commercial hunting

M

mntman

Long Time Member
Messages
3,788
New Jersey is looking into hunters being able to sell their venison.. Not sure how I feel about this, has a very bad and steep slippery slope.
Could have some benefits but I don't think they are worth the risks.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2014...1&spJobID=561735761&spReportId=NTYxNzM1NzYxS0


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
Totally good with it as long as the tag system there is moved towards a seasonless quota system with all kills reported.
 
I certainly hope this isn't part of your plan to "fix" our "broken" wildlife management system?
 
You better believe it is DW. Go look at my other thread called TAMALES! That is what is coming like a tidal wave. Right now they don't give a flip about your wildlife model and they are going to demolish it because your deer are worthless. I have told you it is coming for two years. Just wait and see what happens when the economy tanks again.
 
3430groupshot95cropped95ears.jpg

I like it just as it is! :D
 
Whats amazing DW is you don't see the problem with your picture. I never knew a cow that didn't like a feed lot either. Ignorance is bliss.
 
This is a colorado unit managed for quantity tri. A few years ago u could shoot 2 elk because it was way over objective. U could get a pp and 2 tags. It's come into objective #'s in recent yrs and it's back to 1 tag. This isn't like the le units of utah. Colorado has maintained a large healthy elk pop of around 300k for yrs, and I, like many, think the system is fine in colorado. You allow meat to b sold u will incentivize poaching in my opinion
 
What happens when u legalize the sale and the economy tanks? More game is poached or less?
 
Dw,

First I wasn't complaining of the number of dead young bulls in that picture. I could care less. I am talking about five old men hunting with one young man. Thats your future under the current plan. Enjoy.

As for your poaching question that is a good one. More than likely poaching WILL increase in an economic downturn. However it will not be as severe as if there were no commercial meat hunting.
 
WHO U CALLIN OLD! :D I've got nephews and nieces comin up and the young fella in the pics got a brother and sister. Look for them in future pics!
 
The idea of it strikes me as one of the very worst possible things that could happen to the deer that we like to hunt.

If you think that some are over aggressive and bend the laws when gathering drop horn, that's nothing when compared to similar groups or guys that would claim, "We're just trying to get a little exercise and sell a little venison"

Only the most aggressively protected private lands would soon hold any game at all!

Tri, i got a cousin starting College soon and a buddy who just bought his first home. They, like me, are banking in the future, don't believe the world as we know it is ending any time soon.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Allowing the sale of harvested wild game will be a incentive for many to poach deer and sell the meat. One of the reasons CA. does not allow any commercial selling of the meat or any part of a wild game animal.
It would be far more difficult for game wardens to collect enough evidence for poachers who are selling meat and are smart enough to have a deer tag filled out and kill several more animals for commercial sale and claim it was meat from his legal kill. They will have to go to the expense of DNA testing to prove it was from a deer the poacher killed illegally versus the legal deer he tagged.

RELH
 
Actually guys this is exceptionally easy to enforce if we adhere to the rules which I posted above. First there is a strict quota system. That means all deer. Both sport hunted and commercial. And second ALL deer must be checked. All deer in question can be quickly verified. Anyone with an unchecked deer is subject to prosecution.
 
You aren't going to try to catch the people with one pound packages. You catch the killers. That's the whole point of having every deer checked in. The state knows exactly who killed legally. If you are caught in the field with a dead deer and the state knows you already checked your quota your screwed.

Here's actually the best part that you aren't thinking about. When all the legal commercial hunters hit the woods they will be looking for poachers also because their money depends on it. Its not just a hobby for them.
 
It sounds like New Jersey is facing a deer "crisis" at the present. There just aren't enough hunters to thin the herd. A temporary commercial season seems like a plausible solution to me. It brings in revenue to the F&G, provides income (maybe just pays expenses to the "hunter"), allows people who don't hunt the opportunity to enjoy some venison, and reduces deer numbers to protect the habitat, and reduces deer/car collisions.

It seems to be a good idea to try. Do it for 1 year and then see how it goes.

