Cut and run republicans ?

H

huntindude

Guest
So it it cut and run or common sense? Sen. Lugar and Vionovich, two of Bush's cheerleaders said yesterday they didn't think the troop surge would work and it's not. they say it's time to work out a bipartisan solution while Bush still has that option, and he won't have it for long. republican support was supposed to last until September but Lugar says it's better to begin troop pull outs soon than to have a rushed pull out later. niether say they'll support a time line but it is time for a major change, the whitehouse of course is whining for more time. we've been told for several years if this happened the world would come to an end, any bets on that?

This is proof our system works, it just takes time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-07 AT 08:48AM (MST)[p]When are these guys going to learn? Did you see the special on CNN.com about our wounded war heroes? It was the saddest thing I've ever seen. One soldier got shot in the head at point blank range and survived. He is now blind, retarded and a quadrapalegic. His parents quit their jobs to care for him and he's probably 20 years old. The soldiers that come home wounded should automatically get a minimum $100,000 per year in benefits and free healthcare so they don't have to worry about anything. I would like to know what they get instead. I'm all for monitoring the middle east with our technology, just don't put our boys through this crap. Those F...ing ragheads ain't worth it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-07 AT 08:50AM (MST)[p]I doubt the world will come to an end. My only question is the last combat brigade that makes up this surge just became operational 10 days ago, how can the surge be judged so soon?

I don't think there are many Republicans that will back another $100 billion troop funding bill that doesn't require a major draw down of U.S. Troops in Iraq.

I also don't think there is any political will to actually change anything. This ground is too fertile for the Democrats, it is like bizzaro world, the only people who can force a change would be the Republican minority in congress. No way can the dems let the troops start coming home too soon, they need to war to last long enough to get elected then they can afford to end it.

It is a cluster. Lugar is a smart guy, hope somebody is listening to what he is saying.

Nemont
 
Lugar is a pretty sharp guy and the republicans are listening, now he's cleared the way for them to speak and vote as they've known they should for some time now. like Lugar says the September report by Petraeus isn't a big deal to congress, they're getting daily breifings and Bush's plan isn't working and it's not going to work. he's smart enough to call a spade a spade and start debating where we go from here.
 
I think we can all now agree that Shinsiki and Zinni were correct in their war plans for 350,000 troops. Not so much to win the war, but to secure the peace and the borders after the war. Once we were there Abizaid's multiple requests fell on deaf ears and when he spoke publicly he was removed.

The surge isn't so much a surge as it is a bump. A surge would be 75,000 - 100,000 troops which when counting private contractors would put 300,000+ boots on the ground.

Lugar like so many conservatives has run out of patience and party line towing. Conservatives by their very nature believe in a strong and effective military.

After 4 1/2 years, billions of dollars, tens of thousand injured, thousands dead, we still cannot repair infrastructure or guarantee security.

Georgie, P-rick Cheney, the Military Industrial Complex, and the Military all have their agendas. Sadly these agendas don't fall in line with most of the American people.

Politicians are crafty by their very nature, when a well-known and respected member of their party speaks out, others will soon align their views. Expect to see more like Lugar, break ranks, I think this will be healthy for the GOP and the country.
 
Lugar is a p_ _ _ y. He is looking at re-election only. 10 days does not a surge make. Pi_ _ on Lugar. He can rot as far as I am concerned.
 
>Lugar is a p_ _ _
>y. He is looking at
>re-election only. 10 days does
>not a surge make. Pi_
>_ on Lugar. He can
>rot as far as I
>am concerned.

Exactly! He IS looking at re-election! Those elected officials who want to remain in office BETTER start listening to the American people! Well, at least 70% of them anyway.
 
If there's anything I hate it's a polititian who doesn't act like he's running a dictatorship. this will of the people crap is way over rated, huh 202?
 
You do NOT run a war based on the mood of the people day to day. You run based on what is the best option according to the Generals and military leaders, NOT some POS politican who is kissing arse and trying to get his 15 minutes of fame! You don't take a poll everytime a decision needs to be made on the ground in Iraq. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know if the surge is/will work yet, they haven't even been at full surge two weeks for crying out loud. How does this sell-out POS know if it is going to work? He can NOT, that leaves only political motives compeling him to turn his tail between his legs and cower with the libs. Funny how the liberal medis portrays this guy as "brave, couragous, willing to take a stand", yet when a Democrat like Liberman sides with the conservatives, he is branded as a, "sell-out, out of touch, a neo-con", now tell me how there is no media bias.

