Damn Wolves

Hey Deer!

We Got Wolves in TARDville!

A Few anyway!

For Some Reason they just don't do to Well in TARDville!











[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
>"surplus killing" must be the politically
>correct phrase for wiping out
>the elk.

Hey Eel?

'SLAUGHTERING' just isn't PC anymore!












[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
So 19 elk stood around and let wolves kill them. Like to see that happen with a wild herd. That's what happens when tey are waiting for the next hay bale. mtmuley
 
I love the quote at the end from the wolf hugger stating how studies show wolves only kill what they eat.

Well, except for when they don't, I guess!
 
>I love the quote at the
>end from the wolf hugger
>stating how studies show wolves
>only kill what they eat.
>
>
>Well, except for when they don't,
>I guess!


I believe you're referring to the statement at the end of the article by Mike Jimenez. I don't know if he would be classified as a wolf hugger since he's one of the main USFWS biologists in charge of wolves in Wyoming for the Feds and that was their study he referred to.
 
Normally a pack will not "surplus kill" like that. The theory in wildlife biology is that predators kill, eat, and stop hunting for the most part until they get hungry again. If they don't eat anything the drive to kill does not go away (or become reduced), and they just keep killing more prey.

Obviously, a fox in the hen house, or predator in a coral doesn't give the predator the time to eat before they kill everything that moves. I am curious how spread out the elk were when they were killed. Were they inside a fenced area where the calves could not escape?

USFWS should remove the problem animals or the whole pack in that area. Actions like this tend to become habitual if they are not "mitigated." The worst thing they could do is let animals from the pack move around and teach other packs this nasty trick.

Sorry, that is the wildlife biologist in me surfacing. Six years of wildlife biology in college does that to a person.

Dillon
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-16 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]Good post dillon and what you mentioned is why the USFWS aerial gunned 5 from the pack last week and may keep taking more out for just the reason you mentioned.
 
It looks like those wolves sure filled up on those carcasses! What a waste! They should be caught and put in the same jail cell as poachers. Let the two offenders work out their problem behind closed doors...
 
They are smart hunters. A guy I hunted with watched a pack of 3 wolves kill 11 deer in the winter. They had 2 wolves at the bottom of the hill and one at the top. One of the bottom ones chased the deer towards the top then sat and rested while the top wolf ran the deer down towards the fresh rested wolf. Which in turn ran them up to the the wolf that was resting at the top. Eventually after several cycles of the wolfs taking turns resting and the deer not the deer were exhausted and the wolfs were not and they started killing the deer. I am relaying the story as it was told and I have no reason to doubt this gentlemen. This all happened in Idaho before there was ever a hunt opened for wolves.
 
>Must have been one Hell of
>a big pack to run
>19 elk up and down
>a mountain to kill them.
>mtmuley


As I recall it's supposedly the same pack that they took 5 out of last week by aerial gunning and there was 18 in the pack.
 
So what do you call wild? and WTF difference does it make how " wild " they were?

Next you and Buzz will tell us this is good for the elk I expect.














Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
All stressed out big game are vulnerable for mass slaughter by predators during the severe winter months. How do you define wild mtmuley? So what if they are feeding in a man made feed lot.

In Kalifornicated we supposedly have one pack of shittty wolves. The big Giv't lie. We definately have more than one pack. Shoot, skadadle, & shut-up!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-16 AT 06:26AM (MST)[p]Wolves are wild well designed predators and as much as we can wish for all these Dr Doolittles to tell us exactly what motives they have and what they will do next, NO ONE KNOWS.

They live under godless free will. They can kill without motive or considerations of men. In no way shape or form can any of us predict or understand any of their behavior beyond acceptance of instinct.

Accept what they are, believe what you see, don't be surprised, and manage them by lethal means.
 
A wild herd of elk not conditioned to feeding will not stand around while wolves kill 19 of them. Sorry 440, won't happen. And if you sss like ybo suggests, you are poaching, just a fact. Another fact, the wolves haven't, and won't eat all the elk. Except in the minds of the uninformed. If you guys are so worried about it, feel free to come up to Montana. You can get 5 tags. That's a lot of wolf killin. mtmuley
 
The fact remains that 19 elk were killed and wasted. They were on the feed grounds. So???? That's like saying a woman was assaulted because she was alone and out late at night so she has to take some of the blame. Yeah, I guess.

So, they aerial gunned a few? That's real humane....not. Wolf lovers have no idea how cruel they are.

We're not living in the year 1805 any more. Those days are gone forever and we can't bring them back. I wish we could.
 
