Forest Service Billed Me!!

M

mtnmayhem

Guest
I live in Colorado and I went with a few friends on an "annual" camping trip to a little known lake near Steamboat Springs. We get everything packed and leave the campsite. Well, unknown to us, between the time that we arrived at the lake and the time we left, the forest service cut down about five enormous dead trees and laid them right across the road blocking us in. The road is a narrow 4X4 trail that is somewhat hard to maneuver if you had to turn around. So I busted a CV axle trying to turn around - this was just bad luck and timing. Now not only are we blocked in but my car is immobile as the front wheel with the broken axle is locked up. Oh yeah, no cell phone service.

So we start walking. After a long long walk we catch up to a forest service truck. They radio in to get us a tow truck and then they had to undo their previous work by removing the gigantic trees in the road. I am then informed that the area we were camping in was CLOSED TO MOTOR VEHICLES!! This is a spot I have been camping in for eight years straight and has never been closed and we were literally only 100 or so yards past the "road closed" sticker which was about 3 inches by 3 inches. The sticker was on one of those flimsy forest service markers that stick out of the ground and it had been run over by some other idiot so you couldn't even see the damn thing unless you got out of car. Not saying I was screwed over or anything as it WAS posted and none of us saw it going in. So I had to pay $220 to get towed and it will cost me another couple hundred to fix the axle. Then the icing on the cake - A ticket from the Yampa Ranger District comes in the mail for $75 bucks.

Disclaimer - I am not complaining! I just had a bad time camping and I will now look under rocks for road closed signs. Go broncos.
 
Here's one for you....a forest ranger from Hyde Park,Ut. who will remain unnamed wrote me and me brother in law a ticket for parking our truck, in his words "60 ft over a wilderness boundary line" that was not signed at all, and we had a map and tried to explain that we were trying to follow the law to the very best of our abilites....so here's the kicker the ticket was 550.00 dollars....nice huh
 
Heard of this before? My good friend in Bozeman was sighting in his rifle last year in the woods and was cited for shooting into a live tree that was behind his target. $150.00 ticket
 
the forrest circus is a funny bunch of clowns..........lower than snake bellies....

JB
 
I have a friend that was hunting in the Escalante Grand Staircase here in Utah. It is legal to hunt there, but the greenie ranger that patrols the monument doesn't agree with it. The ranger came and checked my buddies camp and did a big circle out in the trees and found that my buddy took a dump and didn't attempt to dispose of it ?properly?. His sh!t ticket was like $600.00


oakbrush
 
Forest Service police are nothing compared to Yellowstone National Park patrolls. Park stories take up hours and hours to tell and then they are unbelievable unless a person was there to actually experience them.
 
Hey HuntnTrail,

I also got a ticket for driving in a wilderness area in Hyde Park, UT. The funniest part is that I was in a state truck, and was up there working for a USU student doing a deer study. When I talked to the Forest Service I told them that there was no sign on the road where we had driven into the wilderness, the Forest Ranger says "I don't know what road you are talking about, there is no road there". I thought they were kidding, as there was obviously a well traveled road that we were driving on, but they were dead serious. I have tons of respect for wilderness areas and love hunting and hiking in roadless areas, but that particular area was tricky (a long narrow finger of wilderness jutting out onto the top of ridge with legal roads on on it) and not clearly marked.
 
I looked everywhere and can't find sympathy for any of you. I suppose if it's questionable, THEN DON'T DO IT!!! If they are in the wrong then fight it. What do you expect them to do when you break the law? I suppose the rest of us should learn from you guys and READ REGULATIONS!!! Thanks for the help.


