Choosing Between Idiots

[bullskin]

Cities in chaos and Dems condone violence provided it is of the politically correct sort that they hypocritically define, ignoring riots as if they do not exist or excusing them as payback for the mistakes of past generations.

Trump accuses California officials of gross negligence, even though most of their fires have burned across federal lands managed by the Forest Service and BLM. Who's responsibility is it to rake those leaves, Mr. President?

Since it is too late to nominate responsible adults, let us hope that our "leaders" will at least find the capable help they require. It is difficult to believe that our best leadership comes from unelected officials.

 

[mossback50cal]

You do realize it is state laws in California that are the issue......... not the federal workers. It’s California’s regulations that cause the massive amounts of undergrowth. So, yes, our president is 100% correct.

 

[bigshotca]

You might check into California regulation on forest management and all the bogus environmental laws we have in place before you take the blame off of California leaders! Sadly our leaders think it’s ok for people to lose their homes in wild fires but is a horrible idea to let a forest get logged and cleaned, even after a fire! This state is so upside down with stupidity it is amazing, and they are leading us!

 

[mossback50cal]

Just typical regurgitation of what the news says.

 

[eelgrass]

And Trump made that statement during the fires that torched all those houses in Paradise. He was talking about maintaining a defensive space around your house. He was not telling people to take their rakes into Yosemite National Park and start raking.

 

[bigshotca]

 

[RELH]

Is Bullskin that dumb or just too much listening to CNN and Rachel Madcow. I lost count where there was plans made to log forest land and radical Democrat liberals filed lawsuits to get a injunction stopping the logging operation.
Even private landowners have to jump though many hoops to log trees off of their property.
RELH

 

[blrup]

Yeah, blaming a state for something that is debatable is just like condoning murder, theft, and incredible destruction. What a freaking joke!!! Pure evil or not perfect...hmmmmmm decisions decisions!

 

[bullskin]

I am not blaming Federal workers. I spent years on a USFS Hotshot Crew, and so I have experienced the energy that these guys put into their job, as well as the mismanagement on the part of Federal overhead that contributes to the situation we face today.

Neither am I "taking the blame off" California. I do not deny that California has too many restrictions on logging that have contributed to the accumulation of fuels. But I do take issue with the assertion that the same problem does not exist at the Federal level. California state law does not govern how the Feds manage wildfire or log Federal property, and lawsuits by environmentalists are not the fault of California officials, either.

The fact is, Federal property is a mess all over, whether it be California or Montana, and so they burn. Even in California one can tell the difference between Federal and private timber lands. If California law is to blame, then how does one explain why Fruit Growers, Roseburg, and Sierra Pacific lands are relatively clean and well managed while USFS lands look as though they have been abandoned? Are you really blaming Californians for the condition of our National Parks? It sounds to me like you guys believe everything that spills from the president's mouth, or are simply so paranoid about losing your man in office that you are afraid to hold government accountable. Get outside, open your eyes, and then get back to me when you have seen the evidence for yourselves.

 

[eelgrass]

It is regulations at the federal level that keeps the FS lands from being managed properly. Trump could appoint better people but even their hands are tied when the lawsuits pour in every time a logging plan is filed. It's really not the FS fault either.

 

[blrup]

American cities are being destroyed and burnt to the ground while law enforcement officers, children, and many other innocent people are being killed in cold blood while democrat leaders look on and make excuses for the criminals. And your reason for supporting them is that President Trump is a poor judge of "forest health"? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Bullskin, I call bullshit!! You have an agenda or you really need to adjust your priorities!!!

 

[DW]

It sounds to me like you've got a severe case of TDS.

 

[bullskin]

It is regulations at the federal level that keeps the FS lands from being managed properly. Trump could appoint better people but even their hands are tied when the lawsuits pour in every time a logging plan is filed. It's really not the FS fault either.

I totally agree, Eel. My criticisms were bi-partisan.

 

[bullskin]

American cities are being destroyed and burnt to the ground while law enforcement officers, children, and many other innocent people are being killed in cold blood while democrat leaders look on and make excuses for the criminals. And your reason for supporting them is that President Trump is a poor judge of "forest health"? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Bullskin, I call bullshit!! You have an agenda or you really need to adjust your priorities!!!

Where in my comments do you read "support" for Democrats? You may wish to re-read my comments, which opened with the very same criticism that you just voiced...

 

[bullskin]

You might check into California regulation on forest management and all the bogus environmental laws we have in place before you take the blame off of California leaders! Sadly our leaders think it’s ok for people to lose their homes in wild fires but is a horrible idea to let a forest get logged and cleaned, even after a fire! This state is so upside down with stupidity it is amazing, and they are leading us!

