commission discounts second tag prices

M

mickeymouseoutfitters

Active Member
Messages
348
Thought you guys would have this already posted. Do you think that they might sell more tags this year? I might take that whitetail hunt I've always wanted to go on. Especially since I didn't draw anything.
















________________________________________
I'm not one for telling my grandson how big of turd I had to pinch off from having to eat so much meat. I want to give him the trophies that hang from my wall and tell him the unforgettable experience that came with each and every one.
 
Its good and bad. They need the $$$$ so that is what mainly drove the change IMO. They should sell more tags, $199 for a second deer tag is reasonable.

Now the bad - there's a reason all those tag no longer sell out. Yes, part is the price, but the other is hunt quality. Many folks complain about 1) too many people or 2) lack of deer or lack of mature deer/bucks. This pertains mostly to mule deer and not the whitetail in the northern part. I dont see how selling more tags is going to help this situation.
 
>Its good and bad. They need
>the $$$$ so that is
>what mainly drove the change
>IMO. They should sell more
>tags, $199 for a second
>deer tag is reasonable.
>
>Now the bad - there's a
>reason all those tag no
>longer sell out. Yes, part
>is the price, but the
>other is hunt quality. Many
>folks complain about 1) too
>many people or 2) lack
>of deer or lack of
>mature deer/bucks. This pertains mostly
>to mule deer and not
>the whitetail in the northern
>part. I dont see how
>selling more tags is going
> to help this situation.
>

It's perceived quality. I can assure you, the quality is there in general units. And so are the numbers. People also think the wolves ate all the elk. That's simply not true either. Neither opinion is true, we still have lots of elk and are producing some great bucks.

I know in some areas things are have gone downhill, but many units are kicking ass. I will feel no qualms when/if I buy second tags this year.
 
>>Its good and bad. They need
>>the $$$$ so that is
>>what mainly drove the change
>>IMO. They should sell more
>>tags, $199 for a second
>>deer tag is reasonable.
>>
>>Now the bad - there's a
>>reason all those tag no
>>longer sell out. Yes, part
>>is the price, but the
>>other is hunt quality. Many
>>folks complain about 1) too
>>many people or 2) lack
>>of deer or lack of
>>mature deer/bucks. This pertains mostly
>>to mule deer and not
>>the whitetail in the northern
>>part. I dont see how
>>selling more tags is going
>> to help this situation.
>>
>
>It's perceived quality. I can assure
>you, the quality is there
>in general units. And so
>are the numbers. People also
>think the wolves ate all
>the elk. That's simply not
>true either. Neither opinion is
>true, we still have lots
>of elk and are producing
>some great bucks.
>
>I know in some areas things
>are have gone downhill, but
>many units are kicking ass.
>I will feel no qualms
>when/if I buy second tags
>this year.

What are you talking about wolves have definitely eaten all the game in Idaho. Everybody should just stay home. Don't even bother buying a tag.

But on a more serious note if you are worried about the mule deer population not being able to handle the extra tags then the solution is simple buy a second whitetail only tag and kill a whitetail it will help the mule deer because they compete for space in most areas.

As a matter of fact I think the one thing they should change is the ability to take 2 mule deer bucks should go away. One of your tags should have to be whitetail only. I think we can all agree that mule deer populations are on a slight decline and I for one would like to see that trend reversed
 
I'm sure there are a few select areas the mule deer are doing well, but I got to agree with Andrew above. Overall the mule deer are on a decline, and have been for some time. Let me ask you, is the overall hunting for mule deer in the state of ID today as good as it was 10 years ago? 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Especially the general units? With the current state of management does anyone really see this trend reversing? Unfortunately I dont.

And its not just the quality of the deer, in terms of numbers and age class. The problem is with more tags the number of people you encounter try to hunt. Its frustrating to go into an area for opening day, or opening week, or on any weekends, and every drainage and ridge has multiple people, which many times leads to poor hunt quality because the deer get spooked.

I know there is no easy answer. The F&G need the revenue from the tags. Plus you cant please everyone - everyone has different goals - some want trophy quality, some want opportunity, some want high numbers of animals. But at this time I think they are doing a disservice to the mule deer herd to allow folks to harvest two bucks each year. The general units cant handle that pressure. If folks want to shoot one mule deer, then only use the second tag for a whitetail which are doing better, then thats fine with me.
 
Like a jewelry store... Way overprice something and mark it down to sell more... Why not start with a more reasonable price to begin with? No wonder they have trouble selling them. Duh.
 
>And its not just the quality
>of the deer, in terms
>of numbers and age class.
>The problem is with more
>tags the number of people
>you encounter try to hunt.
>Its frustrating to go into
>an area for opening day,
>or opening week, or on
>any weekends, and every drainage
>and ridge has multiple people,
>which many times leads to
>poor hunt quality because the
>deer get spooked.

Posts like these make me think that people are either so incompetent as hunters that they don't know how to spot deer or that they are lazy and don't hike more than 50 yards from their truck. Probably both.

This will be my 5th year hunting this state, and I have nothing but good things to say. I'm not sure where you hunt, but it's definitely not in one of the 3 main areas that we hunt. Because my report couldn't be more opposite.

I'm not tooting my own horn at my hunting skill, because I'm young and have a lot to learn. I'm more so ripping the naysayers, because you guys can't be pleased and I think it's because you guys are incompetent, blind or both.

Last year I would estimate that I saw 300 deer total during the general rifle season in 5 days of hunting and 2 days of scouting in the summer. I saw about 15-20 bucks. 6 or 7 of those were 4 points, 2 of those were 160's bucks, and 2 were in the 170's. We killed 2 of the better bucks and passed on lots of young bucks.

We hunt units 39, 35, 34, 48, 33, 32 and elk hunted a bit in 32A. I see much lower deer densities in the Sawtooths, but with that being said, every other deer that we see up there is a decent 4 point. We also rarely even see a boot track, much less another hunter. So I don't know where you guys are looking, I honestly don't. Personally, we try to stay away from any trails whatsoever. No motorcycle trails, no pack trails, no hiking trails and certainly no ATV trails. It's 3700 feet of elevation gain to the top. Again, I'm not trying to go Cameron Hanes on your asses, but I'm just saying that you guys are lazy.

I won't disagree with deer numbers historically statewide, as I can't comment on how the herds were 10 and 20 years ago. And I'm not saying we shouldn't always be striving to better the herd. But for this being an opportunity state, we sure see few hunters when we hike hard. We also see PLENTY of deer and lots of decent bucks that people shoot in other states on tags that take 2-4 points to draw.
 
twsnow18 It is not that there are no bucks to harvest it is that when on a decline should F&G allow the guys that gets it done to harvest two. I'm glad to see you get to the top of the mountain. I have had a single hour that I sat in one place and looked over 40 4 point bucks. This is what 1983 had for Idaho. I watched over a thousand deer migrating out of the Boise river in a single day. The season started October 5th and went through November. Things have changed a lot and may never go back to those kind of days. But giving two buck tags to the 100% success guy is not going to help. And by the way I was always on top when it got light. :)

DZ
 
20% of the hunters kill 80% of the deer!!

