Bird Dog Training

4_Plesur · Nov 4, 2003

I haven't bought a pup yet but I kind of have my sights on a golden retriever, choc. lab, or a yellow lab (Needs to be a family dog as well). I was wondering if anyone knows any good websites that give instructions on how to raise your pup to be a good bird dog, or are there any schools in the Salt Lake area that I could check out.

Thanks for your help

4_Plesur

p.s. Would you reccommend one of my choices of dogs over the other?

uttrapper · Nov 4, 2003

i went to the libary the book i checked out was 15 minite retreves i think its been 3 years ago
the other opinon is a lab ive got 3 2 blacks 1 yellow
they will hunt amost anything

Joemama · Nov 4, 2003

I've got an awesome book but I can't remember what it is called. I lent it to Andymansavage. Ask him for the title.

ridgerunner · Nov 4, 2003

Go with the G.R. I've got one that is a great bird dog and a great family dog as well. You can't go wrong with labs either though. If you get a golden retriever try to find a field golden as opposed to a show golden. There aren't a whole lot of field goldens out there but they do tend to have stronger hunting instincts.

RuttCrazed · Nov 4, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-03 AT 01:40PM (MST)[p]Which birds are you going to hunt with this dog? I am partial to the pointing breeds (german shorthair, weims, brits, V's, etc). Many people think that pointing dogs are too hyper to be family dogs, but they are also the same people that take their dogs out of the kennel for 1 weekend a year. If you give any dog some daily exercise you will have an excellent family dog. My german shorthair is a house dog and an great bird dog. She spends every evening sleeping on my lap on the couch.
Here is a pic of her on point:

The only kennel I have ever heard anyone talk about in SLC that does bird dog training is Arrow Kennels.

Rut

Tuffbucker · Nov 4, 2003

It depends a lot on what kind of hunting you do most...waterfowl or upland game......for waterfowl I would strongly recommend labs or the retriever....upland game I prefer german shorthairs, V's and Weimerieners.....In my own humble opinion, labs are good as an all around dog, but if you want an excellent hunting dog, look into a breed that is more specific to the type of hunting you are going to be doing.

By the way.....any of the dogs listed above are GREAT family dogs....i have a chocolate lab/german shorthair mix that is the best family dog you could ask for. I also just rescued a lab/boxer puppy and a two year old yellow lab.

AntlerKing · Nov 4, 2003

I have this book (The Complete Guide to Bird Dog Training); it helped out tons with training. It goes through the training process and how to have a good bird dog and house dog. My Brother-In-Law used it as well. Great book, go check it out: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...9-5962263?no=283155&st=books&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

MichaelJ · Nov 4, 2003

Hey, this is an AWESOME sight, read through it very carefully and you will be suprised at how much you can understand on training bird dogs. http://www.uplandbirddog.com/
It's great, when I buy a dog, I'm going to get his book, and some other stuff.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome, right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

AndymanSavage · Nov 5, 2003

I bought my first bird dog 4 months ago. She's a silver weimeraner. She housetrained easily and is an inside dog. I am surprised at how calm she is indoors, especially around kids. Couldn't be happier with the breed. I haven't found a single shed hair in the house (a big selling point for me) and she points and retreives like a pro. Very pretty dog also. As far as training, gundog magazine is a good addition to any book collection.

Just my .02

ozstriker22 · Nov 5, 2003

AndyMann,

I too have been considering a hunting dog for upland game + housepet. I've been thinking about a springer spaniel. however, my wife is partial to weimeraners. I live in San Diego Ca. What should I look for, and how much should I expect to pay?

Thanks

Jesse

AndymanSavage · Nov 6, 2003

Jesse

We found our dog for $400 from a breeder in bluffdale UT. She has all of her documents and real good bloodlines. That was the cheapest we saw. To ship one in you could be looking at $700-$1000. When they first came to the US in numbers after WW2 they cost even more. As far as what to look for, check out www.weim.net they have alot of good links as well as breed info.
My wife wanted a dachshund and I wanted a lab, so we met in the middle with the weim and I'm glad we did.

tshuntin · Nov 6, 2003

4_ples, I would highly recommend a Lab. They can do anything as far as birds and still love to sleep at your feet while watching tv. I would first recommend seeking out a good breeder of dogs (in any breed). There are a ton of lab breeders in our area. Many of them should not be breeding at all. I would not buy a pup out of a breeding that did not have BOTH sire and dam OFA certified at least. You don't have to get the best field trial breeding out there, but health clearances are a must! I would suggest you search for a performance hunting, hunt test, or field trial breeding, but you don't have to spend $3,000 for a pup. I could direct you to some people that could help you for sure.

Also, I would highly recommend getting in a training group. There are a ton of talented dog people in the N. Utah area that would love to walk you along. You help them and they would be glad to help you. This time of year I hunt instead of train, but after the seasons are over I will train 3-4 days a week. People regularly train at the Lee Kay center in SLC and Willard Bay in Ogden and plenty of places in between. I am involved with the Weber River retriever Club and support all dog clubs in the area. We (The WRRC)have club training days, demonstrations, training seminars, etc.. and a bunch of people that are very willing to help newby's. We have all been there before.