Agreed, and nothing in my comments is meant to excuse California lawmakers. I just don't want to see Federal mismanagement excused by those who pretend that California is to blame for their own inaction.

 

[Homer]

every CA fire started on private......

 

[bullskin]

And Trump made that statement during the fires that torched all those houses in Paradise. He was talking about maintaining a defensive space around your house. He was not telling people to take their rakes into Yosemite National Park and start raking.

Understood. But if Yosemite National Park is President Trump's responsibility--along with all other Federal forest lands--then it is his job to manage fuels across those lands (or, at the very least, not blame others for their poor condition).

 

[roadrunner]

Voting democrat is like putting four flat tires on a worn out old station wagon and go sputtering down a road full of potholes.

 

[bullskin]

every CA fire started on private......

You are joking, right? I am watching two lightning starts right now--near Quincy and Loyalton--that started on Federal lands and carried across onto private. The Carr fire that burned into Redding with loss of life and private property started in Whiskeytown National Recreation area. The Camp fire that burned into Paradise started on public land.

 

[Homer]

lol...yes I was......I pulled that out of thin air

not the first time

 

[bullskin]

lol...yes I was......I pulled that out of thin air

not the first time

Nice...

 

[bigshotca]

Open your eyes @bullskin, you are drowning in ignorance!

 

[RELH]

Bullskin your priorities are still F##KED up making it appear you do have a liberal agenda even if you will not admit so. Millions of Americans will have forest land management far far down the list of items they feel is important to them. If that is all you got on Trump, crawl back into your hole until you can find something more important.
RELH

 

[bullskin]

Open your eyes @bullskin, you are drowning in ignorance!

If you want to argue that the Feds have done a good job managing their land, in any state, go right ahead. But you will be laughed at by anyone who has actually seen them.

And, if you want to blame California for the mismanagement of Federal lands, then knock yourself out, but you may find it difficult to explain why, if California law applies to both Federal and private property, the private lands are in better condition than Federal lands.

I get it that partisans on both sides are hyper-sensitive to criticism of their guy, and that they would prefer to make the issue about the failures of the other side. But I believe in holding both sides accountable, so don't expect me to defend either where mistakes have been made.

 

[bigshotca]

But it is definitely Trumps fault??? You make yourself sound soo educated?

 

[bullskin]

Bullskin your priorities are still F##KED up making it appear you do have a liberal agenda even if you will not admit so. Millions of Americans will have forest land management far far down the list of items they feel is important to them. If that is all you got on Trump, crawl back into your hole until you can find something more important.
RELH

You have no idea what my priorities are. This is not about forests, this is about taking responsibility and being honest with the American people. At this point, policy is less important to me than integrity. I want politicians to tell the truth, and where they do not I want them to be exposed and held accountable. I believe that this is what most Americans want, whichever way they lean politically, and was once a cornerstone principle of conservatism.

Unfortunately, like many liberals, neo-con snowflakes no longer care about anyone but themselves. (If you have any criticism of my guy--and by extension, me--then you must be for the opposite team). But I do not expect that partisans on either fringe will accept this observation except as it applies to the "other" guy--and you reinforce this conviction with every argument you put forth. To put it simply, your point that syphilis is worse that gonorrhea does not change the fact that gonorrhea is still a disease. I would not be content with either, and neither should you.

Finally, in regard to your conclusion that forest management is of little concern to most Americans, I can only say that it must be nice to be a city boy secure in one's house made of brick. As for myself, I expect to spend this weekend moving my in-laws and other community members back into the homes from which they were evacuated thanks to a fire that began on Federal land. And, no, I do not blame Trump, but neither will I let him pass the buck.

 

[bullskin]

But it is definitely Trumps fault??? You make yourself sound soo educated?

Trumps only "fault" in this case is in blaming California for his own failure. After all, if he cannot manage Federal lands, then how can he expect any California official to do so? Or, if it simply cannot be done, then that is the message he should communicate--and not try to pass the buck. And that is exactly what I wrote. Hence, my characterization that he must be an idiot (or assumes us to be).

 

[bigshotca]

Can you name one California official that would let Trump take care of the federal land? It seems his policies on public land management are better than any in the last 60 years! You can hate Trump all you want but he is much better for this county than any of your left leaning picks!!

If you could provide a better choice, with valid points, I am all ears! Until then blow yer smoke up your own azz!

 

[bullskin]

"Can you name one California official that would let Trump take care of the federal land?"

Can you name one California official capable of prohibiting him from doing so?

In general, I do prefer Trump's management policies, but I do not let this keep me from calling him on his mistakes. It is possible to support politicians when they do well while also criticizing their efforts to deflect responsibility. That used to be the norm. When did voters become such candy-asses that they feel compelled to suck up 24-7?

