Evolution Discoveries For 2013

Oh darn!

I'm not going to church this week....

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
See, you're evolving. " Poof " replaced by science and logic.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Honestly....

My testimony of a creator and Jesus Christ was never stronger than after I finished my pre-med courses, physics, chemistry....and my classes in Archeology covering evolution.

If you learn the intricate systems in the body...then learn the intricate systems of the environment...then study evolution...you can not deny that there is a creator....and your theory that we came from salamanders....lays where it started....in the mud.

I believe in "genetic drift" as it relates to evolution...but proving that evolution occurs....meaning entire new species from entirely different species....well....they cant do that...not yet anyway.

But, we are both just operating on opinion and I respect the fact that you, unlike some people, took the time to think about it.

I can watch water turn to ice, then to water, then to steam.....and disappear....but none of it's matter was lost?

Amazing process if you think about it.

Now tell me, as onery as you are, that the energy you are full of, and you are very very very full of it......tell me that all that...all that emotion....all that love.....all those memories....all that strife....just ceases to exist....

I would argue that it simply becomes less visible.

Proving evolution....in many ways....proves there is a creator.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
What do you remember from before you were born? that is what death is like. there is no doubt in my mind.

I can understand why some people can't deal with death and the finality of it, but as we know reality often sucks. this along with the desire to answer questions that could not be answered at that time is what creates the superstition all human cultures have created. as Einstein said, religion is the product of human weakness.

I ask you , now that we know the earth is not flat and we have seen what's on top of the clouds and we know the earth is billions of years old . would those sheepherders who wrote the bible spin the same tales? I think not. so why can't we use the same common sense to accept that evolution is obvious?

The notion of a creator is more plausable than religion, I will give you that, but if one exists it is not anything like human superstition imagines it to be. that I'm sure of.


If a person wants to deal with death without fear you need to realize your place in the big picture, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you really aren't nearly as significant as you think you are. you are no more special than your brother the deer, elk or bear. you have no soul, you are a mammal , why do you think pig parts will work in you.

Once you get over yourself you will realize when you are in the mountains for instance you are part of the surroundings, higher on the food chain but just another mammal on a planet you were eveolved to live and die on. is that really so bad? when I die I will have my ashes spread over my favorite hunting grounds, if it were acceptable I'd have my body left there like my ancestors did. this is comforting to me, there is no place I'd rather be I don't need anything more.

I appreciate the fact you will discuss this like an adult, most of the time I get eternal damnation or worse if you don't toe the kool aid line.


Maybe this will settle it once and for all, I'd love to see this go down.


http://gma.yahoo.com/39-bill-nye-sc...tion-154509272--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1













Stay thirsty my friends
 
You said:

"If a person wants to deal with death without fear you need to realize your place in the big picture, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you really aren't nearly as significant as you think you are. you are no more special than your brother the deer, elk or bear. you have no soul, you are a mammal , why do you think pig parts will work in you."

______________________________________________________

I could say:

If a person wants to deal with death without fear you need to realize your place in the big picture, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you really aren't nearly as significant as you think you are. you are no more special than your brother the deer, elk or bear. you have no soul, you are a mammal , why do you think pig parts will work in you.

...........And have this be an opinion in favor of creation.

Perhaps pig parts work in us....because we are not unique....the creator realized we would live on the same pile of dirt....and eat similar things....and thus would need similar parts.
_____________________________________________________

Anyway, I get your point and my beliefs do require a great amount of faith....I realize that....but I believe it requires less faith than a belief that I came from a salamander....by chance....somewhere in the middle of an unending universe.....

I look around at that universe and see mans realization that the Earth is round as further proof of a creator.....that there is more to it than meets the eye.

I look at the Hubble Space Telescope and the proof that Black Holes exist and the universe has no end......and it proves that eternity exists....religion or not....try and explain eternity and how the first matter came into being....or explain where the edge of space is....and then tell me what is on the other side.....these things...for me....point to a creator.

Evolution has a hard time explaining loves existence....in a world dominated by survival of the fittest how do you explain my desire to give 5% of my profits to welfare programs....how do you explain complete strangers giving kidneys to complete strangers.....Survival of the fittest doesn't fit....The Problem of Love is an interesting philosophical discussion...

I don't believe in religion....I believe in a path....I don't believe in a Church...I believe in a brother....that he existed can not be debated for he is the most remembered person on Earth....that he was one of the most controversial of people to ever exist can not be debated....that people have perverted his teachings can not be debated....that people have done things in his name that would shame him can not be debated.......but his message was....love each other.

I can believe in a creator when looking at the universe.
I can believe in a creator when looking at evolution.
I can believe that if there was a creator he would love us.
I can believe that if there was a creator he would allow us our agency....just as he has his....to create love and evil....to hurt and destroy.....to create joy and progress....

But, I believe that just as a mother has a sixth sense about what is going on with her children....I believe she was connected with that child literally and after that chord is cut she is still connected with that child spiritually because she created it.....

