Deseret Cow Elk Notice

[Ticks N Tines]

If you plan to apply for a cow elk tag this year on Deseret CWMU, please be aware of the following changes.

The following is a PSA from DL&L and WCO regarding cow elk hunting for public draw hunters on the Deseret CWMU for 2014 and beyond.

In the past DLL has tried to assist/guided cow elk hunters to help them be as successful as they can in harvesting cow elk. However, due to public concerns and complaints on the methods employed by DLL to harvest these animals, DLL will no longer be guiding or assisting public cow elk hunters free of charge. Cow elk hunters can choose to hire a guide or go at it on their own and have a do it yourself type of (DYI) experience (see options below). PLEASE NOTE, in the past, guided hunters have been nearly 100% successful in taking a cow elk on DLL, we anticipate non-guided hunters to be less than 50% successful in their harvest efforts.

Non-guided cow elk hunting:

Non-guided hunts will be difficult, likely involve strenuous hiking, and packing out of a cow. THIS IS NOT A HUNT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT OF SHAPE AND HOPE TO KILL AN ANIMAL FROM THEIR VEHICLE. NO ATVs, HORSES or other vehicles will be allowed to assist in the hunting/taking of the cow elk. NO ATVs, HORSES, or other vehicles will be allowed off road by public hunters to retrieve animals. You are allowed to bring one guest with you or party/group applicants to assist you in your hunt.
As a non-guided cow elk hunter, you will be assigned one of the following 2 day blocks. We ask that you pick your top 3 choices. We will be allowing 20-25 hunters per block to hunt their cow elk. The dates will be selected on a first come first serve basis. There will be 5 date choices, and each hunter will be able to select their top 3 choices the choices are listed below:
-November 14th?15th
-November 17th?18th
-November 21st?22nd
-November 24th?25th
-November 28th?29th

Guided cow elk hunting:

These are 2/1 guided hunts and the price does not include meals during the day or lodging at night. No meals or lodging are provided by the ranch for cow elk hunters. Cow elk hunters will ride with the guide in their (the guides) vehicle while on the ranch. The guide will accompany the hunter(s) at all times while they attempt to harvest the elk. The guide will be responsible to find the elk, field dress the elk, pack out, and transport the elk back to the hunters vehicles. NO GUEST are allowed on these guided hunts unless the hunter(s) are youth, female, and/or handicapped hunters.

If you draw and would like a guided cow hunt please call. PLEASE NOTE, If you wound/hit an animal on your first day it will be determined by the outfitter if you can come back a second day to track your animal. The guided trip DOES NOT guarantee a harvested animal.


If you have any further questions, you are welcome to contact the operator listed in the antlerless proclamation

 

[31incher]

>If you plan to apply for
>a cow elk tag this
>year on Deseret CWMU, please
>be aware of the following
>changes.
>
>The following is a PSA from
>DL&L and WCO regarding cow
>elk hunting for public draw
>hunters on the Deseret CWMU
>for 2014 and beyond.
>
>In the past DLL has tried
>to assist/guided cow elk hunters
>to help them be as
>successful as they can in
>harvesting cow elk. However,
>due to public concerns and
>complaints on the methods employed
>by DLL to harvest these
>animals, DLL will no longer
>be guiding or assisting public
>cow elk hunters free of
>charge. Cow elk hunters
>can choose to hire a
>guide or go at it
>on their own and have
>a do it yourself type
>of (DYI) experience (see options
>below). PLEASE NOTE, in
>the past, guided hunters have
>been nearly 100% successful in
>taking a cow elk on
>DLL, we anticipate non-guided hunters
>to be less than 50%
>successful in their harvest efforts.
>
>
>Non-guided cow elk hunting:
>
>Non-guided hunts will be difficult, likely
>involve strenuous hiking, and packing
>out of a cow.
>THIS IS NOT A HUNT
>FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT
>OF SHAPE AND HOPE TO
>KILL AN ANIMAL FROM THEIR
>VEHICLE. NO ATVs, HORSES
>or other vehicles will be
>allowed to assist in the
>hunting/taking of the cow elk.
> NO ATVs, HORSES, or
>other vehicles will be allowed
>off road by public hunters
>to retrieve animals. You
>are allowed to bring one
>guest with you or party/group
>applicants to assist you in
>your hunt.
>As a non-guided cow elk hunter,
>you will be assigned one
>of the following 2 day
>blocks. We ask that
>you pick your top 3
>choices. We will be
>allowing 20-25 hunters per block
>to hunt their cow elk.
> The dates will be
>selected on a first come
>first serve basis. There will
>be 5 date choices, and
>each hunter will be able
>to select their top 3
>choices the choices are listed
>below:
>-November 14th?15th
>-November 17th?18th
>-November 21st?22nd
>-November 24th?25th
>-November 28th?29th
>
>Guided cow elk hunting:
>
>These are 2/1 guided hunts and
>the price does not include
>meals during the day or
>lodging at night. No
>meals or lodging are provided
>by the ranch for cow
>elk hunters. Cow elk
>hunters will ride with the
>guide in their (the guides)
>vehicle while on the ranch.
>The guide will accompany the
>hunter(s) at all times while
>they attempt to harvest the
>elk. The guide will be
>responsible to find the elk,
>field dress the elk, pack
>out, and transport the elk
>back to the hunters vehicles.
> NO GUEST are
>allowed on these guided hunts
>unless the hunter(s) are youth,
>female, and/or handicapped hunters.
>
>If you draw and would like
>a guided cow hunt please
>call. PLEASE NOTE,
>If you wound/hit an animal
>on your first day it
>will be determined by the
>outfitter if you can come
>back a second day to
>track your animal. The guided
>trip DOES NOT guarantee a
>harvested animal.
>
>
>If you have any further questions,
>you are welcome to contact
>the operator listed in the
>antlerless proclamation


