Bullet type

Mooretitan

Active Member
Messages
133
My son drew a Utah youth elk tag and I am trying to decide between 140grain Berger or 127grain Barnes LRX out a 6.5 creed. Both shoot sub moa.
I am leaning towards the LRX with the thought it will hold up to hitting bone.
Anyone have any experience
 

littlebighorn

Long Time Member
Messages
4,128
Plenty of people swear by Bergers, but I've never killed anything with one, so I'm not a good judge of them. I will say, elk are big boned animals and I've killed several with a heavier Barnes. The Creedmoor is light elk medicine so make sure he knows his limits. Regardless, It should be a fun time! Congratulations.
 

Stubaby

Very Active Member
Messages
1,460
143 Hornady ELDX. I’ve seen 14 elk go down in the last three years with this bullet. None of them went more than 40 yards. Shot placement and confidence and shot placement and practice and shot placement are paramount. Shot placement is also very important.
 

Mooretitan

Active Member
Messages
133
6.5 creed might be a little light for some but it’s what we have for him right now and he shoots it well. He is really small for a 13 year old. Think smallest kid you have seen small 70lbs. But he is tough and can walk almost anyone into the ground. He shoots my 260 just fine along with his 6.5 but the next step up for us would be 30-06 and bigger which he is not ready for. So we are going to roll with his 6.5, plus he is left handed and handles his better than my right handed guns.
I am pretty sure a solid copper LRX can do the job inside 300yards. The Berger would work great on a prefect lung shot just worried about hitting big bone with it.
Thanks
 

Focoelkman

Active Member
Messages
308
Neither choice. 127 seems way too light? I would look to, as said above, shooting the nosler partition. And it looks like they would have that in 140 gr which would be better than lighter in my opinion.
Listen to the wise words of Stubaby.
 

Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,214
I've shot lots of elk (12) with the Barnes 168 in a 30 cal mag (previously used the Barnes 180 and killed a traincar load of elk with them). Yes, my 168 is light for caliber but Barnes penetrate "way bigger" than they are.

Lots of good, valid suggestions but damn sure the 127 Barnes in a Creedmoor will work just fine with a properly placed shot. Of all the bullets mentioned, the Barnes is best at penetration and guaranteed to get into the boiler room.

Zeke
 

BIGJOHNT

Long Time Member
Messages
4,939
My daughter used the Barnes 130 grain TTSX in here 270 for her youth elk hunt last year. It worked perfect at just under 50 yards. If you are already shooting it and the guns likes them i second what Zeke says. I shoot the 168 grain TTSX in my 300 Tejas. Never a problem. Nosler Partitions are are also a great tried and trued bullet. But my gun separates the core from the outer shell. So I stick with the Barnes it doesn't come apart ! Good luck on your hunt !
 

dogdoc

Active Member
Messages
340
+1 for the Barnes, deep penetrating and tough. That's all I have shot for the past 10+ years. Deer, Elk, Moose, Sheep, and Antelope.
 

Buckjunkie

Active Member
Messages
275
127g LRX for sure. Don’t trust the thin skinned bullets on elk. I too have shot lots of elk and been there when many more were taken. Only bad experiences have come from Berger bombs, ELDX, Sierra Game Kings and Nosler ballistic tips.

Stick with monolithic bullets, bonded bullets or partitions. Go heavy for caliber with lead bullets. Barnes bullets should be light for Caliber.

127 for the 6.5 is ok as long as you don’t shoot too far. Make sure the velocity is 2000+ FPS on impact.
 

LDFR

New Member
Messages
2
not knocking any one else’s reply but from someone who has killed elk my experience is this : berger bullets put game down fast. Some meat damage but they don’t limp away. That is 150 gr 270 wsm. Also, federal power shok 130 gr .270 and 100 gr. .243 will kill them just as good. Once again, my experience. Elk are elk, might take more than one shot but keep shooting and they will fall. They are not bullet proof as some people will lead you to believe.
 

chicken77

Member
Messages
64
Has anyone mentioned Accubonds? ;)
They are a great bullet for elk, in my opinion.
One other thing that I would practice is a quick follow up shot or maybe two or three in a row, I don't think that many people practice quick firing a rifle. Also, I would have him practice off hand shots, up close, say less than 30 yards. It can be very difficult to acquire your target in the scope that close and practicing that could make the difference between a 30 yard tracking job and 3 mile tracking job.
 