That same connection between the mother and child....exists between me and my creator....you can tell me he doesn't exist....but even in the face of death....especially in the face of death....I may feel fear....but I can feel something...which I cannot deny.

I respect your thoughts.....thank you for respecting mine.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
I see your points though I may not agree with them I can't fault them. you're superstitious but not rabid batchit like Manny or the taliban. no harm can come from that to you or others.



If you don't pick a religion there isn't much to debate , the theory a general creator is in charge of everything like a CEO can't be proven or disproven. I don't think so, I don't see why any entity that powerful would waste it's time on a project lasting trillions of years with no payoff. so it's illogical, but not impossible.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Now we get into the crazy stuff....

Why would a creator do this? Fair question.....It is a test based on love....I believe we will one day be creators...if we live right....we are passing a test....the same way our creator once did himself....thus helping to support the theory Scientists have a "expanding universe" at an exponential rate. However, we are as deep as I dare go.

You make good points as well. Have a great Saturday.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Why would a creator this powerful want to mindscrew us into 5000 different religions just to see if we would have blind faith in the right one? I might argue he would pick the winner as the one smart enough not to believe something there is absolutly no proof exists.

Most people of the highest intellect like scientists including Einstein, Hawkings and brilliant businessmen like Carnegie and Buffett are athiests. so if your creator is looking for the best you may want to join our ranks. unless you think Bush, Carter, Obama and Manny are what he'd consider better players because they had blind faith in a fairytale.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Our creator did not create religion. Man did with his free agency. We are all given the chance to do whatever we want with our thoughts and too each other. We know innately what is right and wrong. So, what we do will be on our heads.

Remember, religion was created by man. By the very creatures you claim to have come from salamanders.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now, as far as atheists having the corner on brains.....NAAAA

George Washington believed in God. So did:
Sir Fancis Bacon
Abraham Lincoln
Ludwig Van Beethoven
Samuel Adams
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Franklin

CHARLES DARWIN:
"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the CREATOR into a few forms or into one.

Christ Jesus and his salvation. Is that not the best theme."

oh, there is more......
James Dwight Dana - Yale Professor - President of The American Association for the Advancement of Science
Charles Dickens
Daniel Defoe

Inscribed in Fine Hall at Princeton University is a quote from Albert Einstein - Raffiniert ist der Herr Gott, aber Bonshaft ist er nicht." (God is clever, but not dishonest)

Dwight D Eisenhower
Gerald Ford
Benjamin Franklin
Ulysses S. Grant

***Harry Reid (Latter Day Saint, D from Nevada, Leader of Senate)
*****The anointed one....Barak Hussain Obama

Alexander Hamilton
John Hancock

John Harvard - founder of Harvard University

Conrad Nicholson Hilton - Founder of Hilton Hotels

Martin Luther King

Douglas Mcarther

AND

Rush Limbaugh........no wonder you are an atheist!

---------------------------------------------------

Smart people on both sides of the fence...
-------------------------------------------------
No evidence of a creator? That depends on how you see the world. To me, like Darwin, I look at nature and it SCREAMS to me that there is a creator. I see the circle of life...and it screams to me that there is a creator...a designer. To me, I see a kernel of wheat and the way it grows and nourishes life and then grows again, and it screams to me that there is a creator. I see a redwood tree having grown from a seed the size of a pebble...and it SCREAMS so loudly that THERE IS A CREATOR.

I understand genetic drift....but to think that the intricacies of life could come from an ameba in the mud and develop into something like and eye with its lenses and into the love I have for my boy......I'm sorry....Scientifically I see it both ways....but in my heart I feel something sure.







"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Ben Franklin was a diest, as it sounds you are. he said, " the way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason "

The vast majority of scientists both past and present are athiests , many may be diests but they don't admit it. not that many leaders are athiests , an athiest cannot get elected they have to take power. Jefferson was about the only American but Lenin and Gorbachev were.

As I said there isn't any way to debate the existence of a creator, it's like arguing how high is up. all you can do is use logic and logic tells me there is no reason for a creator to create without a payoff. unless we're a bug in a jar for his amusement what possible good are we to an entity that powerful? the whole thing is illogical.

If you want to debate organized religion that's a blast because it's like shooting fish in a barrel. they have stated the facts according to Garp, you won't take a stand that can be proven or disproven . at least you're not crazy.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-14 AT 03:54PM (MST)[p]

Ey pastor 220 this sums it up nicely for me thanx...◄ Matthew 23:24 ►?You blind instructors You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. By the way atheism is a religion n your one of their pastors...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-14 AT 04:18PM (MST)[p]>Why would a creator this powerful
>want to mindscrew us into
>5000 different religions just to
>see if we would have
>blind faith in the right
>one? I might argue
>he would pick the winner
>as the one smart enough
>not to believe something there
>is absolutly no proof exists.
>
>
>Most people of the highest
>intellect like scientists including Einstein,
>Hawkings and brilliant businessmen like
>Carnegie and Buffett are athiests.
> so if your creator
>is looking for the best
>you may want to join
>our ranks. unless you think
>Bush, Carter, Obama and Manny
>are what he'd consider better
>players because they had blind
>faith in a fairytale.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends


First off I gotta go back to Jesus, when he left this earth he did not comand the deciples to create a bunch of diff?rnt religions, just to see who gets it right...

let's say for argument sake that there is a devil an anti god creature such as your self, n u had somewhat of supernatural power n your arch enemy was god of the bible, wouldn't it be a great tactic to confuse the sheeple by suggesting a bunch of diff?rnt religions, yah it would, the greatest trick of the devil is to get people like u to not believe he exists.

