First news on Wyoming elk special fee applications

Guess I made a mistake applying in the regular draw with max points. Took a gamble thinking it might be better odds in the regular.
 
I think the high price combined with the time they hold your money combined for this drop. Rumor is they are considering a change to the timing of the elk draw. If they didn't hold your money so long I don't think the price would have changed app numbers much.
 
marburg said:
I think the high price combined with the time they hold your money combined for this drop. Rumor is they are considering a change to the timing of the elk draw. If they didn't hold your money so long I don't think the price would have changed app numbers much.
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I hear you, the hold is nuts. Especially for all the rando guys.
 
I really don't believe the vast majority of Average Joe nonres are going to suddenly change their mind and be able to afford special price tags. If they do, they likely will pay for a more expensive tag and get completely out of the Wyo pref fee/draw game.

My guess is that draw odds for high demand limited tags may fluctuate and even out. Less desirable tags and units will likely have gaps. Most nonres will ask themselves if it's really worth it to pay high prices and wait years to draw tags to harvest mediocre critters in less desirable units.

What happens if 90/10 ever happens for d/e/a. If 90/10 does happen and 1/2 of tags are stripped from nonres and it takes 2 x longer to draw tags you can be assured that nonres will drop out of the Wyo draw/pref pt game like flies! Wyo res better be prepared to step up and pay a major chunk higher fees to make up for these losses if the WG&F wants to relish the same revenue of year's past.

As I've been saying all along, the price to hunt and accumulate pref pts may end up biting the WG&F in the butt! Every nonres considers the cost of a nonres license, the price to gain a pref pt, and the number of years it takes to draw limited tags. This may not matter as much to outfitted hunters; however, impacts the Average Joe nonres and his decision to apply/draw tags and drop out of the game in future years.

My guess is that in the long run there will be fewer nonres young hunters and hunters just starting out applying for tags and paying pref pt fees and willing to invest the price and years it takes to draw expensive nonres Wyo tags. The WG&F will obviously loose easy pref pt $ over time for all big game species (sheep, moose, elk, deer, and antelope).

When you add up multiple species pref pt losses the lost revenue adds up. Will the high license fee prices make up for this lost revenue to the WG&F?

It's obvious from outfitter conversations at the Task Force meetings that some outfitters could care less what happens to the Average Joe hunter and WG&F revenue as long as their customers draw more tags. They definitely have gotten their way with the guide in wilderness law and fee hikes! What's next and where is the line drawn?
 
marburg said:
I think the high price combined with the time they hold your money combined for this drop. Rumor is they are considering a change to the timing of the elk draw. If they didn't hold your money so long I don't think the price would have changed app numbers much.
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I honestly don't believe the time they hold the money impacts many people applying. The interest on $2000 over that period is $30 if you pulled it from a money market- and nobody does that. So it's more like $5. And if one is willing to pay that amount for an elk tag, what's the big deal about them holding the money?

I suppose there are a few who charge credit cards and don't pay them off, but again- they would have to pay it anyway if they draw the tag. So my 2 cents- assume you'll get a tag and the money is gone. If you don't, you get a $2000 consolation prize.
 
marburg said:
I think the high price combined with the time they hold your money combined for this drop. Rumor is they are considering a change to the timing of the elk draw. If they didn't hold your money so long I don't think the price would have changed app numbers much.
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Since the draw was moved to May applications were still on the increase. It was pure price increase that moved the ap numbers IMO.

Many of those willing to pay the the special fee increase will reap the benefits of drawing tags this year with better odds. Congrats
 
jm77 said:
Since the draw was moved to May applications were still on the increase. It was pure price increase that moved the ap numbers IMO.

Many of those willing to pay the the special fee increase will reap the benefits of drawing tags this year with better odds. Congrats
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I hope you are wrong on max point holders applying for top tier hunts. 🤞🤞🤞🤞
 
My prediction is most high point holders will go with special, so odds won't change much. I'm just guessing though. Lower point hunts will be better in the special, maybe. But if I was wanting to hunt, I would be shelling out the cash.
 
Come spend your hard earned nonres $ in Colo! You can hunt every year for $759 as nonres! That’s a steal compared to the special $2k license fee plus wait several years and pay pref pt fees to draw.

You can hunt 2+ years in Colo for the price of 1 special Wyo elk hunt! Talk about Wyo shooting themselves in the foot!
 
jims said:
Come spend your hard earned nonres $ in Colo! You can hunt every year for $759 as nonres! That’s a steal compared to the special $2k license fee plus wait several years and pay pref pt fees to draw.

You can hunt 2+ years in Colo for the price of 1 special Wyo elk hunt! Talk about Wyo shooting themselves in the foot!
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Yea and it would take you about 9 years worth of points to get the same quality of hunt in colorado compared to a wyo general tag what's or point?
 
jims said:
Come spend your hard earned nonres $ in Colo! You can hunt every year for $759 as nonres! That’s a steal compared to the special $2k license fee plus wait several years and pay pref pt fees to draw.

You can hunt 2+ years in Colo for the price of 1 special Wyo elk hunt! Talk about Wyo shooting themselves in the foot!
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Let's see your Colorado bull from last year.
 
Gorilla said:
right. I am not following this logic. I don't know any other western state that is charging $2000 for a general season type of elk tag where the expectation is a rag horn class bull on public land.
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Lace em up tighter.
 
They could raise the fee to $5,000 and they would still sell every decent tag. What they don't sell at $5,000 roll into the regular pool. I would rather pay more for the tag and keep the current res/nr split - paying more makes it a little harder to go 90/10 for d/e/p. You want government run like a business - sell your products for top dollar.
 