Mooretitan

Active Member
Messages
133
Thanks for all the advice. We will burn some powder this Thursday. I told him no more shooting off the bench anymore. We will just work on field positions. We will burn a lot of powder between now and then.
pros and cons to each bullet
After a few more range sessions I am sure we will have it narrowed down
Thanks
 

Elkasaurous

Member
Messages
61
Berger bullets are not really premium hunting bullets. Pretty much a thin jacketed target bullet. Not sure if you will generate enough velocity to get much penetration or expansion with the Barnes. Barnes are great bullets but I would agree with most everyone above and recommend the Partition.
 

k22hornet

Member
Messages
99
I'm a Barnes fan, been using them exclusively since 1992, out of a 243, 270win and 30-06, starting with the orignal X, then XLC, TSX and TTSX.

They work, and very well at that.

Bullet construction is important. Look at it this way: you are about to get hit in the side of the head with 2 objects that weigh the same, with the same impact velocity, so now you have the same Ft.Lbs. of energy hitting you.

One object is a raw chicken egg and the other is a golf ball.

What do you want to get hit with?

Barnes are like the golf ball.

As to bullet weight, consider this: there are 437.5 grains in an ounce. Can a 600lb elk tell the difference between a 120gr and 130gr? 1/40th of an ounce? Heck, a dime weighs 35grains.
 

Jerry

Active Member
Messages
287
I'm a Barnes fan, been using them exclusively since 1992, out of a 243, 270win and 30-06, starting with the orignal X, then XLC, TSX and TTSX.

They work, and very well at that.

Bullet construction is important. Look at it this way: you are about to get hit in the side of the head with 2 objects that weigh the same, with the same impact velocity, so now you have the same Ft.Lbs. of energy hitting you.

One object is a raw chicken egg and the other is a golf ball.

What do you want to get hit with?
Nosler partition, tied and true for decades.
Nosler partition, tied and true for decades.


Barnes are like the golf ball.

As to bullet weight, consider this: there are 437.5 grains in an ounce. Can a 600lb elk tell the difference between a 120gr and 130gr? 1/40th of an ounce? Heck, a dime weighs 35grains.
Nosler Partitions lead the way & never ever failed me. They are my number one game bullet last 50 plus years. Stake your life on them !! Jerry Gold 🍀 Fort Collins, Colorado
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,862
I'm a Barnes fan, been using them exclusively since 1992, out of a 243, 270win and 30-06, starting with the orignal X, then XLC, TSX and TTSX.

They work, and very well at that.

Bullet construction is important. Look at it this way: you are about to get hit in the side of the head with 2 objects that weigh the same, with the same impact velocity, so now you have the same Ft.Lbs. of energy hitting you.

One object is a raw chicken egg and the other is a golf ball.

What do you want to get hit with?

Barnes are like the golf ball.

As to bullet weight, consider this: there are 437.5 grains in an ounce. Can a 600lb elk tell the difference between a 120gr and 130gr? 1/40th of an ounce? Heck, a dime weighs 35grains.

Just curious how many animals you have killed with a Berger Bullet?
Also a Berger would be more like a Hard Boiled egg!😁
 

k22hornet

Member
Messages
99
Just curious how many animals you have killed with a Berger Bullet?
Also a Berger would be more like a Hard Boiled egg!😁

Not a one.

From other's description's, a Berger sounds more like a raw egg, a Partition/Accubond/TBBC, etc, are more like hard boiled eggs, lol.

When I started big game hunting, I used a Partition. They always worked well.

I was reading an article in Precision Reloader way back in Feb 1992, and the author was testing various bullets using 223 rifles, including a 10" TC.

What caught my attention was when he shot the new Barnes, 45gr X bullet out of the 10" TC, getting 2,600fps. He shot into ballistic gelatin at 100yds, and each time a Barnes X hit the 10lb block, the block would expand so violently it would knock the other block off the table. No other bullet, at any speed, did that. After the 4th time, the author separated the blocks even more.

I had been using my 22Hornet for coyotes for about 3 years, and was getting a number of floppers and runners and, prior to Lilgun powder, it got about 2,600fps with a 45gr bullet.

After loading the 45gr X in my Hornet, I had a noticeable reduction in runners and floppers, with more 'bang-flops' than other bullets.

I was impressed enough that I used the 140gr X in my 270win that fall, on a cow elk. Shot was quartering towards me, range about 175yds, impact behind her left shoulder, exit behind her right hip. 6-8 steps and she is down. What is that, 4-5 feet?