U say I'm walking by blind faith sometimes that's true, but as a whole not so true, I first met Jesus in 1978 when he walked into my room while I was praying, he looked human but transparent but yet he spoke to me audibly in which he recited a scripture to me, "quote i will never leave you nor forsake you"

Not my problem to convince you I know what I saw didn't ask for it just happened, n no I didn't go out and start another religion as other who had some sort a encounter did...

I have seen UFO A couple time while hunting with witness's of course, n I have seen angles in my house since that time, every time I have seen something supernatural it lined up with scripture ...

The bible talks about Satan maskqarading as an angel of light fooling those who will listen to his lies....
 
seen angles in my house

You ever see a house without angles?...I sure as chit havent.
 
I've met Jesus too, he changed pipe for me for 3 years.

No UFO's or angels, I don't do drugs.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
Ahhhhh yes, let the games begin.

Referencing scripture and calling names....great!


"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Manny is what I think of when I think of religion, just like Phil the bearded duck molester or the taliban.



That's why the new pope impresses me so much, he's the excact opposite. just as looney, but in a positive way.

















Stay thirsty my friends
 
And Jesus said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god"

So much for the kingdom of god, or Jesus for that matter,
 
He did command his disciples in Matthew to cut off their hands and gouge out their eyes if then sin?

Do you have both hands and eyes?

In Matthew he also commands disciples to raise the dead, heal the sick and cleanse those who have leprosy.

Somewhere in there he must have covered learned to spell.

Nemont
 
This ones for you 440






"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
It's good when Manny is occupied here, it gives the chior boys a chance to escape.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
>And Jesus said "It
>is easier for a camel
>to go through the eye
>of a needle than for
>a rich man to enter
>the kingdom of god"
>
> So much for the kingdom
>of god, or Jesus for
>that matter,


You see piper your kind should not attempt to explain the bible something your not educated in the eye of a neddle is not the one you sew with, it was something much how we feed cattle where the cow has to poke their head in through the pipes to get to the hay, is ancient time their idea was a narrow short hole in the wall where the camel had to get down on its knees and stick its head into the hole to get to the hay....yah your welcome, so even you can enter the kingdom of God if you will only humble yourself and bend then knees...
 
" your kind " , does that mean morman? or just someone who dosen't have god on speed dial like you?

Even if you're right, isn't it still going to be hard for the camel to get through a hole cut just large enough for it's head? so the meaning is the same.

Give me the fire and brimstone of this one , " we shall be judged by how we treat the least among us ". how does that jive with the republican god squad making a platform of trying to screw the poor? is there something in the bible to contradict it? don't let me down there always is.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
>
> " your kind " ,
>does that mean morman? or
>just someone who dosen't have
>god on speed dial like
>you?
>
>Even if you're right, isn't it
>still going to be hard
>for the camel to get
>through a hole cut just
>large enough for it's head?
> so the meaning is
>the same.
>
>Give me the fire and brimstone
>of this one , "
>we shall be judged by
>how we treat the least
>among us ".
>how does that jive with
>the republican god squad making
>a platform of trying to
>screw the poor?
>is there something in the
>bible to contradict it?
>don't let me down there
>always is.


Just in case you never read it for yourself here is the reference to what you quoted:?

The Judgment of the Nations. Matthew 25"

31,??When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his throne,
32?and all the nations* will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33?He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34?Then the king will say to those on his right, ?Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35?For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36?naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.?
37?Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ?Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38?When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39?When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you??
40?i And the king will say to them in reply, ?Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.?
41?Then he will say to those on his left, ?Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42?For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43?a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.?
44?Then they will answer and say, ?Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs??
45?He will answer them, ?Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.?
46?And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.?

I assure you that is not the only prerequisite god will be using to judge us all, it's just one, first and foremost will be weather you rejected his son n the salvation he offered the world...

◄ John 14:6 ►Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...

Not to mention you can never be satisfied by my response until you...
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he exist and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.?Hebrews 11 ,?King James Version...

The Narrow Gate."
13??Enter through the narrow gate;* for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to hell and those who enter through it are many.
14?How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.??Matthew 7...