If you have any questions on selecting a breeder, training, or anything else let me know. Travis Skeen
[email protected] Good Luck!

4_Plesur · Nov 6, 2003

Travis,
Hey, just of curiosity approximately how much does training cost out at LeeKay? I think that I'm set on getting a lab. My wife isn't too excited yet about a dog but she said if we do get one it has to be a lab. Great I'll take that for an answer. I'll probably get really serious about getting a pup in Feb. or March when my house is finished being built. If you know of some good people that are breeders and meet the qualifications that you mentioned, shoot me an email and I'll give them a call.
Thanks everyone for all your help!!

schmalts · Nov 6, 2003

everyone has their own opinion on what dog is best and it usually tends to be what they have at home. All i can say is the Lab is the countries most popular dog, and for reason not needed to explain. Be careful to choose what you want, for what you need it for. If you hunt waterfowl at all its a slam dunk with the lab, and these flushers are awsome for upland birds too. If you are hunting birds that will actually hold tight a pointer is nice but in my neck of the woods a pointer is a poor choice because the birds i hunt do not hold well enough to make a pointer worth having over a flushers personality.

mengland · Nov 7, 2003

Well To begin, I no nothing about books, for training retrievers. But I have two wonderful labs with awesome pedigrees. I have a yellow female that is 3 1/2 years old and had 1 litter of pups and the next litter is coming in a week or so and should be ready around christmas. I also have a black male that is two years old and has done some damage on blue quail, gambels quail, and has caught 4 pheasants before they flushed. He is super fast and loves kids. We are in New Mexico so if you are interested I know people who travel back and forth from Logan utah and they have two of my dogs now but just as family pets.

tshuntin · Nov 7, 2003

4 ples, You can train out to Lee Kay for free other than buying a gate key for 5-10 bucks for the year. There are a ton of people you could hook up with to meet out there. When you start to get ready for a pup get with me and I can refer you to a few people.

As far as training material. You may want to get a book or two and start studying up so you are ready for basic things when he-she comes. If you follow a GOOD training program, training you dog is much easier. You will do something today that will make the next steps a ton easier. There is a reason that many of the best pros in the country follow very similar programs. They work, bottom line!! Even if it is just a hunting and family dog, a good training program can save you so many headaches down the road. I can't stress that enough. Many people will half-a$$ training there dog, but wonder why it won't do what they tell it to. My dogs are far from perfect and I am no pro, but I try to get us to our full potential. I don't ask anything out of my dogs that I don't feel they are capable of doing but, they are capable of a lot.

I would go to www.rushcreekpress.com and order at least the volume 1 training manual. They are written by Evan Graham who is a former pro trainer. They are easy to read and very explanatory. Others I like are Mike Lardy's training articles. They are a few others that I have heard of that are pretty good too. I would start with the Smartworks volume 1 and go from there. Don't hesitate to get with me for any questions. Travis

etoh · Nov 8, 2003

Somebody needs to mention Wolters; Water Dog, Bird Dog, etc. Easy reading and very effective, especially if your not fond of shock collars. Classics. He points out that if you buy a chocolate or yellow lab make sure that there are also blacks in the litter. I have a black lab who is upstairs right now sleeping with our 11 year old. Yesterday she flushed and retrieved three roosters and retreived three ducks. Its much easier to take a retriever pheasant hunting than it is to put a pointer in a duck blind. You might also think about where you will be hunting. Goldens are beautiful dogs but I'd hate to pull burs out of that coat. Have fun.

tshuntin · Nov 8, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-03 AT 03:29PM (MST)[p]etoh, I agree with much of what you said. However I am not a big fan of wolters. It is very very outdated (although I have read water dog probably 15 times cover to cover). Many of his methods are becoming absolete due to the ever changing world of retriever training. I also am a very big fan of training collars when used correctly. You can't just shock the hell out of a dog and expect perfect performance. It is a process and procedure for correct usage.

The statement of buying a yellow or choc pup only from a litter with blacks in it is also very outdated thinking. You could have a breeding that is multi color factored and by luck not end up with what you expected. (ie: end up with only yellows when a certain % could/should have been black.) Genetically color doesn't mean crap as far as how they will turn out within a litter/s. Blacks have had more succes in hunt tests and field trials over the years because simply there are a ton more blacks competing than there are chocolates or yellows. In turn there are a lot more high quality breedings from blacks than the others. TS
You sure are right about having to pull burrs out of a Golden. Nightmare.

BlackTimber · Nov 9, 2003

Wolters even though is outdated is still a decent book especialy for the first time trainer and for someone that just wants a dog to retrieve ducks and rest his head on your feet while watching the tube. That said I would suggest to NOT go by wolters time table (if you do get his book) it is much to fast. Spend about 10 times longer on Basic Obeidience then you think you should. Obeidience is the base/foundation for all training, make it a solid one.

The other book I would suggest is 10 minute retriever by John and Amy Dahl.

Like Travis said color doesn't mean squat so long as you buy a Black one.