College v. Trade school

Interesting indeed. The study was designed and done by people with college degrees.

In my line of work, I'd hire a Lease Operator with 3 yrs experience and a college degree over someone with 10 yrs experience and a high school diploma...
 
Were going to have 100 over educated computer geeks for each tradesman who can fix their meter base, A/C or electric car. someone who can , and will, actually fix something with their hands will dominate the future.

It's already started, $204 and hour for a mechanic, $46 for a truck driver, $65 for a journeyman, $80 for a body shop tech. and they can get a job in 5 minutes anywhere .
 
A lot depends upon the profession. Most natural resources jobs require a degree and sometimes even a master's degree to be eligible.

I have definitely enjoyed my natural resource related job over my career. I certainly didn't get rich but it is a satisfying job working in the outdoors. I can't imagine being cooped up in an office or shop all day long.
 
I’ve taught trades for more than 20 years. Most students, in my opinion, are better off going the trade route. Often times, the pay is higher and the tuition is much lower. A good tradesman is rarely unemployed.

College degrees are great if the correct one is chosen. My oldest son went the trade route and then went on to finish his degree in Electrical Engineering. He will make more money with the combination of the trade certificate and college degree.

My other two sons went the tech trade route and do well and best of all, no student loans.

I have many students that tell me they want to go to college yet have no idea which degree or what job they are going to pursue. I think college is a mistake if they do not have a good plan and the pursuit of degree that is actually in demand.

I have heard people call in on the Dave Ramsey show and claim they have a few hundred thousand dollars in debt and have a 4 year degree in psychology. Then, they claim they are going to go to graduate school.
 
Good Lord…..

“….surveyed opinions from 70,000 small businesses between Oct. 25 and Oct. 30, with 905 respondents…..” :rolleyes:

Everyone except for the Goobermint/Educational Industrial Complex already knew skool curriculum was failing our graduates.

One important distinction between blue/white collar workers is the longevity of your “career”. You can ride a desk a lot longer than you can perform physical labor.
 
I have a two year degree in management from a Community College. I started out at the university but got into some trouble with focus after a few semesters and was dismissed until I brought up my grades. I was young and dumb. The Community College is good because anyone in the community can go. The ones around me have lots of trade options like welding and automotive too.
 
They should have split it in 3rds.

My wife has accounting teams all over the world. She has billers that worked their way through school to be accountants having started with diploma. She has college trained accountants. Then she has grad school mba.

She is involved in all the hiring and is very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees. She prefers the community or state school people who had jobs(not internships), throughout school.


I'm pushing my senior to get any gov job he can find, then get schooling that helps in that field
 
Captain_coues said:
I have a two year degree in management from a Community College. I started out at the university but got into some trouble with focus after a few semesters and was dismissed until I brought up my grades. I was young and dumb. The Community College is good because anyone in the community can go. The ones around me have lots of trade options like welding and automotive too.
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And many community colleges with trades programs are plugged into local industry for better job placement upon completion as well.
 
hossblur said:
They should have split it in 3rds.

My wife has accounting teams all over the world. She has billers that worked their way through school to be accountants having started with diploma. She has college trained accountants. Then she has grad school mba.

She is involved in all the hiring and is very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees. She prefers the community or state school people who had jobs(not internships), throughout school.


I'm pushing my senior to get any gov job he can find, then get schooling that helps in that field
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I lasted almost one semester in the dorms. I had asked to be placed in the engineering section, but got placed with the football players. In today's world I cannot disagree with her observations.

Still had a 30 - 40 hour job for nearly all of my 8.5 years in college. Best job....Greyhound bus station.
 
The first thing someone needs to ask themselves is what kind of career will meet my needs and goals over a lifetime of work. Until you have a good idea of what you want to do it's a Waste of time and money to go to school. Too many kids have zero idea after high school of what they want to do and enroll in college and spend time and money studying subjects that won't help them in their future. Trade schools and colleges are both good....just have a IDEA before you jump in.
I was lucky enough to know what I wanted to do when I started college 52 years ago. I wanted to start a food distribution business and build it through hard work and the knowledge I gained with a business degree. I'm blessed and thankful the plan worked.
 
The biggest difference I have noticed between dudes/dudettes with degrees or multiple degrees and those welders, bricklayer, drywallers, etc. Is that most of the former are too uppity to hang around with. That difference has nothing to do with intelligence and, perhaps, more to do with a bit of indoctrination.
 
feddoc said:
The biggest difference I have noticed between dudes/dudettes with degrees or multiple degrees and those welders, bricklayer, drywallers, etc. Is that most of the former are too uppity to hang around with. That difference has nothing to do with intelligence and, perhaps, more to do with a bit of indoctrination.
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Very true.
 
feddoc said:
The biggest difference I have noticed between dudes/dudettes with degrees or multiple degrees and those welders, bricklayer, drywallers, etc. Is that most of the former are too uppity to hang around with. That difference has nothing to do with intelligence and, perhaps, more to do with a bit of indoctrination.
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I don't like drywallers either
 
I’ve been an electrician for almost ten years. The sky is really the limit on the money that can be made. With that being said I make more working for a company, then most of my high school friends do with college degrees. Yes there are a couple that went in for hard sciences that do well.
 
hossblur said:
They should have split it in 3rds.