So a little perspective. One of NR buddies came on a general hunt 2 falls ago. He has 1 point in the draw. He is doing the math and rightfully so.. if the general tags take 5 years to draw. 4 points plus 1. That means at best he likely has 5 more tags. If he is lucky and hits a random he might have 6 tags. Before he is too old to get around.

If using the special gets him even 2 more tags than the regular, it is worth the extra money.

I can’t blame him. When you are looking at only hunt 5 more time, the special is not a bad way to go…
 
I've hunted Colorado 61 three times in the last five years.
I've also hunted Wyoming 55 three times in the last five years.

WY tags cost $1500 more than CO (special)

WY bulls are 30-80" bigger and the special draw is WAY worth it.

And I guess if we're talking about putting our money where our mouth is I bought a commissioner's tag this year and that's what getting to hunt in WY is worth to me....
 
jims said:
Come spend your hard earned nonres $ in Colo! You can hunt every year for $759 as nonres! That’s a steal compared to the special $2k license fee plus wait several years and pay pref pt fees to draw.

You can hunt 2+ years in Colo for the price of 1 special Wyo elk hunt! Talk about Wyo shooting themselves in the foot!
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Do what you want with your money, but are you ready to back up your talk with some details about where to go have an amazing experience? There are elk here, lots of them. Most people, residents and nonresident, have no idea how to get them. I see guys on guided hunts shooting rags and baby bucks. Go ahead and invite the world out here, I doubt it will increase the actual pressure much, with a bunch of uninformed people stomping around, getting lucky about 10 percent or less of the time.
 
elks96 buddy makes a lot of sense. I am 52 and I've only hunted elk twice on my own tag. I love it but I am late to the game so when I get 2 preference points for WY, I think it would be worth it to go special if I draw a year or 2 earlier. It is worth a try and them holding $2K isn't that much of an inconvenience to me. I'll just make my wife work more.....simple.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
I honestly don't believe the time they hold the money impacts many people applying. The interest on $2000 over that period is $30 if you pulled it from a money market- and nobody does that. So it's more like $5. And if one is willing to pay that amount for an elk tag, what's the big deal about them holding the money?

I suppose there are a few who charge credit cards and don't pay them off, but again- they would have to pay it anyway if they draw the tag. So my 2 cents- assume you'll get a tag and the money is gone. If you don't, you get a $2000 consolation prize.
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??
There are more costs for the higher priced tag than $5 for them to hold your money for 4 months.
The 2.5% processing fee alone for the special priced tag is $49.13.
 
SDBugler said:
??
There are more costs for the higher priced tag than $5 for them to hold your money for 4 months.
The 2.5% processing fee alone for the special priced tag is $49.13.
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Ya, but the processing fee has nothing to do with them holding 4 months or 4 days. If you are saying they shouldn't charge up front at all, guess that's another thing altogether.

I was simply saying that I don't think the months hold discourages many people...
 
I laughed when I got to this quote in the article......

"The price increases brought Wyoming’s fees more in line with regional market value, and the application numbers should rebound, she added."

What is regional market value? What is she comparing against?

Are Wyoming elk tags worth 3x more value than AZ? Are they worth 2x more value than UT? Most elk states charge less than half of Wyoming's $1950 price for a special tag. Here is a clip from a portion of a spread sheet I did last year when they were proposing the new special tag price increase. (some prices might be outdates since the date when I put these together - but not by much)

1707764025505.png
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Ya, but the processing fee has nothing to do with them holding 4 months or 4 days. If you are saying they shouldn't charge up front at all, guess that's another thing altogether.

I was simply saying that I don't think the months hold discourages many people...
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My point was that there are more costs associated with the higher tag fee than just lost interest. All costs need to be considered.
 
elks96 said:
So a little perspective. One of NR buddies came on a general hunt 2 falls ago. He has 1 point in the draw. He is doing the math and rightfully so.. if the general tags take 5 years to draw. 4 points plus 1. That means at best he likely has 5 more tags. If he is lucky and hits a random he might have 6 tags. Before he is too old to get around.

If using the special gets him even 2 more tags than the regular, it is worth the extra money.

I can’t blame him. When you are looking at only hunt 5 more time, the special is not a bad way to go…
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That’s assuming he’ll be able to draw that particular tag with 5 points for the next 20-30 years. If history has taught us anything the answer to that is a resounding “no way”. That same tag likely took 0-2 points 10 years ago to draw so it’s reasonable to assuming that it will take 10 points in 10 years and likely 15-20 in 20 years. If I was a betting man, I’d wager that if he has one point now and is in his 30-40’s he’ll likely be REAL lucky to get to hunt elk in that unit 3 more times in his life. Most likely 2. The fact of the matter is; if you’re starting from scratch as a 20-30 yr old in any unit in the west right now and it takes 10+ points this year, it’s a once in a lifetime tag as it sets.
 
SDBugler said:
My point was that there are more costs associated with the higher tag fee than just lost interest. All costs need to be considered.
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I know. Again- I was replying to another post JUST about the hold time.

No doubt the total cost discourages some people. That's how it works for sure. For those without a spare $2K, the good news is the regular prices are well in line with other states and are the majority of available tags.
 
SDBugler said:
I laughed when I got to this quote in the article......

"The price increases brought Wyoming’s fees more in line with regional market value, and the application numbers should rebound, she added."

What is regional market value? What is she comparing against?

