Food for Thought if you can!

The problem is this: just like most bankers are bad businessman, most scientist are poor politicians.

Every one of those issues has a political group who use them as an issue.

And for liberals who always are so smug and cocksure that they are in the elite of thinkers this is the best paragraph in the whole article


_"In eight of 13 science-oriented issues, there was a 20-percentage-point or higher gap separating the opinions of the public and members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, according to survey work by the Pew Research Center. The gaps didn't correlate to any liberal-conservative split; the scientists at times take more traditionally conservative views and at times more liberal."

Nemont
 
I think both liberals and conservatives are often smug it's simply human nature and has little to do with where you fall on the political spectrum. Everything in this country is politicized whether it's wolves, global warming or hunting.

DW Science is sometimes wrong but it's the best we have and in my opinion it's becoming more reliable as methodology continues to improve and knowledge increases.
 
Science is theory, theories are frequently wrong. A simple example is the chicken egg. What have they told us about the egg the last 30yrs? New York was spose to get 3 ft of snow the other day, they got 4inches! How can I believe they know what our climate will b like in 50yrs?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-15 AT 07:30AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-15 AT 07:27?AM (MST)

DW, not all science is theory. It may start out as theory but much of it is provable. The earth really is round, and they really can land a rover on Mars.

Where you have to be careful is the science that starts out with a conclusion and then seeks out evidence to back up that conclusion. Here's an example. IMO

Conclusion: We need to raise taxes and control the out of control masses. There is "evidence" that the earth is cooling. Oops, that won't work. Then there is evidence the earth is warming. That might work. Now the evidence is climate change. That should work better. A high school computer geek could make a computer model that comes to the conclusion that it's true. Especially if they fudge the numbers and insert data that leads to the desired conclusion.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
The forecast of 2 to 3 feet of snow also came with another weather model which could occur if climatic models changed and that's what happened. You are confusing a forecast model with a discipline they are not the same.

Do you believe in any of the wildlife management science or is that all incorrect and politically motivated as well. You do realize that the science of game management is how we establish game seasons and quotas as well.

Try reading something such as Carl Sagan. The Demon-Haunted World. Science As A candle In The Dark. Or just travel to an area that doesn't have scientific explanations New Guinea, parts of Africa, South America or Appalachia in the U. S..
 
Corn those are scientific theories we have applied and gathered actual real data. Weve figured out what does and doesnt work in wildlife management due to applying theories and gathering data in actuality, not with a model. Data gathered from a model is still just a theory until it's applied. Most of the "science" we discuss here is theory but some would have us believe it's data from applied scientific theories but it's not. It's simply theories derived from models. The weather models u speak of are the European and American model and they're typically in disagreement with each other. And the percent that they're right is not something I'd stake my life on. That goes double for the climate models 97% seem to agree on....it's just theory till its applied.
 
Corn, wildlife management science is very politically motivated and I learned that straight from the horses mouth. In the deer hunting zone where I live, there is a 3% success rate on 8000 tags issued. This is basically one county in California. Year after year 8000 tags are issued yet the success rate stays the same or goes plus or minus 1%.

About a year ago I was able to speak to a DFW biologist and I asked him why if the success rate is so low that so many tags are still issued. He informed me (off the record of course) that his job is basically bullshit because he studies the health of the herd and makes recommendations to the F&G commission about tag numbers, seasons, etc.

The F&G commission is a group of 5 people that are appointed by the Governor and are tasked with many things but most importantly regulating seasons, bag limits, etc. The biologist told me that he has repeatedly recommended lower tag numbers for this zone but it falls on deaf ears because the money generated by the tags does not go directly back into the DFW, it goes into the general fund first.

He also disagrees with the ban on mountain lion hunting and also more recently the ban on using dogs to hunt bears. He says that we are helping to ensure a robust predator population which will have an impact on our deer herds.

We can't have a forest full of Hmongs, lions and bears and expect the deer herds to increase or even stay the same for that matter. So the bottom line is that in California, there is no science in wildlife management, it's all about the money.

The ultimate goal however is to eliminate hunting altogether but for something like this to happen you have to take baby steps. The baby steps are:

1) Make hunting more expensive through regulation (lead bullet ban, tag/license fee increases every year, etc.)

2) Make hunting more difficult by increasing the competition for the prey. (increase predators, reduce access, make zones that are more populated with deer a lottery, etc.)

3) Get to the point that tag/license fees aren't worth the 1% - 2% success rate and/or declare the herds endangered and bye bye deer hunting.

Now 2 of these 3 have already happened and number 3 is happening slowly but surely with tag/license fee increases every year and 3% success rates. None of this is based on science whatsoever so the answer to your question is no, wildlife management is not based on science it is based on politics. What's really crazy is that the biologist that I spoke to wasn't willing to speak out about how his "science" isn't used by the F&G Commission because he really likes his job. So he does everything his job description tells him to do and then sends along a recommendation to a group of libtards of changes that should be made and his work is done.

When scientists have a fear of losing money, they will either have findings that agree with the agenda or they will not stir the pot if they don't.
 
Sadly Forkie I believe you are correct an in a lot of cases politics does rule over sound scientific management. I guess you just have to hope in the end empirical scientific data wins out. Probably wishful thinking.
 
Cornhusker if enough liberals are elected to your state law makers in Nebraska, you will be seeing the same effects on hunting that we see now in CA.
I also have talked with a fish & game biologist in my area and he told me that same thing that was told to Forkie. This biologist told me that our state wildlife board will not listen to their own field biologist members. In fact that board even changed the name from CA. Fish & Game to CA. Fish & Wildlife because they did not like that connection to hunting by using the term "game".
This is the same board that voted their President off the board because he dared to take part in a legal mountain lion hunt out of state that complied with all game laws in that state.

We can thank the left wing liberal law makers that suggest to our liberal governor who gets appointed to that board. The same law makers that keeps getting voted back in by the liberals we have on the Coast and L.A. and San Francisco area of our state.

Just keep voting for those liberals and you will see the effects down the line you may not like so much.

RELH
 
"Get plenty of exercise!" Well wait now "theyre" sayin too much jogging is as bad as too much couch time.
 

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