MR. Perfect
 
The problem is Zigga that you can't keep up with the law changes the forest service creates, It is unreal the abuse of power these poeple have for our forests, Last I checked the fedral lands that they manage are owned by the citizens of the united states. Yet why is it that they can close roads, put up gates, designate wilderness areas and whatever else they want without going through a public process to do it. These are our public lands yet we are treated like criminals for wanting to use them. Does the public abuse the land? yes a few do, but many of us cherish the land and help keep it clean and don't abuse it. Yet we are charged to camp on it, we are sited for pulling of the road, we are losing great amounts of wilderness that are only accesible to a few. We had one situation were we were unsure of were we could take our atv's to hunt. So we went to the local forest service office with our maps and clerified where we could and could not take them. Everything is good! We proceed to hunt, kill a couple of elk, proceed to get them out with our atv's (where they told us we could) on an old logging road, we are not creating new trails, And guess what, there was about 15 Forest service people waiting for us at our truck ready to arrest us for taking our atvs into a area they were not allowed. It was a set up! They proceeded to treat us like murders, and rapists, confiscating our wheelers, the elk and hand cuffing us to the truck, Fortunately we had our map that I had them sign in the office to verify we had gotten approval. When we went to see the judge he through the case out and was so disgusted with the forest service because this was not the only time this had happened in his court. The moral of the story is "bow down to the Man" because they are the "man" (at least in there eyes)
 
They do have the "bully" attitute about them...
I was hunting up in Franklin Basin a few years ago. We were using 4-wheelers and got the the sign that says 'no motorized travel allowed' or something like that. Anyway we start hiking along with a few other hunters that had pulled in when we did. Well we get a few hundred yards from the sign and we could see a guy drive around the sign and start up the trail towards us. Us and the other hunters were pissed so we just stood in the road blocking his path. Well he gets up to us and says he's a forest ranger and that someone had moved the sign to the wrong spot... blah blah blah... He was full of it because everytime I've been up there it's been in the same spot. I'm sure if we had gone around the sign and he found our bike up at the top he would have ticketed us.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-08 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p] My buddy and I were hunting the Kiabab. We decided to go into the Grand Canyon park campground to do some laundry. While we were sitting in the parking lot a ranger noticed our bows in the back of the vehicle and gave us a ticket for having a loaded weapon in our vehicle. It ended up costing 100.00.
 
I wouldn't piss on a forest Ranger's head if his hair were on fire......and I don't care what zigger thinks.

JB
 
I'm fairly familiar with the USFS in Ca. They have a deal on several National Forest out here called the adventure pass. Its like $10.00 a day to park along the road,picnic area etc...You have to buy this pass to legally park in the Forest. I have talked many forest employess including LEO's ( Law Enforcement Officers). You can plead not-guilty and request a court hearing. Chances are pretty good that the Forest won't show up. Not enough forest people to deal with small tickets, waste time in court etc... If your close to the town were the crime occured and you have the time give it a try. If the forest show up explain you situation to the judge or plead no-contest. It can't hurt.
Flycrewsupe
 
Most "forest rangers" are school teachers that need a good second job in the summer. They are seasonal only and not full time. They are not heavily trained and really don't earn a lot of money. Their main job is Campground patrol - cleaning campground bathrooms and making sure the sewage treatment plant is running. A crappy job to say the least. They are also tasked with making sure road closures are adhered to and ATV rules are followed. Most are not allowed to carry a weapon and don't have too much authority to conduct a decent investigation when they do see legitimate acts of crime being committed. So don't expect too much of them. At least that was the case with almost all the ones I worked with. There were very few full-time, year round employees of the Forest Service and most of them work in the District offices and are actually in the Forest maybe once or twice a week if that.

Sorry to hear you had a bad camping trip, it looks like you didn't have bad intentions but that your actions did warrant the ticket, at least technically. I would definitely plead my case to the judge and get as much evidence as I could, including phtos of the "road closure" signs and the "trees" cut down in the road. I would get statements from my friends that have been with me on the trips in the past and document exactly what years you have made this same trip and all the dates, etc. You may get a lenient judge. Good luck.




UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-08 AT 03:54PM (MST)[p] No our bows were not cased and he never mentioned that they needed to be. He made me unstring mine since it was a longbow. He actually started writing a few more tickets to the other hunters in the parking lot. He was about to get his a** kicked until another ranger with some common sense showed up and saved him.
The same ranger pulled us over on another occasion when our front tire touched the dirt on the side of the road while making a u-turn on the highway. He tried to get us for driving off an established road.
 