I can't imagine why hunters would have a problem with guides chasing the elk with vehicles, herding them in front of the hunters in a foot of snow.

 

[sniper14]

I did this hunt when I was a youth. I can't imagine the success being only 50%. We saw elk all over. The biggest problem was trying to shoot a cow without a bull getting in the way. We road hunted ,shot a cow within 20 minutes, and had it loaded in the truck and on our way in about 40 minutes total. Short hunt!

 

[deerslayer88]

After a notice I like maybe we should ask the state legislature to ban Deseret from the CWMU program. I was thinking hey they are stand up guys now they sound like A holes! I hate to say this but maybe everyone in the other thread was right!

 

[31incher]

>After a notice I like maybe
>we should ask the state
>legislature to ban Deseret from
>the CWMU program. I was
>thinking hey they are stand
>up guys now they sound
>like A holes! I hate
>to say this but maybe
>everyone in the other thread
>was right!


What other thread? My buddy had a tag last year and said it was a complete joke. They literally bajaed across the sage brush flats chasing these elk for miles tell the literally herded the elk within a hundred yards of him and the other hunters. He said the elk where so tired of running in the snow that they basically just stood there to tired to move. Then everyone oopened fire, tipping over about 10 cows. He said the rest of the elk still just stood there. Pretty disgraceful operation from what I gather. After tagging an elk that he wasn't even sure he hit or even shot at he went home saying he'll never participate in a hunt like that again.

 

[one_dryboot]

November dates huh? Put the public hunters in December and January and success is around 100% oh wait that would interfere with the paid hunters....

 

[muzz]

Deseret does what they want and they get away with it. I have seen there guides in action cut fences down to get on neighboring properties to run the cow elk back to there firing line. We said something to them but they could care less and went about there round up.

I know deseret has its pluses but I have seen a lot of flakey sh^t from them people.

O--one
B--big
A--ass
M--mistake
A--america

 

[257Tony]

How many if you guys have actually hunted on Deseret? Not second hand BS, but actual hunting experience? Just curious???

 

[31incher]

>How many if you guys have
>actually hunted on Deseret? Not
>second hand BS, but actual
>hunting experience?

I haven't personally hunted it. I actually used to put in for the doe antelope tag until my buddy told me his experience. Do I personally have to be on the firing line in order to believe one of my best friends story about deseret?

 

[deerslayer88]

31 it was last fall they were talking about taking care of the draw hunters. Then they post this crap pretty much telling the state hunters you get this and only this and no guide. Not trying to ruffle feathers and get into the herding accusations (never seen it so can't comment there), but geeze you tell me last year you work with the state hunters then you tell us to grab our ankles. That is the point I am getting at why the hell tell us one then then tell us FU a month later.

 

[Deerlove]

Took my son on a cow hunt when he was about 12. I warned him before the hunt thats NOT how were going to hunt on future hunts. We bounced around a truck for a while learned a lot of new four letter words and killed a cow after we ran the elk down. Thats my first and last trip up there.