If you truly want to see what Jesus meant by eye of needle look at this reference n scroll down to see the picture ref...?http://www.angelfire.com/wy/Franklin4YAHWEH/camelthroughneedle.html

By the way I'm not a republican I am a conservative...when I said piper n his kind I meant people who mock god n people who trust in him...like me....
 
I know you tried to present this subject as an interesting fact but to believe that evo crap takes more faith then to believe in god because all those artifacts can't speak but god is speaking to you right now...

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he exist and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11 , King James Version.?

All of life hinges on that scripture, you can't see god but you can't see the wind either, and because you don't believe in him you can see his works or his miracles he performs on a daily basis.

I can tell you about the lady who was sent home to die of cancer her family were making her funeral arrangements when I heard the lord tell me to go pray for her, I was nervous but I went to their house n no they were not Christians, just friends,?

when I walked into her room, she was not in her right mind I had my bible in my hand and she asked me why did I have a pail and a mop in my hand, I said I come to pray for you, she heard i come to clean up the mess, what mess, she said, I just walked over to her bed and laid hands on her and in the name of Jesus I prayed for her healing, nothing happened that moment but just a few hours later she got up wanting something to eat, long story short there was no more evidence of cancer in her body, you see dude it don't take much for me to believe in god any more....

And when I mentioned UFO earlier, if you look good in the old testament there is mention of them there, I believe the devil is in charge of those because they're another gimmick to sway people from god, I've seen them twice in my time n the feeling I got when I saw them was evil....

The first time I saw one I was scouting out in the desert near Susanville with my wife n kids they all saw it, the second time I saw one was at day break I was guiding a couple guys for deer n they both saw it, it was quite large larger then a 747 jet square and not aerodynamic either...

Lastly anytime some one is trying to get you to comply or join a particular religion it ant god, he just wants you to seek his son n what he did for us on the cross.?

and all this republican n democratic stuff is all hogwash, republican are just trying to protect their way of life such as a capitalistic government and the dems are pretending to care for the poor, right, why don't we take some of the billions of dollars those Hollywood heroes make n put n end to poverty, thats where we need to focus is on the hypocrites backing this share the wealth bs make them be first in line right....hmmm......
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-14 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]Mark 16:15-18 (KJV)
15[And he said unto them, ] Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall step on serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and the sick shall recover.
 
>He did command his disciples in
>Matthew to cut off their
>hands and gouge out their
>eyes if then sin?
>
>Do you have both hands and
>eyes?
>
>In Matthew he also commands disciples
>to raise the dead, heal
>the sick and cleanse those
>who have leprosy.
>
>Somewhere in there he must have
>covered learned to spell.
>
>Nemont


Ne u claim to be a Christian , I suppose you think Jesus meant to take that scripture literally right....

Well no he's saying if you have a sin that is causing you to be separated from god stop it cut it out knock it off, I think they're call metaphors?

Spelling; your worried about my spelling really
 
Manny your typical many religious folk, you take scripture and twist it to fulfill your wants.

The eye of a needle saying was a common description in the day of Jesus, it described something that was very hard to do, much the same as it still does today.

I'm sometimes surprised that more religions don't disbelieve in Jesus altogether, many of his teachings go against the materialism and greed that people are so heavily into these days.

By the way how is money grubbing going for you lately? still think we can abolish Obamacare?
 
Manny,

Thanks for clearing that up. Here is one that I have yet to have you explain to me in a way that makes any sense.

◄ Romans 13 ►
New American Standard Bible
Be Subject to Government

1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 or rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience? sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.



Is this saying that who ever gets elected is ordained by God to be in the position of power? As a Christian aren't you supposed to render onto Caesar yada, yada, yada?

I like your single minded pursuit of your beliefs but I can't figure out if you believe the entire book or just the parts that fit your agenda.

Nemont
 
Manny, I found this educational video and you're right. you can rape your mother and kill her and get into heaven as long as you accept jesus before you die.

The first 4 of the 10 commandments deal with gods narcissistic needs, then we get to the other less important BS.

Your god has quite a need for attention, and he won't offer a shred of proof he exists in spite of it. kind of odd wouldn't you say? he's rather you kill, rape and steal than ever doubt or disrespect him. what a great guy he must be, I think I'll take my chances with satan he doesn't seem as conceited.


Anyway............Care to take a shot at evolution with facts not fiction? no more churchese keep it in english.























Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-14 AT 04:15PM (MST)[p]Ey pipe dude, Money grubbing....? Don't know bout you but I work for a living n so does my wife....

Ne?

You remind me of the scripture where it says the lawyers tried to get Jesus tangled up in his knowledge of scripture, you are a classic example of the blind leading the blind...

After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?"

"Yes, he does," he replied.

When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. "What do you think, Simon?" he asked. "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes?from their own sons or from others?"

"From others," Peter answered.

?Jesus said to him. "But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours."?

The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke each tell of another account, when the Pharisees tried to trap Jesus in his words, and find a reason to accuse him. In Matthew 22:15-22?it says...

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

"Caesar's," they replied.

Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."?