I have a friend that just got back from the Uinta?s on horses and had a few run ins with a ranger. Things that he learned which might cost him dearly.

1 - Don't put a tent within 200ft of any type of water. I knew it was 100ft but they must have changed it to 200ft. Watch then change to law so next year it will be 300ft, then 400ft and not long after that you won't be able to camp at all.

2 - You can't make a fire within a 1/4 mile of any water.

3 - Rangers will be fired if they build any type of fire, no questions asked.

4 - Rangers are not allowed to be on horses, they disturb the environment.

This came straight from the ranger that check on them EVERY DAY sometimes twice a day.

He has been going to this same place for over 30 years, and it looks the exact same as when he went there as a kid.

BTW, they were 15 miles from any roads.

A previous post talked about laws changing without anyone knowing, this is EXACTLY what is happening and we should all be concerned!!!!
 
I was camping in the Peter Sinks area last week when a young ranger of the female persuasion walked into camp. She was so nervous she could hardly speak. She checked all the atv's for registration and then told us she had to take our pallets. I said WHAT FOR?!! She told me that the Cache-Wasatch National Forest does not allow pallets to be burned there. Supposedly the nails make a mess. I said she could have a seat and a cold root beer while I pulled all the nails out. She said no. I asked why Cache-Wasatch did not have to follow the same laws as the other NATIONAL FORESTS. She did not have an answer. Basically i was told that she was taking them or I was going to get a ticket.

The other people I was with did not understand why I was arguing with her. They started telling me to just give in. As bad as I hated to do so, I did. I am stille pissed!! She did not say anything about the broken glass all over the place. What is next, no glass in forest service lands? BULL SHI*!!

Don't even ask about all the closed roads up there!! You will get all sorts of bullshi* reasons for it. But after you get those excuses, go for a hike. All of the roads that are closed off have areas full of freakin sheep. I can't drive there but range maggots can ruin entire canyons?!! What the hell?

OK, I am done now, but still pissed. When did the forest service stop serving the forest and become a police force?

2pointer
 
About 5 years ago I was fly fishing on the Firehole river in Yellowstone with my brother. We were out in the middle of the river fishing when a forest ranger got out of his truck with his hand on his pistol and yelled for us to put our hands up (lines still out in the water) and to slowly walk to the edge of the river and sit down on the bank. He then has us put our rods in the grass, unbuckle our waders and pull them down to our ankles. He checks us both for weapons with not a single word to any of our questions. He checks our drivers licenses, runs them through his computer, hands them back to us and says, "Have a good day." He climbs back into his truck and drives off with my brother and I just standing there lost as could be. No explanation was ever given.
 
Well I'm glad there are rangers out there enforcing the rules the National Forest Service makes! That's a GOOD thing. There has to be enforcement. THey can't catch everything and some thing they DO catch seem like a waste of time to even bother with, but at least someone is doing his/her job.

And I know you think some of the rules are silly, but there is usually a good reason behind the rules. There were alot of lakes that were well visited and the areas around them were starting to be stripped bare of all campfire wood. They were getting tromped down and it just wasn't pretty anymore. They was starting to look like the established campgrounds. And there are plenty of animals around lakes who need the deadfall for habitat. The rule was instated and applies to all lakes, not just the problem areas. Prevention. Some places may not need the strict regulations that other places need, but it's the "one rule applies to all" theory.

I know it kinda sucks and I wasn't too happy about it either, but the fact is, more and more people use the High Uintas every year and if we don't do something to protect what we have there, we'll lose the pristine beauty of our favorite places. Seriously...some of those places were looking really, really bad. All the USFS had in mind when they made the no camping w/in 1/4 mile of a lake regulation and the camping near water regulation was restoration to the natural conditions, habitat and environment.

There has been some publicity about the new regulations, but I agree, there could probably be more. And also, it is ultimately up to the USER to know the rules before he/she goes camping in the backcountry.

Is it going to solve the problem? WHo knows. Everyone is an armchair biologist when it comes to these things and many people had differing opinions. It may just be a temporary bandaid, but I think the reasoning behind the regulation is a sound reason.
 
