Evidence of a lion kill ?

[COBUK]

I would like to ask you guys experience regarding lion killed deer. I am assuming that mountain lions kill deer ( or elk ) by clamping down on the deer's throat and choking them to death by collapsing the windpipe with their jaws. I am assuming that if you caped out a fresh lion kill you would find puncture marks underneath the deer's jaw where the lion shut off the air to the deer. I recently caped out a buck that was presumed to have been killed by a lion and in this particular case that is what I found ( canine punctures marks below the jaw ).

Have any of you examined deer that have been killed by coyotes ? I'm assuming that the dog family kill deer by tearing the jugular and carotid arteries in the neck as opposed to the cat family that chokes their prey to death.

Are my assumptions correct ?

Thanks,
COBUK

 

[southslope82]

I was always under the impression that lions killed like the way you are talking about choking, Another way, I also thought that you could find teeth marks just behind the skull where the spine begins, at the first several vertabries, The force of the bite could damage resulting in paralyzing the animal or causing serious nervous system damage and that it indicated a lion kill if you found it fresh enough to look at the intial bite marks before the coyotes and things had knawed it all up yet. Ryan Hatch actually talks about this very thing in one of his videos.

 

[nickman]

Lions and coyotes do not require that an animal be dead prior to beginning to feed on it. As long as the prey is totally disabled, feeding can begin.

Ask the girl that was killed some years back, while riding her bike in So.Ca. Coroner determined that she bled to death. I saw the DFG photos and it is hard to believe the ammount of blood. It was clear that the cat began eating prior to the heart stopping. She was certainly unconcious, but.......

In the case of cats versus deer, the neck is pretty much the only area where a jaw grip can cause suffocation or sufficient blood loss.

We have several instances each year, where coyotes will begin eating a new calf, dead or not. Mostly why I hate them so much.

As far as determining a lion kill site, as opposed to something else, it can be tough, at least in the area where I live. There are just too many other predators messing the area up. I have seen a mature 4x4, wounded and tracked until dark, completely devoured between sunset and sunrise the next morning.

Lions eat the insides (entering thru the rectal opening) and the hams at first and seldom do much damage to the front half of large animals.

Usually coyotes will begin eating either end with equal zest. I cannot imagine what is so tasty about a newborn calf's nose and face. Having to shoot a 2 hour old calf because a 'yote took his face off, is simply disgusting.

When a lion is finished feeding, it makes a casual effort to cover the kill. Biologists are not sure of the reasons behind this, as a lion will seldom return to a kill for a second meal, unless food supplies are scarce.

As soon as it leaves, everything else in the scavenger world, will show up and pretty much make a mess of the entire site.

 

[RELH]

About 12 years ago I observed a large mountain lion attack and kill a blacktail doe. The lion grabbed the doe by the front neck just below the jaw and held on until the doe died.
Then the lion dragged it uphill about 30 feet behind a fallen tree and started feeding.

RELH

 

[CATMAN]

Lions will kill by suffocation or I have found the skull crushed on smaller deer/elk. Lions bury their prey to keep other predators and birds from finding it so easy. They do return and usually will clean the animal up unless the meat spoils or it has been found by other predators. They also do open up the animal, but not through the rectal opening....they head straight for the heart...liver...lungs
Coyotes tend to focus on the rear of the animal when killing their prey....breaking it down.

 

[COBUK]

Guys,

I appreciate your comments. In regards to the lion kill that I looked at this week. After the lion killed the deer it drug it underneath a vehicle ( this happened in a residential area ) and chewed through the ribs to get at the organs in the chest. My main reason for asking these questions, was because the law enforcement personnel that investigated the kill felt that the deer had been killed by a coyote. I didn't agree with their assesment and that's why I caped out the deer and wanted to check with you guys about your experiences with lion kills.

 

[Cali4x4]

I have seen a bobcat and a coyote attempt kills on blacktails by going for the throat and suffocating. The only difference was the coyote was working the fawn with help from two other yotes to corner the deer for the grab. The bobcat I only saw him hanging from the neck of a doe. I assume she ambushed the doe.

 

[cjboz]

Catman +1 I have also seen lion kills with the bridge of the nose crushed and jaw broke for where they smothered the nose and mouth of the deer.

 

[oakbrush]

>Guys,
>
>I appreciate your comments. In regards
>to the lion kill that
>I looked at this week.
>After the lion killed the
>deer it drug it underneath
>a vehicle ( this happened
>in a residential area )
>and chewed through the ribs
>to get at the organs
>in the chest. My main
>reason for asking these questions,
>was because the law enforcement
>personnel that investigated the kill
>felt that the deer had
>been killed by a coyote.
>I didn't agree with their
>assesment and that's why I
>caped out the deer and
>wanted to check with you
>guys about your experiences with
>lion kills.


Yep, look for a crushed nose. They will lock thier jaw around the end of a deers nose and push the deers nostrils up against the back roof of thier mouth so they can't get any air.

About 3 years ago, I watched lion feed on a deer from accross a canyon and me and a buddy went over there later in the day and the carcass had about a 6" hole in the middle of the rib cage where the cat had been feeding on it. Just like you saw.

oakbrush

 

[maxxbob1]

Most of the lion kills I've found were killed with a bite to the neck. Here's a small buck that was had a bite on the back of the neck that seemed to have broken the neck. He had claw marks on his left front shoulder where it looked like he had been held down. The left rear ham had been eaten the morning that I first found him, and the skin had been stretched back over the missing meat. The lion returned every night and the entire deer was eaten in four nights.
-- Bob

 

[Avsman]

I was always told that the tell tell sign of a lion kill is that all the ribs will be broken off of the spine and they eat the ribs just like we do with their front paws. I don't know if there is any truth to this but I have seen several deer and elk carcasses where this is true.

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