Are Wyoming elk tags worth 3x more value than AZ? Are they worth 2x more value than UT? Most elk states charge less than half of Wyoming's $1950 price for a special tag. Here is a clip from a portion of a spread sheet I did last year when they were proposing the new special tag price increase. (some prices might be outdates since the date when I put these together - but not by much)

View attachment 136901
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Ma'am,
Looks like the RMV is 1950 as they will all sell out. Not much to compare it too since its a "special" license. Looks like you're hung up on price so maybe you should just consider the regular draw for elk in WY. Thats whats nice about WY, they have the thrifty hunter in mind. At only 692.00 thats not a bad deal. Compare it to your BS chart which should include hunting licenses for the states that require it (AZ, UT, NV...who else?)

AZ 160+665 > WY
CO $756 > WY
ID 185+651.00 >WY
MT > WY
NV 155+1,200 > WY
NM 65+773 >WY
UT 120+1,050 >WY

So if you're worried about money the regular draw in WY is your ticket to elk hunting. If you become a man historically they make more money and thus can afford special elk tag prices.
 
yotebuster17 said:
That’s assuming he’ll be able to draw that particular tag with 5 points for the next 20-30 years. If history has taught us anything the answer to that is a resounding “no way”. That same tag likely took 0-2 points 10 years ago to draw so it’s reasonable to assuming that it will take 10 points in 10 years and likely 15-20 in 20 years. If I was a betting man, I’d wager that if he has one point now and is in his 30-40’s he’ll likely be REAL lucky to get to hunt elk in that unit 3 more times in his life. Most likely 2. The fact of the matter is; if you’re starting from scratch as a 20-30 yr old in any unit in the west right now and it takes 10+ points this year, it’s a once in a lifetime tag as it sets.
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You know how many people draw a random tag in Wyoming each year?

Why should Wyoming give you more elk tags than 1-3 times in your life if you apply for hard to draw areas?

The entitled attitude NR's have is astounding.
 
Why hasn’t Wyoming raised the price of the regular license? SD brought up a good point with his chart, almost every western state charges more than WY does for a regular elk tag!

The average price of a NR elk tag in the 7 states SD mentions is $964. Seems like WY is giving away their bull tags.

And for the ladies don't worry. Instead of shooting raghorns like Gorilla mentions get some reduced priced cow tags and have at it.
 
SDBugler said:
I laughed when I got to this quote in the article......

"The price increases brought Wyoming’s fees more in line with regional market value, and the application numbers should rebound, she added."

What is regional market value? What is she comparing against?

Are Wyoming elk tags worth 3x more value than AZ? Are they worth 2x more value than UT? Most elk states charge less than half of Wyoming's $1950 price for a special tag. Here is a clip from a portion of a spread sheet I did last year when they were proposing the new special tag price increase. (some prices might be outdates since the date when I put these together - but not by much)
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Something you are missing, that to many us is the most important part- Wyoming doesn't have transferrable landowner tags like a lot of the other states mentioned. Most of us would prefer to keep it that way. The high priced special is a compromise for the outfitters but it still allows the average Joe like me to save up and buy a higher priced tag if I so choose. Seems like a great deal to me once everything is considered.
 
SS! said:
You really think these guys crying about the price have women in their lives? And if they do likely its a whale because what women would want to be with a man that can't afford a 2,000 elk tag? Could you even be called a man if you get online to cry about a price of an elk tag?
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How dare you?

First they are hit with this news,

www.bloomberg.com

It's Getting More Expensive to Have Your Period, Thanks to Inflation

Costs are soaring for components such as plastics, fluff pulp and cotton, leading to price hikes for pads and tampons
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com

then Wyo increases elk tag prices. THEY'RE ON A FIXED INCOME!
 
DaveD said:
Something you are missing, that to many us is the most important part- Wyoming doesn't have transferrable landowner tags like a lot of the other states mentioned. Most of us would prefer to keep it that way. The high priced special is a compromise for the outfitters but it still allows the average Joe like me to save up and buy a higher priced tag if I so choose. Seems like a great deal to me once everything is considered.
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Great point, thanks for sharing your perspective. I never looked at it like that before.
 
BuzzH said:
You know how many people draw a random tag in Wyoming each year?

Why should Wyoming give you more elk tags than 1-3 times in your life if you apply for hard to draw areas?

The entitled attitude NR's have is astounding.
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I wasn’t saying they should, just pointing out the reality that this giant bulge of applicants with 1-10 points is gonna create. I certainly don’t feel entitled to any NR tags. I luckily got going in the points game slightly before the average so I’ve got myself set to have 5-6 good elk tags in the next 10-15 years and I’ll fill the gaps in with other options, but I know for a fact I’ll only get one WY elk tag in my life and I’m fine with that.
 
Hey SS
What is your issue today?

First of all Wizard makes a joke (a pretty funny one too I might add) and then you have to bash him?

Then I make a comment simply stating some facts and then you call me Ma'am????

Let me address some of your other comments:

"Looks like you're hung up on price so maybe you should just consider the regular draw for elk in WY." Nope - I already applied in the special drawing. And a second Nope - I'm not hung up on price, I'm just making factual comments related to the article that was referenced in the OP

"That's what's nice about WY, they have the thrifty hunter in mind." Again - please stay on topic here. The OP was about the "special price" not the regular price. I agree WY offers different tag prices for bull tags (so does NM by the way).


"At only 692.00 thats not a bad deal." Again - please stay on topic of the OP. We are discussing the "special tag" not the regular.