 

[hossblur]

I am not blaming Federal workers. I spent years on a USFS Hotshot Crew, and so I have experienced the energy that these guys put into their job, as well as the mismanagement on the part of Federal overhead that contributes to the situation we face today.

Neither am I "taking the blame off" California. I do not deny that California has too many restrictions on logging that have contributed to the accumulation of fuels. But I do take issue with the assertion that the same problem does not exist at the Federal level. California state law does not govern how the Feds manage wildfire or log Federal property, and lawsuits by environmentalists are not the fault of California officials, either.

The fact is, Federal property is a mess all over, whether it be California or Montana, and so they burn. Even in California one can tell the difference between Federal and private timber lands. If California law is to blame, then how does one explain why Fruit Growers, Roseburg, and Sierra Pacific lands are relatively clean and well managed while USFS lands look as though they have been abandoned? Are you really blaming Californians for the condition of our National Parks? It sounds to me like you guys believe everything that spills from the president's mouth, or are simply so paranoid about losing your man in office that you are afraid to hold government accountable. Get outside, open your eyes, and then get back to me when you have seen the evidence for yourselves.

ROB BISHOP.

You want to know why they are screwed up, hes my congressman. He was the interior chair and now ranking. The goal was to starve FS to death so that the "state transfer" clowns could claim just what you have, that the FS sucks and the states can do it better so states should control public.

Doesnt mean FS is perfect, but there was a plan in place to make it bad.

 

[blrup]

We have 2 choices and it is abundantly obvious to me who the best choice is for America. If you want to try and contort yourself into a moral conundrum between the two based on the ridiculous parallels you are drawing then you've made up your mind.

 

[roadrunner]

If you want to argue that the Feds have done a good job managing their land, in any state, go right ahead. But you will be laughed at by anyone who has actually seen them.

And, if you want to blame California for the mismanagement of Federal lands, then knock yourself out, but you may find it difficult to explain why, if California law applies to both Federal and private property, the private lands are in better condition than Federal lands.

I get it that partisans on both sides are hyper-sensitive to criticism of their guy, and that they would prefer to make the issue about the failures of the other side. But I believe in holding both sides accountable, so don't expect me to defend either where mistakes have been made.

I think you need to understand the management plan for both public and heritage lands before you make comments on how it is not being done correctly.

You ain't gonna mow and trim the hedges on a 15 million acre "lawn and yard", because do-gooders in CA will have a cow over it...

 

[YBO]

A bunch of Chloroform words by the IP.

 

[antlerradar]

ROB BISHOP.

You want to know why they are screwed up, hes my congressman. He was the interior chair and now ranking. The goal was to starve FS to death so that the "state transfer" clowns could claim just what you have, that the FS sucks and the states can do it better so states should control public.

Doesnt mean FS is perfect, but there was a plan in place to make it bad.

Bullskin is sounding too much like Rob Bishop for me.

 

[bullskin]

ROB BISHOP.

You want to know why they are screwed up, hes my congressman. He was the interior chair and now ranking. The goal was to starve FS to death so that the "state transfer" clowns could claim just what you have, that the FS sucks and the states can do it better so states should control public.

Doesnt mean FS is perfect, but there was a plan in place to make it bad.

Absolutely. I have argued against the transfer of Federal lands to states before on the grounds that these lands were acquired with the blood and money of every American, not just those in any one particular state. But one cannot blame California for Rod Bishop, so I do not see how this supports President Trump's argument if that was your intent.

 

[bullskin]

I think you need to understand the management plan for both public and heritage lands before you make comments on how it is not being done correctly.

You ain't gonna mow and trim the hedges on a 15 million acre "lawn and yard", because do-gooders in CA will have a cow over it...

And yet it is the Federal timber land, not private, that suffers the worst mismanagement, even though both are subject to the same California laws and "do-gooders"?

 

[NeMont]

Bullskin,

you are violating rule #1 of the MM.com political forum.

Rule 1: No criticism of Trump on any issue.
Rule 2: Refer to rule 1

There is not a single Trump supporter who cares a single bit about holding Trump to task on anything he does.

The real reason to vote for Trump at this point is because if Biden gets in it would mean a Californian, Sen. Harris, would be in charge. We don't ever need another Californian in leadership of this country, May Ronald Reagan rest in peace.

Nemont

 

[bullskin]

We have 2 choices and it is abundantly obvious to me who the best choice is for America. If you want to try and contort yourself into a moral conundrum between the two based on the ridiculous parallels you are drawing then you've made up your mind.