"And I know you think some of the rules are silly, but there is usually a good reason behind the rules."

And might I add that other times the reasons are so lame that it makes us all dumber for hearing them. These power freaks that will do anything to keep us out of the wilderness do not have to make sense. They have worked themselves into a position of power and do what ever they want. If there were a proposed law change in any town in the USA it would have to get approved and voted on first. Not just by a bunch of Gypsies that want us to all grow dread locks and stop bathing, but by the majority. Why do these folks not have to follow the order that everyone else does. We are dealing with public forest lands, that is PUBLIC, not private.

I do see the need for rules and enforcement. But when does the general public get to have a say? Why are we being ruled by these elitists? this is just one more of our civil liberties being trampled on. The forest service has no accountability to anyone. They can do what ever they want and no one is allowed to challenge them. I am sick and tired of America being destroyed!! We have rights and there is an order for everything, that has been established. These pukes for some reason do not have to follow the order.

Someone who has not been indoctinated by a biased college professor is called an armchair biologist. By some, our opinions and real world observations are thown to the side because we are just a bunch of "whiners". It is this type of elitist attitude that will destroy our wonderfull nation.

Sorry for the rant, but this type of crap really gets me going.

2pointer
 
>And might I add that other
>times the reasons are so
>lame that it makes us
>all dumber for hearing them.

LOL Sorry, man! Those are the reasons they gave though. And I personally think they're actually good reasons...maybe not applicable to every lake, but good for the lakes that were getting thrashed. And you know...there were plenty of people who didn't want this regulation to go through and thought the reasoning was pretty lame too (I didn't happen to agree with that though...I thought the damage was pretty heavy and getting worse with more and more traffic..not that I came out in support of it though...I just wasn't openly against it, although I did have my reservations to the big "solution"). There was a comment period and several groups came out in opposition, but I think you're onto something when you say your next statement.....

> These power freaks that
>will do anything to keep
>us out of the wilderness
>do not have to make
>sense.
>Why do these folks not
>have to follow the order
>that everyone else does.
>We are dealing with public
>forest lands, that is PUBLIC,
>not private.

>when does the general public
>get to have a say?
> Why are we being
>ruled by these elitists?
>this is just one more
>of our civil liberties being
>trampled on. The forest
>service has no accountability to
>anyone. They can do
>what ever they want and
>no one is allowed to
>challenge them.

if I remember correctly, here's how it went down: I had a girlfriend who worked at the local USFS office and there were a bunch of employees who were against this regulation but their new manager, can't remember the guy's name but he's since been replaced, he really wanted this regulation and he was going get it pushed through no matter what. I think the "public comment period" was just a formality and he was going to do what he wanted anyway. I remember having lunch w/my friend and another USFS worker and they were not happy about it. They wanted people to come out against it, so I took the issue to a local horse riding group I belong to and the pres of the group drafted up a statement against it, (but there were others in the club who thought it was a great idea.) Apparently none of the "against" statements held any weight, nor were they considered. (You know I'll be told I was wrong for saying that though, don't you?)

>
>I do see the need for
>rules and enforcement. I am
>sick and tired of America
>being destroyed!!

Funny...those you're railing against have the same opinion. They just feel it's being literally destroyed. I get where you're coming from though and I think your viewpoint has alot more validity than those who want to save Mother Earth at every cost.

>Someone who has not been indoctinated
>by a biased college professor
>is called an armchair biologist.

Well...that's what we are, isn't it? LOL Don't take that as a slam...it was not intended that way. But don't discount education either. I think education along with real world obersations and experience would be a perfect combination for a NSFS job.

> By some, our opinions
>and real world observations are
>thown to the side because
>we are just a bunch
>of "whiners". It is
>this type of elitist attitude
>that will destroy our wonderfull
>nation.
>
I know. The wrong "whiners" are getting action when it comes to wilderness and National Forest issues aren't they?