"Compare it to your BS chart which should include hunting licenses for the states that require it (AZ, UT, NV...who else?)

AZ 160+665 > WY
CO $756 > WY
ID 185+651.00 >WY
MT > WY
NV 155+1,200 > WY
NM 65+773 >WY
UT 120+1,050 >WY"

OK so if you want to go down that road then you need to look at several other facts that come into play with tag costs. Here is a copy of the full spreadsheet. As you can see even before the price increase for the "special" elk tag, WY what the most expensive state to apply for and build points and was the most expensive for the tag. (PS - I used the more expensive Q/HD price in NM for the best comparison.)

1707772817169.png


"So if you're worried about money the regular draw in WY is your ticket to elk hunting. If you become a man historically they make more money and thus can afford special elk tag prices." Again - what's with the bashing? I CAN afford the special tag and almost always apply in the special for elk/deer/pronghorn.

I have never "whined or complained" about the costs of Wyoming's tags or tags in any other state - just discussed facts and opinions. Not sure why so many people think that posting on a forum is to be construed as whining / complaining.

Most posts are just comments related to the topic here. Not sure why you always have to personally bash people on this site.
 
bighamr said:
Don’t forget SD…. Buzz says you’re entitled too, we’re all just a bunch of nasty entitled NR’s😂😂
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I'm far from entitled. :ROFLMAO:

I have only had one elk tag, one pronghorn tag, and two deer tags in the 20+ years that I have applied in WY. And all of those tags were the special tags. And I left two of those tags unpunched.

I have no say in what tag prices should be. That is up to each state and it is my choice whether or not to participate. This is just a forum for discussion and to share thoughts/comments - nobody is setting policies on this website! I have no idea how much money I have invested in WY in applications, point fees, tags, etc. over the years, and I honestly don't care as long as it was put to good use by the game and fish department. Every cent I have spent over those years was more than worth it as I had some great experiences.
 
SDBugler said:
Hey SS
What is your issue today?

First of all Wizard makes a joke (a pretty funny one too I might add) and then you have to bash him?

Then I make a comment simply stating some facts and then you call me Ma'am????

Let me address some of your other comments:

"Looks like you're hung up on price so maybe you should just consider the regular draw for elk in WY." Nope - I already applied in the special drawing. And a second Nope - I'm not hung up on price, I'm just making factual comments related to the article that was referenced in the OP

"That's what's nice about WY, they have the thrifty hunter in mind." Again - please stay on topic here. The OP was about the "special price" not the regular price. I agree WY offers different tag prices for bull tags (so does NM by the way).


"At only 692.00 thats not a bad deal." Again - please stay on topic of the OP. We are discussing the "special tag" not the regular.

"Compare it to your BS chart which should include hunting licenses for the states that require it (AZ, UT, NV...who else?)

AZ 160+665 > WY
CO $756 > WY
ID 185+651.00 >WY
MT > WY
NV 155+1,200 > WY
NM 65+773 >WY
UT 120+1,050 >WY"

OK so if you want to go down that road then you need to look at several other facts that come into play with tag costs. Here is a copy of the full spreadsheet. As you can see even before the price increase for the "special" elk tag, WY what the most expensive state to apply for and build points and was the most expensive for the tag. (PS - I used the more expensive Q/HD price in NM for the best comparison.)

View attachment 136915

"So if you're worried about money the regular draw in WY is your ticket to elk hunting. If you become a man historically they make more money and thus can afford special elk tag prices." Again - what's with the bashing? I CAN afford the special tag and almost always apply in the special for elk/deer/pronghorn.

I have never "whined or complained" about the costs of Wyoming's tags or tags in any other state - just discussed facts and opinions. Not sure why so many people think that posting on a forum is to be construed as whining / complaining.

Most posts are just comments related to the topic here. Not sure why you always have to personally bash people on this site.
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First off I didn't bash wizzy. I like him a lot, he doesn't get on here and cry all day. @Wiszard if you took that as a bash I'm sorry.

Using regular price tags vs the special in WY is BS. Like your 2nd table you made too. Thats assuming someone puts in for all 3. Do those states let you split it up? Nope. The bias in your two tables is trying to mislead people on the price increase. Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A.

You want to focus on the facts but you most misleading and false information...so yeah no thanks ma'am.

Depending on time of month I suppose you could either get offended by my comments above or let it slide. I'm sorry, it did come off as a little abrasive.
 
SS! said:
First off I didn't bash wizzy. I like him a lot, he doesn't get on here and cry all day. @Wiszard if you took that as a bash I'm sorry.

Using regular price tags vs the special in WY is BS. Like your 2nd table you made too. Thats assuming someone puts in for all 3. Do those states let you split it up? Nope. The bias in your two tables is trying to mislead people on the price increase. Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A.

Depending on time of month I suppose you could either get offended by my comments above or let it slide. I'm sorry, it did come off as a little abrasive.
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@SS!....I can't talk right now. I am sitting with my therapy dog drinking my herbal tea trying to hold myself together. :)
 
SS! said:
Why hasn’t Wyoming raised the price of the regular license? SD brought up a good point with his chart, almost every western state charges more than WY does for a regular elk tag!

The average price of a NR elk tag in the 7 states SD mentions is $964. Seems like WY is giving away their bull tags.