We can only wish our mule deer numbers were so high!

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
I lived in a state that had to register deer after kill. What prevents, and how do u catch the guy that shoots 50, registers his last 1, process' them himself and sells em 10 lbs at a time? My incentive under the current system to TIP is they are stealing my resource! I know that's not something u believe in from past theads but it's a fact.
 
Party hunting was legal,1 yr I shot 7 in a 9 day season. Archery seasons 3 and a half months long.
 
"I lived in a state that had to register deer after kill. What prevents, and how do u catch the guy that shoots 50, registers his last 1, process' them himself and sells em 10 lbs at a time?"

The exact same thing that prevents him from doing it now.


" My incentive under the current system to TIP is they are stealing my resource!"

Are the fur trappers stealing YOUR resource? They have been doing this for decades. Are all the bobcat gone? Has the system been abused so that its impossible for you to get a bobcat if you want it?

" I know that's not something u believe in from past theads but it's a fact."

It isn't a fact at all. How do you steal an animal that's already been declared "yours". Only DW has animals??????? No one else gets animals or gets to decide their use unless you say its OK???? That's not how this works and whether you want to admit it or not it never has worked that way.
 
Jack and jill with there 3 kids down the street don't have much use for a bobcat pelt, but 10 lbs of venison is somethin easily sold, consumed and nobody knows about it.
 
>"I lived in a state that
>had to register deer after
>kill. What prevents, and how
>do u catch the guy
>that shoots 50, registers his
>last 1, process' them himself
>and sells em 10 lbs
>at a time?"
>
>The exact same thing that prevents
>him from doing it now.
>
>BUT NOW HE CAN EASILY "LEGALLY" SELL IT
>
>" My incentive under the current
>system to TIP is they
>are stealing my resource!"
>
>Are the fur trappers stealing YOUR
>resource? They have been
>doing this for decades.
>Are all the bobcat gone?
> Has the system been
>abused so that its impossible
>for you to get a
>bobcat if you want it?
>
>
>" I know that's not something
>u believe in from past
>theads but it's a fact."
>
>
>It isn't a fact at all.
> How do you steal
>an animal that's already been
>declared "yours". Only DW
>has animals??????? No one
>else gets animals or gets
>to decide their use unless
>you say its OK????
>That's not how this works
>and whether you want to
>admit it or not it
>never has worked that way.
>


MY WAS AN OBVIOUS FIGURE OF SPEECH. IT'S OUR RENEWABLE RESOURCE
 
TriState, you are being a fool if you think it will be easy to regulate commercial selling to prevent poaching. You need to brush up on the laws that is required to convict in a court of law.
A good majority of poachers are not caught in the field as you suggest. This is very true of professional poachers. They are caught later due to tips called in or them getting stupid and posting big racks on facebook. wardens go in with search warrant find the recent killed deer horns with no tags. Those horns are the evidence that will get the conviction in court for poaching.

Now as for the meat. Poacher has a tag for deer to sell if he wants. He will not be shooting bucks for the meat deer, he will be shooting the female does to rack up a good amount of meat. Warden gets tip he is selling a lot of meat. They go in and find about 40 pounds of package meat in his freezer, as he has sold off the other 140 lbs from several deer.
He shows them his filled out deer tag that was punched at the check station that you required to curb poaching , and stated the 40 pounds of meat in the freezer is from that deer.

Now the warden is faced with a situation where it is reasonable to believe he has no crime and can not seize the meat for testing without violating the poacher's 4th. amendment rights. Also if it was a doe that was checked in at the checkpoint station, there is no horns to compare DNA testing with and if he got rid of the hide, there is nothing to compare with to show he killed more then the deer he checked in as required by your idea of how to curb any poaching.

If you think allowing commercial hunting and selling of deer meat will not foster more poaching, you are being a fool. The money incentive will enough for many to poach and sell meat just as we already have many hunters poaching big racks for their bragging rights and even money.

RELH
 
Tristate, don't you have a phone call to make?