PRO
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-07
>AT 08:48?AM (MST)

>
>When are these guys going to
>learn? Did you see
>the special on CNN.com about
>our wounded war heroes?
>It was the saddest thing
>I've ever seen. One
>soldier got shot in the
>head at point blank range
>and survived. He is
>now blind, retarded and a
>quadrapalegic. His parents quit
>their jobs to care for
>him and he's probably 20
>years old. The soldiers
>that come home wounded should
>automatically get a minimum $100,000
>per year in benefits and
>free healthcare so they don't
>have to worry about anything.
> I would like to
>know what they get instead.
> I'm all for monitoring
>the middle east with our
>technology, just don't put our
>boys through this crap.
>Those F...ing ragheads ain't worth
>it.


I was wondering the same thing just yesterday...anybody know?
 
This war has been unpopular for several years now, it's not a snap decision this country is fed up and time is up. it's not too soon to tell, like Lugar says even if the surge were to work in Baghdad what about the rest of Iraq? rename Baghdad to Bartertown and just accept the rest of the country is waste land you don't venture into? yeah, that's worth sticking around for.

Polititians have always run wars, always have always will. nothing new or unforseen here.
 
Huntindude,

I like how you bring reality into these topics when a few others are in pretend land. It really brings it home for me. Thanks.
 
I believe Lugar has supported the war for many years. You don't think that Republicans are hearing about how unpopular the war is when they are in their home districts.

Senators and Representatives ignore the mood of the people at their own peril.

The debate has already begun inside the administration and in the back rooms of congress about how best to end the war. Whether it will end isn't in the discussion. The discussion is how to withdraw, the proper timelines, what residual forces will stay and what routes, ports, airfields and assets will be required for withdrawl.

I think a senior Senator like Lugar, who is an expert in foreign affairs, is voicing what is being talked about in the smoke filled back rooms.

Nemont
 
Well in my opinion he and any other member of the Senate or House of reps that is calling this war lost or calling for a withdraw is a woos.
Instead of taking the easy way out like a coward why does'nt he and every other of member of Congress band together and win this thing.

And Dude before you go off on one of you typical pessamistic tirades, believe me when I say this war can be won. That there is no doubt. The problem is America is full or wimps and pessamist with no will to win. If this war had more of effect on our daily lives I think things would be much different.

The American public is barraged every hour of every day with nothing but anti war rhetorick by the media it is no wonder much of us Americans have lost the will to fight. Just more of the chickafication of this country.
 
202 you seem to be the only one thinking this war is the greatest thing since sliced bread. why don't you and your pro war militia hold some bake sales and car washes for fund raisers, grab your AR-15's and catch the next thing smoking for Iraq? I'm tired of paying for it and watching our guys die for what I agree with the majority of the country is a lost cause. you have to take cost into account on everything, meaning money and blood, this has been a poor investment and it's not going to be a better one by hanging in there forever like an idiot. your day in the sun is over, accept it.
 
The Real Iraq Debate

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, June 26, 2007

Quietly, the real debate over Iraq is beginning.

It's not about whether the United States should pull out troops. That is now inevitable. The real challenge is to figure out the right timetable for withdrawal, whether a residual force should be left there and which American objectives can still be salvaged.

This is not the debate President Bush wants to have come September, when a slew of reports will be issued assessing the results of the troop surge. Already, the administration is preparing the ground for kicking the real choices into next year. Where once the White House seemed to be saying, "Give us until September," its spokesmen now seem to be insisting that we won't know much by then after all.

"If you want a definitive judgment, I've warned from the very beginning about expecting some sort of magical thing to happen in September," White House press secretary Tony Snow said earlier this month. All we'll have then, he said, is "a little bit of a metric to see what happens when you have all the forces in place for the Baghdad security plan."

"A Little Bit of a Metric" -- sounds like a song that Snow's rock band might play.

The facts are these: We do not have enough troops to commit to Iraq to turn things around militarily, and the political situation is too fractured to give rise to a sudden burst of cooperation between Shiites and Sunnis.

Colin Kahl, a nonresident fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), a middle-of-the-road think tank that launches formally tomorrow, sees the American saga in Iraq as the Goldilocks story in reverse. We sent a large enough contingent of troops to give the United States responsibility for security but too few to keep order. "Not hot enough, not cold enough, just wrong," Kahl says.