Those are made up numbers!! But seems like guys that hunt hard always kill deer.. Then there are the lazy ones that luck into a deer every few years! So those guys that hunt hard are no going to kill 2 nice deer ..
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-14 AT 03:26PM (MST)[p]>>And its not just the quality
>>of the deer, in terms
>>of numbers and age class.
>>The problem is with more
>>tags the number of people
>>you encounter try to hunt.
>>Its frustrating to go into
>>an area for opening day,
>>or opening week, or on
>>any weekends, and every drainage
>>and ridge has multiple people,
>>which many times leads to
>>poor hunt quality because the
>>deer get spooked.
>
>Posts like these make me think
>that people are either so
>incompetent as hunters that they
>don't know how to spot
>deer or that they are
>lazy and don't hike more
>than 50 yards from their
>truck. Probably both.
>
>This will be my 5th year
>hunting this state, and I
>have nothing but good things
>to say. I'm not sure
>where you hunt, but it's
>definitely not in one of
>the 3 main areas that
>we hunt. Because my report
>couldn't be more opposite.
>
>I'm not tooting my own horn
>at my hunting skill, because
>I'm young and have a
>lot to learn. I'm more
>so ripping the naysayers, because
>you guys can't be pleased
>and I think it's because
>you guys are incompetent, blind
>or both.
>
>Last year I would estimate that
>I saw 300 deer total
>during the general rifle season
>in 5 days of hunting
>and 2 days of scouting
>in the summer. I saw
>about 15-20 bucks. 6 or
>7 of those were 4
>points, 2 of those were
>160's bucks, and 2 were
>in the 170's. We killed
>2 of the better bucks
>and passed on lots of
>young bucks.
>
>We hunt units 39, 35, 34,
>48, 33, 32 and elk
>hunted a bit in 32A.
>I see much lower deer
>densities in the Sawtooths, but
>with that being said, every
>other deer that we see
>up there is a decent
>4 point. We also rarely
>even see a boot track,
>much less another hunter. So
>I don't know where you
>guys are looking, I honestly
>don't. Personally, we try to
>stay away from any trails
>whatsoever. No motorcycle trails, no
>pack trails, no hiking trails
>and certainly no ATV trails.
>It's 3700 feet of elevation
>gain to the top. Again,
>I'm not trying to go
>Cameron Hanes on your asses,
>but I'm just saying that
>you guys are lazy.
>
>I won't disagree with deer numbers
>historically statewide, as I can't
>comment on how the herds
>were 10 and 20 years
>ago. And I'm not saying
>we shouldn't always be striving
>to better the herd. But
>for this being an opportunity
>state, we sure see few
>hunters when we hike hard.
>We also see PLENTY of
>deer and lots of decent
>bucks that people shoot in
>other states on tags that
>take 2-4 points to draw.
>


I try not to ever get in on these talks to much but your comments are insulting to many and one of the reasons this state's hunting is declining very rapidly!!!! You have only hunted in Idaho 5 YEARS??? as you mentioned you don't know what it was like any longer than 5 years ago. The last time I took a week off to hunt deer was 7 years ago in one of the units you have listed that you have hunted. Number of hunters in seen in that week, 5,deer 400+ bucks bigger than two points or tiny three points 40, trophy bucks..180+ 6-7. Last year same spot cow hunting prior to deer season and buck hunting?.hunters in "two days" guys on tav's and or on the mountain on foot?.73. Deer total 32... 2 bucks the last two days of season. Now many factors come into the decline, deer massacre in 1988,weather,ATV's and four wheel drives,hunter numbers,doe hunts,predators. Other than a horrific call by F&G on the depredation hunt of 88 these other things can't be controlled by F&G but they are the managers of the herds just like any business many things come into play and you have to be able to adjust to be successful. You have to be able to make adjustments during the game to win and be a winner! Our F&G want to manage one way and only one, practice for this defense and if the play another defense, "oh well we tried." You talk to a young officer in the field and he tells you he has been out of college 3 years and worked in Idaho for 3 years and "Deer numbers are at an all time high in the unit and there hasn't been more big bucks here!" Yes I was told this two years ago in unit 32 and yes I was one mad SOB. Well unit 32 is on the opposite end of that statement and anyone who has lived here and spent any amount of time up there will tell you that. I grew up in this unit and it's flipping disgusting the herd condition is in. All doe hunts need to be closed 100% not for kids ?ALL. All roads ad tav trails closed 100% the main roads should be the only thing open you have to park at the bottom! Yes your right a lot of hunters are lazy and this unit is a major display of it!! Yep a lot of people wouldn't be able to hunt in there but thats tough I guess. 32A and 39 have declined so much as well. So if you think hunting is good now you would have been giddy back in the day!! Literally every day we went to the mountain we knew we would see good bucks and one or two toads unreal was what it was!!!!! I'm sorry you didn't get to see it,I have a 15 year old daughter who will never see what it was,even seven years ago! I don't see any confidence it is going to improve 1% it's been in the decline and will stay with our F&G! I too was always on top of the mountain at light, and still am at times it's just not the same. One reason units like 32,32A,22,39,40,42 and on and on had so many quality deer was the access to the mountain and the deer numbers,people didn't have to climb to the top to harvest their deer they found plenty from the bottom to the top, those days are gone never to return!!!!! Thats why IDAHO was one of the premiere states to hunt 10,20,30 years ago?now where does it sit at? The bottom of western states.
 
I guess I am more of a glass half full type of guy. Unfortunately, it's never going to be like it was in the 80's.

ATV's are here to stay. They aren't going anywhere. F&G doesn't have the money to police them properly. Bi***ing about them isn't going to do anything.

Roads are here to stay, they aren't going anywhere. Bi***ing about them isn't going to do anything.

Hunter numbers are always going to be increasing, as the sport grows. It's much harder to control the supply than it is the demand, being an opportunity state. Bi***ing about it isn't going to do anything.

Long range rifles and rangefinders probably aren't going anywhere...

I have only been to one F&G comment meeting, I should do better. But I, as a hunter there, was so outnumbered that I was afraid to comment as I would have been ripped to shreds. There is just too much bi***ing on these forums from people that do nothing more than that. They don't show up at the meetings, we should all do better. We all need to donate more and show up in force more often.

The attitude from hunters that F&G is out to get us and take away hunting is just absurd. When people make comments like that, they come off as stupid as it gets. You guys do realize that they would be out of a job if hunting went away, correct? No one seems to understand that they don't make ##### for money. They have groups coming at them from all directions. Politicians, citizens, hunters, ranchers and anti hunters. Thier job is much tougher than yours, as an arm chair biologist. We are our own worst enemy in my opinion. We all need to donate more money/time and show up to these meetings to actually make a difference. Rather than waste our time trying to convince ourselves that the fish cops are trying to destroy our deer herds.
 
>
>
>Posts like these make me think
>that people are either so
>incompetent as hunters that they
>don't know how to spot
>deer or that they are
>lazy and don't hike more
>than 50 yards from their
>truck. Probably both.
>
>This will be my 5th year
>hunting this state, and I
>have nothing but good things
>to say. I'm not sure
>where you hunt, but it's
>definitely not in one of
>the 3 main areas that
>we hunt. Because my report
>couldn't be more opposite.
>
>I'm not tooting my own horn
>at my hunting skill, because
>I'm young and have a
>lot to learn. I'm more
>so ripping the naysayers, because
>you guys can't be pleased
>and I think it's because
>you guys are incompetent, blind
>or both.
>
>Last year I would estimate that
>I saw 300 deer total
>during the general rifle season
>in 5 days of hunting
>and 2 days of scouting
>in the summer. I saw
>about 15-20 bucks. 6 or
>7 of those were 4
>points, 2 of those were
>160's bucks, and 2 were
>in the 170's. We killed
>2 of the better bucks
>and passed on lots of
>young bucks.
>
>We hunt units 39, 35, 34,
>48, 33, 32 and elk
>hunted a bit in 32A.
>I see much lower deer
>densities in the Sawtooths, but
>with that being said, every
>other deer that we see
>up there is a decent
>4 point. We also rarely
>even see a boot track,
>much less another hunter. So
>I don't know where you
>guys are looking, I honestly
>don't. Personally, we try to
>stay away from any trails
>whatsoever. No motorcycle trails, no
>pack trails, no hiking trails
>and certainly no ATV trails.
>It's 3700 feet of elevation
>gain to the top. Again,
>I'm not trying to go
>Cameron Hanes on your asses,
>but I'm just saying that
>you guys are lazy.
>
>I won't disagree with deer numbers
>historically statewide, as I can't
>comment on how the herds
>were 10 and 20 years
>ago. And I'm not saying
>we shouldn't always be striving
>to better the herd. But
>for this being an opportunity
>state, we sure see few
>hunters when we hike hard.
>We also see PLENTY of
>deer and lots of decent
>bucks that people shoot in
>other states on tags that
>take 2-4 points to draw.
>

This typed by a feller that has not the slightest idea of what decent deer hunting is like, some good sh!t right there. Thanks for the laugh!
I'll not ever have to read one of his comments again!!lmao

Give me your address and I'll send you some pom poms and a short skirt!!!
 
