For the Enviromental do Gooders

202typical

Long Time Member
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In my opinion this is about a big a scam as Algores Carbon Offsets.


Prius vs. Hummer

By Chris Demorro

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ?green car? is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius?s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?dead zone? around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius? battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.

?The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,? said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ?nickel foam.? From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius?s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called ?Dust to Dust,? the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
 
did you ever see the first computers? how about those calculators from the early 70's? it all has to start someplace, the key is to keep it going. If not for the doomsdayers who think life is over without hummers, we would be getting 50mpg in all of our rigs. . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-07 AT 01:01PM (MST)[p]>did you ever see the first
>computers? how about those
>calculators from the early 70's?
> it all has to
>start someplace, the key is
>to keep it going.
>If not for the doomsdayers
>who think life is over
>without hummers, we would be
>getting 50mpg in all of
>our rigs. . .

Good point, but the inventors of the calculator never claimed that it was environmentally superior to the abacus....

Andy
 
TFinal,
You nailed it..... I for one am not willing to give up my full - size 4X4 no matter what the cost of fuel is and that's the problem. Thank goodness for forward looking people that are working on alternatives, sooner or later they will come up with a viable, efficient power source.

RUS
 
T and Rus you guys missed or chose to ignore the crux of the article.
Auto makers are claiming how enviromentaly friendly these cars are when they are far far far from it. I could give a crap if they are making the car and it aint there yet eviromentaly, but call a spade a spade for crying out loud. Don't dupe folks into thinking its friendly when it's not. Part two of that is if your going to go green with your next car do the research before you become a bigger polluter than you all ready are.

The libs are all, "look at me I am so superior to you, I am saving the planet, I drive a Prius and I care." friggin morons is what they are.
 
sounds like the right-wingers still are trying to sell corn to the oil companies. . . LOL Bush and his lobby got sucked in to that hook line and sinker. . .

02, the point still is that it's new technology, the author was fishing with a red herring and you bit. It's also a sales pitch. is there any other way? I'm not defending them, but you know as well as anyone, energy is not created nor destroyed it just moves around. . .
 
Yes but it is the hypocrasy that makes it so entertaining. Libs and enviromentalist and vegitarians and other do gooders, their hypocracy knows no bounds. Their elitest attitude is a bunch of crap.
 
so is this really about attitude or is it about resource management? You know 02, I could really care less if the right or the left are pompas or better or whatever, i'm into issues and solutions. check your bleeding heart at the door, then come on in.. . .


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
It is all about the hipocracy of the left, and just how wrong they are on just about every issue. They let emotions rule instead of logic. I simply enjoy pointing that out.

Look the left goes around like they have the moral high ground when it comes to the enviroment when in fact they don't. These same folks that drive the Prius believe they are helping the enviroment when the exact opposite is true, they make the same argument against hunting, fishing, guns and I could go on and on. When hit with the facts on any one of these issues the left is WRONG. Then again I love pointing this out.

I am surprised Dude has not chimed in on this one after his Prius purchase from a couple of months ago. LMAO
 
202 just how does a hybrid car hurt the environment? this should be good. the more people that drive eco type cars the better, less polution and lower demand for oil means lower prices for the fuel I use in my F-350. you must have a huge inferiority complex or feel guilty if a granola in a dorky looking hybrid car gets you wound up. so what, they're not hurting anyone and they just may be helping you and the environment. if driving those cars makes them feel better than you so be it, if you drive a little peice of crap like that you need something to make you feel good about your life. just relax.
 
I guess I will be in the minority. I am a conservative
and I will probably buy a Prius lol......

Bottom line, it uses less gas!
 
DUDE YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT READ THE ARTICLE!!!

