Fed. Lands to State.

BHA is organizing these in most Western states, especially MT.

The fear is that if there is a land transfer from Fed to State that eventually the state will sell the land off to private ownership and the loss of public hunting land will never come back.
 
Yes if you look at both Utah, Wyoming and possibly Nevada there are many looking at the federal lands and trying to figure out how to move federal lands into state owned lands.

As mentioned there is then fears that the states will not have the budgets, man power etc. To manage such large amount of land and they will be sold to the highest bidder. I know I have seen significant talk about such a move in Utah and this year in WY there is a legislative bill that would use sate funds to form a committee looking at such a move....

I have sent my emails, I highly doubt any of the states have a snowballs chance in hell, but it is a scary thought that would be supported by the wealthy and the politicians they have on the books!
 
You can put NM on that list of legislation/committees trying to figure out if the state can do a better job. Now way NM could afford it.
 
This is being pushed by many states as noted in these posts. The only reason the States want it is because they lease it to generate $ (I don't believe they can sell it directly in most cases which is also true with Federal Lands without a special law). All State School Trust Land in CO is not public land as it is leased typically to adjacent landowners, outfitters, etc. Once that happens, the property is treated as public and nobody can access it. This is straight from a game warden we spoke to last week when I was asking about State Trust properties. Make no mistake, State Land is not public land.
 
The problem is that the federal government has done this massive land grab over the years and in many cases especially in Utah have reneged on their promise when it was time to give it back. It was said that State Land isn't public but the Fed's are not our friend either and as long as they control land they control the States and us.

My thing is I don't trust the Feds or the states on anything. I'd rather have the states control everything within the boundaries of their own state including education, health care, and national parks. I'd rather give tax money to the state to manage all these things then the Feds.

The states need control of their own land and then the legislator needs to put in place laws to protect public access of those lands. I don't see the argument to oppose this as a good idea. We have to think ahead a ways and fight it at a local level or states level. GET THE FEDS OUT OF THE WAY!
 
Broomer,
That sounds great.... on the surface.
But the States cannot afford to manage the land. Period
These discussions are taking place in States where the population is very low compared to other States. It's those "other States" who help pay the freight for public land management for me and you, whereas, the States cannot afford to manage, fight fires and all else that comes with ownership.
The States would be FORCED to sell or lease some of the land to offset what folk (who don't even live close to the State) pay toward management.
I'm no fan of big government (Feds) BUT the States would HAVE to sell/lease to keep up with managing the land. The deep-pockets will get deeper and they're licking their lips at the prospects of failed State ownership and the sportsmen will be the biggest losers.
It's really that simple.
Zeke
 
Broomer, in CO we have many landowners that have blocked access to state and federal public lands. Would that be solved if the state were in control? Our state legislature cannot regulate oil/gas due to lack of funds and political pressure from the industry. If the state owned those lands, the simplest and cheapest solution would be to sell the lands to the industry. Say goodbye to ever hunting Piceance Creek, Douglas Pass, Grand Mesa, Battlement Mesa, Roan Plateau, West Elk Wilderness, and any part of BLM or Nat'l Forest the industry wants.

The feds are better at standing up for conservation interests than states are. Example: people can't ride atvs wherever they want on National Monuments in UT, just because they are within the borders of UT. Ranchers can't fence off and close BLM grazing land to hunters, without taking on federal law enforcement. Growth of an underground coal mine can't keep you from accessing the wilderness area that it lies below, no matter who bought and pays for your state legislature.
 
This from an advocacy group to my email:

Dear Mark,

CO Bill to Grab Control of Federal Public Lands introduced

When I first read Senate Bill 39 by state Sen. Kent Lambert (R-Colo. Spgs.) and state Rep. Stephen Humphrey (R-Severence) I was somewhat confused. The bill calls for establishing ?joint jurisdiction? with the U.S. government over national forests and B.L.M. land inside the boundaries of Colorado. The reason given for this bill is the sponsors feel the state of Colorado could do a better job of managing these lands and, in particular, that the state could do a better job of fighting forest fires than the feds. The federal government, by the way, is not asking Colorado to set up joint jurisdiction. ?Curious? I thought to myself.


