DIY guided hunt part 2

[Paradox]

So here's the rest of the story...
I won a guided hunt (my first) with landowner voucher in Colorado unit 21 in Huntin Fool's membership raffle. Boy was I excited! We hunted with Twin Buttes Ranch owned by Scott and Owen Robertson. Owen was our guide.
Figuring I had transportation covered we flew from NY instead of driving as we have done for the last 26 years hunting the west. Mistake #1 - the "guide" was 2 1/2 hours late picking us up in Grand Junction. And, as I was to later find out, Colorado limits their guides to a "concession" that is a very small part of the unit.
Mistake #2 - Private land would more than make up for the reduced hunting area. NOT!
So off we went... day one we got up early and waited for 1 1/2 hours for the guide to show up just before daylight. I said "shouldn't we be going soon" he said "well you can't hunt til you can see them". We then spent the next 2 hours driving up and down the highway. Right! Road hunting on blacktop, CO139. Back to the lodge for lunch and a nap guide shows up at 3 and we drive the highway for 2 hours. I should have dumped him then but I figured he had a plan.
Day 2,3,4 (Yeah, I'm a slow learner) much like day 1 except we drove ranch and dirt roads, some private, mostly public. We did see a lot of almost big bucks, not something you would burn a 21 tag on though. You could hardly get this guy out of the lodge before daylight and by 10 AM he was itching to get back for lunch. Disappeared 'til 3 and we hunted 'til 5 or so, too dark to see deer. We spent a half hour each way driving through prime deer country, saw bunches of deer but they could not hunt there so couldn't even slow down to look them over.
By day 4 I had had it, I said just leave me on a ridge while you get your nap and pick me up at 3. I put that time to good use and made a bunch of calls. Rented a truck, called Scott who had seen "a lot of big bucks in other parts of the unit.
When he showed up I said i wanted to hunt the rest of the unit and he could take me back to town after the hunt.
Last day - we headed out on our own, (before daylight) and first place we look we see a NICE buck, not quite the right buck though. Scott got us back on track and we found this deer at 5 PM, one of, if not the nicest we had seen all week, including private.
There is more bad to tell but this has probably gone on long enough.
Suffice to say, I would NOT recommend a hunt with these guys.
In fact, I were to be so lucky enough to win this package again I'd go it alone and use the tag to it's fullest. I am very happy with this deer, though I am convinced if we had more time to look over more of the unit we could have found the gagger buck we all dream about.

Ed




If you ain't the lead dog,
the view never changes

 

[264mag]

What a bummer,at least you got a decent buck.You came a long way to hunt and you were not treated fairly.

 

[treedagain]

nice buck..congrads

 

[bonedaddy]

I heard they killed a 240" buck on one of their pieces of private this year. 35" wide and trash all over it. Sorry you had a bad experience. nice buck though

 

[BUL_KRZY]

I hope the Carter boys read this and partner up with a better outfitter. Who would want to send their clients out to have an experience like this. Nice job getting it done yourself. I see a lot of the truck riding "guiding" in CO. I'm sure it's successful too, but I like earning them the hard way!

 

[NickJ1980]

Some folks just have their own way of doing things--sounds like you are cut out for DIY and clearly got it done on your own.

Scott and Owen have their own way too, having been born and raised on Twin Buttes Ranch. They've killed a ton of big bucks both for themselves and for clients, mostly on public land in the area they hunted with you, but usually not in the first 4 days. It takes some serious luck to kill a trophy buck anywhere in the 1st 4 days.

As for road hunting the highway, I know for a fact some of the best deer killed during the rifle hunts in 21 are spotted from the highway. To add to that, I've personally heard biologists recommend for folks to focus their efforts along the highway during 3rd season due to migration routes. In fact, the 2nd day of 3rd season last year a 190-ish buck was hit by a truck right near the turnoff you guys took off the blacktop every day. Most mule deer outfitters I know spend more time in the trucks than on the ground during 3rd season because the deer are active and moving and you stand the best chance of finding a big buck in a unit like 21 by staying mobile and looking at new deer all the time.

Sorry you didn't get what you expected, but part of the problem is unrealistic expectations on your part. One of the most irritating things for a guide is to have a client come in and tell you how to hunt, especially when the guide has lived in the area for 50 years.

I know Scott and Owen well enough to say they are some of the hardest working folks I know and there's more to this story. Their prices are high for what you get, but I can't sit back and let you paint them as bad people because it just ain't so.

 

[need4x4]

I'm sure they are good people.

Would you take 5 hours of day light off if you had the tag?

I'd think you would at least find some place to glass, then move to another spot for most of those 5 hours. Or find some dirt roads and try to cut a track of a big buck then work backwards or forward and try to find him the next day.