My wife has accounting teams all over the world. She has billers that worked their way through school to be accountants having started with diploma. She has college trained accountants. Then she has grad school mba.

She is involved in all the hiring and is very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees. She prefers the community or state school people who had jobs(not internships), throughout school.


I'm pushing my senior to get any gov job he can find, then get schooling that helps in that field
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Odd. Colorado School of Mines (a serious engineering school) REQUIRES all incoming freshmen to live on campus for their first year.

This is in response to the nature of todays STEM kids - nerds who spent all of their time immersed in the career path that mommy and daddy have had them on since they were toddlers (as I did). It is an essential part of these kids becoming socialized and building a safety net of peers.

We (work) made a concerted effort to see that blue collar people had a career path to a corner office just like the college boys did, and tried our best to make sure they were compensated similarly. But ultimately compensation comes down to commitment, responsibility, and sacrifice - not a price everyone is willing to pay. Most of us could only do it for a few years.

I spent the last 5 years of my career traveling around the country hiring big $ executives. The trick is figuring out who can start a lawn mower.
 
hossblur said:
...very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees.
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That's a poor metric to use. Not all kids living on campus don't live the college life on loans and mommy and daddy's money.

In all honesty, it's nobody's business where the candidate for hire lived or how they paid for school and quite frankly is illegal to even ask.

Just so you know...
 
roadrunner said:
That's a poor metric to use. Not all kids living on campus don't live the college life on loans and mommy and daddy's money.

In all honesty, it's nobody's business where the candidate for hire lived or how they paid for school and quite frankly is illegal to even ask.

Just so you know...
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You don't have to ask questions to get answers.

And yeah, if your an accountant, that is hired to watch a companies money, a simple "tell" is did you borrow more than the job you applied for pays. Did you borrow $$ at a higher rate to finance your drinking, partying and "finding yourself".

Might not be true in other fields, but supposedly, your educated in finance/accounting, college is a simple cost benefit analysis.

State schools, and community schools teach excell same as expensive ones.

The WORST supers were always the construction management folks. Always. But, because HR departments are involved in hiring, that piece of paper meant more than a guy being able to build something, or deal with the blue collar dudes.
 
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Work ethic plays a part in it too. The most educated worker in the world is no good if they're not there. I've taken away a few jobs from more qualified people just because I showed up every day ready to work and learn. No rocket science jobs though, just "skilled" grunt work. :)
 
A couple of things I know.
1. If the pipes in my house burst, I'm not calling my doctor.
2. If I have a heart attack, I hope the ambulance doesn't take me to my electrician.
3. If you are dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education, you are a sucker. Colleges will literally throw money at your kids if they are slightly talented at anything.
Colleges and trade schools just serve different types of people. You can be successful at either or be a total POS at either.
 
hossblur said:
They should have split it in 3rds.

My wife has accounting teams all over the world. She has billers that worked their way through school to be accountants having started with diploma. She has college trained accountants. Then she has grad school mba.

She is involved in all the hiring and is very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees. She prefers the community or state school people who had jobs(not internships), throughout school.


I'm pushing my senior to get any gov job he can find, then get schooling that helps in that field
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Hoss:
In reply to your last sentence…

I encouraged my oldest to do the same. He did and was hired for a “gov job”. They are/were really recruiting STEM students. They paid for him to finish his bachelor degree in EE and put him on full time when he was finished (he worked summers until he graduated).

He applied and was accepted to complete his Masters in EE. His employer (government) are paying for the degree (he has 1 year to finish). He works summers and does not work during the time he is taking full time courses. They still pay him his full time salary while he is completing his degree.

He is required to make a five year employment commitment. He likely makes a bit less than he could in the private sector but given the benefits, work schedule, and overall job, I doubt that he will leave.

For what it’s worth, you are offering him some great advice….
 
woodruffhunter said:
Hoss:
In reply to your last sentence…

I encouraged my oldest to do the same. He did and was hired for a “gov job”. They are/were really recruiting STEM students. They paid for him to finish his bachelor degree in EE and put him on full time when he was finished (he worked summers until he graduated).

He applied and was accepted to complete his Masters in EE. His employer (government) are paying for the degree (he has 1 year to finish). He works summers and does not work during the time he is taking full time courses. They still pay him his full time salary while he is completing his degree.

He is required to make a five year employment commitment. He likely makes a bit less than he could in the private sector but given the benefits, work schedule, and overall job, I doubt that he will leave.