So you think seeing two 160 class and 2 170 bucks during 7 days of hunting/scouting in those areas, hunting hard, hunting deep, hardcore, is "good hunting" and the mule deer herd is doing so great that you can blast two bucks each year??? WOW. JUST WOW. You have no clue what those areas are capable of.

As others have said you used to see those types and numbers of bucks EVERY day while hunting years ago in those same areas before the decline in the herd. Probably didnt even need to climb 3700 feet in elevation to see them. Thats how much it has changed.

So do you think that if everyone starts shooting 2 mature bucks each year the herd will improve, or maybe get better? Doubtful. It's only going to get worse with more tags issued. I hate to see what it will be like in 10, 20 , 30 more years. Look at most of the other western states, very few offer general/OTC tags anymore, and seasons are short. We dont want that to happen in Idaho, otherwisw we will be telling our kids and grandkids stories of "how good the hunting used to be".

>>And its not just the quality
>>of the deer, in terms
>>of numbers and age class.
>>The problem is with more
>>tags the number of people
>>you encounter try to hunt.
>>Its frustrating to go into
>>an area for opening day,
>>or opening week, or on
>>any weekends, and every drainage
>>and ridge has multiple people,
>>which many times leads to
>>poor hunt quality because the
>>deer get spooked.
>
>Posts like these make me think
>that people are either so
>incompetent as hunters that they
>don't know how to spot
>deer or that they are
>lazy and don't hike more
>than 50 yards from their
>truck. Probably both.
>
>This will be my 5th year
>hunting this state, and I
>have nothing but good things
>to say. I'm not sure
>where you hunt, but it's
>definitely not in one of
>the 3 main areas that
>we hunt. Because my report
>couldn't be more opposite.
>
>I'm not tooting my own horn
>at my hunting skill, because
>I'm young and have a
>lot to learn. I'm more
>so ripping the naysayers, because
>you guys can't be pleased
>and I think it's because
>you guys are incompetent, blind
>or both.
>
>Last year I would estimate that
>I saw 300 deer total
>during the general rifle season
>in 5 days of hunting
>and 2 days of scouting
>in the summer. I saw
>about 15-20 bucks. 6 or
>7 of those were 4
>points, 2 of those were
>160's bucks, and 2 were
>in the 170's. We killed
>2 of the better bucks
>and passed on lots of
>young bucks.
>
>We hunt units 39, 35, 34,
>48, 33, 32 and elk
>hunted a bit in 32A.
>I see much lower deer
>densities in the Sawtooths, but
>with that being said, every
>other deer that we see
>up there is a decent
>4 point. We also rarely
>even see a boot track,
>much less another hunter. So
>I don't know where you
>guys are looking, I honestly
>don't. Personally, we try to
>stay away from any trails
>whatsoever. No motorcycle trails, no
>pack trails, no hiking trails
>and certainly no ATV trails.
>It's 3700 feet of elevation
>gain to the top. Again,
>I'm not trying to go
>Cameron Hanes on your asses,
>but I'm just saying that
>you guys are lazy.
>
>I won't disagree with deer numbers
>historically statewide, as I can't
>comment on how the herds
>were 10 and 20 years
>ago. And I'm not saying
>we shouldn't always be striving
>to better the herd. But
>for this being an opportunity
>state, we sure see few
>hunters when we hike hard.
>We also see PLENTY of
>deer and lots of decent
>bucks that people shoot in
>other states on tags that
>take 2-4 points to draw.
>
 
>Thought you guys would have this
>already posted. Do you think
>that they might sell more
>tags this year? I might
>take that whitetail hunt I've
>always wanted to go on.
>Especially since I didn't draw
>anything.
>
>
>Yes four wheelers are here to stay and the long range rifles. Personally if you shoot a long range gun in my opinion you don't think you have the ability to stalk an animal and get close, so to me thats not hunting and takes away most of the experience of hunting. Since I brought up unit 32,and 32A even 31 F&G can go in with BLM and Forest Service and close all these atv/utv made roads down 100%. Yes this will keep some elderly and disabled from getting up the mountain, but when you look back 5,10,15,20 years in unit 32 you had the main forest service roads and county roads there wasn't anything else. There wasn't a road on every ridge zip zero nodda!!!! The deer in this unit can't get away from hunters plain and simple. If people had to get out and walk in this unit and doe hunts were closed you would see some of the great hunting come back to what it was. It goes for all the units! In the 70's,80's few people had four wheel drives that has grown but if they had to park it at the bottom it would be nothing but a positive for the herd. As far as bitching well yep tired of people who have just moved here or are young and dumb tell us sh-- when you don't really know ,you haven't gone to F&G meetings,you haven't been out planting bitter brush after fires,been involved in literally anything?.get involved and do a little homework on what was,why it isn't, and push F&G to make it better. To say F&G don't want to lose their jobs etc. then they need to do their damn job be proactive, fix the problems, not go thru the motions and get a check. I want the hunting to be if nothing more at least a shadow of what it was for my kids,grand kids and you and you families and it really wouldn't take a whole lot just two things would greatly improve thing's but they would catch a lot of crap because we are all lazy sitting on our atv's going up the hill!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________
>I'm not one for telling my
>grandson how big of turd
>I had to pinch off
>from having to eat so
>much meat. I want to
>give him the trophies that
>hang from my wall and
>tell him the unforgettable experience
>that came with each and
>every one.
 
It's only going
>to get worse with more
>tags issued.

The same amount of tags are being issues. The price has been discounted, nothing else changed.
 
>So you think seeing two 160
>class and 2 170 bucks
>during 7 days of hunting/scouting
>in those areas, hunting hard,
>hunting deep, hardcore, is "good
>hunting" and the mule deer
>herd is doing so great
>that you can blast two
>bucks each year???

Never said I was an expert, in fact, I clearly stated the opposite if you go back and read my OP.

But yes, I would consider that good hunting. Post up your OTC 170 bucks since they were soooo easy to kill in the 80's!! I haven't killed one, but I've seen a couple and I think it's pretty cool when I do get to see bucks like that.

Maybe that's the issue, you guys shot all the good bucks from your truck back in the 80's! So they learned to move up the hill a bit to outsmart the lazy, it obviously worked since you ladies think mule deer are extinct...
 
>It's only going
>>to get worse with more
>>tags issued.
>
>The same amount of tags are
>being issues. The price
>has been discounted, nothing else
>changed.

That's the way I see it also. ID puts a cap on otc nonresident tags. Before ID raised there tag prices around 2008 almost all of these tags sold. I think they would have been better off dropping the price of the first tag and then there wouldn't be any secound tags to buy.




