DHP for NM? Continued??

[kysersosay]

If you are a NM big-game hunter and have not read RabidRattleSnake?s thread Dedicated Hunter Program for NM? Check it out.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID34/897.html

I've been thinking a lot about this since Rabid started this thread. I also read the thread someone started about why he thinks the (Utah) DHP should be done away with, a lot of interesting discussion there.

The notion of a DSP is starting to grow on me. I think it could be a way to address some of the common gripes of MM members (because we are probably a pretty representative sample of the group who would likely be in a DSP), Keep NM?s draw system pure and equal for ALL of it's hunters, and provide a way for hunters to contribute to making more and better mule deer.

Many of you guys already know that I'm one of the professional ?Idiots that could screw up a wet dream?. Whether or not you share that view, Here?s a chance for everyone to play a little armchair quarterback in the game-plan phase. Let's pretend it falls to us "Dedicated NM Sportsmen" to invent how a DSP would work. I'd like to hear some ideas from you guys on it.

I think the very first thing for us to do is to recognize that a DSP in NM would be much different than the way Utah does it. For one- NM is WAY more of a "directed" management (or micromanaged) system. As an example, you can forget about the DSP allowing for someone to hunt all three hunts (Bow/Muzzy/rifle), it would require legislative changes to the laws and there are about 5 other big reasons why it would not/could not fly. There are other specifics of the Utah system that could not fly in NM - What I'm getting at is; pretend you never heard of Utah?s system- think out of the box. Let's start from scratch.


First: WHAT should the system accomplish? (can't skip to the ?how? without the ?what?) ???.Why?

1. improved opportunity for the ?Dedicated Sportsman?? (bonus points/draw odds/guaranteed tags? Are Ded Hunters guaranteed the ?benefit?, or just earn an improved chance?
2. provide ?special? opportunity for the DS? Special units, special rut hunts
3. habitat improvement projects??
4. _________________???????________________________________
5. _________________???????________________________________

For ?WHOm? should this be accomplished? Who is a dedicated sportsman?
1. exclusivity- can't be everyone? more sacrifice=less participants=larger benefit How many? How do you pick? How do you earn?
2. what sacrifice= volunteer time, habitat projects? Money$ (I'd HATE it to go to the highest bidder- money should not exclude anyone from participating- IMO)
3. __________???????????________________________________
4. __________???????????________________________________

Now- HOW do you make that happen- the what's and the who's (within NM?s current draw system, and laws)?

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What are the negative impacts going to be?? (impact to the rest of NM hunters, the resource, the sport of hunting in general-- see the article below) Does it change management objectives- would it mean more hunters/higher success ratios (fewer bucks)/fewer tags/decreased draw odds/higher prices?

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/13008.html

Personally, I'd like to see some way to make it work with our ?Open Gate? Program (the HMAS- Habitat Management and Access Stamp money for leasing private land hunting opportunity.) I-don't-know how- NMDGF with lease money in hand and some bad-ass elk/deer ranches and some trusted ?dedicated? hunters willing to put in some elbow grease should be able to mix together somehow????

I'd also like to see some way to piggyback a ?Dedicated Youth? Program to direct it towards more/better youth hunting opportunity- maybe father son combos- maybe

I don't know. You tell me???

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

I agree that we could not have the same system as Utah, but it would be nice to have a program where we hunters give our time and a little extra money, but we get some extras. Could be as simple as added days to the regular season dates for DH hunters. Maybe let DH hunters hunt an extra 3 days before or after the regular season hunts that they drew? Or as stated above utilizing funds from the access fees for the benefit of DH hunters. Maybe allow the guys to be excused from the proposed rule where we can only put in for Q/HD hunts if we didn't draw the year before. Maybe allow these guys to put in for a pool of special tags reserved for DH hunters only. I really love the idea of parent/child hunts somehow getting into the mix. Although mine is only 20 months old I can't wait for the opportunity to hunt with him. Don?t see why DH hunters couldn't be allowed to hunt all three seasons either. Let's say you draw a unit 17 rifle permit. If you are a DH hunter you can hunt unit 17 only, but for the muzzy or bow hunts too. Only one deer, but more opportunity and maybe the same rule where you are maxed out at 2 deer for 3 years (maybe 4x4 only if you are not in your specific draw). You still have to draw a tag like everyone else, but if you are a DH hunter you can hunt more.

 

[kysersosay]

I'm not opposed to the principal of DH hunters being allowed to hunt over multiple seasons-
A- it would make for a REAL benefit for the DH without really screwing anyone else or the resource,(depending on how many DH hunters we're talking about)
B. the impact could be easily predicted and would not be additive(I.E. you could figure out and calculate the impacts on overall harvest rates and plan accordingly),
C.and in the big picture, I think it would move more (rifle)hunters to using primitive weapons, and in the long run it could mean more hunting oportunity for all.

It would actually fit well into most of the regulations. The hangup I saw was in the way NM's LAWS are written-- One license, one hunt, per year. All other regulations and rules are branches off of the wording of the LAW, and changing the law would literally require an act of (state)congress- plus all of the other regs are based on the law, so if you change the wording, you basically end up having to change the wording of ALL the regs- (back to the drawing board) In my experience- I just don't see that happening.