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Relh,

If a warden has enough to get a warrant to search a house for horns or other parts like they do now he will have just as much to collect DNA off of meat. No 4th violation. It takes just as much, no more, effort to catch a meat poacher as a horn poacher. Not a bit of difference. There is no fancy complication from the constitution.

If you think poaching will be worse you are the fool Relh.

When the government said booze was illegal guess what happened. Criminals got rich selling booze illegally. When the world said ivory trade is illegal guess what happened. The poachers get all the ivory now and it costs more money because of higher risk so it attracts more people to poach more ivory. It has actually exploded poaching.

When government cuts off people from what they DEMAND they get it anyway and only the criminals prosper. When government regulates the demand then it can work.
 
NVB,

No I do not. Do you need me to call someone for you? Are you ok? I get it. Time to worship. I know.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-14 AT 02:27PM (MST)[p]Tristate, You are wrong about the search warrant. It will have to be specific as what can or can not be taken. I should know I have drawn up hundreds of search warrants and even had one fly by the judge that the D.A. told me it would not be signed by him due to the information being over 30 days old. I was able to document that the suspect had converted some of the property to his own use and the judge agreed with my request being "reasonable"
Why don't you go talk with several good wardens and see what they think about selling game meat will make their job harder and if it will result in more poaching. Instead of giving your non professional armchair B.S.

As for selling the meat now illegally, all the warden has to proof is the fact he sold meat and that is a violation in itself. Far easier to prove now then it would be if commercial sales would be made legal. Has your common sense left you?

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-14 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]Silly boy RELH. You should know that Tri has more experience and more friends with experience with this sort of thing than any old retired LEO. ;-)

For the record I do not have an opinion on New Jersey and their deer laws. I only know that I've heard they kill more deer on the freeway annually than we even have tags for in most western states. It's pretty foolish to say what might work there will work here.

Oh and my money is on the "old retired LEO" being the right wagon to hitch up to.



Edit: Next you will be told you're "full of chit" because you referred top them as "does".


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
>Relh,
>
>If a warden has enough to
>get a warrant to search
>a house for horns or
>other parts like they do
>now he will have just
>as much to collect DNA
>off of meat. No
>4th violation. It takes
>just as much, no more,
>effort to catch a meat
>poacher as a horn poacher.
> Not a bit of
>difference. There is no
>fancy complication from the constitution.
>
>
>If you think poaching will be
>worse you are the fool
>Relh.
>
>When the government said booze was
>illegal guess what happened.
>Criminals got rich selling booze
>illegally. When the world
>said ivory trade is illegal
>guess what happened. The
>poachers get all the ivory
>now and it costs more
>money because of higher risk
>so it attracts more people
>to poach more ivory.
>It has actually exploded poaching.
>
>
>When government cuts off people from
>what they DEMAND they get
>it anyway and only the
>criminals prosper. When government
>regulates the demand then it
>can work.
>
>


It was legal to sell ivory then the made it illegal. It was legal to sell liquor then they made it illegal. Lets avoid all that and just never make it legal to sell in the first place, thus never establishing the infrastructure of a marketplace!
 
So your trying to tell me that a judge will give you a search warrant to search for horns but won't give you one to search for meat????? Go sell that bull to someone else.


By the way nvb the last time we had a legal battle on here I took on a reported LEO and a district attorney along with several lawyers. Guess who ended up being right?

If a judge will give you a warrant for horns he will give you one for meat.


why would it make their job harder? It's still the same number of deer getting killed. The same number being protected. What are they scared they will have to do a little more thinking?

By the way if you go back and look what I stated I specifically said we would have to change to a quota system. If you do that you can get rid of spotlight laws and season dates. Guess what their job just got easier.
 
>By the way nvb the last
>time we had a legal
>battle on here I took
>on a reported LEO and
>a district attorney along with
>several lawyers. Guess who
>ended up being right?
>
>

A legal battle??? Ha ha ha! This is the ******** internet dumbass! Get over yourself. A supreme court justice you will never be.