Whether those elk were on the feed grounds or on the mountain these wolves know how to hunt. They know how to kill. This is a problem in all parts of wolf country. Still considered wild elk. Elk in the park seem like tame animals. As soon as they migrate across the border which the elk know the park lines a switch flips and they act just as wild as other elk
 
Somebody let BuzzH know!

He Ain't gonna be Happy about 5 More Wolves Gunned Down with Copters!

Anybody know if any of them were Shot in the Back?:D

It's a CRUEL World out there & You're not gonna Satisfy everybody/All the Special Intrest Groups so why should we even Try?

Them Wolves don't/won't last long in TARDville & that's exactly what I've told the Wolf Lovers to their Faces!

Don't know a TARD in the State that wouldn't Throw Lead at a Big Coyote when they see one!

Well,I Know one MM'er that would rather take a Picture than take a Shot at one,but only one!

Bring em to TARDville!

I want one for the Wall!













[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
We can't have the elk numbers in areas like Jackson without feeding them. and we can't keep those numbers with wolves mass killing them. if they're " wild " or not on the feed grounds doesn't matter because they seem wild enough in hunting season. that's what matters to most of us.

The wolves do SERIOUS damage to the elk herds and they do even more damage to the moose . if you don't believe it put on your Birkenstocks and jump in your Subaru and take a ride up the Gros Ventre and see for yourself muley.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
There used to be Moose in there dude!

There used to not be any Wolves in there as well!

Last Spring I talked to a Local up there That had only seen one Moose all Winter/Spring,A Cow without a Calf!











[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
> There used to be Moose
>in there dude!
>
>There used to not be any
>Wolves in there as well!
>
>
>Last Spring I talked to a
>Local up there That had
>only seen one Moose all
>Winter/Spring,A Cow without a Calf!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the
>Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
>[/font]
>
>

Watch your mouth elkassassin. According to buzz all those moose died from some worm. Its not the fact they brought in wolves that came from an area where their main diet was moose
 
>You guys are good for a
>laugh anyway. Specially 440. mtmuley
>

PM Back at Ya mt!










[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
The wolves are the best tool the anti-hunters ever could have found to use against us. The only thing worse than that are hunters who bend over for it willingly.


The wolves are here to stay that's a fact. but we all have to fight them every step of the way if we hope to preserve any sport hunting whatsoever in the west.










Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
440, take off the tinfoil and do some research. Wolves are here to stay. They did not kill all the elk. I spent more time hunting wolves this last season than I did hunting elk. And I killed a six point bull right in the middle of wolf country. Guys that spread all the stupid misinformation on the web are worse than the wolves themselves. All you guys worked up over this surplus kill know less about elk than you do about wolves. mtmuley
 
Mtmuley, for gawds sake has it been awhile since you got some tail? Your pretty sensitive about this issue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-16 AT 07:50PM (MST)[p]

You were asked a question so therefore you are supposed to answer it. That's how the English language works. You don't answer a question with a question.This "?" After a sentence means it's a question.Am I to assume what you are getting at?<----
 
Ok grosventure, elk herds where? What state? What area? Pretty broad question. YBO, not sensitive, just realistic. mtmuley
 
Since the article addresses the area where I hunt let's start there. State of wyoming in and around the Gros Ventre/ Bondurant area.
 
I'm new to the forum here on monster mulies but I thought this would be a great one to start with, I fed elk oh about 9-10 years ago in the gros ventre, and I was able to see first hand the destruction of what wolves can do. let me just start with that it is corrupt from the beginning meaning that a lot of the time where these stories come from are bs from the start, like when we would wake up to elk laying on the feed ground with the azz end eatin out the elk laying there suffering, or the worst ones where the wolves had ripped the back of there legs off and the elk were pulling themselves around with there front legs, and then were just left for dead. it was the most sickening feeling to see that. and then you would get the people we called the "wolf people" come in and tell us that they died of natural causes or that they had a disease from being on the the feedground. ya the disease they had were wolves. they would totally go against the facts the they were killed by wolves and wright down in there book that disease is taking over the elk in the gros ventre. it was so misconscrewed, dont get me wrong there is diseases some died naturally. one example we had been watching this one bull for a week or two he and a couple of other bull only came in to the feed ground every couple days he was an awesome six point we were guessing around 360 or a 370 bull well one morning we came out started our sleds and were headed to the lower feedlot and when we get there, their was not one elk in sight, we knew something was up so we started riding around and came upon a dead calf and wolf tracks, normally when there was wolves around the elk would all be standing in a big group, not this time. as we are standing there we start hearing wolf howls up in the pines. so I grabbed the binos and I counted 5-6 dead elk and one was the 6 point bull that we had been watching. it was a bad sight it looked like it was quite a fight he put up there was blood and hair scattered for what seemed like a mile. but he put up a good fight that old boy. but in the end the wolves won. now I always heard that wolves only attack the weak or the sick. so explain to me why this very healthy bull was dead not eaten just ripped to shreds, along with the other 5 dead cows that were also not eaten. makes no sense, and if you think that the elk are better off not in big herds they die just as easy in a herd of 10 as they do in a heard of 500. and killing three out of a herd of 10 is a lot worse than 19 out of 500 surplus killing happens all the time, just because it was 19 this time it made the headlines. but what about the small herds getting killed everyday that don't make the paper. sorry for the long post hopefully it makes sense. I am from Idaho haha and my typing skills are not the best.
 