And for the ladies don't worry. Instead of shooting raghorns like Gorilla mentions get some reduced priced cow tags and have at it.
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SS
I'm not going to bash you with name calling but since you brought up how "cheap" the cost is for Wyoming's "regular" bull elk tag, I quickly updated the spread sheet for the "regular" price and also changed NM to include their S tag and not the Q/HD tag cost.
As you can see WY isn't such a great deal as you claim. They are are only average (4th most expensive out of the 8 states I compared). And they are the 3rd most expensive out of 8 states if someone is applying for all three species.

I might have missed some costs here or there when I put this together last year, but i think I captured most everything. I put this spreadsheet together for myself last year when the price increase was being considered. I wanted to get a better understanding of what the real costs were like in the states that my family applies in.

Again, I'm not whining/complaining. Just stating facts.

1707776324552.png
 
I've gotten more tags in Wyoming as a NR than I have in Arizona as a resident in the past 30 years- that's elk, deer and antelope. Wyoming has been generous to me. And yep- I always do Special to make sure I can go when the odds are in my favor. Of course, growing up in Wyoming and having family there was a major motivator!
 
BuzzH said:
Why should Wyoming give you more elk tags than 1-3 times in your life if you apply for hard to draw areas?

The entitled attitude NR's have is astounding.
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The example used by elks96 and replied to by yotebuster17 above was for the general areas.
If those are regarded as "hard to draw areas", what easy to draw areas would you be referring to?
 
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SS

"Using regular price tags vs the special in WY is BS. Like your 2nd table you made too. Thats assuming someone puts in for all 3. Do those states let you split it up? Nope. The bias in your two tables is trying to mislead people on the price increase. Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A.

You want to focus on the facts but you most misleading and false information...so yeah no thanks ma'am."

Sorry if you felt my information was misleading. The topic was the cost of "special" tags. That is why my facts were based on the costs of special tags and not regular tags or cow tags. I even used NM's higher priced Q/HD tag for comparison. In my posting #54 I updated the spreadsheet for "regular cost" bull tags in those same states to give a realistic comparison.

Yes - in NM and AZ I divided the cost of the required hunting license between three species. But that cost could increase or decrease if you applied for more or fewer species. My spreadsheet was put together last year when WY was considering increasing the special fee for E/A/D and so that is why I based my calculations on just those three species.

I'm not sure I understand your comment "Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A." ALL of these costs are for NR's in each of the states and doesn't include any resident costs for any state. Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
 
SDBugler said:
SS
I'm not going to bash you with name calling but since you brought up how "cheap" the cost is for Wyoming's "regular" bull elk tag, I quickly updated the spread sheet for the "regular" price and also changed NM to include their S tag and not the Q/HD tag cost.
As you can see WY isn't such a great deal as you claim. They are are only average (4th most expensive out of the 8 states I compared). And they are the 3rd most expensive out of 8 states if someone is applying for all three species.

I might have missed some costs here or there when I put this together last year, but i think I captured most everything. I put this spreadsheet together for myself last year when the price increase was being considered. I wanted to get a better understanding of what the real costs were like in the states that my family applies in.

Again, I'm not whining/complaining. Just stating facts.

View attachment 136923
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What are you calling general license? You mean the big game license required to apply? I thought you meant that was the resident cost (i see what you did now) so my N/A comment is...N/A ;) But you can't split up the burden of buying the license for states like AZ, UT, NM and NV to all species. You're assuming everyone is putting for all 3 which is not a true actual cost.

Revise for current tag costs and stop the BS of splitting between all 3 species. And then let me know how much better of a deal WY is.

Also to help you out don't forget to factor in conservation stamps and habitat stamps required by the states. WY factored in if you haven't should help out your cause.

Thanks!
 
SDBugler said:
SS

"Using regular price tags vs the special in WY is BS. Like your 2nd table you made too. Thats assuming someone puts in for all 3. Do those states let you split it up? Nope. The bias in your two tables is trying to mislead people on the price increase. Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A.

You want to focus on the facts but you most misleading and false information...so yeah no thanks ma'am."

Sorry if you felt my information was misleading. The topic was the cost of "special" tags. That is why my facts were based on the costs of special tags and not regular tags or cow tags. I even used NM's higher priced Q/HD tag for comparison. In my posting #54 I updated the spreadsheet for "regular cost" bull tags in those same states to give a realistic comparison.

Yes - in NM and AZ I divided the cost of the required hunting license between three species. But that cost could increase or decrease if you applied for more or fewer species. My spreadsheet was put together last year when WY was considering increasing the special fee for E/A/D and so that is why I based my calculations on just those three species.

I'm not sure I understand your comment "Even such little data points where special doesn't apply to residents you put a 0 instead of a N/A." ALL of these costs are for NR's in each of the states and doesn't include any resident costs for any state. Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
Click to expand...
I used the MB price of 774 for NM btw. Why wouldn't I? Gotta push the narrative....
 
Mbogo said:
The example used by elks96 and replied to by yotebuster17 above was for the general areas.
If those are regarded as "hard to draw areas", what easy to draw areas would you be referring to?
Click to expand...
Do your homework.

If you've only drawn 1-2 general tags here, its one of a couple/few things:

1. You just started applying
2. You only bought points.
3. You're a loser.
 
Dear Arizona,
Since I only received an elk tag in your 2024 drawing I would like to only pay for 1/3 of the hunting license. Nothing personal, I just have a point to make against Wyoming. Still confused? Well so am I,

Respectfully,

Ernesto Lopez
 
Mbogo said:
Belligerent isn't a quality most people strive to exude, but you are far from most.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my NR friends and 18 year old NR nephew have only hunted bull elk here once.

I'll remind them, since someone on MM told them so.