How about the time you took on two B&C official measurers? Still waiting on that evidence you were gonna work on "your honor".


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Why is "your honor" in quotations? Do you know what quotations are for?

I guess you do remember what happened last time we had a legal discussion on here.

By the way I like how you think i " took on" like there was some epic Internet battle.

You still just have your panties in a twist because you don't understand how to manage your "does".
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-14 AT 04:20PM (MST)[p]"took on" was your choice of words "like there was some epic Internet battle".

Do I need to google the use of quotation marks to show you what they mean? To use them I dont have to be quoting you. I realize you think the world revovles around you but there are few billion other people out there.


I understand completely how to manage my does. You dont seem to realize that we dont have surplus does in most Nevada units to manage like you think is the way to manage them.

Your phone not working? Or are you busy writing legal briefs and motions regarding B&C rules.

Again, its the internet dumbass.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
I guess you do remember and you missed the joke about your "does".

Just like most worshippers you are so fiery and emotional.

I love your line of "Do I need to Google". That's as good as " internet proof".
 
I do not believe in anyway how allowing commercial hunting will reduce poaching opportunities.
There is no way, when the gov't allows money to be involved it then gives incentive to the bad guys.

Thus poaching is the entire reason that the ban of selling wild game was instituted in the first place over 100 years ago. ALL wildlife had crashed from commercial hunting and has rebounded to the point we are at now by banning it (obviously there are other management factors in play due to their rebound).

Money is the driving factor in today's society which is why this proposal came up because they haven't figured out another way to reduce the deer population. They need to think outside of the box though to increase deer harvest.
Maybe through some use of tax incentive for hunters, free tags after 2nd harvest for residents and non-residents, or make a marketing push for donating meat to homeless shelters.

I understand the commercial side of it and IF there was a way to prevent over harvest then it would be good, but I do not see any way in doing that.
MONEY equals CORRUPTION.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
>
>Just like most worshippers you are
>so fiery and emotional.
>

Ha ha! You really are a dumbass if you think Im being fiery and emotIonal. Im about as emotional as one would get about a pimple on their ass. Which is aboit what you are.



>I love your line of "Do
>I need to Google". That's
>as good as " internet
>proof".

Again, Im not positive you understand my sarcasm. But its good to know that YOU remember when I showed you that "does" is a valid word for female deer in the plural Glad I could teach you something and give you a laugh at the same time.

Hows that legal stuff coming on B&C?

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
We have commercial salmon fishing and sport salmon fishing. The same for halibut, lobsters, crabs, clams, tuna, and many other species. They all co-exist. You need a commercial license and you can only sell to licensed buyers and they are on a strict quota. I never hear of any abuse although I'm sure it does happen, but not very much.

I suspect there isn't a whole lot of public land in New Jersey and that may be a limiting factor as to how many deer are taken by sportsmen.

I don't really care. They are whitetails so it's not like they are real deer:) J/K

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-14 AT 08:21PM (MST)[p]Tristate, you just demonstrated your lack of expertise on search warrants and prima facial evidence.

Those horns you talked about are prima facial evidence of a crime without a completed hunting tag attached to them. At that point the officer has reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed and the horns are in fact contraband and may be seized with or without a warrant if observed from a place the officer had a right to be.

On the other hand, package meat from a illegal kill can not be shown in good faith to be contraband if the suspect is in possession of a kill tag that showed he harvested a legal animal and can sell the meat on the market. All he has to do is state that the meat in the freezer is from the legal kill of a game animal and present his tag to the officer and the officer has lost the ability to show the meat is contraband or prima facial evidence and be able to seize it legally. A judge will not grant a search warrant to seize all meat if it appears to be a "fishing expedition" looking for fruits of the crime.

If seized at that point, the officer may find himself in violations of the suspects 4th. amendment right relating to unlawful search and seizure. Even if the officer is legally able to seize the meat and preform DNA tests on it and the DNA comes back to one animal only, how are you going to prove that was the animal taken legally or an animal taken by poaching for sale.