"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
>>So you think seeing two 160
>>class and 2 170 bucks
>>during 7 days of hunting/scouting
>>in those areas, hunting hard,
>>hunting deep, hardcore, is "good
>>hunting" and the mule deer
>>herd is doing so great
>>that you can blast two
>>bucks each year???
>
>Never said I was an expert,
>in fact, I clearly stated
>the opposite if you go
>back and read my OP.
>
>
>But yes, I would consider that
>good hunting. Post up your
>OTC 170 bucks since they
>were soooo easy to kill
>in the 80's!! I haven't
>killed one, but I've seen
>a couple and I think
>it's pretty cool when I
>do get to see bucks
>like that.
>
>Maybe that's the issue, you guys
>shot all the good bucks
>from your truck back in
>the 80's! So they learned
>to move up the hill
>a bit to outsmart the
>lazy, it obviously worked since
>you ladies think mule deer
>are extinct...

Well for someone who hasn't shot a 170 buck yet you sure know a lot. Maybe you should stop insulting people who have lived here all their lives and have put some blood and sweat into the game herds. See we didn't hunt out the back of the pickup or on atv's or rode motorcycles up the trails we WALKED. You should be killing all your 170 bucks you see ,it's much easier stalking in on bucks because there ISN'T a quarter of the deer there used to be and you have long range rifles and rangefinders. Go buy the book Idaho's greatest mule deer???. see what Idaho was.
 
Brymoor and Tagsoup -

I agree with you to a point. Yes, you are correct, there is a cap on NR tags.

But with the decline in the herd I think its good they havent been able to sells all the tags in recent years (NOT good for their budget though). How many were left last year, about 5000 or so? That is almost half of the entire allotment. I think that potentially saves a few bucks each year. And here is my reasoning why - with the ability to buy two tags, especially one being discounted to $199, some hunters (residents and NRs) may decide to harvest the first legal buck they see, then go to the store and buy the second tag and go back out to try and get a second buck. The cheeper the tag gets the more likely I think people will do this (for example what if the price was set to the normal resident price of $19.75). So more bucks are harvested in a herd that is already suffering.

So I got a question - say this year they sell an extra 1500 tags because the reduced price for the leftovers. Would you support them lowering the price next year to sell even more, say to $99 a tag, then lower until they sell each and every tag? Maybe just $19.75 for anyone (residents and NRs). I'm just not in favor of this approach. If the herd was doing well it would be a different story.
 
Thanks for the laugh! Well we tried to inform you of what "good hunting" is and what Idaho is capable of producing.

And nope I'm not lazy. This is monstermuley.com. Most of the folks that post here are hardcore hunters. No need to call us "ladies".
 
>Brymoor and Tagsoup -
>
>I agree with you to a
>point. Yes, you are correct,
>there is a cap on
>NR tags.
>
>But with the decline in the
>herd I think its good
>they havent been able to
>sells all the tags in
>recent years (NOT good for
>their budget though). How many
>were left last year, about
>5000 or so? That is
>almost half of the entire
>allotment. I think that potentially
>saves a few bucks each
>year. And here is my
>reasoning why - with the
>ability to buy two tags,
>especially one being discounted to
>$199, some hunters (residents and
>NRs) may decide to harvest
>the first legal buck they
>see, then go to the
>store and buy the second
>tag and go back out
>to try and get a
>second buck. The cheeper the
>tag gets the more likely
>I think people will do
>this (for example what if
>the price was set to
>the normal resident price of
>$19.75). So more bucks are
>harvested in a herd that
>is already suffering.
>
>So I got a question -
>say this year they sell
>an extra 1500 tags because
>the reduced price for the
>leftovers. Would you support them
>lowering the price next year
>to sell even more, say
>to $99 a tag, then
>lower until they sell each
>and every tag? Maybe just
>$19.75 for anyone (residents and
>NRs). I'm just not in
>favor of this approach. If
>the herd was doing well
>it would be a different
>story.


You have two different issues you're talking about. 1) What is the best price to sell NR tags to optimize revenue and 2) How many tags should be issued for herd health.

The change by IDF&G only responds to issue number 1. They believe that reducing the price will sell the leftover tags.

Your issue number 2 (number of tags) is not addressed by this change. If you want to complain about the number of tags issued (potentially legitimate concern), start another thread.
 
Well, apologies to the original topic starter! I guess we (probably I) deviated from his question. Although the 2 issues I discussed in my post you quoted are different, they ARE interconnected and both important. I guess no threads on monstermuleys are allowed to deviate from the exact topic starter anymore! Jesus frickin priest! Bring out the moderators! Get back to main topic!

>>Brymoor and Tagsoup -
>>
>>I agree with you to a
>>point. Yes, you are correct,
>>there is a cap on
>>NR tags.
>>
>>But with the decline in the
>>herd I think its good
>>they havent been able to
>>sells all the tags in
>>recent years (NOT good for
>>their budget though). How many
>>were left last year, about
>>5000 or so? That is
>>almost half of the entire
>>allotment. I think that potentially
>>saves a few bucks each
>>year. And here is my
>>reasoning why - with the
>>ability to buy two tags,
>>especially one being discounted to
>>$199, some hunters (residents and
>>NRs) may decide to harvest
>>the first legal buck they
>>see, then go to the
>>store and buy the second
>>tag and go back out
>>to try and get a
>>second buck. The cheeper the
>>tag gets the more likely
>>I think people will do
>>this (for example what if
>>the price was set to
>>the normal resident price of
>>$19.75). So more bucks are
>>harvested in a herd that
>>is already suffering.
>>
>>So I got a question -
>>say this year they sell
>>an extra 1500 tags because
>>the reduced price for the
>>leftovers. Would you support them
>>lowering the price next year
>>to sell even more, say
>>to $99 a tag, then
>>lower until they sell each
>>and every tag? Maybe just
>>$19.75 for anyone (residents and
>>NRs). I'm just not in
>>favor of this approach. If
>>the herd was doing well
>>it would be a different
>>story.
>
>
>You have two different issues you're
>talking about. 1) What
>is the best price to
>sell NR tags to optimize
>revenue and 2) How many
>tags should be issued for
>herd health.
>
>The change by IDF&G only responds
>to issue number 1.
>They believe that reducing the
>price will sell the leftover
>tags.
>
>Your issue number 2 (number of
>tags) is not addressed by
>this change. If you
>want to complain about the
>number of tags issued (potentially
>legitimate concern), start another thread.
>
 
I have heard that F&G is asking the legislature for a 20% increase for resident license and tags. How many people are willing to start paying more for F&G to keep operating without cutting things from the budget? I would be willing to pay 50% more if it would help restore our big game herds. If we all pony up more we wouldn't have to sell more non-res. tags. Would you guys pay more?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-14 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]>I have heard that F&G is
>asking the legislature for a
>20% increase for resident license
>and tags. How many people
>are willing to start paying
>more for F&G to keep
>operating without cutting things from
>the budget? I would be
>willing to pay 50% more
>if it would help restore
>our big game herds. If
>we all pony up more
>we wouldn't have to sell
>more non-res. tags. Would you
>guys pay more?


Absolutely! And I would be willing to give up 2 or 3 years and/or picking which animal I would hunt. But problem is that survey that they had a few years back, they said the majority wanted to hunt every year and they didn't care about the quality of the animals. Until they get over that, I'm sure nothing will change.






________________________________________
I'm not one for telling my grandson how big of turd I had to pinch off from having to eat so much meat. I want to give him the trophies that hang from my wall and tell him the unforgettable experience that came with each and every one.
 
