Colder Oceans

202typical

Long Time Member
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This comes as no great shock, since the Arctic has the most ice in its cap since 1979. However, the data tends to support those who theorize that warming and cooling cycles are nothing more than that, and undermine the argument for global warming as a consequence of carbon dioxide. It also explains why the last two winters have gotten longer and colder instead of shorter and warmer:

Two separate studies through NASA confirm that since 2003, the world?s oceans have been losing heat. In the peak of the recent warming trend, 1998 actually ranked 2nd to 1934 as the warmest year on record.

John Willis, an oceanographer at NASA?s Jet Propulsion Lab, published his first report about the warming oceans. The article Correcting Ocean Cooling (see below) published on NASA?s Earth Observatory page this week discussed his and other results. willis used data from1993-2003 that showed the warm-up and followed the Global Warming Theory. In 2006, he co-piloted a follow-up study led by John Lyman at Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle that updated the time series for 2003-2005. Surprisingly, the ocean seemed to have cooled. He was surprised, and called it a ?speed bump? on the way to global warming.

A second, independent study was conducted. Takmeng Wong and his colleagues at NASA?s Langley Research Center in Virginia came up with the same results. Wong studies net flux of solar energy at the top of our atmosphere. From the 1980s to 1990s his team noticed increased amounts net energy when comparing incoming solar energy to what Earth radiates and reflects. Since then, the solar flux has remained the same. Other studies have suggested that the sun?s output has decreased in the past few years.

In fairness, though, the NASA paper to which this site links comes up with a very different explanation. Research discovered problems with specific kinds of sensors used for decades in ocean temperature surveys. Older XBT data gave data biased towards warmer temperature readings, while newer Argo floats were biased in the opposite direction.

This leads to another problem, however. Much of the actual ocean temperature data for the past few decades came from these probes; the rest, according to the paper, came primarily from satellite data, ships, and computer models. The NASA paper claims to have pulled out the bad data and corrected for it so that their new data matches the computer models that support global-warming theories.

But is that real, or just an attempt to fit data points into preconceived models? The only direct measurements would have come from ships, and is that really enough to even have a reliable record of ocean temperatures?

Bad data leads to bad conclusions, regardless of whether it matches pre-conceived notions or not.
 
I sure see a lot of conflicting data on this issue, I just saw a news clip showing a huge ice shelf about to break off from the Antarctic
 
Relax, boys. Now that we've got President Obama, global warming is going to go away... }>
 
Yes Piper - keep watching the news! They have it correct and have no hidden agenda. Pretty soon we will all be able to go for a nice vacation on the warm sunny beaches of Antartica. In fact, if you are interested, I am starting a time-share for down there - if you buy in now, you will get locked in at the lowest rate possible! Please just send me your check!

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Roy- I didn't see any hidden agenda in that news clip, but whatever, I do know that something is killing all these trees, a change in the climate seems likely to be the reason, those are the only kinds of things I can see without using the media. What I find strange, is the belief in so many that man couldn't have an impact on the climate, and its all a conspiracy. would religion have anything to do with that?
 
I believe man made global warming is true bullcrap. But I saw the same thing piper did, Huge shelf about to break away, then same week that we have move ice then we have ever had since 1979.. word out is conflicting as hell... very frustrating the scientists dont sit there butts down and come to some conclusion and stick if all over Fox News.. but ya, liberal press is going to slant it ever chance they get..
 
>That may be correct, but why
>take a chance?
>
>Eel


Why change our whole economic structure on something that has been proven as totally false?

Where the hell is that pie chart that was on here few days ago? 95% of global warming gases come from our oceans, not a damn thing we can do about it, is what graph had
 
Most of you couldn't tell us how your automatic transmission works but you know for an absolute fact man can't have an effect on global warming. why do I find that so amusing?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-09 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]I never said that man couldn't have an effect on global warming - if in fact it exists or is proven to be a phenomenon totally independent of any cyclical pattern the earth hasn't already experienced time and time again before or after the presence of man on earth!

Prove that to me and then I may begin to believe that man may have an effect on our climate.

The truth is that you can't! And global warming, or climate change, as it is now being hailed in all scientific and academic circles, is really only a theory based on a wide variety of not necessarily related wide-scale observations and recent very localized patterns. The science hasn't convinced me yet! And there are way too many factors to be considered to narrow it down to just one or two main things and say that this or that will fix the problem. Sorry, but it just does not appear to be good science to definitively say what it is and what is causing it at this point. I have had enough direct contact with university scientists who argue on both sides of the equation and enough of a scientific education (I graduated with a Chemistry minor and was only two credits shy of a Geology minor, four shy of one in Biology) to see and appreciate both sides of the argument and allow make my own educated opinion on the matter. And my opinion is that while there may be some truth to some of the observations associated with climate change, it still remains to be seen just
what effect this will have on the planet as a whole.