I am beginning to wonder if you are for the law because maybe you are in favor of more lenient laws allowing poaching of our game animals. You may think you know the law, but at best you are a arm chair quarterback that thinks you are smarter then the law. I lost count on how many guys I popped for thinking they were smarter then the law. Sooner or later we get them if we are diligent and persistent.

RELH
 
Now you are changing your hypothetical RELH. This ain't gonna work either because if you are seizing untagged antlers in most states you don't need a warrant for that anyway plus you can seize the meat T the same time. Plus in most states antlers no longer require the tag once at a final destination. Plus in several states tags have to stay.withmeat anyway. Please tell me you weren't a game warden. I can't believe an LEO defends hisposition because it makes his job too hard. Public sector I guess.
 
NVB do you actually believe B&C is a legal discussion?

I guess I could be like you and just say I meant to look silly whenever I say something stupid.

How many pics of me do you have now?
 
I am not familiar with game laws in "most states". I have to go by the laws that I familiar with in Ca. Bottom line your opinion that commercial selling of game meat will not increase poaching is plain simple B.S. on your part and prosecution will be tougher due to the change in the law allowing sales.

Here in CA. it is illegal to sell any part or organ of a game animal. we have poachers and even legally killed bears where the gall bladder is worth hundreds of dollars to the Asian market.

Because it is illegal to sell the gall bladder, the wardens are able to bring charges for illegal possession when they search Asian herb markets and find bear gall bladders and the owner can not produce evidence he was the one that harvested that animal with a tag. he gets arrested for illegal possession and a hefty fine to make him think twice about it net time.

If selling was legal, they would play hell trying to convict the Asian market owner because his excuse would be that Joe Crap the rag man sold it to him and then they have to find Joe Crap the rag man to prove otherwise.

Like I said, go talk to some game wardens in your state and ask them if they would like to see game meat being sold and if they feel it would increase poaching due to money now being involved. You might get a earful.

As for making the job harder, you know damn well what I meant was that it makes it harder to get a conviction on a professional poacher, or buyer of game meat that was taken illegally and deserves to be convicted and sent to jail or heavy fine to stop his criminal ways. Do you have a problem with that also. It does seem that you have too much compassion for the would be poacher then you do our game animals.

RELH
 
Alright. Sounds great. You want to believe your form of crazy works and I want to believe mine. I tell you what lets let New Jersey run the experiment. Let them do commercial meat hunting for a couple of years. What would you care? Really its a very small controlled situation where if the damage is bad we can actually reverse it with ease and quickly. So lets see it done there and watch and see the outcome. What would you be scared of. If it works there then lets expand. If it is a failure and poaching explodes then shut it off. Sounds like New Jersey is praying for some poaching anyway. Quit being chicken to run a small scale experiment.
 
NJ and their whitetail over population problem is nothing like the Western States and the Mule Deer!

Nothing! Some that were Educated in Whitetail Country have tried to implement Whitetail Management on our Western Muley herds. IMO, dismal failure at best and i have come to the conclusion that that's part of the reason that our herds are in the decline that they are in. More Doe hunts anyone?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Joey, that's right. Absolutely not Mule deer. I was only addressing NJ's situation and commenting on the OP's article.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
Sage I don't think anyone is saying it is the same. So why worry about if they want to try this. Let them do it and we can find out what kind of things can go wrong and what kind of things can be good. Why be scared of a tiny little experiment?
 
Tri, I'm not going to argue with you. I said my piece, if you can't understand it, so be it.

eel, Can you imagine something like that here? Ha Ha, there goes what we have left... :-(

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
" Why be scared of a tiny little experiment". Would that be on the scale of that tiny little experiment when they introduce wolves into Yellow Stone Park. That tiny little experiment greatly expanded out of the national park into other western states with disaster results. Give them a inch and they go for the mile.

RELH
 
relh

If you haven't noticed the wolf "experiment" worked perfectly.

Nonetheless comparing biological propagation to a business experiment is like comparing the ESA to a wall street firm.

The truth is you are afraid of the unknown.
 