 

[31incher]

>Took my son on a cow
>hunt when he was about
>12. I warned him
>before the hunt thats NOT
>how were going to
>hunt on future hunts.
>We bounced around a truck
>for a while learned a
>lot of new four letter
>words and killed a cow
>after we ran the elk
>down. Thats my first
>and last trip up there.
>


Lmao! How are they even a cwmu anymore? What a joke!

 

[Bullseye]

Can non Res apply for that cwmu unit?

 

[YELUM]

My son was 15 when he drew the tag. The guide drove us to the area, we spotted a cow and 2 calves. He said shoot the cow, which my son complied. The calves stood there until another hunter shot one. Our guide took care of the elk, they skinned it at camp, and we headed back home. They treated us good I thought. 1st female critter I've ever hunted, and didn't care to ever do it again.

Yelum

Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.

 

[deerslayer88]

Bullseye yeah if you become a res.

 

[Vanilla]

I have hunted Deseret for cow elk twice, personally. Once in '99 and again last year. My experiences were very different each time. The one in '99 felt more like hunting to me, but last year was incredibly rewarding because my 6 year old daughter got to come along and it made any sacrifice for me in how I would have hunted worth it. From reading this notice it appears I won't get to do that again with my younger kids when they grow up. All because a bunch of whiners that don't put in for the hunt anyway. The hunt isn't for everyone. But it works great for some people.

Two thoughts on this:

1-You can still get a guide as public draw tag holder. That hasn't been taken away according to this info. They've only taken away the 'hosted option' it appears. Which is too bad, if you ask me.

2- People can't have it both ways. Deseret is one of the VERY few CWMU deals out there that actually take care of the public draw hunter. Between bull and cow elk tags my family has had 5 tags I believe. They bent over backwards every time for us. Each time the hunter was a public draw tag holder. But due to complaints, they go change the policy so there is really a "DIY" option like people have asked for and then the same people complain again. Some people talk out both sides of their mouth. Just sayin...

 

[elkun]

is that the ten % tags,, wow what a great deal they are giving you ,these cwmus just keep getting better.

 

[deerslayer88]

I think the hosted option should stay and the winers should move to Cali like the rest of the fruits. This hunt option would have been a great choice for my 8 year old this year, or my 14 year old step son. The step son has never hunted and finally wants to come along and he always wanted to get a elk. I was thinking heck lets go with this hunt and get him a guaranteed kill to get him into it.

 

[BillyBoB]

LAST EDITED ON May-26-14 AT 01:52PM (MST)[p]Hey 257Tony!
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a DOG GAM DUCK!
IF 9 out 10 people that I talk to about their experiences tell me it's a circus, then it's a circus.
I don't have to hunt that unit to know what the heck is going on!
It's a damn circus with those public tags and the way they guide them hunts is about as unethical as I could think of. It isn't fair chase. For that shizz to be allowed to take place is something else.

There isn't much more that drives me nuts than to sit and watch critters get chasedby vehicle or snowmobile when there is 3+ feet of snow on the ground. I've seen it happen other places and it pisses me off.

For all those that like the fact that it is a quick and easy hunt, go ahead and bash all you want on me for having my opinion. It still doesn't make it fair chase no matter which way you cut it.

For any CWMU unit operator that thinks they can make up any rule they want, needs to be eliminated from the program. PERIOD!

Tell them to keep their public tags and have fun with your ten days of hunting!





Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."

 

[31incher]

Personally i think if you have to teach your kids how to hunt by chasing game in a truck tell they can barely run anymore says alot about ones parenting skills. WHat happened to take your kids out the old fashion way? What happened to teaching your kids its okay not to take something home with you! Its hunting! NOT killing! To think its okay to chase elk from a pick up in any circumstance its absolutely ridiculous! Stop justifying it! Its wrong everyday, all day long! I dont care if yours kids are with you or the ghost of your great grandpa that wants to hunt one last time its still wrong! Its not whining, its common sense! Quit looking for the easier, softer way of hunting.

 

[257Tony]

I think the problem is that people go into this thinking it's a hunt, when in reality it's a cull. Big difference between the two. If you want an old fashioned diy hunt, don't apply for this type of tag. I've never hunted cow elk there, but I have hunted the property before as a public tag holder, and had a great hunt!

I've also heard just about every type of story you can think of regarding various cwmu units, from the extremely positive all the way to this type of stuff.

