CO Muzzy Help

N

NorthSide

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I'm fairly new in the muzzleloader world, as I've been an archery hunter for years. I drew my first muzzleloader hunt in Colorado Unit 70. I have Rem 700 ML and would love some suggestions on primers, lead, and powder? Colorado does not allow pelletized powder or sabots, not sure on the primers.

Thanks NS
 
Powders: In the order I like them:

BH 209 (if it works in your rifle, I don't know). I use Remington Premium STS primers with this powder. Have to use one of the more powerful 209 primers.

777: 2f powder. I use Winchester 777 primers with this. They are reduced in strength to try and prevent what is called the "crud ring" that 777 can leave in the breech area after each shot.

pyrodex RS or Select: Still a great powder as far as accuracy, just more prone to rust. Not really a problem, just have to clean your rifle each time you use it (the same day).

Bullets: Kind of depends on what you are hunting (elk/deer?). I personally use the Hornady 350 grain FPB for both deer and elk. I love them. However, you have to remove the plastic tip or cut it off flush with the front of the bullet so it doesn't exceed the legal length.

Others to try are the no excuses 460 grain (if you are hunting elk), and powerbelts (300gr platinum or 348 aerotip for deer/ 338 platinum or 405 aerotip for elk)

As you can tell, I tend to like the heavier end of bullets. Just my personal preference.

If you can find a good conical that will be accurate in your gun other than powerbelts, you will save money and IMO the other bullets hold together better when they encounter bone.

ALSO: DO NOT BUY INTO THE MAGNUM HYPE. My elk load is 90 grains of BH209. Anywhere from 80 to 110 gr of blackpowder equivalent is plenty of powder to kill any animal in Colorado. Personally I would never exceed 120 gr of loose powder.

Also, loose powder is measured by volume, not weight. If you find a good combo for your powder in the 100 gr volume range and then you want to weigh it to be more consistent, that is ok, but it won't weight 100 gr.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Thanks for the info. It will be helpful. I'm going to be hunting deer so I'm leaning towards a bullet in the 350 range and powder around 90 to 100 grains. Will a hundred grains by volume weigh more or less than 100 grains by weight?
 
What are your feelings on Pioneer powder? My cousin is telling me to stay away from Pyrodex - it's too dirty. I'm here for accuracy.

Thanks NS
 
pyrodex is a great powder. very consistent and accurate.

pioneer on the other hand is very weak and absorbs moisture easily.
 
I'm going to go with Pyrodex. Do you know if the 338 and / or 348 PowerBelts are legal in Colorado. The synopsis states that you can shoot "a conical projectile the length of which does not exceed twice the diameter". The reason I ask is I have never purchased a bullet before. I have shot other peoples muzzleloaders, but it was for fun and thus the loads didn't matter to me.

Thanks NS
 
yeah they are legal. Even the monster 444 FP Powerbelt is legal for Colorado. My choice for you rem700 would be the 338 platinum as they have a larger diameter skirt for larger bore rifles.
 
I'm following your lead. I've got faith in a perfect cyber muzzy stranger. How does this sound to start - 90 grains by volume pyrodex RS, 209 primer, and 338 platinum powerbelt. Looking to shoot no further than 100 yards.

Thanks again, NS
 
yeah that sounds like a good starting point.

Buy a few different brands of primers. CCI 209M, Winchester 777 & Winchester W209 primers. Once you get an accurate load, switch primer and see if it helps accuracy or decreases accuracy.
 
Thanks for the insight. Now I will give it a run. it looks like Sunday. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks a ton. I feel like I'm going down the right track.

NS
 
sounds good. Dont get down if the load isnt accurate. Its muzzleloading, These can be quite tricky to find the perfect load.
 
Do you suggest starting at 90 grains and going up by fives until I find the load I like and then changing primers. Should I try different weighted bullets or is that the last resort behind loads and primers?

Thanks NS
 
yes start at 90. I dont think you'll need to go over 110grains. Once you got the most accurate load for that bullet, write down the info and then you can move onto say the 348 or even the 405.

Just change your primers first before changing the bullet.
 
I personally like Pyrodex P better than the RS. It seems to be cleaner and measures more accurately in my opinion.
 
pyrodex P is 3f and Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex Select are 2F.

Normally 3f is a bit cleaner. Ive used all 3 and they all do great.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I ended up shooting a 348 copper powerbelt with 90 grains of powder by volume, and a 209W cap. The set up shot real well. Already four inch groups at 100 yards. Cleaning after the day of shooting was intensive, but well worth it.

Thanks again.

NS
 
Open sights?

Im wondering if a little more of even a little less, 10 grains or so would help tighten the group. Also with bh209, give the barrel a few minutes to cool down as that powder will heat up the steel fast.
 
Open sights - yes. The powder was pyrodex R/S select. The shots were spaced at least five minutes apart and the barrel was cleaned between every shot. I had very little drop from 50 to 100 yards. Is that common?

Thanks NS
 
yes that common from 50 to 100. I think if its dead on at 100, its right about 2" high @ 50 yards.

I wonder how it would group if you didnt swab? Got to try that next time at the range!
 
One more question before the next question - how many shots do you think I should be able to take before cleaning and still group well? I'm going to test the theory soon.

Thanks NS
 
>One more question before the next
>question - how many shots
>do you think I should
>be able to take before
>cleaning and still group well?
> I'm going to test
>the theory soon.
>
>Thanks NS

These 3 shots at 100 yards were fired through a barrel that already had 6 shots through it.
Very top middle group were 295gr Powerbelts with 80gr pyrodex P.


Picture467-1.jpg


Lower 3 shots were with 80gr pyrodex P. The one hole that you see at the top was the same rifle, that had those previous 3 shots on the target, i just upped my charge to 90gr pyrodex P with the 348gr Powerbelt. Also 100 yards.
Picture029.jpg


You'll just have to have all the fun and see how many it takes before the accuracy goes south.
 
Some people get good accuracy not swabbing between shots, and you gun may be one that will do that, but my guns get the best accuracy if I run one wet patch (both sides) and one dry patch (both sides) between each shot. It is nice to know how the second one will hit for a follow up shot without swabbing, but as a general rule, I swab between each shot at the range. That is still considered a fouled barrel, not a clean one.

Also, you can get away with not swabbing as often a lot better with powerbelts than most other conicals, because the bullet itself is smaller than bore size and the plastic base will squeeze down the barrel easier than a full bore bullet or sabot.

So, there is no problem trying and seeing what your gun is capable of, but most shooters will tell you that their best accuracy is obtained with swabbing between shots with pyrodex or 777.

Of course, BH 209 is a whole different story. I have shot as many as 30 times between shots without swabbing once.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 

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