Because of my background in Geology and Chemistry I know that scientists judge and try to understand the earth through the observation of on going processes. Take for instance the age of the earth, 4.6 billion years. Well how was that number determined? Is it random? Is it arbitrary? Is it even based on carbon dating? NO - it is not. Carbon dating is only accurate for about 70,000 years and its accuracy is very debatable and uses the classic "all things being equal" assumption. So how do they determine the age of the earth to be 4.6 billion years? By observing current geologic processes and using mathematical extrapolations to calculate backwards to see how long it would have taken to form the earth into is present state if things have always progressed at current observed speeds. So they get a relative age and continually test that age against new geologic data being compiled daily. And yes the scientific community has pretty much come to a 100% consensus that the earth is indeed several billion years old and that that number is an estimate.

So if the earth then is estimated to be 4.6 billion years old, are you really standing there telling me that little old man, who has only been on her face for at best 4 million years (a veritable blip on a geologic time line) is going to destroy her based on at most 300 years - and only 70 or so of that global and reliable - data? GIVE ME A BREAK. Sorry - the science just doesn't convince me!

To tell the truth climate change has always been more political than scientific. And sure go ahead and give half of a Nobel Prize (and don't forget he only won half of it - the IPCC won the other half and it was the PEACE prize - not for scientific achievement!) and an Oscar to Al Gore for his "efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change" but don't tell me that his motives are scientific and not political! His little movie and presentation, while appearing convincing has some big big holes in it that he refuses and cannot explain.

The link Eel posted isn't just some obscure reference pulled off of some right wing blog either. It comes from the US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. And it certainly looks to me that the "consensus" on mad made global climate change is weakening.

Please notice that I never said anything about religion.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
"Most of you couldn't tell us how your automatic transmission works but you know for an absolute fact man can't have an effect on global warming. why do I find that so amusing? "

...and that folks is the mindset. You cannot have a say, you cannot have an opinion, and you certainly cannot voice it. Don't you understand? You're too stuuuuuupid to possibly comprehend the complex nature of the universe. Leave it up to the learned and liberal. They will take care of you.





"You socialists are getting as reprehensible as the poor little rich boy who still lives on his mommy and daddys farm, has it made, but still spends about 8 hours a day on here hating every thing he sees.

Sad and pathetic." -- JimNv
 
Roy you don't have to convince me climate change is natural, I agree. the problem is we don't know if we're having an impact now ot not, global warming is an undisputed fact, cause is the debate and you can't prove we aren't part of this change. I'll say it again, since we can't prove either way at the moment we have to keep an open mind.


1911 you're free to have an opinion, but it doesn't count for much. if the top scientific minds in the world are in a heated debate on this subject you want us to take in to serious consideration your opinion? why not just take a poll at the local bar and put this debate behind us? give me a break, for either one of us to claim we know would prove we're too stupid to have an opinion.

By the way, I hear they're have a few problems on the superconducting super collider, why don't you give them a buzz and set them right? they could use a guy with your knowledge.
 
How many of the ASE certified scientists of 'yore were just positive the plain of the globe was flat? To pretend that no alternative theory of global climate change exists but one is simply absurd. And lest we forget, they are all just theory.

I'm just glad that not everyone was as easy to control by the Queens scientists of the age. For everyone knew if you take that ship too far you're gonna fall off the planet. Opps..they were wrong.

Some oceanic scientist was in town yesterday to spread the good word that we need to change or face certain peril. ...oh and she needs more money. How nice it would be to atain the status of the elite and politically correct scientifically minded. Then I could play chicken little, while doing all the bad things I warn about, in the name of reeeeeesearch. But certainly there is no power or recreactional enjoyment of traveling the globe, diving the coral reefs, and telling others not to do the same.
 
Good point Roy, it makes you ponder why Politicians are all nervous about Global Warming and not scientist's so much.

I believe the reason politicians including, Gore, McCain, OB, as well as others, here and abroad, are making sure everyone is scared about Global Warming, is of course money, nothing else. Al Gore just happened to be the one who, saw an opening, lobbied for support and got in on the ground floor and is raking in the cash.
If there is enough "Fear" in the world about global warming, regardless of it's authenticity, it creates a market. A market for Carbon Credits.
Govermental agencies institute caps on CO2 emissions, then a "market" develops for the buying and selling of emissions "allowances" or these Carbon Credits. Companies that come in under the cap can sell, or trade, their "credits" on the CCX and ECX. Just like the stockmarket, a cap and market trading system. Politicians invest and make money. Their all crooked, but their all rich.
Yeah I know I only have 4 post's. Blah, Blah, Blah. I just don't get compelled enough to type very often.
 
So you don't have a clue just an opinion, I don't know either so the fact I'll admit it is the only difference between us on this.
 
>I sure see a lot of
>conflicting data on this issue,
>I just saw a news
>clip showing a huge ice
>shelf about to break off
>from the Antarctic


Piper

Didn't you catch the part about it breaking off not melting?
 
We just don't know, most of us agree on that. I would be more inclined to believe the Al Gores if I thought for an instant that they really cared themselves. I think they're in it for their own ego and to get filthy rich. They could not care less about you or me, or the environment for that matter.

There were over 500 private jets that flew into DC for the inauguration. The inaugeration of the new leader to the global warming cause. Imagine the carbon footprint 500 private jets make. They want us to put in low flush toilets while they put in Olympic sized swimming pools.

Hey Hollywood, bite me!

Eel
 

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