There might be some way around that, I mean there's something in the reg that allows the Governors tag to hunt for months, so maybe a DH tag could have hunt dates that just happen to overlap with existing hunts-

To make a long story short- I shouldn't have taken that off the table since we are trying to "think outside the box"

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Would there still be an interest if the DH hunter (who has EARNED a chance to hunt all three seasons for a certain year) is excluded from applying the following year?

Since NM is a unitized draw statewide (where every GMU is a draw) I can't see a system where the DH is gauranted to hunt every year. if that was the case, how do you decide who gets to be a DH- everyone should have equal oportunity to get in the door.

What if there were 12% (1%-20% depending on the math) of tags set aside for DH hunters, so the DH would still have to compete against other DH hunters to draw a tag. I mean, the first thing that pops into my head is how we deal with unit 2, we cant just let the DH system be an automatic 2b tag, it wont fly. But other units would likely have more DH tags available than DH applicants, so the DH hunter might be able to count on a tag SOMEWHERE if he's willing to 2nd3rdChoice one of these units.

 

[cocinaelktaco]

I hope that some type of system is put into play that includes youth. They are the future and habitat development will help them understand the full cycle that it takes for proper management to have any chance with mother nature.

An idea might be to have a fair number of High quality tags for various parts of the State including elk and deer to be drawn at a B.B.Q. dinner in January (before Filling out applications for next season) from the previous years efforts.
It must have a minimum amount of hours to qualify. The projects should be drawn from area wardens and the regional biologists for priority ranking.

Could also get donations from businesses to help with door drizes for the event and give away a few guns and hunting items. also could have some raffles to help in funding the events needs such as lunch items and soda's at the work sights.

Promoting awareness and hunting opportunities within the State of New Mexico well into the future!!!!!

Oh yea! CUT THE TAGS IN SOME UNITS SO WE WILL HAVE DEER TO BREED IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!

Unit 21 is a nightmare!

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

Along the lines of the Open Gate program a system similar to Utah's CWMU (I really hate that Utah has all these programs and we don't)might work. Details are below. I see problems with it and some benifits.
Cooperative Wildlife Management Units (CWMUs), formerly known as Posted Hunting Units, are hunt areas consisting of mostly private lands that have been authorized for the specific purpose of managing big game animals. The CWMU program is an effort to recognize the contribution made by private landowners in providing big game habitat on their private range lands. In return, a number of public hunters are allowed to hunt on these lands.

For the 1998 hunting season, more than one million acres of private land comprising 60 CWMUs will be open to public hunting for those who obtain a CWMU hunting permit. These units will offer a total of 2,346 buck deer, bull elk, buck pronghorn and bull moose permits, of which 15 percent are available through the drawing. The remaining permits are allocated to the CWMUs and may be assigned to private clientele.

Some public land is included on a few of the CWMUs for the following reasons: (a) isolated tracts of land, or (b) for better management such as definite boundary identification. When public lands have been included, the landowner/operator must provide additional hunting opportunities for the public.

Both private and public hunters generally enjoy higher success on CWMUs, with less hunting pressure. However, hunters should realize that success is not guaranteed. While hunters usually have a better opportunity to harvest a mature animal on CWMUs, most of these units are not managed for trophy quality animals. To better understand the type of animals available on the units, a hunter should contact the landowner/operator before applying for the hunt.

(a)Specific hunt dates. CWMUs must allow the public a fair opportunity to harvest an animal on private lands.
(b)A map of the CWMU showing access and areas to be hunted.
(c)The CWMU rules and regulations, including use of vehicles, hunting companions and camping opportunities.

The Division has a grievance process to handle problems that may occur. Hunters and landowner/operators should make every effort to solve the problem by working together in an effort to set up and carry out a successful hunt. If the problem cannot be solved, contact should be made with the Division's regional office where the CWMU is located, and a request for assistance should be made. Problems may include making contact with the landowner/operator, hunters abusing rules set up by the CWMU, unfair opportunities afforded the hunter by the CWMU and illegal trespass on the CWMU.

CWMUs have produced positive experiences for the majority of public hunters privileged to enter these units. The Division considers the program to be highly successful, and the public enjoys the opportunity to hunt these private lands. Big game herds are improving throughout the state, thanks in part to the private landowners and the effort they are making to provide habitat.

Because CWMUs are a business, hunters must expect a certain amount of structure.

Successful applicants should immediately contact the landowner/operator to obtain the following information:
(a)Specific hunt dates. CWMUs must allow the public a fair opportunity to harvest an animal on private lands.
(b)A map of the CWMU showing access and areas to be hunted.
(c)The CWMU rules and regulations, including use of vehicles, hunting companions and camping opportunities.

The Division has a grievance process to handle problems that may occur. Hunters and landowner/operators should make every effort to solve the problem by working together in an effort to set up and carry out a successful hunt. If the problem cannot be solved, contact should be made with the Division's regional office where the CWMU is located, and a request for assistance should be made. Problems may include making contact with the landowner/operator, hunters abusing rules set up by the CWMU, unfair opportunities afforded the hunter by the CWMU and illegal trespass on the CWMU.

CWMUs have produced positive experiences for the majority of public hunters privileged to enter these units. The Division considers the program to be highly successful, and the public enjoys the opportunity to hunt these private lands. Big game herds are improving throughout the state, thanks in part to the private landowners and the effort they are making to provide habitat.