Or let the guy know the program before he get's there.

So, this is not the way to treat a hunter on that basis alone.

 

[eldorado]

Your perseverance paid off with a beautiful buck.

Eldorado

 

[SoleSearcher36]

IMO if you are worth your salt as a guide and a hunter wants to hunt ALL day then you hunt ALL day.(even if it is very low odds of finding an animal during the off-prime hours). It is as simple as that. Good job adjusting and getting it done with a great buck.

 

[tailchasers]

I know the ranch, the area, & the owners.

Not what I would expect to hear about these people. These guys kill more "mack-daddy" bucks with a bow than most rifle outfitters do throughout a couple of years with a rifle during the late seasons.

As for taking the afternoon off that does sound like a little bit of BS to me. Wouldn't have sat well and I wouldn't have put up with it even if I didn't foot the bill for the trip.

Couple of things bother me though.
- "We did see a lot of almost big bucks, not something you would burn a 21 tag on though". So you were on bucks everyday that almost met your expectations. I understand setting your standards and sticking to them but did you happen to communicate this information to your outfitter and or guide?

Something else I have heard over and over and over from numerous nonresidents is the size and numbers of the bucks they are seeing. People tend to forget we are still working our way out of a devasting winter kill, not just one but 2 winter kills. Herd numbers are way down and will take years to get back into full strength. You can't expect a gagger buck behind every tree, which is what people expect. When I hear the local folks complain abotu the deer herd ya know its bad and that is exactly what I am hearing. Big bucks just ain't here like that were prior to the winter kills. So could your expectations have possibly been a bit to high knowing the present condition of the unit?

The area they hunt is known for exceptional deer hunting. Just look at the number of deer/elk camps set up in that area. Tough to find a spot to yourself so this should also be a good indicator. Not saying road hunting is the way to go but you can hardly get a 1/2 to 3/4 mile from any road in 21 without finding another road. Hense what also adds to the attraction people like about hunting 21, it is highly accessable and for the most part simple to hunt for deer. Its a lazy man's hunt with good potiential and opportunity to harvest.

You went and reacted properly and got yourself a dandy animal! Which, BTW, is better than average for this area right now. You did good and should be proud of your accomplishment.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."

 

[Buckhunter1]

Thanx for the honest report. Thats refreshing on todays internet.We won a hunt from the Hunting fool A few years back that worked out Ok. I wonder if a few pre hunt phone calls to Garth or the outfitter would have given you more of a heads up? Vehicle big game hunts suck, IMHO, and should be fore warned. BH1

 

[Paradox]

Well....
Nowhere in my post did I say Owen was "bad people", I was trying to be kind. All I said was he is a lousy/lazy guide. As for the tons of big bucks killed there, I think the biggest they ever got for themselves was a 180ish 3X4. Mounted right there in the lodge. I also looked through their trophy book and on the whole they kill pretty average bucks, with a few (maybe 3) exceptions. There was a Huge buck killed there 2nd season, probably 35" wide but no trash.
Furthermore, if any of you had a 21 tag you would be out and about sunup to sundown. In fact one other hunter killed a 179" buck on the 3rd day because he and his guide stayed out all day and sat on that buck until they got it done.
I was told they do a lot of their hunting out of trucks and I know that's how many hunt that unit, what I was not told was if I wanted to hunt more than their little piece of the rock, I would need a vehicle. I admitted that was my mistake and I should have planned accordingly. I was also told they do a lot of filming and try to get video of bucks and the hunt. Not once did I see a camera much less any video.
What really pissed me off about this guy I found out after the hunt.
When we took our stuff out of his truck to go off on our own, I mistakenly grabbed his vest and a small pack thinking it was my hunting buddies gear. We stopped back at the ranch to show off our deer and he said we had his stuff, so we returned it and apologized for the mistake. When I got back to town where we had cell reception I found a message from Owen that said "you guys were in such a hurry to pack up your sh*t and get out of here you f***ers took my stuff!" His words as recorded on my phone as though we had done it on purpose. I made several attempts to contact him so he could make it right and not once returned my call. Lucky I did not get the message til later or his stuff would be out by the side of the highway.
So yeah, I think Owen Robertson is a piece of sh*t SOB looking to make an easy buck off of us rednecks from New York.
However, my main reason for posting was to make others aware of how things work so you don't have to learn the hard way like I did.
As for me having unrealistic expectations, I have posted in another thread on how I think the unit needs another year or two to recover. Yet they killed a 200" buck earlier, Garth Carter killed a 223" monster last year. So there ARE gagger bucks there it just takes some effort to find them.

Ed

If you ain't the lead dog,
the view never changes