Therefore, we can conclude from this verse, if we don't pay taxes we are rebelling against the authorities established by God.


1 Timothy 1:9-10 (KJV)
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,.

From what I've seen in scripture Jesus loved hanging with the sinners but it was the so called religious who gave him a hard time and hung him on a cross...
 
Manny you're batchit. to say anything else is a waste of time.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-14 AT 04:56PM (MST)[p]Manny,

>Ne

>You remind me of the scripture where it says the lawyers tried to >get Jesus tangled up in his knowledge of scripture, you are a >classic example of the blind leading the blind...

So now you are Jesus and I am a blind Lawyer? I can't keep up.

So you can't answer if this is true or not?
"1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God"

One would think, like a blind lawyer let's say, that if this were not true then the word of God would have not been so definite about it. It doesn't say anything about what party, or even what gender or whether political leaders were good or bad, it says none of them would exist except those "established" by God.

So either that is a true literal reading of it or it is not. How do the righteous know when it is true and when it is not true?

Nemont
 
Manny says you're a cult, so I'm guessing your chances are not so good.

I'm an anti-god creature, so I think mine are even worse if it makes you feel any better.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
440 says God is narsasistic , spelling?...if your coming from the outside as a stranger ya I can see it seeming that way but all through the bible God says he is married to his people so it more like a husband n wife relationship you wouldn't dare spend too much time with another woman with out making your wife jealous or mad...yah I know you didn't think of it like that...
 
>Manny, I'm Mormon, will I get
>to heaven?? And don't
>give me the 'it's not
>my place to judge' garbage,
>I want to know what
>you feel?? Will I make
>it in with my current
>belief system?
>
>https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters


Tell you what if you have an open mind I will respond to you but if your just looking for an argument no thanx I gave arguing with Mormons and JW' as well...

I will say this , the bible says work out your own salvation with fear n trembling, KJV...

So if I were in your shoes and I was once, I was raised Catholic, I would not take my word for it not to mention a man who wrote a book and didn't believe the bible was the plum line all life must use....
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-14
>AT 04:56?PM (MST)
>
>Manny,
>
>>Ne
>
>>You remind me of the scripture where it says the lawyers tried to >get Jesus tangled up in his knowledge of scripture, you are a >classic example of the blind leading the blind...
>
>So now you are Jesus and
>I am a blind Lawyer?
> I can't keep up.
>
>
>So you can't answer if this
>is true or not?
>"1 Every person is to be
>in subjection to the governing
>authorities. For there is no
>authority except from God, and
>those which exist are established
>by God"
>
>One would think, like a blind
>lawyer let's say, that if
>this were not true then
>the word of God would
>have not been so definite
>about it. It doesn't
>say anything about what party,
>or even what gender or
>whether political leaders were good
>or bad, it says none
>of them would exist except
>those "established" by God.
>
>So either that is a true
>literal reading of it or
>it is not. How
>do the righteous know when
>it is true and when
>it is not true?
>
>Nemont


440' batchit...?


Ne' i did answer it, the law was written for the lawless I obey the laws of the land as I'm sure you do...but answer me this hotshot, if the law of the land becomes turn in your weapons, do you obey...? And for us Christians the law of the land says you cannot have a bible anymore do you obey, or say you cannot pray to Jesus...I think you get my drift....

Just like homeland security has placed returning vets on their terrorist list and us end time bible believing Christian have been put on it as well ... Our government has gone bonkers in my humble opinion ...peace out dudes...
 
I know what I would do.

I can't find that qualification in the passage. It says no power exist except that which came from god, nothing about bonkers or not bonkers.

The passage doesn't equivocate on the issue that is why I asked.

So if you, the believer, gets to choose when a government is or is not "bonkers" what is the process for how you decide when to not follow the political leaders installed by god? Seems odd that in the word of god on this issue there isn't a place where he said: But if the government is "bonkers" then you decide for yourself what is best.

Just curious.

Nemont
 
Manny if god is so concerned about what people think of him why doesn't he just zap all the ones who deserve it? the 4 most important things in the world are what you think of god according to his words but I can call him a fraud and my life goes on just fine. we have to wait until it can't be proven what happened before we are judged, it's all a big secret so just believe and it's all good.


That doesn't make sense to a thinking person. so just don't think is that the trick?

















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Manny, just stop now before it gets worse...and it will

You have good intentions...but...you see how they are shredding you

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Does he have good intentions? that's the problem with religion everyone assumes the intent is good when it's often not. the jihadists stand out only because they have less patience and more dedication.

Manny hates catholics, mormans, muslims and athiests of course. he allows us to exist because his god is too weak to take us out now, we have to wait until we die on our own to get what we deserve .

Mother Theresa had good intentions, like most fanatics Manny doesn't.