I never had that penetration from a Partition, and I had been using only Partitions since my first big game hunt in 1970.

Since I started with Barnes in 1992, I have never recovered a bullet out of a big game animal. I had a chance once, when a buddy used an 85Gr TSX out of his Tikka 243 on a nice Mule Deer buck.

The shot, only one, was about 150yds, facing us, and just dropped at the impact. I did find the bullet went through the right lung, and I found bullet holes in the intestines. My buddy was going to use a hatchet to get though the ribs, and on the first strike, he whacks his left thumb, so as you can imagine, I did not have time to search through the intestines for the bullet.

He kept his thumb, and it works pretty good.
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,862
Not a one.

From other's description's, a Berger sounds more like a raw egg, a Partition/Accubond/TBBC, etc, are more like hard boiled eggs, lol.

When I started big game hunting, I used a Partition. They always worked well.

I was reading an article in Precision Reloader way back in Feb 1992, and the author was testing various bullets using 223 rifles, including a 10" TC.

What caught my attention was when he shot the new Barnes, 45gr X bullet out of the 10" TC, getting 2,600fps. He shot into ballistic gelatin at 100yds, and each time a Barnes X hit the 10lb block, the block would expand so violently it would knock the other block off the table. No other bullet, at any speed, did that. After the 4th time, the author separated the blocks even more.

I had been using my 22Hornet for coyotes for about 3 years, and was getting a number of floppers and runners and, prior to Lilgun powder, it got about 2,600fps with a 45gr bullet.

After loading the 45gr X in my Hornet, I had a noticeable reduction in runners and floppers, with more 'bang-flops' than other bullets.

I was impressed enough that I used the 140gr X in my 270win that fall, on a cow elk. Shot was quartering towards me, range about 175yds, impact behind her left shoulder, exit behind her right hip. 6-8 steps and she is down. What is that, 4-5 feet?

I never had that penetration from a Partition, and I had been using only Partitions since my first big game hunt in 1970.

Since I started with Barnes in 1992, I have never recovered a bullet out of a big game animal. I had a chance once, when a buddy used an 85Gr TSX out of his Tikka 243 on a nice Mule Deer buck.

The shot, only one, was about 150yds, facing us, and just dropped at the impact. I did find the bullet went through the right lung, and I found bullet holes in the intestines. My buddy was going to use a hatchet to get though the ribs, and on the first strike, he whacks his left thumb, so as you can imagine, I did not have time to search through the intestines for the bullet.

He kept his thumb, and it works pretty good.

So you have never used said bullet but make recommendations about it.
To each their own opinions and bullet choices.

I have used plenty of Barnes bullets and while they do penetrate a lot they aren’t my choice as I like a bullet that causes massive tissue damage and disruption.
If wanting a Mono bullet I’d recommend trying some Hammer bullets also.
This link is a good read about Berger vs Barnes if anyone is interested.
 

Mooretitan

Active Member
Messages
133
Thanks for the read. I am pretty up to date on bullet construction. I think a VLD on a broad side shot into the lunges is some bad medicine for anything it hits. But on the off chance the shot selection is not prefect I will probably lean towards a different bullet that can hold together and break bone. The good thing is both POI are the same for the 140 Berger’s and 127LRX put to 200. If I can find some partitions I might load up a few and see
But for now I feel pretty good about the Barnes.
I have shot a lot of pigs and deer with them and the have done the job pretty well. Not getting bang flops that everyone talks about but less that a 100 yards and dead.
Now shot selection. Would you take a high shoulder to break bone and put the animal down or a boiler room shot.
thanks
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,862
I shoot for Vitals on all animals. Tight behind the shoulder if possible. I’ve broken more than a few bones with Berger’s also.
The 127LRX isn’t a bad bullet either. Have you tried any Hammers?
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,284
I'll never use a Berger on game ever again. Bought my first ones in 2006. Quickly moved on. The Accubond is a solid bullet, and Hammers are impressing me. Don't be afraid of the lighter weight monos. mtmuley
 

k22hornet

Member
Messages
99
"So you have never used said bullet but make recommendations about it. "

Well, no, I have never made a recommendation about Bergers, either way. How could I? I've never used them, and have stated so.

From what others who have used Bergers have written, the Berger appears to be a soft bullet, and works very well when you get some distance between you and the game, and if you stay off heavy bone.

