Expo Hunt Tag drawing - Public Excluded

llamapacker

llamapacker

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Once again this year, the DWR is excluding ALL public witnesses at the draw for the Expo tags. The stated reason is "covid", and to protect the DWR employees.

This came directly from Lyndsey Varney (sp?, sorry not intentional) who spent the morning in the DWR booth talking to hundreds of people. (No masks or social distancing, but that is a different discussion!) Many DWR employees were at the show, interacting with countless sportsman, but the 20-30 people that usually show up for the drawing are being excluded again. While I never saw anything overtly suspicious at the drawing, it does not make sense to keep excluding the public. Not sure why I am surprised, but it is not a good look to keep rejecting ANY public oversight of this process.

Bill
 
If you can hold the expo and require validation in-person, certainly you can allow witnesses to the actual drawing.

I've never accused anybody of cheating on the Expo results (though I think there are clear inconsistencies [read: consistencies] in the program used to run the drawing); but not allowing witnesses doesn't look good.

Really, they should have an outside audit of the computer code as well as outside witnesses throughout.

If I was running a draw like that, I'd demand independent audits to ensure everybody was confident in the process. Not allowing those audit procedures is simply unwise.
 
To be fair, they suck at selling liquor also.

But yeah, only the high tech wizards at $fw are capable of a random number generator ?


Having said that. $fw is crooked, sleazy, dirty........but not stupid. No way in hell they would cheat in any way a public viewing would catch. A code audit, well that's different. But the expo is a multi million dollar industry for them, they aren't doing anything IN PUBLIC to risk losing it. That's what closed doors and backrooms are for
 
The real question is, Who's going to draw their fifth (or higher) Expo Tag this year?

The same people seem to draw way too regularly for it to be random.

I highly doubt they have anything written into the code guaranteeing certain people draw tags, but I do think they have an error that makes repetition more likely.
 
hossblur said:
To be fair, they suck at selling liquor also.

But yeah, only the high tech wizards at $fw are capable of a random number generator ?


Having said that. $fw is crooked, sleazy, dirty........but not stupid. No way in hell they would cheat in any way a public viewing would catch. A code audit, well that's different. But the expo is a multi million dollar industry for them, they aren't doing anything IN PUBLIC to risk losing it. That's what closed doors and backrooms are for
Click to expand...
Throw an atty in the room and call it privileged. That’s what the big boys do.
 
The "consultant" typically goes to the DWR office in SLC, and conducts the draw on his computer system under the "supervision" of DWR IT staff. I actually don't believe the draw itself is rigged. It would be too easy to prove if there ever was a forensic audit of the software. (Not very likely to have an audit, but you don't want a paper trail.)

However, once the draw is completed, if no one is there to review the list of names on his computer, then it is extremely easy to issue a tag to someone who did not actually draw. In my mind, the value of having some members of the public present is to review the list of "winners", making it much more difficult to slip in a famous/ connected/ influential recipient later in the process.

There is no justifiable reason to keep the public from attending the draw. The office is open for business, and the DWR staff are at the Expo interacting with staff every day. While there is PROBABLY nothing fishy going on, the fact they want to hide the process after holding it in a public forum for years only fuels conspiracy theories.

Bill
 
I never have understood why they put themselves in this type of situation to begin with, negative vibes.




Thanks for the heads-up Bill.




Robb
 
Allowing the public to watch the consultant press Enter on his laptop has always been just for show. Anyone who knows how draw algorithms/coding function can confirm. If the expo draw is rigged, the rigging was done before the consultant shows up for publicly viewed "random" draw.
 
So is it 200 tags that are available?

They can’t have 10 people physically draw those tags in the eyes of the public??

Shouldn’t take very long.

But, I guess big $$ is gonna run it to benefit big $$…
 
llamapacker said:
Once again this year, the DWR is excluding ALL public witnesses at the draw for the Expo tags. The stated reason is "covid", and to protect the DWR employees.

This came directly from Lyndsey Varney (sp?, sorry not intentional) who spent the morning in the DWR booth talking to hundreds of people. (No masks or social distancing, but that is a different discussion!) Many DWR employees were at the show, interacting with countless sportsman, but the 20-30 people that usually show up for the drawing are being excluded again. While I never saw anything overtly suspicious at the drawing, it does not make sense to keep excluding the public. Not sure why I am surprised, but it is not a good look to keep rejecting ANY public oversight of this process.

Bill
Click to expand...
I'm sure a few TV hunters will get tags once again... like last year's Book Cliffs deer hunts...
 

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