Coconino Road Closers

[GotBowAz]

With the new Coconino road closers coming up on May 1st how many of you lucky enough with a tag are going to be effected by it? What's your thoughts?

GBA



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Share April 27, 2012
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4/26/2012 5:21:00 PM
New closures, camping restrictions start in Coconino Forest



Starting next week, dispersed vehicle camping in the Coconino National Forest will be permitted within 300 feet of the roadway along nearly 600 miles of designated camping corridors. Along all other open roads vehicles must remain within 30 feet of the road.




The Coconino National Forest has released a free map to the public showing what roads will remain open for on-highway and off-highway use as well as where the dispersed camping corridors are.



Steve Ayers
Staff Reporter


CAMP VERDE - The implementation of road closures and new vehicle camping restrictions on the Coconino National Forest, six years in the making, will begin on May 1.

Known as the Travel Management Rule, it will close off 3,000 miles of roads formerly accessible to the public and effectively close many favorite camping spots to RVs and travel trailers.

To ensure the public understands with new rules, the Forest Service is giving away free maps that show which roads will remain open and which corridors remain open for dispersed vehicle camping.

Copies of the map are now available at the Verde Ranger Station in Camp Verde, Red Rock Ranger Station south of the Village of Oak Creek, Happy Jack Ranger Station and the CNF offices in Flagstaff.

"We don't expect everyone is going to be able to follow the map 100 percent. We kind of see the map as the speed limit, the purpose of which is to provide an incentive to do the right thing," says Mike Dechter, travel management rule coordinator for the CNF.

The two-sided, three-by-five foot map, delineates the 3,000 miles of open roads, showing which ones are open only to highway licensed vehicles and which ones are open to all vehicles, including ATVs, along with the 600 miles of corridors open to camping.

A downloadable version of the map for Garmin GPS units is also available free on the CNF websites as well as one for use with smart phones. Go to www.fs.usda.gov/Coconino and click on the "Travel Management Rule" link.

Under the new rules, vehicle camping in RVs is allowed within 300 feet of the road in any of the designated camping corridors. Outside of the camping corridors, vehicles must stay within 30 feet of the roadway.

"There appears to be some confusion when it comes to camping restrictions," Dechter says. "Actually the entire forest is open to camping. The only restriction is on where motor vehicles can go."

The Coconino National Forest will not post signs notifying visitors of roads that have been closed. Instead they will rely on the maps.

"Over the past five years we have worked really, really hard to get route-marker signs up, which tell you what road you are on," Dechter says. "It's actually national policy not to put closure signs out because in the past it has backfired.

"It has provided an incentive for people to tear down and vandalize those signs. They are very good at it, much better than we are at keeping them up."

Dechter says that over time the roads being closed off will be obliterated, a gate installed or some sort of roadblock put in place to discourage traffic.

 

[HullinPhx]

I know they tried this same thing in Kaibab last year. It is unenforceable, this is what the Forest service told me. There is no way they can cover everything. Hopefully the people follow the rules to the best of their abilities. The Game and fish wont be able to do anything either since this is a forest service thing. I am all for closing down some of the roads there are way to many but unless they start intalling road block I am not sure there is much they will be able to do.

John

 

[huntin50]

My 18 yr old boy drew a 5b south archery elk tag. I'll have to research this new law. I think closing some roads would be a good idea and improve quality. Not sure what will be left open.

 

[Gator]

I guess I will be bring my horse and mule again. LOL

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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[vitalzone]

Some of the roads do need to be shut down, biggest question for me is why on the east side of FH 3, the units 5a, 5b etc., are they not allowing any motorized retrieval of elk, not even on the closed roads, the roads will still be there. If you buy a firewood permit you can still use a vehicle to retrieve firewood. If I am not mistaken some of the wood permits are for 4 cords of wood,that means 4 trips off roads per permit to retrieve wood. There are plenty more wood permits out there than elk permits.Seems like the impact to retrieve elk would be minimal, not even all the elk tags would be filled, might mean some left behind elk meat. What's your take on this?

 

[muleymaniac]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-12 AT 02:24PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-12 AT 02:22?PM (MST)

as far as road closures - complete ignorance is the only answer - unless the FS physicaly block the road with a sign - concider it open!


do not get a map - do not carry a map

they say we are suppose to know and comply but only if you physicallty come and get a map !

it will not flush ! total B.S.! the forests and roads belong to us.

its the nf service responsiblility to close rds , not up to public obligation to know whats expected!.


case in point - i just returned from a turkey hunt in the KIABAB
99% of camping this wweekend was against the new road closures that was implemented last year! i never saw a single fs truck in 3 days of hunting

they just want to make a new set of rules and figure you'll comply without them putting in any effort to control or monitor the situation.

first they have to prove you had knpowledge of any road closures '

if a ROAD HAS A #'D SIGN , CONCIDER IT OPEN . ITS THE NF REPONSIBILITY TO POST CLOSED ROADS!