To many fellers in this state that are happy seeing a couple of dinks a year and pounding their chest on what great hunters they are. If they want to raise the cost, f&g need to start producing a better quality product and quit using excuses. Winters use to be far tougher and longer and there is far less livestock on public ground than there was thirty yrs ago, so whats wrong, these are the 2 biggest whining points I read on here and hear from the city dwellers. I agree with Mick nothing will change, to hard and to many whiners.
 
Let me throw a different spin on this

We can all agree that the department is starved for revenue and in theory more money should result in better management which down the road will be better for the herd numbers right

So it sounds as if most reasonable residents are willing to kick down a few more dollars every year.

Would you be willing to give up a few guaranteed controlled hunt tags to non residents?

My suggestion is to let the non residents have their bonus/preference points give then 10% of the tags remember they can get up to that now. The non resident applications and license purchase will at least double if not triple annually. Now that's revenue
 
Biggest contributing factors to mule deer decline in Idaho in my opinion are wolves, whitetails, elk and wildfires or lack there of. Wolves effect mule deer populations in obvious ways as they are apex predators that can kill at will. Whitetails and elk have grown overall in population and whitetails have continued to expand their range which takes up habitat that could be inhabited by mule deer. The problem with wildfires is we have the environmentalist, green peace whackos who think that a wildfire completely destroys a forest forever so for too long now we have put out every wildfire ASAP, this has lead to old forests that lack the nutritious plants to feed all of our game animals, it has also caused fires to grow out of control and burn too hot which does have a negative effect on the regrowth of the forests. The last 2 factors combined probably have more to do with the decline than wolves ever could. With the poor nutritional value of our forests and wild lands and whitetails and elk both being the more aggressive species than the mule deer they have pushed mule deer to the breaking point. As far as human hunters most mule deer country in this state is such big, steep country that while there will always be some willing to go to whatever lengths are necessary to find good hunting, others will always simply drive around, never get more than 1/2 mile from their truck or 4 wheeler and simply won't have much effect on mule deer populations no matter how many tags they have.

All that being said I think that we need to petition the idfg to only allow the use of 1 tag on mule deer, thus potentially alleviating some of the competition from whitetails. Nobody should be shooting 2 mule deer bucks in the state of Idaho in one season. As far as trophy quality the big bucks are still out there, it seems more big bucks are being taken each year here recently.

Nitis I agree completely with your suggestion as far as non residents having a guaranteed quota on controlled hunts with a bonus point system for non res only.

MMO I've said it before I'll say it again if you want to trade your ability to hunt every year for "quality" go ahead and move to Utah. After all they have 200" bucks behind every tree and sagebrush. Nobody ever complains about the quality of deer hunting in Utah wink wink.

Anyway those are my thoughts on what plagues our mule deer and game populations in general. It may never again be what it was but we have to make do with what we have while trying to improve it. As far as I'm concerned though as long as we can at least stabilize deer and elk populations at current levels given current trends that would be a big win. Once that happens we can focus on how to grow the populations
 
Nicely said, andrew12guage. I completely agree that whities and habitat are the biggest factors impeding this state's mule deer.

One question I have: how does more money = more deer? More enforcement? Habitat improvement? IDFG has never been big on feeding programs. I suppose they could do more habitat projects with more revenue, but I see winter development and the USFS fire policy as the real culprits regarding deer habitat. The fires are here now that the forests are so unhealthy. In a decade, the huge burns of recent years will be as productive as ever. But all those new deer need a place to winter, and I don't see IDFG being able to do much about sagebrush fires or winter range development.

Whitetals we can do something about. I think we should all be calling for more liberal seasons and increased tags for those brush rats. I've sent comments in to that effect for some time now.
 
>I have heard that F&G is
>asking the legislature for a
>20% increase for resident license
>and tags. How many people
>are willing to start paying
>more for F&G to keep
>operating without cutting things from
>the budget? I would be
>willing to pay 50% more
>if it would help restore
>our big game herds. If
>we all pony up more
>we wouldn't have to sell
>more non-res. tags. Would you
>guys pay more?

+1

I'd pay $30, $40, or even $50 for my deer tag. Realistically I think most of us would pay whatever they are charging, although some would have a fit.
 
>Well for someone who hasn't shot
>a 170 buck yet
>you sure know a lot.
>Maybe you should stop insulting
>people who have lived here
>all their lives and have
>put some blood and sweat
>into the game herds. See
>we didn't hunt out the
>back of the pickup or
>on atv's or rode motorcycles
>up the trails we WALKED.
>You should be killing all
>your 170 bucks you see
>,it's much easier stalking in
>on bucks because there ISN'T
>a quarter of the deer
>there used to be and
>you have long range rifles
>and rangefinders. Go buy
>the book Idaho's greatest mule
>deer???. see what Idaho was.

Come on man! Post up your OTC 170 bucks!! You ought to have gobs of them on your wall from the 80's. Damn, it was probably so good back then that you pros weren't shooting anything smaller than 180's on general tags!

Draw tags don't count in this conversation.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-14 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]I'll agree I'm somewhat pessimistic, but I'd happily pay more for a tag and lic if I thought it would go toward improved management and better herd numbers over all, I like seeing deer, whitetail or mulies doesn't matter, don't have to shoot one at all. But in my pessimistic state of mind all a raise in fees would do is pay for a few raises and buy some more new vehicles.

Pay scale is pretty much set to become a blowologist coming out of school, kind of like teaching, quit whining and do your job.
 
>Nicely said, andrew12guage. I completely agree
>that whities and habitat are
>the biggest factors impeding this
>state's mule deer.
>
>One question I have: how does
>more money = more deer?
>More enforcement? Habitat improvement? IDFG
>has never been big on
>feeding programs. I suppose they
>could do more habitat projects
>with more revenue, but I
>see winter development and the
>USFS fire policy as the
>real culprits regarding deer habitat.
>The fires are here now
>that the forests are so
>unhealthy. In a decade, the
>huge burns of recent years
>will be as productive as
>ever. But all those new
>deer need a place to
>winter, and I don't see
>IDFG being able to do
>much about sagebrush fires or
>winter range development.
>
>Whitetals we can do something about.
>I think we should all
>be calling for more liberal
>seasons and increased tags for
>those brush rats. I've sent
>comments in to that effect
>for some time now.


In theory more money should equate to more resources for the department to work with be it more biologists to study or more feed in the winter or predator management.

But this is a government agency so for every $100 more they get they may use $1
 
I agree with nitis with the more non-res tags. BUT my twist on it would be this: With two draws, first the resident draw at the resident price. Then have the non-res draw at the non-res price, but the residents that didn't draw in the first draw can put in for the second draw at the non-resident price. And set the tag numbers equal(50/50), or something like that.

andrew12gauge, no way in he!! will I ever move to Utah. Not for the hunting, but because NONE of my vehicles would be able to be licensed and because they won't get the HE!! out of the left lane. There must be a law that they only can make so many lane changes in their lifetime. And/or they drive side by side.
I just want to try to keep Idaho from making the same mistakes that Utah has and still is. Utah still has some really liberal hunting seasons, just so everyone can hunt every year. That is ok if the population can sustain every year, but not ok if it cannot. The IDFG justifies hunting by the buck to doe ratio. You cannot determine the population by that.
I don't care that much about 200" bucks(even though I want one), I care more about 200 bucks(Total population).
I hope you don't have to bring up me moving again, but if you have to defend your right to harvest every year when the population clearly cannot sutain it, then I don't mind.