But then I ran across an October 27th in-depth research article by Brian Calvert of the High Country News out of Paonia, Colorado. Turns out, SB-39 is part of an orchestrated effort in the Western states to have state governments take control of federal public lands and, in the case of Utah, take over ownership of those lands. In 2012 the Utah state legislature passed a law demanding the U.S. government turn over title to all public lands in the state! Contrary to how they portray it, this is not an altruistic effort by the bill?s sponsors. It's a plan about greed and exploitation that would make the Koch Brothers proud. Here?s how it works:

Step-by-Step Plan to Grab Public Lands for private use

STEP 1. Cite language in the original statehood documents that's archaic or ambivalent and claim your state has the right to assume jurisdiction of U.S. public property that is dormant or ?not being used to the benefit of our citizens?. Have your state pass a law asserting ?joint jurisdiction? over U.S. public lands.
STEP 2. After a quick budget impact analysis, inform your state?s citizens that the state government does not have the money to manage this sudden, huge influx of land onto the state?s responsibility. Only a large tax increase could pay for the costs of fighting forest fires, managing wildlife, conducting flood mitigation and maintaining thousands of miles of fence line, among other tasks that the U.S. government used to do. State that the new land acquisition is going to have to ?pay for itself? and get budget makers to agree.
STEP 3. Competitively bid leases of wooded lots to lumber/paper companies for clear-cutting. Put underground mineral rights up for bid to oil & gas drilling companies and mining companies. Lease forestlands next to ski resorts for additional ski runs. And so on.

As far-fetched as this sounds, this is a real effort that is underway in Colorado and other states. As Brian Calvert writes in his article:

Over the last two years, eight Western states have pursued this idea in one way or another. Wyoming has a task force currently studying legal avenues for a land transfer. Arizona passed a bill like Utah?s in 2012, but Republican Gov. Jan Brewer vetoed it. And last month, Montana legislators tabled their own version.

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), an association of corporations that produces ?model legislation? for pro-big business, conservative state legislators, is encouraging this effort. ALEC believes U.S. public lands ?prevents the states from accessing the abundant natural resources contained on those lands.? Here in Colorado, the effort in the form of SB-39 has been noticed by Denver Post editorial page writer Alicia Caldwell who believes it is ?fundamentally flawed?: http://www.denverpost.com/Opinion/c...for-states-to-want-to-take-over-federal-lands

We believe this is literally a sell-out of the public interest by legislators carrying this legislation. They are not interested in preserving open space and wildlife for future generations, they want serve their corporate masters and see them reap a profit right now. This is reprehensible and I really wanted you to be aware of it. We are speaking out against it and I hope you will, too.
 
Sounds like a very important subject to keep an eye on. I wish the opposite. Any state land should go back to the feds. There are some great state lands I'd love to hunt, but they've been leased and the public cannot access.
 
> I wish the opposite.
> Any state land should
>go back to the feds.
> There are some great
>state lands I'd love to
>hunt, but they've been leased
>and the public cannot access.
>

+1 Mr ghillie

The States make money off this land NOW. Why do we think it would be different if they got their hands on all of it in the future.

They'd sell, lease or trade the land and have even more money to waste and all the while the average sportsman is on the outside looking in!

Many of the States throughout the west are trying to do the same thing and if they succeed the outcome will be the same. WE WILL NOT BE HUNTING THE WAY WE HISTORICALLY HAVE BEEN.

zEKE
 
I didn't say it would be an easy transition. I just am in favor of less government in control and though an arugment can be made about state control not being on the side of the public and not having the funds to manage the land etc. I still believe that the people that live in the state have a FAR better interest in the land and it's many uses then the Fed's.

I used to think the Feds were the good guys until they used the federal lands and national parks as a political leverage when in the wave of the hand shut the dam forest down during the " shut down " . Here in Utah we have the Wasatch Front that is the backyard to 4 million people and the canyons that yield access to awesome country for recreation and hunting was literally closed with barricades in an effort to make it inconvenient on the public.

The states and the men and women who legislate them need to be held accountable for any of this to work and I think from a publics point of view it would be better to hold them to the fire on legislation then it would be to fight the federal government. Because we all know that D.C. Is full of crap.

You guys in Colorado need to take back the capital it's getting real liberal and I'd say the same dang thing for us in Utah. Salt Lake has been over run by STUPID.

I get the argument, but I certainly don't side with interest groups on either side because their interest in never my interest.

I also see a divide between sportsmen and Cattlemen association and landowners who sell to outfitters it's all about the mighty dollar and each and every person is trying to take as much as they can get. Landlocked land isn't a State vs Federal debate, Oil and Gas isn't an environmental issue it's a political agenda and if you think that they have the sportsman in mind so us average joe's can have access you are fooling yourself.