Mtmuley the wolf expert killed an elk where there are wolves. therefore wolves are good for elk. in any case they don't effect the elk. case closed shut up and go home.



I've seen the destruction on the Gros Ventre grounds with my own eyes for years myself. long enough to tell mtmuley he's full of crap as well. the wolves take what they want. end of story.

Idahoforkhorn , did you feed with Jay or was that before he was up there?















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
that name does not ring a bell he must have been after I was up there but not sure, I fed at the patrol cabin where we stayed and the lower I think was alkali and the upper feed ground was fish creek I could be wrong, ill tell you though I wish you could take the pro wolf people up and let them watch what they will do to an elk it is unreal, also don't leave any dogs out side they wont last one min. we had wolves on the cabin porch trying to get my dog inside more than once, also something kind of interesting, we could always tell when the wolves were around because we would find dead coyotes everywhere, they would kill any coyote in sight before they started chasing elk. I got to witness a couple of wolves kill a coyote once it took them about 30 sec. to catch and kill it, and people say they don't kill for fun.
 
Wolves will not kill all the elk...but they will kill all the elk used by hunters to justify an elk hunting season. Like dude said....the plan was and is ingenius....and will end sport hunting as a management tool in time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-16 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]Yeah I think he's been doing it for about 6 years but I'm not sure. there weren't any elk at the cabin feed grounds this year the wolves were hitting them too hard. Alkali had about 700 and Fish Creek had about 400. less than most years. and I don't know how many bone piles that used to be elk. we saw a few more moose up Fish Creek this year actually, but no calves. there used to be lots of moose in there.

I'd like them to see the wolves kill elk too maybe they'd get the real picture of what it's all about . it's too bad wolves kill elk so easy, if they got hungry maybe they'd develop a taste for wolf lover hippies .













Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
I guess I'm not going to get a reply, but I really didn't need one, I know what they have done to the elk and moose in the Gros Ventre.
 
Notice that they are now calling it 'surplus kill' instead of 'thrill, sport, frenzy" killing now. Politically correctness in the fish & wildlife dept. Also notice wolves "generally" don't do "surplus killing" ...... so WTF does that mean? They only do it once a month, once a year? They do it every chance they get. Obviously they don't corner that many Elk at once every day or have the conditions to do so or have enough pack members to get that scale of killing done. They will kill 'surplus' animals every chance they get. Most times the number is way less but still they are 'surplus' killing. Apparently the Fish & Wildlife dept doesn't consider 3 elk killed and only 1 eaten or all partially eaten, 'surplus' killings'. No matter what, this Elk herd has suffered a HUGE loss. This how our Elk & Deer tag dollars are spent.

Ok, off my high horse. see ya


Happy new year and may 2016 be full of health, prosperity and limited entry tags!
 
>Must have been one Hell of
>a big pack to run
>19 elk up and down
>a mountain to kill them.
>mtmuley

I suspect the elk (calves) were caught and/or chased into deep snow or a fence? or ???? some place with a very limited escape. I doubt very much it was in open country.


Happy new year and may 2016 be full of health, prosperity and limited entry tags!
 
>Don't know a TARD in the
>State that wouldn't Throw Lead
>at a Big Coyote when
>they see one!


That's the next thing you're gonna lose ..... Lead
It's on the agenda is several western states now, already a done deal is some.

Happy new year and may 2016 be full of health, prosperity and limited entry tags!
 
Sportsmen can make a difference. The Idaho Panhandle was being destroyed by wolves. We were losing both elk and moose at alarming rates, tag numbers have been reduced, and numbers still plummet in all of the remote areas that wolves called home.

