Broadhead Wobble HELP!!!

[3Rayz]

Hey guys I need help with my set up. I'm shooting G5 Striker on a 28" Carbon Xpress Maxima Hunter 350 and a nockturnal nock. All I've done is get the head aligned with the fletchings and then when I spin the arrow on my Apple arrow spin tester I get a wobble at the tip on the head. The arrow spins fine on the tester, but I can see the head has a wobble to it. Does the same with other arrows and heads of the same brands. What can I do to fix this, or is it not enough to worry about?

 

[southslope82]

I would try adjusting the broad head around to different alignments. I don't think that will do anything just an idea. From my understanding the blade to fletching alignment has not impact on your shot. I think maybe you ought to try a different arrow. For example I know that gold tip has different series of arrows with different straightness measurement of course the straighter they are the higher the cost. Thats if all else fails.

That sounds like an odd issue


Maybe check out your spin tester good luck

 

[GotBowAz]

This sounds to me more like the face of your arrow surface that contacts the face of your Broadhead surface is not flat. If it's off even so much as 0.001 thousands of an inch or maybe even less it will cause Broadhead wobble. This might be on the arrow itself or the BH surface. It could also be a out of concentric ( or slightly bent ) stem on the broadhead. Have you tried other heads or arrow shafts?? Aligning BH with fletches will not help in arrow flight unless it just happen to be the sweet spot of the arrow spine. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

GBA

 

[AZWALKER]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-01-11 AT 07:26AM (MST)[p]I would go buy a different brand but similar style broadhead and check them. Sounds like a broadhead issue to me. The only other thing I can think of is an insert issue but for all of them to do it the same way... sounds like molding issues at G5. 3 broadheads are cheaper to replace than 12 arrows!

Is it something to worry about... you're call. I know I have a sever case of OCD when it comes to my archery equipment. Bowhunting is hard enough without imperfect equipment. I wouldn't let it go because it'll be stuck in the back of your head and pop up at the wrond moment. Confidence is a huge part of bowhunting.


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[MuleyMinor]

Have you squared all your shafts?? If so you could have a bent insert?

 

[BOHNTR]

Most of the time it's caused by improperly cut shafts (not square) or defective inserts. Take the same broadhead and put it on another arrow and spin it.....it it's true it should spin well on another shaft. If it has the same wobble, then time to shoot a different broadhead, IMO.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[dingo]

If that broadhead spins true on another arrow then it is your insert. I would use a different arrow for when it counts but you may be able to salvage the arrow. If the runout is small enough you can put pressure on the broadhead and "bend" an aluminun insert enough to correct it. (Your not really bending it but rather deforming the softer aluminum to get a satisfactory result.)

I put a piece of cardboard in front of the tip of the broadhead and then spin it. You will get a little circle on the cardboard that represents the radius of how much your runout is. I pull the blades out of the broadhead and then put pressure on the tip on the "high side" and recheck until the tip spins true.

This is to correct your current problem. The bigger issue is insuring that you get the insert perfectly aligned when you first glue them in. That has already been well covered.

Good luck and good shooting!

 

[ARROWHNTR]

+1 Dingo hit the nail on the head. Its usually caused by machining issues in the broadhead or insert or both. Doing exactly as he says while applying pressure to the high side is the correct way to tune a broadhead to the insert. I do this with all of mine until they all spin perfect.

Is it somthing to worry about? Yes difinatly if a broadhead wobbles on your arrow it will cause the arrow to fly poorly and impact a different spot.

Here is a write up on the Gold Tip website about this very issue, this information is true with any broadhead or arrow combination.

http://www.goldtip.com/arrowperformance.aspx?coid=14

 

[Cahunter805]

All great advice so far. Just curious did you cut the shafts and square them? Or did a shop? My arrows are squared twice. Once after inital cut and then square the face of the insert after install.

 

[westelkman]

Rare to see a quality head thats crooked, most companies spin check them for straightness.

A couple of guys hit on it- its improper arrow assembly; insert is crooked, arrow and/or insert not squared or its just a crummy arrow to begin with.

Is it a big deal....well only if you want to hit where you are aiming.

While spinning and arrow the wobble goes away at about .004"- not good enough for perfect BH flight. I've played with my perfect [.002"] arrows shooting them blind vs. some .004" and there is much less consistency with the BH tipped arrows that are even a bit out.

A squaring jig is essential- G5 makes one or you can make a longer one like I did.

Consensus among experts;
1.Cut both ends of shaft to length [avoids runout- lopsided inner hole]
2. Square both ends on a jig, arrow cutoff saw leaves frayed ends and not a perfect square cut
3. install noks, fletch
4. install inserts- buy the long inserts- better
5. Recheck insert end on jig
6. Spin check BH tipped arrows
7. shoot for groups

After all that, if you get one that doesn't group, its spine inconsistency. Turn nok 1/4 turn and refletch. Some guys float their arrows to check spine- I'm skeptical.

 

[dingo]

Westelkman-
Great checklist. I know it probably goes without saying but I also weigh each arrow so they are all the same. A heavy one will shoot low, light high.

When you hit that release, the string applies a force on the back of the arrow. The back starts moving before the front. The arrow is now put into compression and it will buckle/flex under the stress. By determining the weak side, you will know which way that particular arrow will buckle/flex every time and by aligning all of the nocks accordingly, all your arrows will buckle/flex the same direction. I have noticed that over time, my arrows will break down and the weak side might become more obvious in a more uniform arrow, or more pronounced as the weak side becomes weaker. Bottom line is that you need to figure out what each arrow is going to do and then make them all match.