The truth is you are so full of yourself that you can not see down the road as to what the real consequence will be on your little experiment. I bet you have not even checked with your state department of fish and game to see what the real experts have to say on the subject since you seem to think that you know it all.

RELH
 
>relh
>
>If you haven't noticed the wolf
>"experiment" worked perfectly.
>



We're all real glad u went into taxidermy!
 
Actually it's funny that you mention that. I had dinner last night with my cousin who is a biologist with the state here. He actually wasn't opposed to it. The only problem he had was the deer breeders are trying to cut TPWD out of their business completely and deal solely with USDA. So my state is probably much like every state. You will have some. For and some against and some may have agendas and some may be dumb steeple and some may be fanatics.

By the way the real experts are in New Jersey. Why don't you let them ruin their wildlife any way they want to.

Don't assume I am not tied in to the business of my state, after all my business depends on it. I think you are like most old men. That have done something one way all your life and it scares you that someday people might try something different.

All kinds of wildlife are handled commercialy in this nation what makes a deer so much different? I want you to answer this question.

I also want to know why other nations that allow sale of wild game meat why they keep having sport hunting and commercial hunting year after year after year? You should go see how many game wardens they have. They spend pennies on wildlife enforcement compared to us. You know why? The people whose money depend on the wildlife do a better job policing and managing it than a government employee can do.
 
If you had 400 pounds of meat in your freezer how would the warden prove you shot all that meat illegally when all ya have to say is I bought if from joe blow or an non-res who didn't think the meat would last through his trip home?
 
>Actually guys this is exceptionally easy
>to enforce if we adhere
>to the rules which I
>posted above. First there
>is a strict quota system.
> That means all deer.
> Both sport hunted and
>commercial. And second ALL
>deer must be checked.
>All deer in question can
>be quickly verified. Anyone
>with an unchecked deer is
>subject to prosecution.

Works wonders with guns. We all know how every criminal that uses a gun in a crime, is using a gun that is REGISTERED!! Nice job TRISTATE, I am sure the poachers will register the kills. Because as we all know thats what criminals do, the follow the law? So you were the lone vote for Wendy Davis huh?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>We have commercial salmon fishing and
>sport salmon fishing. The same
>for halibut, lobsters, crabs, clams,
>tuna, and many other species.
>They all co-exist. You need
>a commercial license and you
>can only sell to licensed
>buyers and they are on
>a strict quota. I never
>hear of any abuse although
>I'm sure it does happen,
>but not very much.
>
>I suspect there isn't a whole
>lot of public land in
>New Jersey and that may
>be a limiting factor as
>to how many deer are
>taken by sportsmen.
>
>I don't really care. They are
>whitetails so it's not like
>they are real deer:) J/K
>
>
>Eel
>
>It's written in the good Book
>that we'll never be asked
>to take more than we
>can. Sounds like a good
>plan, so bring it on!
>
>
>

Not a commercial fisherman, but aren't salmon numbers plumeting, the crab quotas sharply cut down, and most of the "commercial" fisheries in downward spirals? If I am wrong than ok, but once you set a market price, you create the market. I also would wonder about possible disease? We have issues from time to time with tainted meat, diseased animals, etc. in the domestic populations, how are they going to contain that with wildlife?

Lastly UNLIKE TRISTATE, I have never been to New Jersey. I can't figure out my own states deer issues, I will stay out of New Jerseys. As for Utah, I would hate to see it, I believe the commercialization of hunting is destroying it enough, and thats just the price for inches, I can't imagine what happens when the meat becomes marketable. TRISTATE, glad you fixed Utah so you can now move on to New Jersey, heres to hoping you troll the New Jersey sites now, Utah is fixed, you can move on!!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Gentlemen, what we are forgetting is that Tristate lives in Texas where 90% of the land is private land and hunting is controlled by the owner as to how much money and how many can trespass on the land.
He talks about other nations that allow the sale of game meat as a market commodity. In most of those countries only the very rich can afford to hunt. Tristate has a total different outlook on game animals due to his environment in Texas then we do where we have large amounts of public land without having to pay high trespass fees and trophy fees like they do in Texas. In Texas everything is for sale to the highest bidder, including game animals if Tristate gets his wish. No use to argue anymore, as we are at opposite ends of the pole.