Can someone tell me if the Deseret guys are breaking any laws doing this? If so then they should be punished for it.

I love how you guys like to put words into people's mouths just for asking a question...

 

[BillyBoB]

Tony,
Whether it's a hunt or a crap shoot, it doesn't matter. I have great respect for hunters who convey a deep respect for the animal(s) that they hunt and a degree of solemness for what takes place during their hunt. Fair chase laws exist because it's called hunting.

This deseret hunt before these changes, was not a good way to teach our younger generation of hunters what hunting is all about. It just amplified the idea of entitlement and teaches them impatience, ignorance, disrespect. It goes against what they teach in our hunting education programs.

Sure it's great to put meat in the freezer. But at what cost are you willing to do so? To get our young kids interested in hunting by taking them on this hunt, is not going to show them a normal hunting experience. It paints a different picture than really what hunting is. In the long run, it won't help teach our younger generation, the characteristics that is needed to be successful in the field. I think it would only set them up for disappointment with future hunts. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective of what some true hunters might think or feel about the entire situation.

I have heard from two different past deseret hunters who have both mentioned the fact that they were suprised that nobody had or has gotten hurt because of some of the decision making during their hunts.

I guess to each their own....


Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."

 

[257Tony]

Right, and I agree with you that it's not a hunt, certainly not one I would want to take part in. Still curious if it's against the law, or just ethics?

 

[31incher]

>Right, and I agree with you
>that it's not a hunt,
>certainly not one I would
>want to take part in.
>Still curious if it's against
>the law, or just ethics?

Both! Look at page 40 on the field regs proc.

 

[Gator]

Big Deal breaker is the outfitter decides if you wound a cow if you get to come back the next day to track it down. How stupid is that.
WHY wouldn't you want that to happen.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[Blanding_Boy]

All--

I asked Matt to post the original post/PSA from DLL as a courtesy to let as many folks know as possible that we are changing the way we have done things in the past on the ranch. We've made quite a few changes the past few years in the hunting program and we will continue to make more. This one in particular I could see need to be changed day one, not sure of an easy button to harvest 200+ cow elk but I felt the way we were doing it needed to be changed. With this particular change, I felt was important to get the word out to as many folks as possible so that they could make an educated decision whether or not they wanted to apply based on these changes.

I've certainly enjoyed reading some of the comments, some have been very positive and I thank you for them. Others have not and I certainly understand that hunting DLL is not and may not be for everyone. It has been interesting to read some folks comments, see how rumors get started etc. I hope to dispel a few myths with this post.

1--we did not ask for a bunch more permits and then were denied by UDWR. In fact we asked for about a 20% reduction in cow permits this year. This is primarily due to our harvest percentages the past few years and the number of cows we have been harvesting but also due to reduced pregnancy rates we have had the past 2-3 years.

2--Rules on UDWR page are those developed by DLL, they can and do change. These rules are not UDWR/Wildlife Board approved rules and are not needed to have a COR for a CWMU. They are simply there as a courtesy to those who are applying to let them know what the rules are. We all know rules change, we have changed one when it comes to public elk hunters. We are no longer requiring them to qualify in their shooting abilities and we are no longer requiring them to be guided, people still have the choice to be guided BUT we will no longer be offending that free of charge. We are offering precisly what RULE states we have to offer to the public, no more no less. In the past we certainly offered more and we felt that the negative comments, phone calls, negative press on this and other public forms and discussion with UDWR law enforcement that it was no longer in our best interest to offer these extras for free. Therefore, you all have choices, apply don't apply, if you draw go guided or DYI, lots of choices trying to accommodate everyone.

3--All of Deseret will still be open to hunting, in the past we have closed down certain 2 track roads to vehicles TO ALL HUNTING both private and public hunters. Doesn't mean you can use them to pack something out, it simply means you have to park your vehicle and walk a bit rather than drive a truck down it only to find out you can't get it back out.

4--Deseret has never allowed public hunters to bring horses, we no longer use horses to even pack out with.

Hope this helps dispel a few myths, nothing to serious just trying to adapt and change to make everyone (UDWR, public hunter) happy which we all know is nearly impossible to due.

If you have specific questions with regards to why, if you have specific questions about herd management you are welcome to email and i will do my best to answer your question. If you want to gripe or complain about the changes, the CWMU program in general, feel free to contact Scott McFarlane with UDWR.

Best

Todd
[email protected]
DLL Wildlife Manager