 

[anthonyr]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-12 AT 02:08PM (MST)[p]Be careful! I am not sure about the Coconino, but on the Kaibab they have been enforcing it. At the beginning of most major roadways there is a big sign that says you can only use the roads marked open on the free map they give away. I have heard that G&F and FS have been using airplanes/helicopters to catch people. Even heard of quads being confiscated. I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm just trying to help you all be aware of what's going on.

 

[sremim]

They wont confiscate quads for driving down these closed roads and not confiscate trucks. I highly doubt they will confiscate anything for just driving down a closed road. If they are taking peoples quads I bet it is for far worse offenses. G&F isn't going to enforce these rules, it is not their rules to enforce.

 

[anthonyr]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-12 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p].

 

[TOPGUN]

If people listen to muleymaniac, there are going to be a lot of people getting into trouble because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Roads can be closed just like they are doing without physical signs being in place as long as the rule procedures were followed and posted/printed so the public has access to them. Thus, a printed map as described in the OP is all they need and if muleymaniac doesn't follow it and gets caught he will either pay the ticket or be whining before a Judge about "his rights" being violated when they were'nt! It sounds like they have been working on that plan for a long time and I'm sure there were comment periods they had to follow in order to finalize what is in effect as of today. If they didn't get an overabundance of negative comments to change what they've done before now, then it's more than likely public apathy that led to this!

 

[sremim]

There were plenty of negative comments about it. People can say all they want that nobody showed up and that is why they did this. BS. They would have still done this even if every forest user in the state showed up to the meetings and said no.

I remember when they had these public comment sessions. Plenty of people voiced their concerns on deaf ears. There will be a person or a group who gets cited and goes to court. They will have the balls to fight it and open a big can of worms for the FS.

 

[TOPGUN]

sremim---There may have been "plenty" of negative comments and people voicing their concerns, but it takes a concerted effort of many to stop or lessen stuff like this. I'm not talking about 30 or 40 people at any one meeting, but rather so many people showing up for each meeting that they have to move it to a big facility that will handle the crowd! I would bet things could have been done differently if there had been the uproar over this like there was over the recent AZ tag grab Bill. Granted that we are talking about a State function as compared to this Federal legislation, but this stuff takes a huge number of people crying out to get their attention. Now it will really be hard to get changes made after all these closures were allowed to be adopted.

 

[mike111]

I know road the road closures had an effect on me during my turkey hunt this year. After the morning hunt you were just stuck to the main road after the long hike back to your truck. Then you don't feel like driving the main road the rest of the morning. I'm not saying they shouldn't have closed some roads but not near as many as they did. I didn't like the experience as much being stuck in one spot, so I'm sure after the fall hunts many more people will experience the same feeling towards this situation.

 

[brian390]

I think the road closures suck. They closed some pretty main roads off on the kaibab national forest. They went a little too far with this in my opinion.

 

[muleymaniac]

LAST EDITED ON May-01-12 AT 07:22PM (MST)[p]i saw at least 40 campsites, all illegal over the weekend
many on main roads , camped in plain view and in areas that are not on the map!

they were there 3-4 days

if the nf wants to make new laws, then they need to enforce them .

flying with helicopters , to find violators. thats a joke. drive down any main fs road and you can see lots of illegal activity .
I stopped and talked to one huge camp 6 rv's , they said nobody has hazzled them and they saw a few fs trucks drive by! none even slowed down

most people coming in late do not stop at the turn off and read the little message boards. the only way to enforce it is for them to post the raods closed .

something as simple as if the road has a post with a fs # its open if you do not see a post or a # then it's closed . make it easy

80% of the roads that are closed had a set of tracks.some lots.




edit - this was in kiabab - i know its coconino thread but road closures are in effect in a lot of national forests!

 

[sremim]

muleymaniac,

These road closures did not go into effect on the Coconino until today. Anything you saw this past weekend would have been legal....

Here's something the FS will have a hell of a time with. The maps are horrible at showing where you are. There is nothing more than just road numbers and some of the roads still open don't even show that. I'll be willing to bet most of the people who use the forest will have no clue how to read the maps. How can they cite somebody for not being able to understand such a worthless document?

For an agency that hires cartographers, they should have done a much better job with these maps. I've seen better hand drawn maps.

 

[TOPGUN]

sremim---There is no excuse for them not putting out a good product if that's what they are going to use to enforce the act instead of using actual road closure signs! They better get their act together and upgrade the maps if they are as bad as you stated and I have no reason not to believe you!

 

[AZStickman]

LAST EDITED ON May-04-12 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]I contacted The Coconino National forest office and received my Motorized Vehicle Use Map yesterday. From what I can see they only are showing roads that are open to all vehicles, Street legal vehicles only,vehicles 50" in width or less and motorcycles. There is a different legend on the map for each. I believe any roads not showing on the maps are considered closed (and there are a lot of them). The map came with an insert showing Mike Dechter as a contact for questions 928-527-3416 or [email protected] . I will be calling him later today with a couple of questions I have.

They are still allowing dispersed camping in designated areas and these are shown on the map. You are allowed to camp within 300 feet of the road in these areas.You are allowed dispersed camping outside these camping corridors but must remain within 30 feet of designated roads ( I wonder how the backpackers are going to like this?). They allow one vehicle to go up to one mile off a designated road to retrieve Elk only in units 6A, 6B, 7E, 7W, and 8.