Your arguments about money have me scratching my head. Do any of you know how much money the national forest generates for the federal government? I don't and I am assuming that it's leveraged to make money ie LEASED to cattlemen... Deeded to privet landowners, fees and taxation for the management of them. All these same things could be done from the States point of view and like I said if I am going to pay a fee, a tax, a lease I don't want that money to end up overseas to fund some progressive agenda for their foreign policy.

Don't get me wrong I want to preserve our open space as much as you do. I just have become skeptical when someone says "support this" with a tag line of " their agenda". In this tread it is "protect our access as hunters"

Do we really know the in's and outs of this bill? Who is behind it? Does the sponsor have business dealings that he would benefit with the passage of the bill. Or are we so loyal to the idea of the federal government "protecting our interest" that we become beholden to this idea of BIG Government.
 
Most of your questions may be answered here:


Utah bill aims to force an end to the land transfer debate

Plus, a roundup of federal-to-state land transfer battles across the West.

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Kindra McQuillan | Feb. 19, 2015 | Web Exclusive
Earlier this month, Utah state Sen. Jim Dabakis put forward a surprising bill that would force the state to act on its attempts at transferring federal public land into the state's control. If passed, Dabakis? bill would force the state attorney general to make good on the Transfer of Public Lands Act and sue the federal government to move 20 million acres of public land to the state.

?The intent of the bill is to once and for all settle the question about who owns public lands in Utah,? Dabakis, a Democrat who opposes the transfer act, told me last week. ?We all just want finality.?

The land transfer movement, which has existed in Utah since the 1930s, was most recently resurrected in the 2012 Transfer of Public Lands Act. Opponents say the act is legally dubious and would fail in court, if tested.

But Sen. Dabakis insists the purpose of his bill is not necessarily to halta the transfer act, but to end the decades-long wider movement?whether that happens through the court upholding or killing the act.

?[The bill] has nothing to do with my position on the act,? he said in a recent interview. ?It's about forcing the hand of everybody. It's about forcing the hand of those who've made careers out of this dispute.?

That's a reference to the fact that Utah state Rep. Ken Ivory, who sponsored the 2012 act and also works full-time chairing an organization (the American Lands Council) that advocates for land transfers across the West, is professionally vested in this issue.

Ivory did not respond to multiple requests for an interview. But he told Utah?s Fox 13 News earlier this month that he opposes Dabakis? bill.

?I would speculate that Ken Ivory knows he'd lose in court, and Senator Dabakis has called the bluff,? said Jessica Goad, advocacy director at the progressive nonprofit Center for Western Priorities. ?Representative Ivory says he's working on the strategy in Congress, instead, but frankly I'd say that doesn't stand much of a chance either?. Utah?s taxpayers are losing with this fight that's been going on for so long. The sooner it ends, the better for them.?

But Ivory?s commitment to the transfer movement, along with Utah?s history of animosity toward the federal government, suggests the fight may not end soon, no matter what happens.


Utah's Senator Jim Dabakis seeks to end the land transfer debate. Photograph courtesy of wikimedia user Kirstenfrankly.
The idea of transferring public lands has persisted, despite the endeavor?s repeated failures, dating back to the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act, which made the feds responsible for setting grazing rules. That federal law caused a stir among Utah members of the American National Livestock Association, who wanted the more acquiescent state government to control grazing rights on public land.
A turnover of public lands from the feds would transform the West. But scholars say the legal hook to turn them over doesn't exist.

?The Constitution gives the federal government the authority to retain and manage that land,? said John Ruple, a professor at the University of Utah?s College of Law. Transfer advocates say state enabling acts?foundational documents for state governments?require the feds to hand over control of public land to states. But Ruple and other opponents of transfers disagree: "We don't think the state can make that claim. The state?s enabling act does not create an obligation, and in fact [in the act] the state is disclaiming any future claims to federal lands.?

And the argument that state governments can do a better job of managing public land would be irrelevant in court.

?Legally, it's like saying because your neighbor doesn't take good care of his house, his lawn is overgrown and his car is on blocks, and you think you could do better, that means you have the right to take over his property,? Ruple said.

Still, Ivory is keeping the argument alive. The same year he introduced the Transfer of Public Lands Act, he founded the American Lands Council, a non-profit that coordinates advocacy and lobbying for federal-to-state land transfers across the West. Since 2012, counties from at least nine of the 11 contiguous Western states have become paying members of the council, and several other Western states have drafted legislation to pave the way for transfers. The American Lands Council claimed revenue of $228,000 on its 2013 taxes, according to research by the Center for Western Priorities, up from about $123,000 in 2012. The ALC also claimed $95,000 for Ivory?s salary in 2013.

