Do away with the RAC's and The Big Game Board

[rperkins]

Let do away with the RAC's and Board and let the DWR handle the Deer herd. Open to unlimited tags for Bucks, Anis says that bucks don't make the deer population grow, so if we kill all the bucks, the does will still have fawns and every one can hunt and camp with their family and watch the does populate the deer herd.

 

[one_dryboot]

Sad but thats how a lot of people think!

 

[Tikka]

I see wily's way of thinking is rubbing off on some folks!!!

Perkins thank for the laugh but just like boot said that's the opportunists thinkin...

I want to hunt every year no matter what the consequences are!!!!!

 

[one_dryboot]

But But But But But bucks dont have fawns. So lets give unlimited tags and hunt every last one of them down until we only have 3 bucks in utah. And make sure they are 2 points. No need to have a mature buck running around. Those 3 bucks will still breed all the does in utah and everyone will be happy.

 

[odocoileus]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-12 AT 01:20AM (MST)[p].

 

[wuffie]

come on guys, I like opportunity to hunt deer as much as the next gal does but I sure would eat my tag if I knew it would hurt the herd health. I don't know any hunters who would kill a buck if it was bad for the herd. have you guys really talked to hunters who want opportunity to go deer hunting who said they want to hunt no matter what it does to the herd?

 

[wileywapati]

Perkins you are a couple days late on this??? Where ya been??? Find Big6, 73 and the CAT and we'll have an intelligent discussion here.

HA HA








2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE

 

[2_Point]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-12 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]If people really cared about deer they would asking to shut the whole state down, including all the limited entry units. There should be no deer permits issued. Not one permit. Not even on the henry mountains. Bucks are so important that they are akin to men who should only be married and have relations with one woman. The same should be said of our deer herd with one buck per one doe. That will grow our herd by at least a 100,000 bucks. If the Fish and Game want to kill every buck as some say, then lets try to save every buck. Shut down mule deer hunting for 10 years and see how it works.

How dare those darn biologists use past studies in their analysis. How dare they issue a limited number of tags per unit. They should be recommending 0, nada, not one deer permit in the whole state.

 

[UT1031]

If people really cared about the deer, they would volunteer to help on the projects. Last weekend only about 50 showed up for the bitter brush planting project in Stockton. A big thanks to the MDF and UWC for giving of their time. LOTS and LOTS b**ch and moan, but very few actually do something. Be one of the few and HELP our HERDS!

 

[rperkins]

I do my share and then some, but the DWR don't, all about money, not about deer. Another 150 does to be killed off the Panguitch Unit, WHY ? MONEY ! Show me 11,000 deer on the Beaver ! I want to go with them and show me and so do the cattle men on the Beaver want them to show them too.

 

[wuffie]

rperkins, now is your chance to show them dirty sob's! The dwr is setting up range rides. get hold of 'em so you can go out and show them what you are seeing! It's one way to get your point across! hope you do it! good luck.

 

[sgs357max]

yea i seen how much you care about the deer herd on my post last night you dont want a bounty on coyote and fish and game is perfect in your eyes so lets kill all the deer then nobody will have anything to complain about thats what everone wants anyway

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

wuffie - I applaud your statement about eating your tag. However, I tend to disagree with you a little there. I would bet that most hunters with a deer tag and knew they were staring at the last deer on the unit would drop the hammer! They would say, "I may never see another buck again, I better shoot this one". Now that's the sad truth.

The DWR needs some supervision. And for those that are over 40 (35 for that matter, they understand why.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[comsense]

Your right Perkins. I spent a day in Salt Lake at the Board Meeting. I know what their decision was and what was voted upon. Now the decision that they made at that time, except for the unit hunting, has been veto. DWR is deciding just how many bucks to put on each unit. It wsa decided at that time to go for 25 bucks per 100 does per unit....I won't waste another day at a game board meeting...not when any decision can be change that easy. It's a waste to go to RAC Meetings as what they recommend to the Board, and when the Board does make a Decision, DWR can change it anyway they want. You have got to be joking about the doe hunt on the Panguitch Lake Area...Well I guess this is one way to get the buck/doe ratio up....