Whomever you choose for president, support does not prohibit the honest discussion of mistakes. In the end, we all vote for imperfect candidates. My point has never been that either is entirely good or bad, but rather that Biden is weak if he cannot bring himself to stand against rioters, and that Trump is weak when he attempts to deflect responsibility for problems of his own doing onto others. They are both idiots if they think we cannot see past their lack of character. We are idiots if we cannot.

 

[RELH]

Nemont the last Californian in charge, Ronald Reagan, did a far better job then your pick of Kasick could ever do.
Bullskin, I am not a city boy as I live in the foothills of the Sierra mountain range of Northern CA.
RELH

 

[hossblur]

Absolutely. I have argued against the transfer of Federal lands to states before on the grounds that these lands were acquired with the blood and money of every American, not just those in any one particular state. But one cannot blame California for Rod Bishop, so I do not see how this supports President Trump's argument if that was your intent.

Congress controls both the purse strings. Trump or Biden can stand on there heads screaming and the appropriations come from Congress.

Do I wish Trump would sign a sweeping executive order opening up logging? Yeah. Then I remember giving him the power to do so means I have to shut my mouth when President Biden signs executive power to introduce wolves everywhere.

But lets be even more honest. Did either of tge Bushes or Clinton or Obama preside over better policies?

Further. Look at the votes for the LWCF. Then GAOA. Both of which sought to provide funding, from a tax that was already collected, to address FS/BLM maint. backlogs.

Look at who voted against it. Both Bishop, and Mike Lee not only voted against funding, but ACTIVELY campaigned against it.

So when you look at Trump signing GAOA, despite the protest of his party, its not Trumpism to defend him. Hes a NY real estate developer whom I doubt has ever spent a day on public land, and he did that.

Rob Bishop lives in Brigham City, Utah. The heart of public land. A state that relies heavy on public land economy. Yet despite living here, seeing beetle kill every day, he campaigned openly against doing anything about it.

He aint perfect. But compared to any in the last 40years, hes the best public land president we have had.

Facts are just facts.

 

[NeMont]

Nemont the last Californian in charge, Ronald Reagan, did a far better job then your pick of Kasick could ever do.
Bullskin, I am not a city boy as I live in the foothills of the Sierra mountain range of Northern CA.
RELH

When was Kasich president? If you could read I paid respect to Reagan.

I know you vote like a good lemming and just vote as you are told, so it doesn't much matter to me who you think I support or don't. I won't vote for Biden because he has dementia and a typical POS Californian would be a heart beat away. America can't be led by any Californian again.

Nemont

 

[bullskin]

Bullskin,

you are violating rule #1 of the MM.com political forum.

Rule 1: No criticism of Trump on any issue.
Rule 2: Refer to rule 1

There is not a single Trump supporter who cares a single bit about holding Trump to task on anything he does.

The real reason to vote for Trump at this point is because if Biden gets in it would mean a Californian, Sen. Harris, would be in charge. We don't ever need another Californian in leadership of this country, May Ronald Reagan rest in peace.

Nemont

Obviously I see no point in a political forum afraid to address both the strengths and weaknesses of any candidate. And I find it interesting that many of the regular voices here are quick to criticize politicians generally, yet can muster no critical analysis of their own preferred candidate. It seems more like a high school glee club than a serious effort to understand the state of American politics.

It is also revealing that, of the hundreds of members using this website, there are only a few who bother to express themselves here. Clearly, not everyone wants to be part of the club. And even within this small group there are many with integrity who, although reluctant to offer open criticism of Mr Trump, are content to allow the analysis take whichever direction it must.

In the end, I do not care which candidate anyone here votes for. There are reasons enough to support, or reject, them both. My only interest is in encouraging people (myself included) to make their choice based on accurate information, which I regard to be a difficult task considering how Fox, MSNBC, CNN and the other mainstream news outlets have positioned themselves with one party or other.

 

[bullskin]

Congress controls both the purse strings. Trump or Biden can stand on there heads screaming and the appropriations come from Congress.

Do I wish Trump would sign a sweeping executive order opening up logging? Yeah. Then I remember giving him the power to do so means I have to shut my mouth when President Biden signs executive power to introduce wolves everywhere.

But lets be even more honest. Did either of tge Bushes or Clinton or Obama preside over better policies?

Further. Look at the votes for the LWCF. Then GAOA. Both of which sought to provide funding, from a tax that was already collected, to address FS/BLM maint. backlogs.

Look at who voted against it. Both Bishop, and Mike Lee not only voted against funding, but ACTIVELY campaigned against it.

So when you look at Trump signing GAOA, despite the protest of his party, its not Trumpism to defend him. Hes a NY real estate developer whom I doubt has ever spent a day on public land, and he did that.