Good grief.
 
SS! said:
Dear Arizona,
Since I only received an elk tag in your 2024 drawing I would like to only pay for 1/3 of the hunting license. Nothing personal, I just have a point to make against Wyoming. Still confused? Well so am I,

Respectfully,

Ernesto Lopez
Click to expand...

Dear Erny,

We so apologize for your inconvenience of receiving an AZ elk tag. To make things right, we are refunding you the entire amount, and hope you enjoy your Wyoming hunting experiences. HH61 will now receive your tag. Muhahahahaha...

All Due Respect,

Arizona
 
Wiszard said:
@SS!....I can't talk right now. I am sitting with my therapy dog drinking my herbal tea trying to hold myself together. :)
Click to expand...
Hey Wisz! Maybe we should carpool from CA and cut gas costs in half..$500 each vs $1000 depending on how much road hunting we do. The $500 savings would put a dent the special price increase. Heck, camp instead of hotel/air bnb and Wyoming special is right in line with the cost for just about any western hunt….

In all seriousness when tag fees go up I camp more, work an extra shift, drive with buddies…it’s really a small percentage in the overall cost of being a western hunter.
 
willfrye027 said:
Hey Wisz! Maybe we should carpool from CA and cut gas costs in half..$500 each vs $1000 depending on how much road hunting we do. The $500 savings would put a dent the special price increase. Heck, camp instead of hotel/air bnb and Wyoming special is right in line with the cost for just about any western hunt….

In all seriousness when tag fees go up I camp more, work an extra shift, drive with buddies…it’s really a small percentage in the overall cost of being a western hunter.
Click to expand...
You sir are a man. I bet you have a wife too?






If not please say yes, I have to prove my point
 
willfrye027 said:
Hey Wisz! Maybe we should carpool from CA and cut gas costs in half..$500 each vs $1000 depending on how much road hunting we do. The $500 savings would put a dent the special price increase. Heck, camp instead of hotel/air bnb and Wyoming special is right in line with the cost for just about any western hunt….

In all seriousness when tag fees go up I camp more, work an extra shift, drive with buddies…it’s really a small percentage in the overall cost of being a western hunter.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a plan! Lets take your vehicle...I won't be able to afford tires if I go special! LOL!
You start at Marian yet?
 
I really don’t see the point of complaining/whining about the special fee increase. If a person doesn’t think it’s worth the special price at least they still have the option of regular fee.
I will be applying in the special with hopes of increased odds and will pay the price. Hell people take family vacations to Hawaii for 20K and think that’s a great deal. To each their own.
 
SDBugler said:
I laughed when I got to this quote in the article......

"The price increases brought Wyoming’s fees more in line with regional market value, and the application numbers should rebound, she added."

What is regional market value? What is she comparing against?

Are Wyoming elk tags worth 3x more value than AZ? Are they worth 2x more value than UT? Most elk states charge less than half of Wyoming's $1950 price for a special tag. Here is a clip from a portion of a spread sheet I did last year when they were proposing the new special tag price increase. (some prices might be outdates since the date when I put these together - but not by much)

View attachment 136901
Click to expand...
What was the non-special cost in WY? We cashed out our few WY deer points last year in the special because we wanted to hunt, and we didn't want to spend the extra this year.
 
nfh said:
I just want to thank everyone.

Reading through these post and threads helps me get through my day at work.

THANK YOU!!!!!
Click to expand...
Dear Wyoming Resident,
Unfortunately everytime a NR cries about WY the wind blows a little harder. Hold on to your hat.

with peace,

Earth
 
SS! said:
Dear Wyoming Resident,
Unfortunately everytime a NR cries about WY the wind blows a little harder. Hold on to your hat.

with peace,

Earth
Click to expand...

Might need some more crying. It's been 40 degrees and haven't seen wind for awhile.

But I feel a storm is brewing
 
Yes the special has increased, the regular will increase next if I was a betting man! And it will be soon too is my guess. But I don't know much, at least that is what my wife says!!! :oops:
 
Does anyone know the prices of elk tags in 1995? I want to make a chart showing those prices compared to the new special prices for Wyoming. Really show the masses how badly Wyoming is bending over us NR!!!
 
The oldest license I could find was 2004. It was $880. With inflation (CPI) over that 20 year period the cost would now be $1445. Damnit- I want my $500 back!!

Wait.... on second thought I'll take the license...
 
SS! said:
Dear Arizona,
Since I only received an elk tag in your 2024 drawing I would like to only pay for 1/3 of the hunting license. Nothing personal, I just have a point to make against Wyoming. Still confused? Well so am I,

Respectfully,

Ernesto Lopez
Click to expand...
Dear Ms Lopez
(we will assume you are not a Mrs since you apparently have very limited reading/comprehension skills and no real man would want to marry you)

Unfortunately, we will not be able to to refund your money at this time.
Had you read and correctly understood Arizona's big game draw requirements and application process, you would have known that if you had bought your 2023 Combination Hunt & Fish License on the right date when you applied for elk/pronghorn in 2023 that your 2023 Combination Hunt & Fish License could still be valid when you applied for elk & pronghorn in 2024 and you would have not had to purchase that same license again until the sheep/deer application period. However thank you for your "early" donation this year!

Now since you have limited reasoning skills, I would like to explain that the $160 Combination Hunt & Fish License is also valid for your sheep/deer applications and also for your bison/turkey applications later this year. You will not need to send us another donation when applying for those species later this summer.