Glad to see you respond I was getting a little misty when I had seen I had posted 3 times and no wise cracks from you. My day just would not be right if I did not have you there to follow every post I make. :)

Here is a pic of my fuel miser :)
 
Sorry forgot the pic

467032955a0c5ddb.jpg
 
202;
It might help if you look at this way. toyota will have to sell their hybrid cars in order for them to continue to do research and finally end up with a hybrid that will save gas dollars and put less pollution in the air, and be reasonable in cost.
As it now stands, that point has not been reached, and tack on the very high price, a buyer will not see any savings during the lifetime of the car. but there will be a time that the improvements will take place though customer demand.
I say let the idiots, who think they are saving money via less gas cost, and lower pollution, which may be doubtful at this point, buy all those hybrids now. Later down the line after extensive improvement, we can buy one at better cost and be sure we are getting a real hybrid that meets pollution standards like they should be met. Not sale hype for the dimwitted liberal persons who are a sucker for the hype and want bragging rights on how they are saving the world. I call them Al Gore Juniors.
Until then, I will keep our two Mercury Grand Marquis, they get 28mpg on the freeway, my Ford F250 Diesel that gets 17-18 mpg, 14 mpg when I am pulling our RV.
202, did you notice that Tfinal did not come back when I answered his bringing up using fire to control underbrush statement. I guess he found out that it was his enviromental liberal friends that opposed the use of fire in National Forests to control heavy underbrush. That is another he can not blame on Bush or the "Right" side.

RELH
 
202 I read the article but I'm not sure all his facts would check out. I'm sure there's some truth to it but things like the hummer being good for 300k miles is a strech, my friends is a peice of crap with 53k on it so I'l bet there's more streches to be found if you did some research. the point is if someone wants to drive one of those things that's their right, I agree they're not going to save any money but if it makes them feel good who cares. a few stupid primitive eco cars aren't going to matter at all in the big picture, this is just a step in the development of true eco vehicles that we may someday all drive, that would be awful wouldn't it?
 
O2, is that really what you drive? It's all coming together now. . . LOL It is a nice looking pickup though. . .
 
02, I dont think anyone missed your point, however, we are moving on to where this whole matter goes.

If you're pointing out the hypocrisy, fine, youre the master, no one ever would have noticed if not for your rants, lest move along to something worth debating - we all know that if youre into politics or current events, we wade around in hypocrisy all day long. . .
 
DUDE made a telling comment, he said, if it makes people 'feel' better, so be it. If it makes Al Gore 'feel' good to buy carbon offset credits while he flys around in a private jet, lives in a 20,000 foot home, while telling me to change how I live is typical left-wing 'mentality', I suppose it is okay.? Do as I say, not as I do. There are several studies out there that show how the 'greens' are doing more harm than good. The whole ethanol push WILL have more negatives than positives. Food shortages will be a major one. Ironically, how much habitat is 'destroyed' for a oil well compared to growing enough corn for ethanol? These 'green' autos is just one of MANY examples of 'feelings' driving policies. Look at all the restrictions put on power plants, the prevention of nuclear plants. Then think about the fact that China fires up FIVE coal plants a week. How many Hummers need to be parked to 'offset' that? The irony is thick.

PRO
 
So what, even if some people don't practice what they preach if their message is correct then they're still right. none of us have all the answers or know excactly how important it is to change our ways, maybe it's not, but trashing those who want to be more green just for the joy of it gains nothing. China is a major mess nobody's going to argue that, all we can do is ask them to improve their environmental standards because we can't force them to do anything. looking at China's slob policies as an excuse for us to sit on our thumbs is weak, sometimes it's cheaper and easier to be proactive than reactive.
 
You missed the point AGAIN! 90% of what these greens say and 99% of what they do is BULLSH#!. Saying something to make one 'feel' good, doesn't better the enviroment. That is like saying worthless gun laws that make people 'feel' safer are still good because they MAY save one life, while causing who knows what negatives. Saying outrageous claims like what Al Gore does, is like crying wolf, it falls on deaf ears when 'real' concerns are brought up. Overstating issues does NOT help the issue to be resolved rationally and reasonably!

PRO
 
Well said PRO.

Dude you talk of being proactive, but this Prius is a scam. How can you claim proactive in saving the world when you are making it worse by driving one of these earth killing cars (Prius). If these do gooders really want to make a difference then let them walk or ride a bike. But don't let some do gooder driving a Prius tell me how much more he cares about the enviroment than I do. Typical neer-do-well liberal mentality.
 

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