Rob Bishop lives in Brigham City, Utah. The heart of public land. A state that relies heavy on public land economy. Yet despite living here, seeing beetle kill every day, he campaigned openly against doing anything about it.

He aint perfect. But compared to any in the last 40years, hes the best public land president we have had.

Facts are just facts.

I agree completely. Unlike some on this forum, I have never pretended that any president is entirely good or entirely evil. Trump has been responsive to business and to sportsmen, and certainly understands that immigration law should be respected. Now, if only he would round up the horses...

What I do not understand, however, is how the question of whether he was justified in criticizing California for mismanagement of Federal lands leads us to discussion of Bishop, etc. I think it is enough to acknowledge that the obstacles to good management are many; that California is responsible for some, and that the difference in management practices between Federal and private forest lands in that state demonstrate Federal responsibility for the remainder. If the question is as simple as whether or not California is responsible for mismanagement of Federal lands, as Trump has claimed, then the answer seems pretty clear.

 

[hossblur]

I agree completely. Unlike some on this forum, I have never pretended that any president is entirely good or entirely evil. Trump has been responsive to business and to sportsmen, and certainly understands that immigration law should be respected. Now, if only he would round up the horses...

What I do not understand, however, is how the question of whether he was justified in criticizing California for mismanagement of Federal lands leads us to discussion of Bishop, etc. I think it is enough to acknowledge that the obstacles to good management are many; that California is responsible for some, and that the difference in management practices between Federal and private forest lands in that state demonstrate Federal responsibility for the remainder. If the question is as simple as whether or not California is responsible for mismanagement of Federal lands, as Trump has claimed, then the answer seems pretty clear.

Mitt Romney had a plan to address the horses, last year. Still waiting for that.

People get pretty caught up in trying to prove Trump is dumb. Im not claiming he has the biggest, most special, greatest ever brain, but he did shine light onto the issue. And he has followed it up with loading the 9th circuit with conservative judges, which we know was the enviro Nazi favorite court.

Now. We will see when he is elected. Will it free him from needing the Republican check pant and bow tie crowd. Or will he decide he no longer needs to curry favor with sportsmen.

I hope its the former.

 

[Boskee]

Bullskin in all fairness to you your questions would be better addressed to the environmental movement and lobby in CA. They have tied the hands of many federal agencies on a ton of issues. After they got involved the let it burn advocates got into the foray full time and created more issues than they solved. Case in point many Indian Reservations have large stands of timber that they manage in a much more proactive manner and when they have fires they get them under control much faster.

One of the other issues was they have diverted management funds from the forest service & parks for other usage for decades just like they have done with other funding for other agencies. So to try to pin the tail on Trump for errors in the past if meaningless. He inherited his predecessors management of the resources. i will tell you that since he was elected they've taken a more active stance in thinning areas to restrict the ability of the fires to spread as fast. Decades of past mismanagement aren't going to be fixed in short order but a better plan being implemented will help.

We used to have big fires when we had sounder management in place in the past, and like the Indians Reservations things got handled faster. Ironic isn't it our forest service trained the Indians using our previous techniques and they used those techniques and they worked. The Indians have continued the past management techniques and it has proven very reliable for them even today. When you factor in they have less funding available to them it shows the advantages of sound management. Letting forests grow wild has it's advantages but history has shown us better management results in better fire prevention in the end.

So while you think Trump's the culprit you could use that same blame assessment to shame him for our roads, bridges, and a plethora of other issues previous administrations let go rather than fixing at the time. So your inability to look at the past severely clouds your judgement on the present. You seem to be overlooking a politicians penchant for kicking the can down the road. It's the same reasons why our parks were let go and our stock piles of medical supplies weren't replenished in the past.

Then when you factor in we were pirating parts from other aircraft to put planes in the air, and the state of our military in many critical areas it shows monies were spent on other areas rather than shoring up the leaks in the dams in many areas. So while Nemont wants to attack Trump too all one has to do is look at all the projects that need paint and the bridges needing repair along with the roads and it shows some serious deficiencies in the past, leaves us with many of the problems in the present. That's the reality of the situation but past sins get swept under the rug when we have someone so worthy of blame at the helm.

 

[NeMont]

Boskee,

We just had the largest Federal Budget in history and can you show me where The President prioritized anything in that budget? He stripped money from the Pentagon budget to be used down on the border wall.

Trump plans to divert $7.2 billion from Pentagon for border wall construction: report

President Trump plans to divert $7.2 billion from the Pentagon to go toward border wall construction this year, an amount five times greater than what Congress authorized in the budget, The Washing…

thehill.com

We are set to spend a nearly a Trillion on Defense, so how much more do we need to spend to keep our aircraft flying. The Pentagon budget is as big than the next 14 countries on the list of military spending, combined.