Also let me explain to you that along with the cost of that $160 donation we will award you bonus points for the above mentioned species at no additional charge if you so choose and if you are not drawn. You will not need to send us another check in the fall for $274 to purchase points for sheep ($150), elk ($52), deer ($41), and pronghorn (($31). So let me explain to you that you are getting a hell of deal when you consider the "Regional Market Value" of $274 for the one low price of $160. In case math wasn't taught to you very well or maybe you skipped school that day, $160 is less than $274. We will also not be charging you an additional 2.5% credit card fee when making your annual donations.

Sincerely
Arizona

PS - We hope we can rely on you for your continued donation of $160 again next spring. If not, and you feel this is too expensive for your limited income, then you can simply pound some Wyoming sand and choose not to play in our state.
 
SDBugler said:
Dear Ms Lopez
(we will assume you are not a Mrs since you apparently have very limited reading/comprehension skills and no real man would want to marry you)

Unfortunately, we will not be able to to refund your money at this time.
Had you read and correctly understood Arizona's big game draw requirements and application process, you would have known that if you had bought your 2023 Combination Hunt & Fish License on the right date when you applied for elk/pronghorn in 2023 that your 2023 Combination Hunt & Fish License could still be valid when you applied for elk & pronghorn in 2024 and you would have not had to purchase that same license again until the sheep/deer application period. However thank you for your "early" donation this year!

Now since you have limited reasoning skills, I would like to explain that the $160 Combination Hunt & Fish License is also valid for your sheep/deer applications and also for your bison/turkey applications later this year. You will not need to send us another donation when applying for those species later this summer.

Also let me explain to you that along with the cost of that $160 donation we will award you bonus points for the above mentioned species at no additional charge if you so choose and if you are not drawn. You will not need to send us another check in the fall for $274 to purchase points for sheep ($150), elk ($52), deer ($41), and pronghorn (($31). So let me explain to you that you are getting a hell of deal when you consider the "Regional Market Value" of $274 for the one low price of $160. In case math wasn't taught to you very well or maybe you skipped school that day, $160 is less than $274. We will also not be charging you an additional 2.5% credit card fee when making your annual donations.

Sincerely
Arizona

PS - We hope we can rely on you for your continued donation of $160 again next spring. If not, and you feel this is too expensive for your limited income, then you can simply pound some Wyoming sand and choose not to play in our state.
Click to expand...
I didn’t read the whole thing (maybe later) but do you not buy a new big game license before your hunt starts? Wow. Bold move cotton
 
Based on the article and the sentiment of most non-res hunters on this thread, the special price increase is nothing short of a smashing success. Almost all of the NR posts on this thread are happy to pay the special price and would gladly pay more to hunt elk in WY if that means hunting elk in WY more often. The fact that the WGFD almost doubled the price and only lost a faction of demand proves the the extremely low price elasticity of demand for hunting elk in the west.

This only question now is why stop at $2000? So much money is being left on the table by the WGFD. If they were smart, they would create a third tag tier (maybe call it the "celestial" tag) and charge like $10-15k for that elk tag draw.

I am sure the fish and game departments of all the western state are watching this very closely. WY has set the new standard for western states to charge NR elk hunters $2000 for general season elk tags on public land units with unlimited resident tags for the same unit.
 
Gorilla said:
This only question now is why stop at $2000? So much money is being left on the table by the WGFD. If they were smart, they would create a third tag tier (maybe call it the "celestial" tag) and charge like $10-15k for that elk tag draw.
Click to expand...
You just described the landowner tag system is almost all the other states.

Are you happy now? Let me guess " you're fine".

Us married men know what that means.
 
SDBugler said:
I'm far from entitled. :ROFLMAO:

I have only had one elk tag, one pronghorn tag, and two deer tags in the 20+ years that I have applied in WY. And all of those tags were the special tags. And I left two of those tags unpunched.

I have no say in what tag prices should be. That is up to each state and it is my choice whether or not to participate. This is just a forum for discussion and to share thoughts/comments - nobody is setting policies on this website! I have no idea how much money I have invested in WY in applications, point fees, tags, etc. over the years, and I honestly don't care as long as it was put to good use by the game and fish department. Every cent I have spent over those years was more than worth it as I had some great experiences.
Click to expand...
SD, I'm wanting some info on SD nonresident elk hunts. Can you point me in the right direction. Asking for a friend...
 
If I understand correctly, any Special $2000 tag that isn't drawn goes into the regular draw. So there is really no reason WY couldn't allocate ALL NR tags to the Special draw. Sell as many as they can at that price, and if they don't sell, well, they can still sell them all for $900(I'm not sure of the regular price.)
 
grosventrehunter said:
SD, I'm wanting some info on SD nonresident elk hunts. Can you point me in the right direction. Asking for a friend...
Click to expand...
GVH
There are currently no state issued elk tags for NR's in SD.
There are some tribal hunts that offer non-members to hunt elk.

I don't agree with that one bit. And in fact, years ago I spoke to the commission and voiced my opinion that elk tags SHOULD be available to NR's.
It makes no sense to me that there are no state issued NR elk tags when there are a few hundred total tags issued to residents and the vast majority are on hunted on either National Forest lands or BLM lands. Granted the vast majority of residents wait a minimum of 15 years to draw a tag but still with the number of tags available, a few should be offered to NR's. When we do get lucky enough to draw a bull tag it costs either $175 or $306 plus $10 every year for a points. (you can trust me - I have numerous issues with how SD conducts it's big game draws)
In contrast there are only 10 state issued BH sheep tags available to residents yet they allow one additional tag to be auctioned off to anyone (res or NR). They also have only 8 trophy bison tags and only reserve 2 for residents and open the other 6 to both R's and NR's. They also have 8 non-trophy bull bison tags and offer 1 to NR's. The bison hunts are conducted on "state owned" land and not NF or BLM.
 