Is this a better signature for me?
________________________________________
If you tell me that you hunt for meat, then you had better tell me how good road kill is. https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/species/roadkill
 
>I agree with nitis with the
>more non-res tags. BUT my
>twist on it would be
>this: With two draws, first
>the resident draw at the
>resident price. Then have the
>non-res draw at the non-res
>price, but the residents that
>didn't draw in the first
>draw can put in for
>the second draw at the
>non-resident price. And set the
>tag numbers equal(50/50), or something
>like that.
>

>


That's an interesting take for sure. But could you imagine how bad the department would botch that change? Just looked how many people got screwed this year.

And in all actuality I haven't run the numbers but I bet it would be fewer tags than you think that non residents would end up with as opposed to now.
 
>
>andrew12gauge, no way in he!! will
>I ever move to Utah.
>Not for the hunting, but
>because NONE of my vehicles
>would be able to be
>licensed and because they won't
>get the HE!! out of
>the left lane. There must
>be a law that they
>only can make so many
>lane changes in their lifetime.
>And/or they drive side by
>side.
>I just want to try to
>keep Idaho from making the
>same mistakes that Utah has
>and still is. Utah still
>has some really liberal hunting
>seasons, just so everyone can
>hunt every year. That is
>ok if the population can
>sustain every year, but not
>ok if it cannot. The
>IDFG justifies hunting by the
>buck to doe ratio. You
>cannot determine the population by
>that.
>I don't care that much about
>200" bucks(even though I want
>one), I care more about
>200 bucks(Total population).
>I hope you don't have to
>bring up me moving again,
>but if you have to
>defend your right to harvest
>every year when the population
>clearly cannot sutain it, then
>I don't mind.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Is this a better signature for
>me?
>________________________________________
>If you tell me that you
>hunt for meat, then you
>had better tell me how
>good road kill is. https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/species/roadkill
>

I don't need to justify a harvest every year, what I want is the opportunity to hunt and potentially harvest every year. Last year was only the second deer I've taken since moving to Idaho in 2008,and I took it because the freezer was empty. It was a 2 pt that I took while combining corn in unit 38. I then took a bull out of unit 39. It was my first branch antler bull and only elk since moving to Idaho. My goal was a branch antlered bull and I let a spike walk moment before taking it. Only a 4 point but I was happy. This year my goal will be a 6 pt or better bull and a good mature buck(probably 160 or better) the freezer is looking a little better this year than last. I also have a 2nd tag for the refuge at lake Lowell so hopefully I'll help the farmers a little and add a nice tasty doe to my freezer. I guess what I am saying is just because Idaho doesn't have the "trophy potential" you feel it should don't limit my opportunity to fill my freezer and potentially take a trophy in my eyes any season. We only have so many years to enjoy gods creation and bounty and that trophy you seek could be anywhere in this great state in any given year why limit the opportunity to seek it every year
 
>>Well for someone who hasn't shot
>>a 170 buck yet
>>you sure know a lot.
>>Maybe you should stop insulting
>>people who have lived here
>>all their lives and have
>>put some blood and sweat
>>into the game herds. See
>>we didn't hunt out the
>>back of the pickup or
>>on atv's or rode motorcycles
>>up the trails we WALKED.
>>You should be killing all
>>your 170 bucks you see
>>,it's much easier stalking in
>>on bucks because there ISN'T
>>a quarter of the deer
>>there used to be and
>>you have long range rifles
>>and rangefinders. Go buy
>>the book Idaho's greatest mule
>>deer???. see what Idaho was.
>
>Come on man! Post up your
>OTC 170 bucks!! You ought
>to have gobs of them
>on your wall from the
>80's. Damn, it was probably
>so good back then that
>you pros weren't shooting anything
>smaller than 180's on general
>tags!
>
>Draw tags don't count in this
>conversation.

FYI I grew up in the 80s with my father and uncles harvesting many 170+ deer. I don't recall them ever taking pictures of any of them until the 90s when it became hard to do on a regular basis.
Good for getting out and working your ass off and killing some nice deer but I agree with everyone you don't know what good hunting is so you probably shouldn't have such a strong opinion on it.

It seems like I am reading someone in NY rant about wolf hunting with great passion but no first hand knowledge of woofs.

Two mule deer tags is an irresponsible thing for idfg to do at thus time.
Justin
 
andrew12gauge,

Nice attitude. Let me take all mine right now and screw everyone else ... who cares about the future or what's best for the deer as long as I get what I want.

People wonder how this country got $15 trillion in debt it's with thinking like that.

You do only have so many years to enjoy God's creation and bounty and you might want to take a little time to read what God thought about greed and selfishness.
 
>andrew12gauge,
>
>Nice attitude. Let me take
>all mine right now and
>screw everyone else ... who
>cares about the future or
>what's best for the deer
>as long as I get
>what I want.
>
>People wonder how this country got
>$15 trillion in debt it's
>with thinking like that.
>
>You do only have so many
>years to enjoy God's creation
>and bounty and you might
>want to take a little
>time to read what God
>thought about greed and selfishness.
>

How is it greedy and selfish to take 2 deer and an elk over the course of 6 yrs to fill the freezer, especially when 1 of those bucks came from unit 38 which is other than a few small chunks of public ground widely under hunted. I am not trying to "take what's mine and screw the future" read up the thread a ways where I said maybe we should manage the habitat better as well as control the whitetail population as those are the biggest threats to mule deer. 75% of hunters probably never get more than 1/2 mile from their trucks/4 wheelers and 75% of the deer that are taken are probably taken beyond that same half mile mark. Those are just guesses on my part but educated guesses from what I've seen. I am not advocating that we all need to shoot every deer we can as a matter of fact I think it is reckless and irresponsible to allow the taking of 2 mule deer bucks by anyone in Idaho in a single season. What I am advocating is the ability to partake in the sport that we all enjoy and if I see fit to take an animal whether it be as a trophy or meat for my freezer. I don't want to have to sit on the sidelines for 2 out of every 3 yrs or longer or shorter than that. I don't get a lot of time to hunt each season, not nearly as much as I would like, but I do want the ability to spend a few days each year searching for quarry whether it is a freezer filling year(last year) or a trophy hunting year. I guess what I am saying is we each need to take a level of personal responsibility. I feel comfortable enough with the deer populations as they are. I think they are fairly stable at the levels they are now. Would I like to see more game, of course. Do I think that human hunting is at all what is holding back our mule deer populations, NO. Until the habitat, predators, and other ungulates are managed properly to achieve a balance that can promote growth it doesn't matter what we do, that is a bitter pill to swallow I know but unfortunately due to liberal environmentalists who have no clue about how the environment actually works we have forests that don't have the new growth to sustain life and predator populations that went unchecked for too long. Now we are starting to be able to manage those predators and while the recent wildfires have gotten out of control and burned so hot that no new growth is coming eventually(2-4 yrs down the road) new growth will come to our forests. Habitat will be improved and be capable of carrying a larger population of ungulates and that is how our deer herds will come back.
 
One more little thought for you to ruminate on if we as hunters decide we are the cause of the decline and we allow them to take away hunting for 2-3 years at a time or even limit it to every other year wouldn't the logical next step be for the anti-hunters to take it and run with it as an example of why all hunting should be banned. And given the political climate in our country today it could easily happen in 5 seconds. All it would take is one Sarah mclachlan song on a commercial about how cruel we as hunters are and how we have destroyed the mule deer herds and they could get the people of this country to vote all hunters executed
 
No. Other states have done it and idaho has done it. If you draw a controlled antlered hunt, you have to wait a year to put in for another. Would it be any different if it was for the general hunts? Not for the anti's. You sound paronid. You sould like the NRA. Don't get me wrong, they do fight for our second amendment rights. I just don't think the government is that stupid to take our guns and hunting away. But I guess they did elect an idiot for president, twice. You might have a point.