Elk hunters started trapping wolves, most of us had never trapped anything before. It was very time consuming, and very expensive, so others contributed in order to help. Many people wanted to help once they saw some success those that could not trap helped in other ways, such as financial help, snowmobile maintenance, calling in track sightings any thing they could do to help.

Every year we have been able to trap more than the last, and every year the Panhandle Region traps more wolves than the entire rest of the State combined.

This small group of Sportsmen is now over 800 members, and is called the Foundation for Wildlife Management f4wm.org .
We use $35 membership fees to reimburse wolf trappers, and hunters who harvest after the general rifle season up to $500. The funds we payout keeps these guys in the woods, some of six of our best have taken over 20 wolves each. any one taking five or more wolves a year has several thousand in expenses, we make it hard for them to quit.

Recently RMEF gave F4WM a $25,000 grant, check out the RMEF website. IDFG Commission has said they consider F4WM a full partner in predator management.

If you are frustrated, Angry, quit arguing with the likes of buzz, Join F4WM, re commit to RMEF, and let them know you approve of them spending money killing/managing wolves as needed.

You want to join an Organization that will spend over $100,000 effectively using sportsmen to manage wolves join the battle, F4WM.ORG .

The numbers say it all here is IDFG wolf harvest data, check out the Panhandle numbers.

Sorry not ready for Montana, and Wyoming yet, but it is being talked about as a near future goal.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-16 AT 06:17PM (MST)[p]Sounds like a good organization..Sucks we can't legally hunt/trap wolves in wyoming. And I don't see us wolf hunting anytime in the near future. The way it's going we may be hunting grizzlies before wolves. Pretty shameful...but hey the wolves aren't that bad for our elk herds just ask MIA, aka mtmuley.
 
Cant forget about the Gardner elk herd that that went from 19 thousand down to what ? Isnt it down to 4500 or less. Been awhile since I have seen updated numbers.

or all the several general elk areas are now down to 50 tags. All cause of wolf numbers..

frustrates me when even hunters cant see this... and us hunters here do what them gone but we hunters met halfway and just want population control..

Cracks me up when a non resident says there is no problem when most never been in this area to see the true damage.

or wolf lovers wanting to get the wolf rockstar back to bury her in the park. But yet cant grasp the concept of moose almost gone in some areas and seeing 19 dead elk and a hunter saying ohh no issue..
 
brother in law lifetime resident of montana 66 years saw 33 elk that were killed in rubies 2 were eat on rest left.they saw them one night were going to hunt a bull there next day. found them all next day dead. he has hunted the rubies his whole life.yes wolves do kill large numbers of wild elk.
 
Keep in mind that these elk were cows and calves. The cows that did not have calves were most likely pregnant with calves. The calves had no chance, the cows didn't want to leave their calves to die and probably died fighting. The pregnant cows were probably pretty slow to get away since all their energy flows to the calf. It's easy to understand how a bunch of wolves could kill "Wild" elk in this situation.

These wolves know exactly what they are doing. Elk are much easier to kill when they are concentrated together. Makes no difference if they are "Wild" or not.
 
that is what the problem with wolves is, if given the chance they kill anything they can. yes the elk have a better chance of getting away when there is no snow and they are not getting ready to calve, but in the winter when they are on a feed ground or on a south facing slope that has no snow as soon as they are pushed of the face into the snow they have no chance they are ran back and forth in the snow until they are to tired and just give or they are brought down. a wolf given the chance they will kill everything they can whether they need it or not.

so a couple questions for whoever wants to answer, let say the elk in Wyoming did not have feed grounds to go to, they lived lets say like the elk in Idaho. do you think that they (wolves) will not "surplus kill"? or that the wolves can not kill the wild (not feedground elk) just as easy in the winter when there is snow? and last question is killing 2 elk out of a herd of 10 not surplus killing? especially if they do not eat what they kill?

all I can go off of is what I have seen in person, I have not studied wolves, nor do I usually believe what people say that do study them because they have a way of only giving out certain information that makes wolves look better.
 
Well DEER!

You've Really Stirred it up this time!











[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
I seen first hand this year the effect wolves have on elk and others such as moose. In an area we used to see tons of elk in the past was almost void of them this year and while my kid and his buddy were in there scouting they seen quite a few wolves. They would send me pics of how scouting was going. I got a pic of a wolf and noticed it had something hanging out its mouth. It was a whole moose leg and they said he packed that thing around for long distance. It's time to manage them and grizz just like everything else.
 
Not counting on them getting a season on wolves back anytime soon but when they do I know were in heading!!! With a loaded gun!!!
 

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