 

[wileywapati]

Comsense didn't the Board veto the statewide
Mule deer plan when Lumpy and Peayday got
In their ear???





2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE

 

[Muley_73]

Wiley,
What unit did they take the 13,000 from?

 

[TheElitehornhunter]

RPerkins you're exaggerating, No one on this forum including the DWR has never said they wanted unlimited general season deer tags. Anis made the statement that having more bucks in the herd doesn't grow deer herds. If we have 50/100 ratios our deer herds wouldn't grow faster then a ratio of 15/100 because bucks don't give birth to fawns. Fawns surviving to adulthood and producing offspring grows deer herds. Bucks are the byproduct of good fawn survival rates.

Again, Mr. RPerkins high buck number do not grow deer herds very fast and prime examples of this is the Henry Mtns, San Juan, Bookcliffs. The deer populations on these units aren't exploding.

THE REAL REASON YOU WANT MORE BUCKS IN THE HERD IS BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE BUCKS TO SHOOT. YOU COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE DEER HERDS BECAUSE YOU JUST WANT TO KILL BUCKS UNTIL THE VERY LAST ONE.

 

[TheElitehornhunter]

In fact a buck to doe ratio of 15/100 would grow a deer herd faster then a buck to doe ratio of 30-50/100 because more fawns are born with a buck to doe ratio is at 15/100

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

I once read a an account by Teddy Roosevelt about him killing a Buffalo. He went back west to kill one before they were all gone. Pretty disturbing.

I'd like to think most hunters today wouldn't do that. I gladly accepted all the new regs in the 90's. We all thought cutting tags would make the herd recover. Apparently, we are all missing something because the herd was perpetually bigger when there were over 200,000 hunters.

Everyone knows we had two hard winters with a lot of kill in winter 2009-2010; 2010-2011 wasn't much better. Everyone just dismisses and continues to ask where are all the deer going? Then the conclusion is quickly made that we need to cut buck tags and create more regions. Trophy hunters find every opportunity to turn the general hunt into a limited entry hunt. It's going very well for them.

Trophy hunters, go ahead and kick out the general hunters. You have the time, the means, and the resolve. Just remember, general hunters are largely what keeps anti hunters at bay from everyone else.

 

[soutahhunter]

I agree with Perkins and the others who go to a RAC meeting and watch them easily change the buck to doe ratio so that everyone can have a tag. Nothing is going to change until they are willing to look at the low number of deer in each unit and cut the necessary tags, but that would cost them to much revenue. Elite hunter you say more bucks do not add to the deer herd so you seem to know alot about this. Explain to me how killing 150 does helps a deer herd grow?

 

[338boy]

BUCKS DON'T MAKE FAWNS!
FAWNS MAKE BUCKS!

SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME THE dwr GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THE BUDGET!

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD THE dwr SAY "BUDGET"?

SOMEBODY TELL ME THAT 1 dwr BIOLOGIST ( all of them highly educated collage graduates , with degrees in biology , wildlife management, bla bla bla!) KNOWS WHY FAWNS AREN'T LIVING LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE IT TO THE WINTER RANGE!

35 YEARS OF THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND!

EVERYTIME A PROPOSAL IS MADE FROM THE PUBLIC, ANIUS TELLS THE RAC THAT WON'T WORK!

THE PUBLIC DOSEN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WILDLIFE!


ANIUS , PLEASE SHOW UP TO THE WILDLIFE BOARD WITH A CLEAR REASON WHY FAWNS AREN'T LIVING!
WHY AFTER 35 YEARS OF DECLINE THE dwr CAN'T TELL US WHY DEER NUMBERS REMAIN LOW!

FOR 35 LONG YEARS!!!!!!

HOW CAN THIS BE?