So is it all Trump? nope, but does he prioritize and present a budget? yep.

So Trump lovers ever want to hold him to account for anything, nope. Do they care about the debt he has racked up on his watch? Not even a little, they beg for more.

Nemont

 

[RELH]

Nemont, being a Trump "lover" is far better then being a lover of a two face turncoat politician like you were with Kasick. Did you get your feelings hurt when your savior stuck it up your behind and showed how much of a Democrat he was? You can sure pick them!!!

RELH

 

[Boskee]

Nemont since we're seeing our forest service doing things that haven't been done in years, since he was elected I'll base my story on that and the fact they're telling folks it's for fire prevention so prove me wrong.

Besides your hatred has managed to distort your views on the man since he was elected. Yes he's spent money but do you think him not building a wall that will save us hundreds of billions doesn't make sense. The wall is a token expense compared to what we've been spending funding illegal immigration in this country.

Let s see if you can prove that false ...... whoa it couldn't be you're attacking the man for showing fiscal restraint on an issue...and wanting to make our country strong when they're walking in our streets trying to topple us...... then when you compound that with the global expansion going on from Russia and China it does appear to make sense... to have our defense ready as a deterrent..... and how many jobs did that create? Gee you just don't seem to be able to fathom why his plan works on so many fronts........ millions and millions more paychecks and jobs and does that give us more tax revenues at all levels?

So let's see it would appear Trumps plan while not perfect benefited more American's than that sordid little plan the dems had to save our economy....by shutting it down.....didn't it?

 

[RELH]

Nemont's TDS is so overpowering that even as a ex-military service man, he can not or will not accept Trump beefing up the military. His TDS will not allow him to admit that a very strong military is what prevents Russia or China from pulling a "Pearl Harbor" on us. Except this time it will involve nuke ICBMs landing on us.
Somebody send Nemont a crying towel as he is going to need to dry his eyes this Nov.
RELH

 

[Shadow]

And some people still take the comment “rake the forest” quite literally. No wonder this country is a mess.

 

[bullskin]

Bullskin in all fairness to you your questions would be better addressed to the environmental movement and lobby in CA. They have tied the hands of many federal agencies on a ton of issues. After they got involved the let it burn advocates got into the foray full time and created more issues than they solved. Case in point many Indian Reservations have large stands of timber that they manage in a much more proactive manner and when they have fires they get them under control much faster.

One of the other issues was they have diverted management funds from the forest service & parks for other usage for decades just like they have done with other funding for other agencies. So to try to pin the tail on Trump for errors in the past if meaningless. He inherited his predecessors management of the resources. i will tell you that since he was elected they've taken a more active stance in thinning areas to restrict the ability of the fires to spread as fast. Decades of past mismanagement aren't going to be fixed in short order but a better plan being implemented will help.

We used to have big fires when we had sounder management in place in the past, and like the Indians Reservations things got handled faster. Ironic isn't it our forest service trained the Indians using our previous techniques and they used those techniques and they worked. The Indians have continued the past management techniques and it has proven very reliable for them even today. When you factor in they have less funding available to them it shows the advantages of sound management. Letting forests grow wild has it's advantages but history has shown us better management results in better fire prevention in the end.

So while you think Trump's the culprit you could use that same blame assessment to shame him for our roads, bridges, and a plethora of other issues previous administrations let go rather than fixing at the time. So your inability to look at the past severely clouds your judgement on the present. You seem to be overlooking a politicians penchant for kicking the can down the road. It's the same reasons why our parks were let go and our stock piles of medical supplies weren't replenished in the past.

Then when you factor in we were pirating parts from other aircraft to put planes in the air, and the state of our military in many critical areas it shows monies were spent on other areas rather than shoring up the leaks in the dams in many areas. So while Nemont wants to attack Trump too all one has to do is look at all the projects that need paint and the bridges needing repair along with the roads and it shows some serious deficiencies in the past, leaves us with many of the problems in the present. That's the reality of the situation but past sins get swept under the rug when we have someone so worthy of blame at the helm.

I think we agree on most of these issues, Boskee. It has been acknowledged that environmentalists have tied the hands of managers, that inadequate resources have been obligated toward fire protection at the State and Federal level, and that forests are in poor shape as a result (with Federal lands being among the worst). To my knowledge, these points are not even in debate.