RELH
 
>>We have commercial salmon fishing and
>>sport salmon fishing. The same
>>for halibut, lobsters, crabs, clams,
>>tuna, and many other species.
>>They all co-exist. You need
>>a commercial license and you
>>can only sell to licensed
>>buyers and they are on
>>a strict quota. I never
>>hear of any abuse although
>>I'm sure it does happen,
>>but not very much.
>>
>>I suspect there isn't a whole
>>lot of public land in
>>New Jersey and that may
>>be a limiting factor as
>>to how many deer are
>>taken by sportsmen.
>>
>>I don't really care. They are
>>whitetails so it's not like
>>they are real deer:) J/K
>>
>>
>>Eel
>>
>>It's written in the good Book
>>that we'll never be asked
>>to take more than we
>>can. Sounds like a good
>>plan, so bring it on!
>>
>>
>>
>
>Not a commercial fisherman, but aren't
>salmon numbers plumeting, the crab
>quotas sharply cut down, and
>most of the "commercial" fisheries
>in downward spirals? If
>I am wrong than ok,
>but once you set a
>market price, you create the
>market. I also would
>wonder about possible disease?
>We have issues from time
>to time with tainted meat,
>diseased animals, etc. in the
>domestic populations, how are they
>going to contain that with
>wildlife?
>
>Lastly UNLIKE TRISTATE, I have never
>been to New Jersey.
>I can't figure out my
>own states deer issues, I
>will stay out of New
>Jerseys. As for Utah,
>I would hate to see
>it, I believe the commercialization
>of hunting is destroying it
>enough, and thats just the
>price for inches, I can't
>imagine what happens when the
>meat becomes marketable. TRISTATE,
>glad you fixed Utah so
>you can now move on
>to New Jersey, heres to
>hoping you troll the New
>Jersey sites now, Utah is
>fixed, you can move on!!
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

hossblur, it's been many years since I was a commercial fisherman. I did it for a couple seasons. It is not without its issues for sure, especially in international waters as far as over harvest goes. They are slowly making progress especially on near shore species like salmon and rock fish, and sport fishing has a much bigger voice now than in the past. California just recently made a bunch of "marine reserves" (like refuges) where no fishing is allowed, commercial or sport to help and rebuild stocks.

Parts of Alaska are struggling with their King Salmon and they are making drastic cuts to all fishing. California's King Salmon are at historic highs right now. Very, very liberal sport fishing (in lots of areas, though it varies) but still very conservative on commercial fishing. Now we have this drought, so we are all worried about the future.

Crabs are highly regulated and they have natural high and low cycles, but nobody really understands why or how. They will have 3 or 4 years of abundance followed you 2 or 3 years of low numbers, and then it repeats itself. Commercial Dungeness crabbers are limited to male crabs only and must be of a certain size. This leaves all the females and most of the males to breed. Commercial Dungeness crabbers can never deplete the resource.

Except in extreme cases like in New Jersey, (or places like Texas where it's all private property) I'm sure commercial hunting of big game is not even on the radar. When you have a line a mile long of sportsmen waiting to pay hundreds of dollars to buy a tag and not enough tags to go around, it wouldn't make much economic sense. Not to mention it would start a civil war, and I would be the first to join.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
"Gentlemen, what we are forgetting is that Tristate lives in Texas where 90% of the land is private land and hunting is controlled by the owner as to how much money and how many can trespass on the land."

Actually its %95.

" He talks about other nations that allow the sale of game meat as a market commodity. In most of those countries only the very rich can afford to hunt."

Actually that is incorrect. Go to other nations and find out. Many other nations have highly restrictive gun laws which make hunting prohibitive. Some nations are actually not comprised of hunting type cultures. Some nations actually have very affordable hunting. Its time for you to get out and see the world and quit judging everything from your computer.