WHAT WERE YOUR PLANS FOR THE DEER HERD IN 1993 BEFORE SPORTSMEN MARCHED ON THE CAPITOL??

WOULD YOU SAY IT ONCE AND FOR ALL?

FURTHER MORE dwr TELL US WHAT ,
BUCK DOE RATIOS WOULD BE,
WHAT BULL COW RATIOS WOULD BE,
HOW MANY DOE/COW/ANTERLESS TAGS THERE WOULD BE,
IF THE PUBLIC WASN'T AT THE RAC's BUSTIN YOUR A$$

THE dwr HAS COMPUTER MODELED OUR DEER HEARD TO DEATH!!!!!!!!

DISTROYING THE GREATEST ELK QUALITY EVER ANYWHERE !!!!

GET RID OF THE RAC's , ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

LET A GOVERNMENT AGENCY RUN ON OUR MONEY UN CHECKED , ARE YOU KIDDING ME!

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL ACCOUNTABILITY??
A PAY CHECK WITHOUT PRODUCTIVITY AND ACCOUNTIBILITY , ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

FOR ALL THEIR SUCCESS THEY WILL ASK THE LEGESLATURE TO RAISE DEER TAG PRICES!!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!

dwr HAS RUN OFF HUNTERS !

NOBODY ELSE !!

SFW, MULE DEER FOUNDATION, RMEF, UTAH BOWMEN, UWC, YOU GONNA LET THE dwr RAISE THE PRICE OF A DEER TAG?

REALLY!

TIME FOR THE dwr TO COME CLEAN!

NO RAC's, NO WILDLIFE BOARD , ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

 

[tstewy]

Ive held off on the discussion about the buck to doe ratio for some time now and after reading a bunch of posts I will chime in.

1. Are deer herds suck on most gen units. We all know that and what the factors are. The biggest one imo is winter kill and predation. Just look at the book cliffs no habitat loss and the herd is loosing ground like crazy over the last few years.

2.As far as the health of the herd goes you can probly get away with 15-17 buck per 100 does to increase the herds and get the does bread. But we are loosing our fawns which is casusing the pops to either be stagnet or loose.

3. There have been millons of dollars spent in habitat to increase carring capacity but there have not been deer to fill them. There has been alot of hwy fencing done and still being done. Predators are the last thing that has not really been a focus until this year we will see where that leads us. so we need to stop bashing those groups for trying to do something after all we all make mistakes and unless we are willing to do something than we need not to bash those that are.

4. If we can not change the direction of our herds than we will have to start managing a rescorce that is on the decline. How we should do that i am not . I love going out and hunting every year with my family and freinds. I also love to go out and work hard and have a chance at a mature buck. Which in most years i have a chance doesnt meen i kill one but i have a chance.

5. Imo we need to do whatever it takes to get our herd back on track we all shoud be willing to do whatever it takes. I would love to see the state use these units to micro manage and see what it is going to take. Increase habitat in one, Kill a whole bunch of preds in another, Close one for two years to hunting. Have one with a 15 buck to doe and one with 18 see what works to get the pops up and than if something works do it every where. Everything needs to be on the table. Otherwise we will sit here and bash each other over oppurtunity and big buck and create alot of anamosity towards each other which we should not be doing. Fix the pop problem first and than worry about the rest later otherwise we will be a bunch of hungry dogs fighting over the scraps.

 

[why]

lets do away with ANIS the person that dosent know nothing about utah deer herd .HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED .any body else in the real world dooing tha bad job is fired. why.......