Where we disagree, then, is in your claim that I have identified Trump as the culprit for these conditions. I have not. Instead, I have accused him of passing the buck by trying to place the blame for these conditions on California state officials--as if they could somehow control environmentalists that the Feds cannot, or have resources to draw from that the Feds do not. His fault is not in failing to save the forests, but in disclaiming any responsibility to do so. He is no Harry Truman.

So, back to the question... Is there any reason to believe that California officials are somehow more responsible for the poor condition of Federal lands than our own president, even while privately-owned timber lands in the same state are much better off?

 

[bullskin]

And some people still take the comment “rake the forest” quite literally. No wonder this country is a mess.

If you are referring to my opening statement, then it would appear that YOU take that phrase too literally...

 

[fullthrottle]

What was it that phony racist Biden said? That’s right “you ain’t black if you don’t vote for me” Biden is seething with racism. How about this, you ain’t American if you don’t vote for Trump. Black, white, brown it don’t matter, we are all free Americans. How lucky we are. Trump loves America and what it stands for. If you don’t vote for Trump, either you are an absolute moron, Can’t think for yourself, hate America, or hate god. A vote for Biden is a vote for the radical left. Are you kidding me?? At the top of your list is blaming Trump for the California fire situation. You have got to be kidding me. Listen to yourself.

 

[fullthrottle]

I can’t believe what I’m hearing from some of you idiots. Our front line responders are being disrespected, abused, mistreated. Its unbelievable, how long are we going to put up with this horseshit? Wake up! The Dems don’t report jack ****, instead they talk about trumps hair, or his stupid tweet. Who freaking cares? Our country is being torn down.

 

[RELH]

Bullskn when are you going to figure out that those CA. state officials and the radical environmental idiots are in cahoots with each other. They rightfully should be blamed. Do you have a problem admitting that most Democrats are bent so far left with their policy?
RELH

 

[DW]

Congress controls both the purse strings. Trump or Biden can stand on there heads screaming and the appropriations come from Congress.

Do I wish Trump would sign a sweeping executive order opening up logging? Yeah. Then I remember giving him the power to do so means I have to shut my mouth when President Biden signs executive power to introduce wolves everywhere.

But lets be even more honest. Did either of tge Bushes or Clinton or Obama preside over better policies?

Further. Look at the votes for the LWCF. Then GAOA. Both of which sought to provide funding, from a tax that was already collected, to address FS/BLM maint. backlogs.

Look at who voted against it. Both Bishop, and Mike Lee not only voted against funding, but ACTIVELY campaigned against it.

So when you look at Trump signing GAOA, despite the protest of his party, its not Trumpism to defend him. Hes a NY real estate developer whom I doubt has ever spent a day on public land, and he did that.

Rob Bishop lives in Brigham City, Utah. The heart of public land. A state that relies heavy on public land economy. Yet despite living here, seeing beetle kill every day, he campaigned openly against doing anything about it.

He aint perfect. But compared to any in the last 40years, hes the best public land president we have had.

Facts are just facts.

That's not what I'm readin on a certain groups Facebook page. Just sayin.

 

[bullskin]

Bullskn when are you going to figure out that those CA. state officials and the radical environmental idiots are in cahoots with each other. They rightfully should be blamed. Do you have a problem admitting that most Democrats are bent so far left with their policy?
RELH

Undoubtedly. Environmentalists elect officials that favor their point of view, and I am happy to hold Dem's feet to the fire when they screw up. But does the California legislature pass laws that somehow apply only to Federal forest lands? If not, then who bears responsibility for their poor condition relative to all other land in this state? Is it possible that California law makes it more difficult to manage Federal lands than private lands? If not, then perhaps our President should stop shifting blame and take action.

 

[bullskin]

What was it that phony racist Biden said? That’s right “you ain’t black if you don’t vote for me” Biden is seething with racism. How about this, you ain’t American if you don’t vote for Trump. Black, white, brown it don’t matter, we are all free Americans. How lucky we are. Trump loves America and what it stands for. If you don’t vote for Trump, either you are an absolute moron, Can’t think for yourself, hate America, or hate god. A vote for Biden is a vote for the radical left. Are you kidding me?? At the top of your list is blaming Trump for the California fire situation. You have got to be kidding me. Listen to yourself.

Don't know who you are addressing with the Biden stuff so I will pass on that. And no one is blaming Trump for the California fire situation. Instead, Trump is blaming California.

This may seem academic to those who focus on crime in far-away cities, but it is not merely so to those of us who make a living in these mountains and your opinion won't carry much weight in rural communities with that "you should only care about my problems" mentality. This is not a referendum on Trump unless you choose to make it so. Read the thread to understand what we are talking about here...

 

[fullthrottle]

I’m addressing you dumbshit! You act like it’s a coin toss. It’s far from a coin toss.

