Building a Rifle??

ICMDEER · Nov 13, 2013

MM friends,

I'm pondering building a new muzz rifle. What I'd really like is a 40 caliber with a long barrel. It's got to use full-diameter bullets because of Colorado. And open sights; likely a tang/peep set-up.

Here's what I am thinking about doing:

Buy a used 50 caliber muzz with a 209 in-line ignition.
Put a LONG - maybe 36" barrel on it.
Get one of the custom bullet mold guys to make me a mold for a 40 caliber bullet that is as light and efficient as possible.

What are your thoughts? I know that most guys here shoot the 91's for distance, but most of you also shoot elk. I'm a deer only guy and have three 50's I can use for elk. I feel like a 40 will be more efficient and better for the places I'll go deer hunting. I want something that will allow me to stretch it as far as possible for above timberline bucks in the early season.

No need to be too critical, but please let me know your thoughts. I realize I might be chasing a rainbow, but it is worth considering. Wish Thor and Hornady would make 40 caliber bullets, or even 45's would help.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Jim

Idahoron · Nov 13, 2013

I think light 40 cal is not enough. Why light as possible your going to lose penetration with a very light bullet. I went the other way. I use heavy bullets for the 45 or the 50. if you use the right sighting system all you need is a range finder to tell you the distance and dial it in. I use a 409 gr bullet in my 45 and they lay the law down on deer. Ron

ICMDEER · Nov 13, 2013

Thanks, Ron. I'm aware you know exactly what you are doing. My thought is that if the bullet is flatter shooting, there's less margin for error. Or put another way, I don't have to be so precise. I've shot some deer with a muzz and have never used more than 300 grains. But I know where you are coming from.

Talked with a custom bullet mold guy today that also shoots competitively. He says don't use less than 350 grains even in a 40 caliber.

So I might be going after something that's not worth doing. But it makes sense to me, so thought I'd look into it.

This is a process and I hope others will let me know their thoughts.

Thanks again.

cannonball · Nov 13, 2013

I've seen a lot of hunters who use a 45 cal. ML shooting a 38 slug sabot. Most of the ones I've seen are very flat shooting and accurate. Keep the bullet grains up and enough powder to push it and you should have a deer harvesting machine. That is providing you are capable of the shot.

ICMDEER · Nov 14, 2013

That's an option in many states, but not in Colorado. Gotta have full diameter bullets there; no sabots.

Thanks though.

sjhgraysage · Nov 14, 2013

Its your project so make your self happy

What about getting a .458 barrel and planning on using Barnes .458 x bullets? They have them from 300 grns up to 500 grns. You could easily anneal the bullets to make them softer to open up at muzzleloader speeds. If they were a bit loose you can knurl them up in diameter with a couple files and put a felt wad under them. You could probably shoot Blackhorn 209 powder using knurled bullets and wads if you had a gun using shotshell primers for ignition.
If you are going to use percussion caps you will need to use black powder or pyrodex or T-7.
Best of luck!

cannonball · Nov 14, 2013

>That's an option in many states,
>but not in Colorado.
>Gotta have full diameter bullets
>there; no sabots.
>
>Thanks though.

That was not my meaning. I was only saying that if a 38 cal. slug is big enough for a deer a 40 cal. slug would also be big enough.

Idahoron · Nov 14, 2013

I have a Renegade with a 458 barrel. Ron

bragabit · Nov 15, 2013

I am not positive on this, but I think you have to use a .45 caliber bullet in Colorado for deer. I have also toyed with the idea of shooting the Barnes .451 bullets out of my Knight 45 with out a sabbot. Also the Nosler ballistic tip 45/70 300gr ballistic tip. Idahoron I would like to hear more on your paper patch technique.

Idahoron · Nov 15, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-13 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]I have a lot of info on it all over the web. You can read more here. Ron

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?71134-part-1-paper-patching-the-ML

Since I wrote this I have found a couple of .446 moulds for my 45's. They work fantastic. I shot my deer this year with a RCBS 11mm rifle bullet paper patched. Ron

cannonball · Nov 15, 2013

I believe 40 cal. is legal in Colorado for deer.

ICMDEER · Nov 16, 2013

That's what the book says.

I'm thinking I'll get a 40 caliber barrel lined into a 50 caliber inline, then either rough up the bullets and use a wad or something similar, or maybe have get custom dies and swage the bullets; make them custom for my rifle.

But any other ideas would sure be welcome.

Thanks.

cannonball · Nov 17, 2013

One thing that might or might not have a bearing in your decision and may or may not be fact is this: I was told that the bullet cannot be longer than twice the length of width.

Interesting!

ICMDEER · Nov 17, 2013

From what I understand, it used to be that way but has been changed. I'll definitely check it again, though.

Thanks

bragabit · Dec 5, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-13 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]Idahoron, 1 more quick question. I am looking at just buying cast bullets that are made for paper patching from Montana swaging, or Buffalo arms. Is it more effective to buy a little big, or a little small and resizing after paper patching? I am shooting at Knight .45. Buffalo arms has .438,.441,.442.444. My barrel is .451.
Thanks

Idahoron · Dec 5, 2013

The size your most likely going to need is .446 bullets if your using 9# onion skin that is .0025" thick. If your paper is thicker your going to need either smaller bullets, or size them. My bullets are .446 and I wrap two wraps of 9# onion skin. I size them back to .446 and they are ready to shoot. They are a bit loose but I haven't had any trouble with them. I would rather size them to .448 or .449 and they would fit a pinch tighter. If your bullets are .446 you might try wrapping them and shooting them as wrapped. Ron