 20, 2010

I have contacted Western Powders, Inc.

They are looking for support from New Mexico sportsmen and are considering legal action.

I put them in touch with a Santa Fe attorney that has litigation experience with Game and Fish, but if you know someone with unique qualifications contact Doug at [email protected].

Has anyone called and heard from Game and Fish on this nonsensical position?

Phantom Hunter · Dec 20, 2010

Just when I had worked up a BH209 load and had high hopes of a muzzy tag next year. Don't know what the Game and Fish guys are thinking. Hope this gets changed.

Phantom Hunter

Bullbreath · Dec 21, 2010

Wow, they really singled them out. I find it burns clean but does not produce anything most other powders are not capable of. I think they have a lawsuit of merit on there hands.

nm_alazan · Dec 21, 2010

As a muzzleoader amateur at best, I didn't know a thing about BH 209, so I did what any other uninformed person would do and googled it. The best I can tell, BH 209 is a smokeless powder (or at least contains elements of such) since it contains nitrocelluose; however it can be measured out volumetrically the same as black powder and contains some of the same compounds as other blackpowder substitutes. Apparently, it is illegal (or at least doesn't meet the blackpowder substitute requirements) in some other states as well and has already been banned from use in some competitions, so that may be a tough lawsuit to win.

Having said that, I agree the G&F should ban scopes on ML's before they ban a certain type of powder. I just can't bring myself to install a scope on my ML given that it's a "primitive" weapon. But, I also use pyrodex pellets and 209 primers, so I am just as hyprocritical as the rule makers I suppose......

TOPGUN · Dec 21, 2010

It would seem fairly obvious that the stuff must have smokeless powder as part of the ingredients or it wouldn't haven't been singled out for exclusion. I, myself, would also think that there could be other exclusions before going to the powder being used as a propellant. If it's a muzzleloader it would seem that anything that goes boom would be allowed if it has to be loaded down the barrel.

huntswnm · Dec 22, 2010

Even with all of this said, it is only going to keep the honest folks honest. I haven't had my tags checked by a game warden in years but it doesn't mean I don't buy them. If I did run into one during a muzzleloader hunt how are they going to determine that the powder under you bullet is anything but this stuff?? Ask you to pull your bullet? Can you tell by a visual inspection the difference between this and say 777 or Pyrodex? Sounds to me like it would be very easy for anyone who wants to use this stuff, regardless of the law, could easily "hide" it.

jeff

UngulateFoe · Dec 22, 2010

^ Thats a good point and was also the first thing that crossed my mind when I heard about this. To answer your question, yes, BH209 is visually distinct from other blackpowder substitutes. However, I doubt if you encounter a game warden in the field he will require you to pull your bullet. He'll probably just want to take a look at the stuff thats in your speedloader or whatnot. Again though, it will only keep honest folks honest as a guy here at work already plans to keep a stash of 777 to show the warden.

The Beast is Dead, Long Live the Beast.

-The Nuge

huntswnm · Dec 22, 2010

Yup....my point exactly.

jeff

hntbambi · Dec 24, 2010

One of the things against them is Hodgdon is spreading some bull crap about the powder. Since it is cutting into the Pyrodex and Triple 7 sales, they have been spreading BS to the states. I have had Pyrodex containers that said it is smokeless powder.

Here is a fact sheet for BH209

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sites/default/files/BLACKHORN 209 FACT SHEET-3.pdf

hank4elk · Dec 24, 2010

Looks to me like someone on the commission has alot of Hogden/Pyrodex stock. BH209 is great stuff and I'll continue to use it,let them check me...I never see a warden during season, at least not besides the local cafe anyway.... Bunch of BS!!

mickeyelk · Dec 24, 2010

BH 209 is diffently different in appearance than 777 or any if the others. Every tiny pellet particle is a small cylinder in itself. Unless the game warden is blind you'll be Ok. If you want to get by just load a speedloader and keep it apart from the rest that you'll be shooting if a warden checks. I believe they do have to right to have you unload your gun and inspect it. I use 209 and hope they fix this before I apply again. Good luck

m1fan · Dec 26, 2010

This is a bad law!

mozey · Dec 26, 2010

I'd be more pissed about this except that my TC Triumph consistently gets slightly better groups with 777 magnum pellets (shooting Barnes Spitfires and TC Shockwaves). I spent a lot of time shooting BH209 at the range and it sure cleans up nice. I'd be interested to see the official definition of "black powder substitute" because in my mind it definitely qualifies as that. So what if BH added an extra ingredient to make it smoke; anyone who shoots it can see that it's obviously not smokeless, so what's the problem?

Seems to me that NM G&F is unnecessarily splitting hairs here, and there's probably some sort of politics going on behind the scenes.

One of mozey's axioms: logic ends where politics begin...

Buglemin · Dec 27, 2010

Great news!!! I received a reply back to my email this morning from the NMG&F stating that BH209 is legal in NM, they stated they will issue a news release in the very near future......

nmmuley · Dec 27, 2010

Nice work to all that contacted NMDGF on this issue! BH209 shoots great in my CVA Accura and I wasnt looking forward to going back to Triple 7 or Pyrodex.