This will actually make for better hunting in my areas if everyone follows the rules, but I doubt this will happen. I also think they are going to have a lot of trouble enforcing this.

Terry

 

[Lv2hnt]

Most of us agree that the camping stipulations are what chaffs our hides the most. As for dispersed camping outside the 30-ft. corridors, it just means you must physically carry anything from your vehicle beyond that 30 feet (no driving it there and then returning to "legally" park your wheels). Shouldn't affect backpackers ...

Lv2hnt

"Every man dies --- not every man really lives."

 

[AZStickman]

Lv2..... That is one of the questions I had for Mike and you are correct..... "Vehicles" must remain within either the 300 ft or 400 foot margin depending on where you are..... Terry

 

[AZStickman]

That should have said 300ft or 30 foot margin..... Terry

 

[desertbucks]

We had a forest service ranger pull into camp this weekend, we were perfectly legal he just wanted to give me a updated map of the closed roads in the Coconino Forest. He also made sure we were camped within 100 yards of the main road. He said if anyone gets caught on a closed road by a ranger they will most likely get a warning the first time. He said it will not be a verbal but written warning. If you happen to get caught a second time and that ranger decides to give you warning the data base will show that you had a warning in the system and it will automatically send you $150-200 ticket in the mail. So follow the rules and you will have no problems.

I also mentioned to him that I have a 5bs archery bull elk tag and he informed me that all "5 units" have a no access retrieval to get game from the field by motorized vehicles. I thought this is a joke right and he said nope. I called the 5bs game ranger today and asked him about retrieving game and he said "that is a forest service rule that we dont agree with and we will not be enforcing it" he said the forest service will write tickets for it. He laso said that the Game & Fish have fought with the forest service on this subject and they have gotten no where with it.

 

[caelkhnter]

Well with the way it is now, why buy a Quad, or any type of off road vehicle anymore. They have basically limited access to roads that almost any 2 wheel drive vehicle can go.

 

[Boskee]

Good point CAelkhunter and if they take it to the extreme it's headed for in California you won't be able to use mules or horses to pack them out either!


It's all a well orchestrated plan to eliminate everybodies access and making hunting or using our resouces ( National Forests) for recreational purpose more difficult. When things become more difficult people tend to lose interest!

Me thinks there's going to be a whole lot of folks disappointed in this..... but they're going to tell them that's what the public wanted!!

This is just another example of how their back door methods, are legislating your rights away under the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION!!

Some of us told you this was coming .....but we were all wet..... Now get up and tell your fellow campers who did this to them!! The forest service doctrine mandates access and usage by the public for which the lands are entrusted! The enviromental lobby and Obama's appointed heads of the agencies are taking their orders from the top (Obama) and enacted these restrictions to our national lands.

How many people who hunt, camp, view wildlife, fish etc do you think this will effect (millions)? The greenies have a plan just like the anti hunting and anti gun folks and your current Democratic president. It's up to you to change their plans in November! Funny how we never had issues like these but now they're a big deal.

Public comment doesn't necessarily represent the views of the majority of end users only those that comment! They plan on that and use it to show their support for the cause. Start calling & emailing your Senators and Representatives in Washington and speak up. This is exactly why we need protective legislation in place to hunt and fish in this country. This didn't happen because they were interested in protecting your right to hunt and fish or have access to our public lands, so wake up and smell the coffee. The other guy isn't going to do it for you, so it's time for you to actually get up off your azz and make an effort and call!

Think about this? If you lose interest and don't hunt any longer why do you need a gun? If Obama was really concerned about your rights or thought he had any exposure on this, do you think he would have told them to take action on this, knowing full well that it effects millions of people in an election year? NO way in hell because it's all being done behind your back and your input was very carefully omitted in the process!

It's the old Washington two step and you didn't have a choice or say in the matter, yet the comments overwhelmingly support the change! These changes brought to you courtesy of the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION........REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!!

 

[huntin50]

Good Post Boskee.

 

[Gator]

so this year is a free-be if they catch you is that what I'm hearing.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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[oilcan]

I have not been following this topic that close but was wondering if these closures apply to 12AW unit also?

 

[hornhunter247]

Well let me just start by saying that yes they are enforcing these new rules! I was in 9 shed hunting in march and saw the FS and G&F almost daily. They did have an airplane out and was catching a lot of people off roads and on closed roads. They will give you a map and if they catch you again on a closed road you'll receive a ticket, and I believe its around 450 bucks. I know some friends of mine from utah thought we were bs'n them and got nailed off road on their bikes.

We didn't camp 30 feet off the road and they really didn't hassle us to much about it, only because I had my kids there and told them I wouldn't move closer to traffic and I will gladly fight that because I was camped on a spur that I have camped at for the last 20 yrs!

Get ready guys because it has changed and just because someone hasn't been caught yet doesn't mean you won't! The FS is asking for opinions on this. I like the closing of roads but have submitted my reply to them about leaving the camping spurs open.


I just call em as I see em!