I always check my arrows for spine weakness and do so by using a sophisticated measuring apparatus,(sma). In a perfect world the wall thickness of the shaft would be uniform around the entire circumfrence of the shaft over the entire length of the shaft which would yield a consistant modulus of elasticity for the entire material. (This would also equate to $$$.) Since I cannot afford perfection, I have to settle for something a little less consistant. Revealing the imperfections (weak spine) in a cheap and reliable way so I can insure that the defective sides are aligned the same way is where I bust out my sma. It's cheap, portable, and works in any kind of weather.

My sma consists of a key-ring ring, a concrete stake, and a couple of lawn chairs. I spread the two chairs so that the ends of the arrow shaft is supported on the armrests. The armrests have about a 3-degree angle. (Very ergonomic). I slip the ring with the attached weight to the center of the arrow and let it roll down the armrests. The arrow will belly out and stop if there is a weak side to the arrow. The weak side is the one facing up. I mark the bottom of the belly and that becomes the top of my arrow (strong side up). Up or down isn't as critical as uniformity. A good arrow will roll all the way down with little or no deviation. I am sure that there are more sophisticated ways of determining spine weakness, (but that would cost money I could use to buy more arrows) and I get good results from doing it this way.

Floating an arrow to determine a weak side relies on the fact that water is frictionless and that the thickest/heaviest part of the arrow will roll to the bottom and the thinnest/lightest will align itself to the top. If the arrow was perfectly straight then this would be a very accurate and reliable method. But I already know that my arrows are not that straight and they would tend to float with the curve aligned parallel to the surface of the water. (Try to picture how a longbow would float). I could determine straightness, but not neccessairly the weakest part of the arrow.

Just some of the stuff I think about when I'm sittin' in my stand or glassin' for deer.

 

[GotBowAz]

Pretty cool method dingo, I like it. Some real solid information here from everyone. Good stuff!! Thanks for offering up your tips.

GBA

 

[AZWALKER]

"Does the same with other arrows and heads of the same brands."

This is what tips me off to the fact that its the broadheads. Especially since the ones you have are molded.

How many arrows are you spin testing? Who cut them and put the inserts in?

If your arrows do not have hidden insterts (not familiar with those arrows) its possible that the inserts aren't true but for every one of them not to be true doesn't add up.

If you do the cardboard test (great idea BTW) and get the same circles on all combinations of arrow and broadhead, it would seem to me that your broadheads are the issue. Different size circles would tell me its an arrow/insert issue.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[dingo]

One other thing I thought would be good to pass along is that along with squaring up your cut it is important to clean the inside of your shafts before gluing your inserts. There are many good tools available to do this. It is important is for two reasons.

The first and most important reason is because you want to remove any release agents left behind in the fabrication process. Carbon fiber (CF) tube can be formed around a mandrel or by extrusion followed by a rapid cure. I believe that all of the arrows are manufactured using the mandrel method. In the mandrel method, the mandrel is first coated with a release agent so that after the tubing has cured, it doesn't bond to the mandrel. Residual release agent left inside of the tube will cause your epoxy/glue to release from the shaft and your insert will spin, (your joint will fail). A good indicater of the presence of a release agent is by using a really expensive test agent called dihydrogen monoxide. Or you could put a drop of water on the shaft. If it beads up, there are agents/oils on the surface. If it wets up and lays down over the surface, it is ok. You can remove the contaminates by brushing or lightly sanding. You shouldn't have to test every single arrow but it is something you can do to verify that what you are doing is acutally something important. Be sure to dry everything out with a heat gun or a hair dryer before you start gluing.

The second reason is to rough up the surface and provide micro-abrasions for the adhesive to "bite" into. A smooth surface has a lower shear value then a rough surface. The small scratches also increase the surface area which increases the strength of the joint.

I also lightly sand the insert to remove heavy oxidation from the surface of the aluminum and increase the surface area of the joint.

Remember that it is also very important not to introduce contaminates to the surfaces as this will reduce the joint strength. Your hands contain oils that are present even if you wash well with soap and water. If you touch that insert with your hands you just weakened your joint. Use latex gloves during the whole process to prevent contamination, it will also make clean-up a breeze. Remove the sanding dust using a q-tip. Do not use isopropal alcohol as it contains oils, use 91% or higher alcohol, (that would translate to 182 proof for some of you). I use a q-tip and acetone to remove oils, both residual and from my hands. I use these procedures for inserts as well a fletching.

Obviously most of this seems like overkill and you are probably right. You can touch an insert, glue it straight into the shaft, skip the cleaning steps, glue it with elmer's, and still have satisfactory results......ie. dead critters. And it is nothing new, the steps are pubished everywhere. The reasons for doing some of these things are not always stated. I just thought I would pass along what I know to help some of you become better archers the same way it has helped me.

Good luck and good shooting!

 

[BigPig]

Pretty common with Strikers once they went to that dual washer design. Never understood that. Try switching out the washers.

 

[MtnManCH]

G5 makes a tool called the A.S.D. Tool. this device is made specifically to grind the end of the insert or shaft down to a perfect 90 after being cut. this is what I use with every kind of tip even practice tips. After I've done this step I don't even worry about sighting in my broadheads at all. Aligning the blades with the vanes is just and unnecessary conspiracy.

 

[WHT_MTNMAN]

Striker has been one of my go to BH, but I've had to pick through a few of them before I get them all to spin correct. Today I got 3 different packages of VPA and put one of each on arrows, all 3 spin tested nearly perfect. I'm going to start sounding like BigPig, but the machined BH has me sold, excited to see what this year brings.