 

[Shadow]

If you are referring to my opening statement, then it would appear that YOU take that phrase too literally...

I didn’t ask the question “who’s job is it to rake the leaves Mr. President”.
And no, I wasn’t necessarily referring to you but plenty of democrats took it and ran, same as they did when they swore up and down that he told people to inject Lysol to fix the corona.

 

[bullskin]

I’m addressing you dumbshit! You act like it’s a coin toss. It’s far from a coin toss.

I am not advising you or anyone else whom to vote for. My comment, should you choose to read it, is that both of these candidates suck. If you want to defend one or the other, or argue who sucks the hardest, then feel free to do so. But, of the two of us, you are the only one trying to sell a candidate here. I just want them to take a little responsibility...

 

[RELH]

Bullskin our worse fire over a year ago was the campfire that wiped out the town of Paradise. That fire was started by a PGE high voltage line that was in poor maintenance condition. The reason for that was that our elected officials put heavy pressure on PGE to go green with their power. As a result of the pressure, PGE diverted funds from the maintenance fund to please the powers to be on a green energy program.
Now I will say this again, if this is what you have to complain about the president, it is worth about 2 cents and you need to crawl back into your hole until you can come up with something that might amount to a hill of beans.
RELH

 

[bullskin]

I understand the cause of the Camp Fire. It destroyed the homes of friends. Not a big deal to you, I guess. The fire burning near Quincy has displaced family. No doubt you don't care. Fire safety may not be a serious concern for you, slicker, but it is more relevant to those of us living in these mountains than riots in Portland or Chicago.

Certainly, PGE failed, and we have already acknowledged that California is to blame for many of the regulations that led to this and other catastrophic fires. But that does not alter the fact that Federal lands managed under the same exact rules are in worse condition than private timberlands. So there is a lot more to this story than California forest policy. You don't have to acknowledge it if you don't want to, but that cat is out of the bag whether you like it or not.

 

[Bluehair]

I'm glad the person in the Whitehouse isn't in charge of raking the leaves. I don't think forest management should operate on a 4 year cycle.

 

[roadrunner]

There is not a single Trump supporter who cares a single bit about holding Trump to task on anything he does.

That is where you are SSSOOOOOOOO wrong.

 

[RELH]

Bullskin you are full of crap with your TDS. Again I am not a city slicker that does not care. I have lived in the mountains since 1980 and been though one forest fire in my area that came within 200 yards of my home. Again if this is all you have to complain about on our president, crawl back into your TDS hole and wait until you have something more to make yourself worth listening too.
RELH

 

[Boskee]

Bullskin you need to try to get some knowledge on how things really work. That's where you always have the disconnect but you're starting to see the light a bit. Here I'll make it easy for you go read about what happened with the wolves and take a look at who blocked the states from managing their own resources. The environmental lobby is huge and they have multi story buildings filled with expensive lawyers in Washington that's all they do is sue the feds or the state to promote their agenda.

We as taxpayers pick up the tab for all this crap the dems have used for years......when they sue the state we lose wildlife funds because we have to pay lawyers and fund studies and the cycle goes on and on. In fact things got so bad the states needed the US Fish and Wildlife funds tied to old wolfey so they submitted to the blackmail.

It's a vicious cycle and they get injunctions to stop the feds or the state from doing their management in the process. They keep coming up with things to derail the states and they use the same tactics against the fed.

Here let's make it simpler. How could a state with one of the largest bodies of water on earth have a water shortage when the technology exists to desalinate the water? Yet they can't get through the environmental regulations to be able to use it? Is that light getting a little brighter now? They use the courts as a weapon to stop anything they don't want at either the state or federal level......That's how the seven toed hatchet billed purple crested dicckkey bird became the most protected thing on earth.

 

[roadrunner]

And yet it is the Federal timber land, not private, that suffers the worst mismanagement, even though both are subject to the same California laws and "do-gooders"?

Why do you think that is? Hint: Endagered Species Act for starters. Any activity on federal and heritage lands is a federal action and subject to a NEPA analysis and all the stuff that goes with it.

 

[bigshotca]

@bullskin, there is a reason that the only forest management going on in California is on private property, if you would dig a little deeper than cnn you might be surprised at what we are up against in this state! California is trying to be the forefront of the “green new deal” and it is blatantly obvious that it is a failure!! You’d have to have an open mind to see it though!

 

[wetmule]

Bokee is exactly right. Any proposed timber sale or logging activity is instantaneously hit with a lawsuit from the Sierra Club, Center for Biological Diversity or one of the countless green lobbying orgs. Unless it's changed in recent times? - taxpayers are on the hook to pay the legal fees for both sides. Hell of a racket if you can get it.