For what it’s worth, you are offering him some great advice….
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That's the path I'm trying to push. Especially for a kid that doesn't have an idea of a career path, but would LOVE the college "experience"
 
hossblur said:
They should have split it in 3rds.

My wife has accounting teams all over the world. She has billers that worked their way through school to be accountants having started with diploma. She has college trained accountants. Then she has grad school mba.

She is involved in all the hiring and is very adamant in trying to not hire kids who lived on campus. 4 years of living the college life on loans and mommy and daddy don't make good employees. She prefers the community or state school people who had jobs(not internships), throughout school.


I'm pushing my senior to get any gov job he can find, then get schooling that helps in that field
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I agree with hiring people that have a job history and a school history. I have a few young people close to me and they never had any real jobs except maybe a seasonal one for a week or two. Once they graduated, they now learn to show up on time, put up with bosses they don’t like, take orders, and be civil when faced with disagreements or something unpleasant.

I screwed up when I went to the university. Mom and dad helped with the cost and I had one scholarship. All I had to do was finish. I changed degrees from forestry to construction management after I got kicked out. I covered most of the cost, but parents helped a lot too. My second time around was much better and I had good grades.

My dad went to A&P school in Denver and worked in a power plant after not making enough money fixing planes.
 
Rie bread said:
Water treatment and wastewater treatment are excellent ways to get a good stable job. It’s changed my life around, not exactly the coolest line of work but it’s not to hard on the body and engaging enough
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Plus there are all the balloons and party whistles. I didn’t stick around to see what else went up the old school Archimedes Screw.

The nastiest place I’ve ever been is a WWTP.
 
Rie bread said:
Water treatment and wastewater treatment are excellent ways to get a good stable job. It’s changed my life around, not exactly the coolest line of work but it’s not to hard on the body and engaging enough
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Both disciplines are going to be hurting in the next 5 years. The conventions I attend have a lot of grey hair.
 
Bluehair said:
Plus there are all the balloons and party whistles. I didn’t stick around to see what else went up the old school Archimedes Screw.

The nastiest place I’ve ever been is a WWTP.
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what were you expecting? The balloons and party whistles? It’s always nasty but you learn to close your mouth and wear ppe
 
Rie bread said:
what were you expecting? The balloons and party whistles? It’s always nasty but you learn to close your mouth and wear ppe
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Well, that particular plant was Window Rock, AZ. It was nothing like Newtown Creek (NY - 310 million gpd) or the UV water treatment facilities at Cat-Del or Croton (2.2 BILLION gpd and 310 million gpd respectively). In fact, I can’t even remember how many plants I’ve been in.;)

Point being that they aren’t all the same, and some are in fact nasty beyond the capabilities of ordinary ppe.

Its not often you get to flex on turd laundries :ROFLMAO:
 
feddoc said:
I lasted almost one semester in the dorms. I had asked to be placed in the engineering section, but got placed with the football players. In today's world I cannot disagree with her observations.

Still had a 30 - 40 hour job for nearly all of my 8.5 years in college. Best job....Greyhound bus station.
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My best job was a driver for the salvation army $2.25 an hour
 
Bluehair said:
Well, that particular plant was Window Rock, AZ. It was nothing like Newtown Creek (NY - 310 million gpd) or the UV water treatment facilities at Cat-Del or Croton (2.2 BILLION gpd and 310 million gpd respectively). In fact, I can’t even remember how many plants I’ve been in.;)

Point being that they aren’t all the same, and some are in fact nasty beyond the capabilities of ordinary ppe.

Its not often you get to flex on turd laundries :ROFLMAO:
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Some of those bar screen in those mega millions pants are crazy! Three stories tall!

Do you work in the UV systems?
 
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Rie bread said:
Some of those bar screen in those mega millions pants are crazy! Three stories tall!

Do you work in the UV systems?
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No, we built plants. My group just did small ones. They used to make me go to those big ones so the NYers could show off. It’s a NY thing.
 
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SS! said:
look @BuzzH the guy who always complains you’re a govt employee wants his kids to follow in your footsteps. Hahahahaha
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Damn straight. Look at Buzz. "Works" almost 5 months a year. Is omnipotent. Single handedly controls wildlife and land use policy in Wyoming. Is a you tube hunting celebrity. The gov fears him. Women everywhere fantasize about him. Who doesn't want to follow in those petite little size 8.5?
 
hossblur said:
Damn straight. Look at Buzz. "Works" almost 5 months a year. Is omnipotent. Single handedly controls wildlife and land use policy in Wyoming. Is a you tube hunting celebrity. The gov fears him. Women everywhere fantasize about him. Who doesn't want to follow in those petite little size 8.5?
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It’s ok to be jealous of someone, but you sure do have a weird way of showing it.
 

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