________________________________________
I'm not one for telling my grandson how big of turd I had to pinch off from having to eat so much meat. I want to give him the trophies that hang from my wall and tell him the unforgettable experience that came with each and every one.
 
Here?s the quote from you that I am basing my statement on ?

?I guess what I am saying is just because Idaho doesn't have the "trophy potential" you feel it should don't limit my opportunity to fill my freezer and potentially take a trophy in my eyes any season. We only have so many years to enjoy gods creation and bounty and that trophy you seek could be anywhere in this great state in any given year why limit the opportunity to seek it every year.?

I will tell you exactly why I think this statement is greedy and selfish ? you are putting your own personal wishes above what is best for the resource (mule deer) and future generations of hunters. We know mule deer are having a hard time and we know that things could be better, but you in your own words say why should I be limited. The reason we should limit opportunity is because it is the right thing to do for the deer and for future hunters. Plain and simple.

I will say this, I have noticed better numbers of deer over the last couple of years and find this very encouraging. I hunt the last couple of days of each season in unit 39 (among other places) and have been pleasantly surprised at what I have been seeing. Not like it used to be, but better than it was.
 
>I just don't think the
>government is that stupid to
>take our guns and hunting
>away. But I guess they
>did elect an idiot for
>president, twice. You might have
>a point.

Are you kidding with this statement, Obama, pelosi, Hillary they would take every legally owned gun in this country in a heartbeat if they could find a way to get away with it. There was a speech Obama did in Mexico a couple of years back he apologized to the Mexican people for Americas thirst for guns and drugs and the violence it causes in Mexico, he said he would love to do something about it, then and I quote here because I will never forget the way he said it "unfortunately in America we have the second amendment and my hands are tied". Now tell me the government wouldn't be stupid enough to take away our guns and hunting.

As far as your argument about sitting out 2 years after drawing a controlled hunt and that being no different than sitting out 2 years after a general season hunt that may be your stupidest argument yet. The purpose of the 2 year wait after drawing an antlered only controlled hunt is to give others a chance to draw, those people can still go out and buy a general tag each and every year like the rest of us. I don't even put in for antlered only controlled hunts for deer and elk. I prefer to apply for the trophy species because I think that the hunting on general tags is good enough and I would much rather draw a sheep, goat or moose tag
 
>Here?s the quote from you that
>I am basing my statement
>on ?
>
>?I guess what I am saying
>is just because Idaho doesn't
>have the "trophy potential" you
>feel it should don't limit
>my opportunity to fill my
>freezer and potentially take a
>trophy in my eyes any
>season. We only have so
>many years to enjoy gods
>creation and bounty and that
>trophy you seek could be
>anywhere in this great state
>in any given year why
>limit the opportunity to seek
>it every year.?
>
>I will tell you exactly why
>I think this statement is
>greedy and selfish ? you
>are putting your own personal
>wishes above what is best
>for the resource (mule deer)
>and future generations of hunters.
> We know mule deer
>are having a hard time
>and we know that things
>could be better, but you
>in your own words say
>why should I be limited.
> The reason we should
>limit opportunity is because it
>is the right thing to
>do for the deer and
>for future hunters. Plain
>and simple.
>
>I will say this, I have
>noticed better numbers of deer
>over the last couple of
>years and find this very
>encouraging. I hunt the
>last couple of days of
>each season in unit 39
>(among other places) and have
>been pleasantly surprised at what
>I have been seeing.
>Not like it used to
>be, but better than it
>was.

I think I have figured out where the disconnect lies between us, you are convinced that hunting is the factor limiting mule deer populations in Idaho, while I believe it to be a habitat issue. That being said there is no reason to allow the taking of 2 mule deer bucks in one season that we can agree on.

As for the issue we have gotten off on whether we should be allowed to hunt mule deer every year and my selfish take that I would at least enjoy the opportunity every year to hunt to potentially fill my freezer or take a trophy what I mean by that is every couple years some of us may just wanna take any buck to fill the freezer, then maybe trophy hunt during other years when the freezer is looking good.

Now let's play a game of hypotheticals. In my hypothetical world Idaho has put into effect a 1 tag every 3rd year policy. Let's say I las had a tag in 2014 the year before MMO and IDGator joined the f&g commission and enacted the every 3rd year policy. Now it's 2017 and I'm allowed my tag again, only problem is we just had a terrible 2016 winter and by August there are wildfires running rampant in the units I hunt. Now what am I supposed to do, I guess my only option would be to wait til 2020 and hope conditions are in my favor then.

Back to the real world now I took a meat buck last year. I have meat in my freezer and an extra doe tag so I'm not too worried about meat this year. I'll patiently wait for what I decide is a trophy in my eyes and if I don't find it I'll eat my tag. At least this way I control my own fate more than more government regulation
 
Here?s what I think ? there are a multitude of issues that impact mule deer (I'll list a few of what I believe are the big ones):

1. Weather - sever winters decimate the mule deer population
2. Lack of a serious feeding program by F&G in those sever winters (related to #1)
3. Habitat (related to #1)
4. Ridiculous number of doe tags that are issued (I would love to see doe tags severely reduced for a couple of years to build the herds and then antler restrictions to improve the age class in some units)
5. Too many roads and too many people on ATV?s on those roads
6. Predation (by bears, cats and wolves ? as well as poaching and vehicles. I'm seriously shocked at the number of dead deer I have seen on the side of the road ? It's really a shame)

I could keep going, but the point is that hunting isn't the only thing that is an issue, but it's one of the few things that could be easily addressed.

I have no issue with you shooting a mule deer as long as it isn't detrimental to the overall herd and the herd should be managed with a long term vision of restoration. Shooting 2 mule deer doesn't do any good for a mule deer population that is suffering. If you want to fill your freezer drive up to Grangeville and shoot a whitetail they are all over the place (especially if you bought a second tag and filled the first tag with a mule deer) or just hunt whitetails for a year or two and give the mulies a break.
 
>Here?s what I think ? there
>are a multitude of issues
>that impact mule deer (I'll
>list a few of what
>I believe are the big
>ones):
>
>1. Weather - sever winters
>decimate the mule deer population
>
>2. Lack of a serious
>feeding program by F&G in
>those sever winters (related to
>#1)
>3. Habitat (related to #1)
>
>4. Ridiculous number of doe
>tags that are issued (I
>would love to see doe
>tags severely reduced for a
>couple of years to build
>the herds and then antler
>restrictions to improve the age
>class in some units)
>5. Too many roads and
>too many people on ATV?s
>on those roads
>6. Predation (by bears, cats
>and wolves ? as well
>as poaching and vehicles.
>I'm seriously shocked at the
>number of dead deer I
>have seen on the side
>of the road ? It's
>really a shame)
>
>I could keep going, but the
>point is that hunting isn't
>the only thing that is
>an issue, but it's one
>of the few things that
>could be easily addressed.
>
>I have no issue with you
>shooting a mule deer as
>long as it isn't detrimental
>to the overall herd and
>the herd should be managed
>with a long term vision
>of restoration. Shooting 2
>mule deer doesn't do any
>good for a mule deer
>population that is suffering.
> If you want to
>fill your freezer drive up
>to Grangeville and shoot a
>whitetail they are all over
>the place (especially if you
>bought a second tag and
>filled the first tag with
>a mule deer) or just
>hunt whitetails for a year
>or two and give the
>mulies a break.