No more comments on evolution ?
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
>I know what I would do.
>
>
> I can't find that qualification
>in the passage. It
>says no power exist except
>that which came from god,
>nothing about bonkers or not
>bonkers.
>
>The passage doesn't equivocate on the
>issue that is why I
>asked.
>
> So if you, the believer,
>gets to choose when a
>government is or is not
>"bonkers" what is the process
>for how you decide when
>to not follow the political
>leaders installed by god?
>Seems odd that in the
>word of god on this
>issue there isn't a place
>where he said: But if
>the government is "bonkers" then
>you decide for yourself what
>is best.
>
>Just curious.
>
>Nemont


I think it's pretty easy to see when a government is is righteous or evil one that is doing its very best to take god out of it is , well let's just say is not righteous ...

I would also consider this as well for that scripture rulers exist because god allows them to...
 
440,

A creator does not have to be narcissistic in order to have created us.

Answer this....if there was a God.....would he not have to be just? Benevolent? Omnipotent?

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Berry, while I believ the Mormon people are some of the most sincere people on planet earth thay are sincerely wrong...


You know it doesn't matter what I believe it matters what Gods word says, or dictates...

Joseph Fielding Smith, the 10th prophet and president of the Mormon Church stated:

Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. ?He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. ?There is no middle ground. ?If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an imposter cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. ?If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. ?The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the Scriptures. ?(Doctrines of Salvation, 1:188)

We should all be ready to accept Mr. Smith's challenge. ?Below are some of the questions Mormons ask when confronted with biblical truth.

If the Mormon Church is wrong, why is it the fastest growing church today?

The earth's entire population was outside the Ark during the Great Flood. ?Does this mean the world was right and Noah wrong? ?If size and numbers indicates truth, then we would have to declare Islam and Catholicism the true church. ?The fact that so many false religions grow so rapidly just proves what Jesus said in the book of Matthew. ?And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24:11)
?
Why don't Christian churches have apostles and prophets as the foundation of their Church as the Mormon church has?
?
Mormonism stands or falls on its foundation of prophetic and apostolic leaders. ?The Mormons use Ephesians 2:20 as their scriptural support for believing that their prophets are the foundation of the true church. ?It reads: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone. ?The problem seems to be that they only read half the verse. ?We can also refer to I Corinthians 3:11 - For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ?The Bible also tells us that the coming of John the Baptist marked the end of the Old Testament era. ?For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John (Matthew 11:13). ?The law and the prophets were until John...(Luke 16:16)
?
?Was there a total apostasy of the Church, thereby necessitating its restoration by Joseph Smith?

To say there was a total apostasy would be to credit Jesus Christ with a gross lie. ?Jesus said, Upon this rock will I build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ?(Matthew 16:18) ?As Acts 4:11-12 clearly states that rock was Jesus Christ. ?I Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. ?Indeed some have fallen away, but the gates of hell will not prevail against the church that was founded on Jesus Christ.
?
?Where do you get your authority?

The Mormons claims his authority in a human priesthood, but the true believers authority comes from the living Word of God, the Bible: ?But as many as received him, to them gave he power (authority) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. ?(John 1:12) ?For more information on the Mormon view that they hold the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods, see Errors in Mormon scripture.
?
If the Bible is God's infallible Word, why are there so many versions?

To argue that the existence of various versions of the Bible is reason enough to mistrust ?all of them is just not sufficient reason, ?Mormons mistrust the Bible because it is the book that refutes their doctrines. ?None of the version on the market today support Mormonism - not even Joseph Smith's own translation.?

Links:

*Manuscript Support for the Bible's Reliability

*Lost Books and Latter-Day Revelation- A Response to Mormon Views of the New Testament Canon - Luke Wilson

*The Gnostic Gospels- Are They reliable- Douglas Groothuis

*Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan Philosophy- ?Ronald Nash

The Trinity - Not Three Seperate Individuals

Mormons (LDS) believe that the Father, the Son (Christ), and the Holy Spirit are three seperate entities when indeed they are not. Biblical proof of this is:

1st John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

John 12:44-45 44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me
 
No.

If there was a god, why would he give a 6 year old kid cancer? is that just or benelovent?

God if he exists, doesn't give a crap about his minions the facts bear this out. do I need to give examples? then if god exists, he says the 4 most important things in the world have to do with worshiping him. well that's either classic narcissism or the work of primitive sheepherders not wanting to answer questions about their book.



So is god a douche or does he not exist?














Stay thirsty my friends
 
Manny, what bit of wisdom do you hold that proves the bible is the " real deal " and all the other religions are paths to hell?
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I get that there is evil in the world and our bodies are not perfect.....but

Please answer this.....

If there is a God wouldn't he have to be......

omnipotent, benevolent, and just?

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
I already said no. do you mean the opposite of what you're asking? then that would mean he's just a douche unworthy of worship.

He didn't want our bodies to be perfect? or was he incompetent? if there is evil in the world how much of it is his intent and how much is his indifference? he's either all powerful and loving or he's not stop cutting him slack.

