 

[ShowThemToMe]

>BUCKS DON'T MAKE FAWNS!
>FAWNS MAKE BUCKS!
>
>SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME THE dwr
>GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ANYTHING
>BUT THE BUDGET!
>
>HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD
>THE dwr SAY "BUDGET"?
>
>SOMEBODY TELL ME THAT 1 dwr
>BIOLOGIST ( all of them
>highly educated collage graduates ,
>with degrees in biology ,
>wildlife management, bla bla bla!)
>KNOWS WHY FAWNS AREN'T LIVING
>LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE IT
>TO THE WINTER RANGE!
>
>35 YEARS OF THE BLIND LEADING
>THE BLIND!
>
>EVERYTIME A PROPOSAL IS MADE FROM
>THE PUBLIC, ANIUS TELLS THE
>RAC THAT WON'T WORK!
>
>THE PUBLIC DOSEN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
>WILDLIFE!
>
>
>ANIUS , PLEASE SHOW UP TO
>THE WILDLIFE BOARD WITH A
>CLEAR REASON WHY FAWNS AREN'T
>LIVING!
> WHY AFTER 35 YEARS OF
>DECLINE THE dwr CAN'T TELL
>US WHY DEER NUMBERS REMAIN
>LOW!
>
>FOR 35 LONG YEARS!!!!!!
>
>HOW CAN THIS BE?
>
>WHAT WERE YOUR PLANS FOR THE
>DEER HERD IN 1993 BEFORE
>SPORTSMEN MARCHED ON THE CAPITOL??
>
>
>WOULD YOU SAY IT ONCE AND
>FOR ALL?
>
>FURTHER MORE dwr TELL US WHAT
>,
>BUCK DOE RATIOS WOULD BE,
>WHAT BULL COW RATIOS WOULD BE,
>
>HOW MANY DOE/COW/ANTERLESS TAGS THERE WOULD
>BE,
>IF THE PUBLIC WASN'T AT THE
>RAC's BUSTIN YOUR A$$
>
>THE dwr HAS COMPUTER MODELED OUR
>DEER HEARD TO DEATH!!!!!!!!
>
>DISTROYING THE GREATEST ELK QUALITY EVER
>ANYWHERE !!!!
>
>GET RID OF THE RAC's ,
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
>
>LET A GOVERNMENT AGENCY RUN ON
>OUR MONEY UN CHECKED ,
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
>
>HOW ABOUT SOME REAL ACCOUNTABILITY??
>A PAY CHECK WITHOUT PRODUCTIVITY AND
>ACCOUNTIBILITY , ARE YOU KIDDING
>ME?
>
>FOR ALL THEIR SUCCESS THEY WILL
>ASK THE LEGESLATURE TO RAISE
>DEER TAG PRICES!!
>
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
>
>dwr HAS RUN OFF HUNTERS !
>
>
>NOBODY ELSE !!
>
>SFW, MULE DEER FOUNDATION, RMEF, UTAH
>BOWMEN, UWC, YOU GONNA LET
>THE dwr RAISE THE PRICE
>OF A DEER TAG?
>
>REALLY!
>
>TIME FOR THE dwr TO COME
>CLEAN!
>
>NO RAC's, NO WILDLIFE BOARD ,
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

I like it 338BOY!

CAPS & All!

Just like it should be!



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home

 

[Birdman]

I really do not know that much about buck to doe ratio but think of it this way. A doe comes in heat starting in November. If she does not get bred she comes again in December and then if she does not catch again in January. With 190 to 200 gestation period those that are bred later have fawns that are smaller when it comes to the fall and winter. In fact some fawns are born as late as August. Now are those fawns as likely to survive the winter. Preditors can kill easier. It is true that the does are getting bred but could it be that it could take three months before a buck can get to her? With a hard winter the younger the fawn the harder it is going to be to survive. I really think that the preditors are the biggest problem. Just a thought.

 

[338boy]

ANIUS SAY'S PREDATORS ARE NOT IMPACTING OUR DEER!

IT'S A BIG SECRET WHAT IS!

ONLY THE dwr MANAGERS KNOW ANYTHING!

PUBLIC INPUT AT THE rac'S IS SMOKE AND MIRRORS!

LAY PEOPLE WHO SAW 700,000 DEER IN UTAH ARE OFF THEIR ROCKERS!

THEY DON'T HAVE A DEGREE!

I BELIVE THE dwr, WINK WINK !!