I am going to do a whitetail only tag one of these years but my wife and I have a baby due oct 17 so my most likely options for deer hunting are going to be closer to home. Most likely I'll chase deer around the farm a little here in 38 maybe try and get up to 39 or 43 for a day or two, and if all else fails hunt late archery in 39. I'm putting more eggs into the elk basket this year as I have a cousin coming down to hunt with me. As far as buying a second tag my wife and I are focusing all extra money on getting out of debt ASAP so maybe in a few years. Then I would definitely do a whitetail only for a second tag. Oh and I do have the extra doe tag for lake Lowell so I am pretty confident I'll restock the freezer this year.
 
Gettin rid of late mule deer buck hunts in units that already have a general season should be the first order of business, and wouldn't take away anybodies opportunity to hunt.
 
AGREED! Bad winters are #1. Look at the past 15 years for example. Have habitat, roads, traffic, # of hunters, etc., changed much since the late 1990s? Yes, to some degree. But look at how the herd has declined in those same 15 years, very dramatic. Now look at the rough winter years during that time frame. Seems to be a correlation there. (Some might say wolves have dramatically increased during that timeframe as well, which they have, but areas of the state like the Southeast part with very few wolves have also had a significant decline in the mule deer herd so we cant simply blame the wolves).

At least it seems like things have stabilized in last few years, which is good, but lets hope the coming winters aren't too rough.

>Here?s what I think ? there
>are a multitude of issues
>that impact mule deer (I'll
>list a few of what
>I believe are the big
>ones):
>
>1. Weather - sever winters
>decimate the mule deer population
>
>2. Lack of a serious
>feeding program by F&G in
>those sever winters (related to
>#1)
>3. Habitat (related to #1)
>
>4. Ridiculous number of doe
>tags that are issued (I
>would love to see doe
>tags severely reduced for a
>couple of years to build
>the herds and then antler
>restrictions to improve the age
>class in some units)
>5. Too many roads and
>too many people on ATV?s
>on those roads
>6. Predation (by bears, cats
>and wolves ? as well
>as poaching and vehicles.
>I'm seriously shocked at the
>number of dead deer I
>have seen on the side
>of the road ? It's
>really a shame)
>
>I could keep going, but the
>point is that hunting isn't
>the only thing that is
>an issue, but it's one
>of the few things that
>could be easily addressed.
>
>I have no issue with you
>shooting a mule deer as
>long as it isn't detrimental
>to the overall herd and
>the herd should be managed
>with a long term vision
>of restoration. Shooting 2
>mule deer doesn't do any
>good for a mule deer
>population that is suffering.
> If you want to
>fill your freezer drive up
>to Grangeville and shoot a
>whitetail they are all over
>the place (especially if you
>bought a second tag and
>filled the first tag with
>a mule deer) or just
>hunt whitetails for a year
>or two and give the
>mulies a break.
 
there is a simple solution to this problem if you think the deer herds are on the decline which they may or may not be don't buy a 2nd tag at non res price who would any was even if they are discounted really 199.00$ when an otc res deer 19.75$. I am no trophy hunter by no means I do hunt hard though and I buy a CH tag sometimes most the time I get an otc one. If you feel the herds are down no one is forcing anyone to buy a second tag they are offering it doesn't mean you have to buy it. the time I spend with my wife and are horses and mules in the back country for 2 /3 weeks in Oct. is worth more than any wall hanger, don't get me wrong a wall hanger would be nice just not my #1 time spent is her is more valuable, that all
 
'Dawgs makes too much sense. Don't you realize the MM Idaho crowd will never be satisfied just managing themselves? They absolutely need to control what everyone else does too.


Otherwise it's one big blubber-fest.







the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
Same arguments different players, ya just gotta jump in an stir it up once in awhile. lol

I guess I know to many chest pounders that need to be managed!
 
Here are some numbers for average number of deer (MD and WT)killed by hunters during various periods:

1961-1970: 68,369 (peak 77,087; Low 56,438)
1971-1980: 43,234 (peak 54,014; Low 25,427)
1981-1987: 52,514 (peak 66,400; Low 42,600)
1988-1990: 83,166 (peak 95,200; Low 72,100)
1991 harvest was 69,100 and began to decline bottoming out at 38,600 in 1997.
2000-2010: 47,510 (peak 54,200; Low 42,189)

Apparently, not much has changed in the last 30 years except for a brief period in the late 80?s when harvest nearly hit 100K. What these numbers don't show is how many were whitetail and how many were mule deer. That information is only available from 2005 onward. The data I found on IDFG shows that from 2005-2010 Mule deer made up on average 55% of the harvest. A few spot checks shows this to be true for 200-2004 as well. However, I believe that MD made up a larger percentage of the total harvest prior to IDFG separating the data for the two species.

Here is what I think has caused the decline in Mule deer.

First off we cannot blame IDFG; mule deer have declined in every western state, there is something larger at play than any individual state fish and game dept. can take credit for.

Second, we have lost a lot of winter range, our summer ranges can support thousands more deer but the winter range is the limiting factor. Some has been lost to development and some have lost productivity due to invasive noxious weeds.

Third, predator numbers have been increasing since the 1970?s. Idaho currently has more Mtn. lions and Bears that ever before Other western states are in the same boat.

Fourth, encroachment by elk and whitetails. I believe that throughout southern Idaho there should be an unlimited season on whitetails. You should be able to shoot as many as you want to buy tags for and the season should run from September to December. There are plenty of whitetails in other parts of the state to provide opportunity for whitetail hunters.

Fifth, ATV?s, there has been a direct correlation between the increase in ATV use and the decline of Mule deer.

Sixth, Perception, seasons used to run through November when deer are congregated and the big bucks drop their guard during the rut. Of course hunters would have seen more and bigger deer under those conditions than we do today during October seasons.
 
I see a lot of logic in the last few posts. The one thing missing from your six points is the fact that 30 years ago not nearly as many hunters were TROPHY hunters and while some guys talk about all the big bucks, many hunters were looking for meat.

Bottom line, if we don't want to have F&G need to sell more NR tags to raise the revenue they need, then we need to support increases their revenue by paying higher resident fee's.

I would support a limit on a second tag to take two mule deer, in trade for higher resident license and tag fee's.

I do think that NR fee's on predators(Wolves,Bears, and Cats) should be waived for NR Deer and Elk tag holders to allow more "opportunity" take and hopefully the NR hunters see some value in those "free" add on's.

I will take advantage of the NR tag opportunities, particlarly at lower prices, but only for additional opportunities at a whitetail, actually making it easier to not shoot a Muley, and for more opportunity to be paitient for a big bull, but hopefully otherwise shooting a yearling(spike or cow)for the freezer.

So, for me this opportunity would lower the take on Muley's and older age class bull elk while increasing revenue. I certainly may not be the norm.
 

Similar threads

Founder
Great Hunt Testimonial for Sonora Outfitters
Replies
0
Views
465
Founder
Founder

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

IMG_4220 (1).JPG
20210919_225909.jpg
CC85C257-D8A4-4403-9708-C4C4FD99D9C6.jpeg
IMG_6339.jpg
FB_IMG_1498518481739.jpg
Jared’s Meat Buck
250354940_10161348003859046_1667185585756809355_n.jpg
236A5298 MM.JPG
42119A91-5B0B-4F66-806E-288B0EE59B80.jpeg
Monster Bull from the San Carlos
IMG_20211029_104914_147.jpg
4.jpg

Idaho Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Bearpaw Outfitters

Idaho Deer & Elk Allocation Tags, Plus Bear, Bison, Lion, Moose, Turkey and Montana Prairie Dogs.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, whitetail, bear, lion and wolf hunts and spend hundreds of hours scouting.

Jokers Wild Outdoors

Trophy elk, whitetail, mule deer, antelope, bear and moose hunts. 35k acres of private land.

Back
Top Bottom