?I think Representative Ken Ivory is very committed to this cause,? Goad said. ?He works on it more than 40 hours a week. We also know from looking at the tax forms that he's personally benefitting, making money off of this cause. So he's committed to the cause, but he's also committed personally to there being a cause.?

Ivory?s interests not withstanding, Dabakis? bill is gaining traction. Earlier this month, it passed Utah?s Natural Resources, Agriculture and Environment Committee with support from both Democrats and Republicans, including Rep. Keven Stratton, who co-sponsors two other bills that make way for a land transfer.

?Some of the TPLA supporters, I think, are optimistic the court might order the feds to turn over the deed,? Dabakis said. ?And my guess is, win, lose or draw, they also just want finality.?



North Sixshooter on Indian Creek is on Utah's 30-plus million acres of federal land, which some legislators seek to transfer to state hands. Photograph courtesy of Todd Burritt.
Among Western states, the land transfer movement has made the most ground in Utah. But it's certainly not the only state where the movement is taking place. Here?s what's happening elsewhere: ?Nationally: Last week, Rep. Diane Black of Tennessee introduced the ?Federal Land Freedom Act,? which would allow states to develop energy on federal lands. The same bill failed in Congress last year.
?Colorado: A bill that proposes state and federal ?concurrent? jurisdiction and management on federal land is in the legislature. Meanwhile, a poll released by Colorado College earlier this month indicates that 68 percent of residents in six western states oppose the transfer movement.
?Idaho: A bill to study transfer logistics passed the legislature in 2013, and the results of the interim committee?s research recommend that Idaho continue laying the groundwork for a takeover of public lands. Legislators are now talking about possible next steps. Meanwhile, around 200 sportsmen marched on the state capitol last week to oppose the action.
?Montana: Three transfer bills are met with stiff opposition. Republican Sen. Jennifer Fielder?s SB 215 assures that public lands will not be sold to private entities in the event of a transfer. Two other bills prohibit the federal government from selling federal land within Montana, and create a task force to assess the feasibility of a transfer. Meanwhile, hundreds of protestors gathered in Helena on Monday, and a petition to Gov. Steve Bullock to block any efforts to seize public land acquired three thousand signatures within 24 hours of going online. The Montana Wood Products Association board of directors issued a policy statement last Friday opposing efforts to transfer federal lands to the state, and state Sen. Jon Tester called the transfer movement ?a mistake.?
?Nevada: A task force created in 2013 has concluded that Nevada stands to gain from a federal transfer, but Paul Aizley, the chairman of the Legislative Committee on Public Lands, refuses to allow talk of transfer in committee. Meanwhile, motorized recreationists are rallying behind the transfer movement in response to a Bureau of Land Management plan to limit motorized access on millions of acres of agency land.
?New Mexico: Twin bills to study transfer feasibility passed their respective committees last week with support from the Stockmen?s Association, which is concerned about grazing restrictions on federal lands. Meanwhile, environmental, sportsmen?s and Native American groups are rallying against the bills. Last week Tesuque Pueblo tribe?s Gov. Milton Herrera testified against it. Federal law and policy, he said, protect Native cultural and religious sites on public land, but there are no state guarantees of the same protection.
?Washington: Senate Bill 5405, which seeks to create a task force studying the feasibility of a transfer, was last week passed to the Senate Rules Committee to decide if the bill will get a second reading.
?Wyoming: Senate File 56, which asks for $100,000 to study transfer feasibility, passed the Senate, while its twin House Bill 209 awaits decision. Meanwhile, nine sportsmen?s groups along with the Sweetwater County Commission wrote a letter to Wyoming legislature earlier this month protesting the transfer, which the groups claim Wyoming can't afford.
?Arizona: Four Arizona counties, along with a number of counties from eight other Western states, have become members of Ivory?s American Lands Council. County yearly membership fees range from $1,000 to $25,000. Meanwhile, hundreds marched on a national forest in Arizona this month to protest a transfer of 2,400 acres of federal land, which houses sites sacred to the San Carlos Apache tribe, to Resolution Copper Mining Company.
?Oregon: Two counties from Oregon have become members of the American Lands Council.
?California: No counties are listed as members on the American Land Council website, which is surprising because California, like other Western states, has hosted the land transfer debate for decades.

Kindra McQuillan is an editorial intern at High Country News.
 

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