SDBugler said:
GVH
There are currently no state issued elk tags for NR's in SD.
There are some tribal hunts that offer non-members to hunt elk.

I don't agree with that one bit. And in fact, years ago I spoke to the commission and voiced my opinion that elk tags SHOULD be available to NR's.
It makes no sense to me that there are no state issued NR elk tags when there are a few hundred total tags issued to residents and the vast majority are on hunted on either National Forest lands or BLM lands. Granted the vast majority of residents wait a minimum of 15 years to draw a tag but still with the number of tags available, a few should be offered to NR's. When we do get lucky enough to draw a bull tag it costs either $175 or $306 plus $10 every year for a points. (you can trust me - I have numerous issues with how SD conducts it's big game draws)
In contrast there are only 10 state issued BH sheep tags available to residents yet they allow one additional tag to be auctioned off to anyone (res or NR). They also have only 8 trophy bison tags and only reserve 2 for residents and open the other 6 to both R's and NR's. They also have 8 non-trophy bull bison tags and offer 1 to NR's. The bison hunts are conducted on "state owned" land and not NF or BLM.
Click to expand...
I think he was being a smarta55…
 
BuzzH said:
You know how many people draw a random tag in Wyoming each year?

Why should Wyoming give you more elk tags than 1-3 times in your life if you apply for hard to draw areas?

The entitled attitude NR's have is astounding.
Click to expand...
The entitled attitude some NRs have is astounding.

Fixed that for you :).

I do reserve the right to complain about preference point systems when the rules are altered mid game. Wyoming moose preference scheme was one of the worst. The State of Wyoming should at least send me a hat or bumper sticker "I spent $$$$ on moose points and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker".
 
Iowan said:
The entitled attitude some NRs have is astounding.

Fixed that for you :).

I do reserve the right to complain about preference point systems when the rules are altered mid game. Wyoming moose preference scheme was one of the worst. The State of Wyoming should at least send me a hat or bumper sticker "I spent $$$$ on moose points and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker".
Click to expand...
I'm being sincere here; call the Cheyenne office and speak to administration and tell them. Go at least as high as Deputy Director. You will get nowhere here.
 
I have a call into

John Kennedy​

Deputy Director (internal operations)​

My hope is to have a real conversation about making some change that allows non-resident moose point holders to exit with some dignity:

Covert it to a bonus point system.

Let us convert the moose points to other species at a 5:1 ratio.

Give us $ credit toward buying other points - 50%?

Stop selling moose non-resident moose points all together - the people with less than 18 have zero chance to draw the bonus tags.

In their defense with thousands of people not understanding the math and continuing to buy preference points for moose they have no incentive to make any adjustments.

Can't hurt to ask! I know I will get nowhere here but at least then I can go back to complaining online with a story about how I tried. :)
 
Iowan said:
I have a call into

John Kennedy​

Deputy Director (internal operations)​

My hope is to have a real conversation about making some change that allows non-resident moose point holders to exit with some dignity:

Covert it to a bonus point system.

Let us convert the moose points to other species at a 5:1 ratio.

Give us $ credit toward buying other points - 50%?

Stop selling moose non-resident moose points all together - the people with less than 18 have zero chance to draw the bonus tags.

In their defense with thousands of people not understanding the math and continuing to buy preference points for moose they have no incentive to make any adjustments.

Can't hurt to ask! I know I will get nowhere here but at least then I can go back to complaining online with a story about how I tried. :)
Click to expand...
YOU GO GIRL!!!!!
 
Iowan said:
I have a call into

John Kennedy​

Deputy Director (internal operations)​

My hope is to have a real conversation about making some change that allows non-resident moose point holders to exit with some dignity:

Covert it to a bonus point system.

Let us convert the moose points to other species at a 5:1 ratio.

Give us $ credit toward buying other points - 50%?

Stop selling moose non-resident moose points all together - the people with less than 18 have zero chance to draw the bonus tags.

In their defense with thousands of people not understanding the math and continuing to buy preference points for moose they have no incentive to make any adjustments.

Can't hurt to ask! I know I will get nowhere here but at least then I can go back to complaining online with a story about how I tried. :)
Click to expand...
We may have reached a new low on non resident griping
 
Iowan said:
I have a call into

John Kennedy​

Deputy Director (internal operations)​

My hope is to have a real conversation about making some change that allows non-resident moose point holders to exit with some dignity:

Covert it to a bonus point system.

Let us convert the moose points to other species at a 5:1 ratio.

Give us $ credit toward buying other points - 50%?

Stop selling moose non-resident moose points all together - the people with less than 18 have zero chance to draw the bonus tags.

In their defense with thousands of people not understanding the math and continuing to buy preference points for moose they have no incentive to make any adjustments.

Can't hurt to ask! I know I will get nowhere here but at least then I can go back to complaining online with a story about how I tried. :)
Click to expand...
I know John, he's a good guy and will listen. The only idea you've mentioned with a chance is the "convert to bonus point system". It was unsuccessful in last year's Legislative session and won't be brought back this year. Maybe for 2025 general session. Ask John how you could help with that.

Another idea with a chance is changing the PP/Random allocation to 50/50. Ask him about that.

At least you are getting involved.
 

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