Stay thirsty my friends
 
You are wrong,

If there was a God, he would have to be all powerful and all knowing. He would not have the desire to be narcissistic.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Okay then, we'd have to assume there is no god given what he or she does to humanity and how insecure he or she is. I agree with you.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
No one can look at death and suffering as an end and believe that God loves. Death and suffering are means to open doors of knowledge and feeling that nothing else on this earth can....understanding this enables people to make sense of all the negative that we see daily.

This is what makes the idea of becoming like God as Mormon doctrine teaches so attractive, it provides reason and logic for our earthly existence...

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
I'm not sure I follow. are you saying death and destruction are not problems they're lessons?

What good can come of a prolonged painful death of a kid? or anyone for that matter? in my opinion, if a god did exist and he has the power of a 20W bulb he'd find a more compassionate way to spread his word or whatever it is he's after.

I have to assume just like a dinosaur in a tar pit some of us go out the hard way. sometimes things are just what they seem to be.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
yup 440 that's about the sum of it, it's not a great reason, but it is a reason.

There are some things that we can't be taught, for example I can't teach someone what salt tastes like, no matter my command of a vocabulary, if someone has never tasted salt there is no way that it can be adequately taught to them. It must be experienced.

Likewise there are some lessons and knowledge that come only from experiencing them, death happens to be one of them. Not one person can teach another what death is like, it must be experienced. Haha Duh right?? But it stands true.

Looking at death and suffering as a tool that God uses to bring about salvation, and by salvation I mean the Mormon understanding of it, is the only way that I can swallow what happens in the world. quite simply I have to believe that God looks at death and suffering differently than we do, to him it is not a terrible thing but a tool necessary for His children to gain the knowledge that he has.

Without this belief, there is no possible way I could believe in the concept of a loving God.


https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
I can't say I understand what you're saying but I guess I can understand why you don't ask many questions. but I bet you still look both ways when you cross the street, so admit it or not you have your doubts.

I have no problem with death, but I'm in no hurry to prove myself correct. I am 100% confident my grasp for the obvious trumps superstition.

About the only thing I can say is if god wanted to teach us it would be much easier on him/her to just come out and show us what we need to know than make it a 2500 year sadistic game. the whole thing is illogical.

We have 4200 known religions in the world and only one can be right, so if I'm wrong there will be over the course of humanity billions if not trillions of others burning in hell with me. so if you're 1 of 4200 with no proof whatsoever you're right I have to ask, do you feel lucky? if you like those odds I have to say that's faith I cannot imagine.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
In my beliefs, we chose to come here. We chose to show up to the gym to exercise and become better. If we heard that our muscles might be sore and we might not be able to eat French fries would we choose not to come. Yes, some chose not to show up for their workout.

Those of us who did decided that the pain required to become and learn was worth it.

You chose to be here. At least that is what I believe.

4500 religions.....and many of them have pieces of what is right.

Meaning many of them teach the same idea.....there is a creator or a greater power than man and matter.

Evils existence is a requirement for any existence. If there is a God we decided he must be all powerful. However, evil exists and therefore God must not exist because he allows evil to exist but knows how to remove it. And, he is entirely benevolent so he must want to remove it. So if he has the power and he wants to remove it why doesn't he?

Can we know light if there was no dark?
Would we choose right if there was no wrong?
Could we really have choice if there was only one option?

In all things opposites MUST be. So, we have evil....and good.....darkness.....and light.....in order to create one....the other must exist....the laws of physics demand it.

We chose to come here to learn. We knew we and others would have freedom to choose. We knew that things would not be "perfect" and that is PRECISELY why we came. We came to have trial and error.

There are crimes against children that are horrific. There are diseases that are terrifying and saddening. I have watched people die in my hands of horrible things. However, in these moments I have found peace knowing that these individuals knew before they came that it would be difficult....but to learn and become....is better than not.

We knew our muscles would hurt at the end of the workout. We knew that our bodies would be exhausted....and we knew we would be better for it.

I have other beliefs about people that harm children...or children that are taken early and tragically. They will receive their just reward....and so will their offenders.

440, you are not alone....yet you are...I believe you have a good heart....and soul....because you are more than flesh and bone....and we are all truly brothers not just on this Earth.

I don't expect to change your beliefs....I only want to help explain mine so that you can see there is reason...or an attempt at it.....on both sides of the fence.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
You're sounding a little like Manny lite.

How we survive is no coincidence and it didn't involve a higher power, we evolved to survive. those who didn't go to the gym as you say or couldn't take the pain just went off and died.

The more I hear how people think the more I'm convinced superstition was and maybe still is a factor in human survival. without it could humanity have survived ? I question if primitive man could accept reality and death without answers, answers he had no way of acquiring before science and technology.

So maybe superstition helped man through the times of not knowing by giving them hope and confidence. today while we are slowly evolving away from superstition it's still very much a part of society that like our tail bone should be completely gone . today as we hate and kill each other because our superstitions one has to wonder if our inability to evolve fast enough mentally won't what dooms us to extinction .