Time is running out, because most Americans no longer believe the administration's promises that the commitment in Iraq will turn out well if only we are patient. This is why we need to begin planning our withdrawal now rather than waiting until the Army and the reserves hit the breaking point. Oddly, President Bush has more of an interest in this than anyone. "The more time passes, the more our options narrow," says Kurt Campbell, the chief executive and co-founder of CNAS. "Left unchallenged, the president would fight to exhaustion, and we can't afford to fight to exhaustion."

In one of its inaugural reports, CNAS suggests reducing the American presence in Iraq by 100,000 troops between now and the beginning of 2009. But it would keep 60,000 troops in Iraq for four years beyond that, not only to train the army but also to work with "tribal, local and provincial leaders" who are fighting al-Qaeda.

It is not clear to me that a lengthy commitment of that sort is either possible or desirable. But the report, written by James Miller and Shawn Brimley, has the virtue of defining three sensible goals for American policy: to prevent the establishment of al-Qaeda havens in Iraq; to prevent a regional war; and to prevent genocide. Miller defines the right objective for those who want to end the war: "There should be a much better plan for withdrawal than there was for entry." Indeed.

That's why it's also useful that yesterday, the Center for American Progress, a center-left think tank, released its own plan for a much more rapid withdrawal. The center's plan would have all American troops out of Iraq before the end of 2008, except for a force of 8,000 to 10,000 in the Kurdish area for an additional year. The United States owes a serious commitment to the Kurds, both for historical reasons and for the help they have given America in this conflict.

Lawrence J. Korb, a senior fellow at Center for American Progress, argues that "the quicker you get out, the quicker you can recapture control of your policy in the area." And the longer the United States stays, the greater will be the damage to our armed forces. "You're ruining your ability to confront the global terrorist threat," he says. "You're ruining the Army."

Up to now, the administration has insisted that the only question in the Iraq debate is whether to withdraw. These two reports lay out the parameters for the argument we need now: how to end a disastrous war in a way that best serves America's long-term interests. The president would be better served if he entered the new debate. If he ignores it, it will pass him by
 
Its not that Dude it is just I am not as quick as you are to bail out and give up. I see the glass as half full and there are posative things happening in Iraq. I honestly believe if we Americans were not sucj a bunch of babies we could turn this thing around and finish it.

Osama predicted exactly what is happening and he predicted perfectly the mindset of folks like you. Hope you like what comes next.
 
202 , Nemont's post says it all.

Iraq is a wreck, the sooner we get out the sooner we can rebuild our dignity and maybe turn our attention back to the war on terror where should have been. if we'ld have stayed on track maybe you'ld have gotten a few more quotes out of Bin Laden before we hung him.
 
If you had any doubt you can put then to rest, the war is near over. SR republican Pete Domenici said today he can see things are not improving in Iraq. He will now support a plan to pull troops out of combat and onto the path home.

So all of you who said the world will come to and end if this happened, time to stock up on Pop Tarts, Cheetos, beer and porn then head for your underground bunker.

I'm going to take my chances above ground so if you drew any good tags let's see if they can be transfered to me, why waste them right? besides while I'm out hunting if I see any rag heads headed your way I'll take a few shots at 'em.
 
Funny this post should pop up again because I was thinking about just this morning. I heard a news blip on the radio that 423 civilian bodies were recovered this month in Iraq. This falls under the title "Sectarian Murders".

Now George said that the Sectarian Monthly Murder rate would serve as the measuring stick for the surge. If that is to be the case the month of June was a 43% increase in sectarian murders.

I also found it interesting that Domenici is not satisfied with the new Iraqi government. It was almost as if he forgot that we obliterated any form nationalized security, allowed sectarian strife due to insufficient troop numbers, portrayed their 1-day notification of candidates prior to the election as normal, left the borders so porous that Al Sadr is able to come and go from Iran at will, and damaged the countries infrastructure.

Domenici has such large testicles he does not even need a chair to sit down in. His testicles are so large they actually have their own independent gravitational pull with moons orbiting them.

Now many have made comments on the passing of Iraq's privatization of oil laws being approved as the pivotal point to sooth unrest. I heard today that top Shiite clerics have issued a fatwah against such privatization laws.

I've said it before pull half the troops out, place the other half in the north and south. At the height of the fighting in Al Anbar and Baghdad, let BOBCATBESS fly over and turn middle Iraq into a large sheet of glass or drop Domenici's testicles on them.
 

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