Has any Berger user on here had a shot through the shoulders on an elk at, say 50yds?
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,862
I can’t seem to find the other test but here is one by a buddy in his 6.5. I’ve also personally seen what a 230gr Berger does to elk bones at about 100 yards and watched the elk bounce off the ground stoned dead.
If a person is purposely shooting heavy boned big game in the shoulders a mono would be a good choice as well.
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,284
I guess I need to try some of these different bullets. I've shot 5 elk with basic 150 grain Core Lokt bullets out of my .270 over the years. The elk always went down...
There's no way you did that. The internet says different about Core-Lokts. I killed a few elk with them myself before I read they don't work. Seems like Berger shooters always go out of their way to defend criticism of the bullet. mtmuley :)
 
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Hunt_the_West

Active Member
Messages
321
I'll never use a Berger on game ever again. Bought my first ones in 2006. Quickly moved on. The Accubond is a solid bullet, and Hammers are impressing me. Don't be afraid of the lighter weight monos. mtmuley

curious what your bad experience was with the Berger? I’ve been contemplating trying the hammer mono’s as well.
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,862
Seems like Berger shooters always go out of their way to defend criticism of the bullet. mtmuley :)
As do Barnes, Nosler, Hammer, Sierra, Federal, Lapua, North Fork etc shooters. 😁😁

All in all most any well placed Bullet in the vitals of an animal will get the job done.
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,284
As do Barnes, Nosler, Hammer, Sierra, Federal, Lapua, North Fork etc shooters. 😁😁

All in all most any well placed Bullet in the vitals of an animal will get the job done.
Personally, I could care less if hunters don't like what I kill stuff with. I've used my bullet of choice for 16 or 17 years. I can't count the number if kills my friends, family and myself have made with it. Only recently changing bullets. mtmuley
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,284
curious what your bad experience was with the Berger? I’ve been contemplating trying the hammer mono’s as well.
Mostly meat damage. I don't trust a bullet that frangible if I have to take a less than perfect shot. And trust me, animals hit with a Berger don't always go 15 or 20 yards then die. And I better say, I know Bergers work. But once there is that ounce of doubt in your head about a bullet, it is really hard to close the bolt and send one at a critter. No matter what bullet it may be. mtmuley
 
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Joe2Kool

Very Active Member
Messages
1,582
All you guys got it wrong! NEXT year a NEW bullet will come out and none of these old Bergers, Federals, Barnes, Hornadys, Remingtons, etc. will be able to kill anything! Maybe a couple of squirrels, but that's it! :D :D
 

GlassMaster

Member
Messages
65
I'd ask your son... which ever one he is most comfortable with and shoot most effectively will be the best bullet for HIS hunt. Just my two cents worth. Either one will kill an elk with good shot placement, beyond that, who cares lol!? Good luck man, can't wait for my boy's first hunt!
 

kalielkslayer

Active Member
Messages
545
I have 0 experience with the Berger although I will start loading them and testing them in my 7mm Mag this summer. So I have nothing bad to say about Berger.
But my wife shoots a similar gun as your son, 7mm-08. Similar velocity and grain bullets. She’s killed 2 elk dead with the 130 grain Barnes TSX. My son has killed 3 elk dead in their tracks with a 140 grain TSX out of a .280 rem.
Mine don’t count since I use a .338. Elk die from that caliber regardless of what I feed it but the Barnes is choice #1 in that gin too.
 

saddlesorerider

Active Member
Messages
106
I have 2 grandsons with AZ youth cow tags this year.
The 12 year old will shoot a Tikka superlight in 6.5CM with the 127 or 120 Barnes. Maybe the new Trophy Bearclaw from Federal. The 10 year old will shoot a Rem700 youth rifle in 7-08 with the 120 Barnes. I watched my daughter hit a 5X5 Bull with a high shoulder shot at 210 yards. Broke both shoulders and spine and exited. Dropped on the spot.
Between my son in law and myself we have taken 17 elk with the 165 TTX from a 300 WSM Kimber Montana . I now shoot the same 165 TTXS out of my 300 Win ULA. Last bull was 450 yards with complete pass thru. Also shoot the 225TXS from my 338 Win again with complete pass thru.
Remember that elk don't always stand perfectly broadside and the youth hunters aren't as experienced as we are. If they make a marginal shot we want bullet penetration. So right now I only use Barnes in the rifles mentioned and older Trophy Bonded Bear Claws out of my 280 and 30-06.
 

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