Stay thirsty my friends
 
440, I believe I am right and that the rest of the religious world is wrong....LDS doctrine teaches that every man, woman, and child that has ever been born or will be born, will have the opportunity to learn what I have been taught. Every single person whether they be jew, muslim, hindu, atheist, Satanist, etc... will all be given fair chance to learn about Jesus Christ, and how his atoning sacrifice can reconcile their poor choices in this life.

So even tho I think I am right, I also believe that everyone, rather than being damned for being wrong, will be given a fair chance to join me in being 'right'. That's a lot easier to swallow than the evangelists belief....

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-14 AT 09:45AM (MST)[p]The funny thing bout you dude, you come off as intellectual or even educated when it comes to most of the subject here n you act as if you have searched the evidence but I can see in all reality your nothing more then a god hater, not sure why or what happened to you when you was a kid...

The bible for the last 1000 years has been the best selling book (if you can call it a book) ... # 1 all time best selling book, 9 billion copies have been sold no other book on planet earth can come close to that, the number two book was the red book by that Chinese dictator dude at 17 million...

everyday around the world professors attack only one book the foremost, and that's the bible, not the book of Mormon as fictional as that is not the Koran, the bible, the most attacked person whoever lived that they attack as well is Jesus of Nazareth, sounds like to me if there is a God and there is, then there must be the enemy of God ie: the devil as the bible claims n it seems to me he is still angry and still trying to deceive mankind.

The evidence for the bible is overwhelming but when you come from a presupposition that it is science fiction then naturally you will be blind to the evidence pointing to the Creator, there are many things in science such as evolution that is such a farce it takes all faith you can muster to believe in then it does in God, and the science community is fine with that due to their presupposition on the subject, not to mention science is a faith as well when it comes to the origin of life.

So in short it doesn't matter what evidence is presented to you dude you guys are steeped in tradition n rather be there then search out for the truth, the bible say in ?◄ 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ► and with all deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and to be saved. 11 Therefore God will send them a strong delusion, so that they may believe a lie....

And due to that fact there will always be someone offended or pissst off at one who speaks the truth, I don't speak churchese but the opposite I never will point to a denomination, the truth I speak is simple I point only to the onee true ?God , Jesus Christ him crucified and him risen...so go n start your mocking session cause you have no facts....

Remember'

God did not create religion, God created man, man created religion....
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-14 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]Romans 12:1-21 (KJV)
[I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, ] which is[ your reasonable service.] 2[And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what ] is[ that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.] 3[For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think ] of himself[ more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.] 4[For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:] 5[So we, ] being[ many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.] 6[Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, ] let us prophesy[ according to the proportion of faith;] 7[Or ministry, ] let us wait[ on ] our[ ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;] 8[Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, ] let him do it[ with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.] 9Let[ love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.] 10Be[ kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;] 11[Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;] 12[Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;] 13[Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.] 14[Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.] 15[Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.] 16Be[ of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.] 17[Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.] 18[If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.] 19[Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but ] rather[ give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance ] is[ mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.] 20[Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.] 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.?
 
Then along came Manny. I said no churchese I don't read or speak it.


Berry,

I'm not sure what you're saying, everyone gets a shot after they die to convert? or do they have to do it prior to death? since your religion is rather new there are trillions who died before it, and a kid in Pakistan is going to be hard pressed to meet a morman I don't see how that would work too well.

Manny says with run of the mill christanity, Hitler can join god in cloudtown if he gave jesus a thumbs up before he died, but Ghandi was toast because he died a hindu. do mormans think the same?















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Yes 440 that's what i'm saying, its a concept of 'fairness'. God will give every person a chance to at least learn and accept 'the truth'. So yes, hitler, ghengis khan, and even Michael Jackson will all learn of and have the opportunity to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. At least that's how it's taught in the LDS faith.

Now, where I would differ with manny in his assertion that Hitler will make it to 'cloud heaven', is even if Hitler accepts the Gospel he is still going to face the judgment of God. He will be held accountable for his actions, what that means is determined by God, but just confessing the Lord Jesus after a life like that will not Suffice IMHO....the evangelist among us just spit coffee all over his monitor after that, and shortly will post numerous biblical citations about how accepting Christ is all that is necessary...

Personally I believe God is fair, or just, meaning that we will be held responsible for our action or lack there of in this life but, a person cannot be condemned for knowledge they never had an opportunity to attain....

Short and simple, I believe either in this life or the next, every person will have the chance to follow the 'right' path. Once they make that choice, then they will be judged for the life they led here....

So that wonderful little Pakistani boy will, in my belief system, learn of Christ choose to accept Him and then because he lived a good life and made wise choices inherit the Kingdom of God....Hitler on the other hand eh....not so much I don't think...

I hope that makes some sense and comes across as a much more fair or just plan.....

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
I can respect that, I still think you're crazy, but not in a negative way.


The new pope says pretty much what you're saying, that's why people like Manny hate him. he fears someone who didn't spend their life hating all the right people are going to get the same perks he gets in cloudtown.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 

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