" Tristate has a total different outlook on game animals due to his environment in Texas then we do where we have large amounts of public land without having to pay high trespass fees and trophy fees like they do in Texas. In Texas everything is for sale to the highest bidder, including game animals if Tristate gets his wish. No use to argue anymore, as we are at opposite ends of the pole."

Actually I have a different point of view because I am educated in these fields and whether my kids get to eat or not is dependent on the wildlife industry.
 
>
>Actually that is incorrect. Go
>to other nations and find
>out. Many other nations
>have highly restrictive gun laws
>which make hunting prohibitive.

Then how can we compare ourselves to them? Unless that is what you want here.


>Some nations are actually not
>comprised of hunting type cultures.


Perhaps because of centuries of not being allowed to hunt the crowns game or because they are too busy starving to death to enjoy recreation.



> Some nations actually have
>very affordable hunting.

Give some specific examples of these nations that have sport hunting that is affordable to the common citizen of those countries please. And please make your examples relevant to the argument. And Canada does not count. And neither does what is affordable to Americans. Citizens of those countries.


>
>Actually I have a different point
>of view because I am
>educated in these fields and
>whether my kids get to
>eat or not is dependent
>on the wildlife industry.


There it is. That elitist Trollstate attitude that he is educated and you are not. He knows all.

Your kids being able to eat is dependent on sport hunters who have disposable income to spend on taxidermy. Please give data on the taxidermy industry in the countries I've asked for above. In other words common citizens with disposable income in places where those same citizens hunt for sport. Not just the wealthy elite.

Please enlighten us. This is not just me arguing with you. I really want to know.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
"Then how can we compare ourselves to them? Unless that is what you want here."

He made the comparison first to other countries not me. I was just clarifying for him. He used that argument.

"Perhaps because of centuries of not being allowed to hunt the crowns game or because they are too busy starving to death to enjoy recreation."

Or they are just different cultures with different economies.

"Give some specific examples of these nations that have sport hunting that is affordable to the common citizen of those countries please. And please make your examples relevant to the argument. And Canada does not count. And neither does what is affordable to Americans. Citizens of those countries."

"There it is. That elitist Trollstate attitude that he is educated and you are not. He knows all."

Go back and show me where I stated you are not educated. If your argument held any water you wouldn't have to resort to lying about what I say.

Scotland, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia, Peru, South Africa, Namibia, England. There's a couple. More than likely you could afford to go hunt any one of those nations.

I know taxidermists in several of these nations. I know of taxidermists in all of these nations except Scotland. Some of these businesses are enormous.

My income isn't just dependent on hunters disposable income. It is dependent on a industry that can repeat it year after year.
 
You said...

Scotland, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia, Peru, South Africa, Namibia, England. There's a couple. More than likely you could afford to go hunt any one of those nations


I specifically asked for countries where the common citizens of those countries can afford sport hunting. Is that true in Namibia and South Africa? And are the allowed to hunt in all those others?



[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
I think we should turn a pack loose in each Texas high fence operation to return things to a more natural state. Then we should put an east coast tree hugger in charge of determining when each wolf pop reached a stable enough level to support hunting. (Please note the sarcasm, but it ain't far from how it is in some parts of the west, and soon to b more parts of the west)
 
In every single one of those nations middle class citizens of those nations, just like you and me, are permitted to go hunt and do hunt.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

VideoCapture_20211113-093348.jpg
2BD8C3F6-1C0A-436E-A6E6-BCCE1DCD00AA.jpeg
7AC0B6E3-C769-4ED7-BB66-92479820E71E.png
Unique, Split-Beamed Archery Buck
adee 2021.jpg
8CCE68B3-FE47-4041-BC55-8D2AAD344F26.jpeg
037 copy copy.jpg
1000017700.jpg
NIFG9433.JPG
6195imgp2419.jpg
Chris 682.jpg
CE90F169-F796-4D15-9756-CEA26738B716.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom