Cow Poaching

Nope. One is a private matter and the other is a public matter (losing hunting rights over poaching wildlife).

You shoot someone's livestock and that is a private matter, a wanton destruction and lost of private property. No real differnce than grand theft auto.
 
yoteduster said:
Any idiot shooting someones cow, horse or sheep ect. Deserves to loose their hunting rights for life...
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Not saying I advocate for shooting livestock, but how is that a crime against the citizens of UT as the shared ownership of wildlife wasn't harmed? The wreckless use of a firearm, on the otherhand, could be a reason to be disqualified for hunting rights...
 
The two don't seem to be related unless of course someone mistakes a cow for an elk.

If, like in this case where there is clearly intentional killing of livestock, they probably don't have a hunting license to begin with. Convict them of a felony and they can't have a gun, period.
 
Careful talking about cows here.......I had a post censored for calling a cow a “stinking bastard”.

Apparently the cowboys here really aren’t that tough. :ROFLMAO:
 
Must be a Utah thing. Montanans can tell the difference between cattle, and well, any other critter. mtmuley
 
If we all start eating oat ice cream, drinking almond milk, and pounding the soy burgers....there won’t be a need for cattle and cows and our elk herds will rebound to nothing but 400” bulls. Then we can eliminate sheep over grazing. All we need to do is start wearing pop bottle clothing and the sheep will disappear.
While this is going on, we can put our tin foil hats back on and think of more great ideas to save our herds and the earth.
 
BLooDTRaCKeR said:
If we all start eating oat ice cream, drinking almond milk, and pounding the soy burgers....there won’t be a need for cattle and cows and our elk herds will rebound to nothing but 400” bulls. Then we can eliminate sheep over grazing. All we need to do is start wearing pop bottle clothing and the sheep will disappear.
While this is going on, we can put our tin foil hats back on and think of more great ideas to save our herds and the earth.
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Tin foil? Stop public land mining ?
 
roadrunner said:
Then how will we get the rare earth metals to make batteries for the precious green energy push?
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Is there a rare earths mine on public land? Maybe a new one in Wyo. Pretty sure the new mill in Hondo TX or wherever will be on private. But that ore is coming from AU.

I know for certain Mtn Pass isn’t on public having spent considerable time there.
 
Bluehair said:
Is there a rare earths mine on public land? Maybe a new one in Wyo. Pretty sure the new mill in Hondo TX or wherever will be on private. But that ore is coming from AU.

I know for certain Mtn Pass isn’t on public having spent considerable time there.
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Oh, that's right - we rely on other countries to provide that for us. You know, it's OK for them to scar the "public" landscape, just not us...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
mta5672 said:
Can you explain the subsidies that I get?
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ever heard of govt trappers? They are working for you to get rid of that evil coyote etc. Do you how much they spend a year? Sure would like the govt to step in and get rid of my competition.

The fact they charge so little to graze on public compared to private is another. While you’re not directly getting $$$ if that’s not welfare what is?

Oh and not to mention relief aid when there’s a drought etc etc. Herd cows in a high desert and there’s a drought? SURPRISE!!!

If you’re not taking advantage of all the govt will give you I suggest talk to the other ranchers after they get back buying their yearly new pickup trucks ??
 
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roadrunner said:
Oh, that's right - we rely on other countries to provide that for us. You know, it's OK for them to scar the "public" landscape, just not us...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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You are correct. BUT you should know that your government has made fairly large financial contributions toward securing a domestic supply. It makes all the more interesting when you start looking into why our domestic supply sits idle (last I checked a few years back).

But, if history isn’t your bag, you can watch the new processing facility in Texas unfold in real time. Being put in and run by an Australian firm, with a little help from the taxpayers thrown in.

Our government isn’t that good at business I guess. What do we get for an AU these days?
 
Slightlysober said:
ever heard of govt trappers? They are working for you to get rid of that evil coyote etc. Do you how much they spend a year? Sure would like the govt to step in and get rid of my competition.

The fact they charge so little to graze on public compared to private is another. While you’re not directly getting $$$ if that’s not welfare what is?

Oh and not to mention relief aid when there’s a drought etc etc. Herd cows in a high desert and there’s a drought? SURPRISE!!!

If you’re not taking advantage of all the govt will give you I suggest talk to the other ranchers after they get back buying their yearly new pickup trucks ??
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Ok stop the government trapper program, but if you stop that program you need to let the livestock operators take care of the predators in any means necessary. The livestock owners did a pretty good job at eliminating the wolf's in the lower 48 once I suppose they could do it again.
I know of plenty of farmers that run no livestock but have dozens of deer on there crops throughout the year. In Utah all you need to do is give a written notice to the DWR that if they do not remove the animals that are damaging crops within 72 hours you then have the right to kill all animals destroying crops on the private property.
That is not a good outcome for the big game herds.
I am not even going into some of the benefits at thear cost and time that ranchers do for the grazing allotments that benefit big game animals.
Slightlysober you need to realize that some Government programs that help ranchers and farmers are also designed to help Protect the big game animals and even predators that hunters and the general public like.
 
Slightlysober said:
ever heard of govt trappers? They are working for you to get rid of that evil coyote etc. Do you how much they spend a year? Sure would like the govt to step in and get rid of my competition.

The fact they charge so little to graze on public compared to private is another. While you’re not directly getting $$$ if that’s not welfare what is?

Oh and not to mention relief aid when there’s a drought etc etc. Herd cows in a high desert and there’s a drought? SURPRISE!!!

If you’re not taking advantage of all the govt will give you I suggest talk to the other ranchers after they get back buying their yearly new pickup trucks ??
Click to expand...

This just shows how ignorant you truly are. There are no gov't trappers anywhere near me. Please enlighten me on how much I pay for the grazing on government(OUR land) land. Please direct me on where I can get my relief aid money for the drought etc etc? My banker cant seem to find it either?

The public land we graze on is in 10 times better shape than if we didnt run on it. The springs are all developed and we have ran water to tanks that every animal uses in places where there has not been water in over 100 years, at our expense. And I will show you many mature mule deer buck, a very good population of elk, and a growing population of whitetails.

I will save typing the whole book. I would invite you to come look at our operation and our many neighbors that run very similar to us. I think it would open your eyes and you may even learn something. Every statement you have made shows me that you really dont have any data to back up, what amounts to whining.
 
mta5672 said:
This just shows how ignorant you truly are. There are no gov't trappers anywhere near me. Please enlighten me on how much I pay for the grazing on government(OUR land) land. Please direct me on where I can get my relief aid money for the drought etc etc? My banker cant seem to find it either?

The public land we graze on is in 10 times better shape than if we didnt run on it. The springs are all developed and we have ran water to tanks that every animal uses in places where there has not been water in over 100 years, at our expense. And I will show you many mature mule deer buck, a very good population of elk, and a growing population of whitetails.

I will save typing the whole book. I would invite you to come look at our operation and our many neighbors that run very similar to us. I think it would open your eyes and you may even learn something. Every statement you have made shows me that you really dont have any data to back up, what amounts to whining.
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If you seriously believe that the range is in 10x better shape because of your cattle which eat up to 30 lbs a day s the discussion can end there. You're being closed minded and the bias is running strong.

Send me a PM and if its a spot I'm close to in my travels next month I'll swing by. It would be cool to check out the first place ever in the history of grazing that is 10x better, has big mule deer running around, lots of elk and whitetails! Seriously there's never been a place. Hell even if its a day's drive from where I'll be I gotta check this out. Let me know what type of beer you drink and I'll make sure to bring you some. Or if you want to try some AK beer I can bring some down. Thanks!

Looking forward to that PM.
 
Bluehair said:
You are correct. BUT you should know that your government has made fairly large financial contributions toward securing a domestic supply. It makes all the more interesting when you start looking into why our domestic supply sits idle (last I checked a few years back).

But, if history isn’t your bag, you can watch the new processing facility in Texas unfold in real time. Being put in and run by an Australian firm, with a little help from the taxpayers thrown in.

Our government isn’t that good at business I guess. What do we get for an AU these days?
Click to expand...

And that is precisely why revoking hunting privilege's over the theft of someone's property shouldn't be an issue. In this case, shooting a bull, milk cow, or steer...
 
I will be willing to bet that not one of the guys on here whining about public land grazing have ceased to eat beef.

I grew up in eastern Nevada, back in the early 80's that country was VERY good mule deer hunting and had plenty of deer to go around. Today, with about half of the cattle population the deer herds are piss poor at best. So, essentially, half of the public land grazing is gone and the deer herds continue to decline. Tell me again how the cows are ruining the deer habitat. I am pretty damn sure your crusade is against the wrong species....
 
mta5672 said:
I will be willing to bet that not one of the guys on here whining about public land grazing have ceased to eat beef.

I grew up in eastern Nevada, back in the early 80's that country was VERY good mule deer hunting and had plenty of deer to go around. Today, with about half of the cattle population the deer herds are piss poor at best. So, essentially, half of the public land grazing is gone and the deer herds continue to decline. Tell me again how the cows are ruining the deer habitat. I am pretty damn sure your crusade is against the wrong species....
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It's amazing to me that deer and elk thrive on private ranches, where grazing cattle and sheep occurs. That's just crazy:)
 
Slightlysober said:
ever heard of govt trappers? They are working for you to get rid of that evil coyote etc. Do you how much they spend a year? Sure would like the govt to step in and get rid of my competition.

The fact they charge so little to graze on public compared to private is another. While you’re not directly getting $$$ if that’s not welfare what is?

Oh and not to mention relief aid when there’s a drought etc etc. Herd cows in a high desert and there’s a drought? SURPRISE!!!

If you’re not taking advantage of all the govt will give you I suggest talk to the other ranchers after they get back buying their yearly new pickup trucks ??
Click to expand...
So, using your "logic", your personal use of public land is a form of welfare. How much do you pay for the "free" gov't program? Someone has to pay for the land and the upkeep. Heck, there's a $19 billion dollar backlog on maintenance alone for our public lands. But that probably doesn't make much difference to you.
Anyway, instead of crying in a corner, the gov't and cattleman are looking into "Outcome Based Grazing", which will use actual range conditions to calculate the proper allotment of grazing allowed for that year. This does make a lot of sense because that is what responsible cattlemen have been doing on private property for years.
 
Lots of deer and elk winter on those ranches that run cows on the mountains. Same deal with BLM lands that butt up to ranch lands.
Take the cows off NF and BLM and those ranchers will and can shoot every deer and elk on their private land (seen it happen in Utah ) there has to be a happy parties or it will take out hunting as we know it.
 
Man if that is the case we have more serious issues in society then I thought. Not out of the question though.

I read an article in the Local Farm and Dairy paper I get every two weeks that someone in pa lost their prized cow when someone shot it from the road in their pasture. They put some serious reward money up to catch them.
 
Gator said:
Lots of deer and elk winter on those ranches that run cows on the mountains. Same deal with BLM lands that butt up to ranch lands.
Take the cows off NF and BLM and those ranchers will and can shoot every deer and elk on their private land (seen it happen in Utah ) there has to be a happy parties or it will take out hunting as we know it.
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I've seen it happen in California too. The rancher dug an open pit with a D-8 Cat and buried the deer. Fish & Game just watched.
 
heywouldya said:
So, using your "logic", your personal use of public land is a form of welfare. How much do you pay for the "free" gov't program? Someone has to pay for the land and the upkeep. Heck, there's a $19 billion dollar backlog on maintenance alone for our public lands. But that probably doesn't make much difference to you.
Anyway, instead of crying in a corner, the gov't and cattleman are looking into "Outcome Based Grazing", which will use actual range conditions to calculate the proper allotment of grazing allowed for that year. This does make a lot of sense because that is what responsible cattlemen have been doing on private property for years.
Click to expand...
But are all of these cattleman “responsible”? I could show you a few around Wyoming that aren’t. Grass eaten down to the dirt so bad that hardly anything can grow now. Public chunks where they’ve grazed past the allotted time. The BLM doesn’t have personnel driving around to check. Seems the grass in Yellowstone and Teton park always come back pretty well though. Wonder why that is??!
 
Wyboypt said:
But are all of these cattleman “responsible”? I could show you a few around Wyoming that aren’t. Grass eaten down to the dirt so bad that hardly anything can grow now. Public chunks where they’ve grazed past the allotted time. The BLM doesn’t have personnel driving around to check. Seems the grass in Yellowstone and Teton park always come back pretty well though. Wonder why that is??!
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You are right some ranchers do a poor job managing their herds but generally they don't make it long in the livestock industry when your weaned calfs are 100 or more pounds lighter than the ranchers that are responsible. The ranchers that are responsible for good range management will be awarded with better cow calf production.
I do not support anyone over grazing but if BLM or FFSL is over grazed then it is the BLM or the FFSL responsibility to take action, so us the public should be putting pressure on them to do there job.
 
Gator said:
Lots of deer and elk winter on those ranches that run cows on the mountains. Same deal with BLM lands that butt up to ranch lands.
Take the cows off NF and BLM and those ranchers will and can shoot every deer and elk on their private land (seen it happen in Utah ) there has to be a happy parties or it will take out hunting as we know it.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that's the case in Colorado. A friend of mine had a herd of elk eating hay out of his barn. Hay that was needed to keep his cattle alive over the winter. he asked fish and game for help, they refused. He shot a few of the cows and was arrested and fined for it. The only BLM land he uses is the land that is landlocked within his private property.
 
I find it interesting that encyclopedia slightlysober has been absent from the conversation, maybe he is learning something some where else so he can add value later!
 
heywouldya said:
I don't believe that's the case in Colorado. A friend of mine had a herd of elk eating hay out of his barn. Hay that was needed to keep his cattle alive over the winter. he asked fish and game for help, they refused. He shot a few of the cows and was arrested and fined for it. The only BLM land he uses is the land that is landlocked within his private property.
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Fence it in so the elk can't get at the hay
He deserved to get arrested
 
Ultimag said:
Fence it in so the elk can't get at the hay
He deserved to get arrested
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Have you seen what elk do to fences? Obviously not.
If you'll read the post, I was stating the way ranchers are treated in Colorado as opposed to Utah. Judge away if you'd like.
 

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