>Sorry for the rant, but this
>type of crap really gets
>me going.
>

Don't apologize! It gets me going too. I don't like it when someone who's never been out West sits in an office on Capitol Hill and tries to lobby for what they think would be best in my backyard. And I agree with you in that by just going through the motions but not really taking into account the opinions and concerns of anyone against a regulation such as this, it destroying America...our system.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-08 AT 07:36AM (MST)[p]Phase II of the anti campaign.... Infiltrate the ranks of USFS and G&F depts. and tighten the rope..... Just a theory..... :) Terry
 
Get this, we were out in the hills here in Washington one day, several miles in from any paved road and we stopped for a piss break....since we were in the middle of nowhere I just pissed along side the road...right as I finish up here comes Skippy the Forest Cop.....he asks what I was doing so I just gave him one of those "what does it look like" looks and he proceeds to tell me how expensive of a restroom break it could be for me and that he ought to write me up! I was flabbergasted and couldn't believe he was serious, anyways, we get in our vehicle, still in disbelief, and we look over and he is just staring at us....so I take a shot in the dark and put my seatbelt on and he says, "yeah, you better put that on" and drives off. Just to clarify, I didn't smart off (although I wish I would have) at all and had I, I'm sure I would've been ticketed. I still can't believe it, what a friggin joke.
 
I hear what you guys are all saying ! Alot of forest service and fish cops have that Barny Fithe mentality, I think they were the kids that got picked on in high school & this is there way of getting there revenge on the world ! I know they have a job to do, but they can do it with out being a total ASS!! about it and wrighting every ticky tack citation they can come up with ! I think the forest service people are becoming a bunch of extreme tree huggers ( like zigga ) that are slowly taking all are rights away as citizens to access are public lands.

As I right this post I am sending a money order to the Green River Wyoming circuit court for a life jacket violation that I got a few weeks back @ Flaming Gorge while fishing out of my float tube. Oh ya the fine was $110, boy they got to feel good about there job after that one, God forbid they go after some one that is breaking a real law, like all the drunks that are driving there boats around.

Hey Zigga, we are just venting man ! Lighten up ! Maybe you can send the message to all your tree huggin forest service friends !
 
So. . . I'm not the only one who has had problems with the forest service. Everyone who posted stories of how they felt mistreated by the FS seems like they had good intentions.
 
I got no issues with rules and laws and the process of enforcing them. It's the ones that try and get you on the gray area issues and all the ticky tacky crap...........I mean don't they have real crimnals to pursue.

Mike
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-08 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]Here in CA we have to have our deer tags countersigned by any LEO ASAP after harvesting a deer. Twice I've had Forest Service personel countersign them and both times I was treated like a criminal and they went on a fishing expedition searching for a violation. They found nothing to bust me on but I'll be sure to never have ranger rick countersign again.
 
I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that is a little crazy when it comes to athority figures, once on an elk hunt after killing his elk tagged punched licence signed after kill everything legal he had his horse tied to a live tree and an over zellous forest service ranger about 24 years old and defineately not a hunter. came over and started chewing his arse about tieing his horse up to a live tree dropping the F-bomb and really being a richard. Well after this guy takes his brow beating the ranger reaches into his pocket and pulls out his ticket book and starts writing out citations after it was all said and done it was going to cost him 998.00 or something like that.
The ranger hands him his ticket and the guy just wads it up and hands it back to him. second time same thing but another 100 bucks for disobeying a federal officer wads it up hands it back and the ranger flys off the handle treatning him with jail time and taking away everything he owns but his birthday well the guy looks up and says well I guess Im just going to have to kill you. The ranger said if you do that you will go to jail and the guy replied well atleast when I get out Ill still have all of my stuff. The ranger turned white as a ghost and walked off. The guy hurries up packs up the elk and heads to the trail head. Waiting for him at the trail head is the cops he tells his side of the story and they haul him to jail for the night he bails out the next morning and files a formal complaint with the forest service. to make a long story short all charges were dropped because of conduct unbecoming an officer and the situation would of never of escalated to what it did if the ranger would of handled himself professionally and not droped the F-bomb.

Im not to sure this story is true but I have met the above mentioned guy and it would not surprize me if it was.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-08 AT 06:04PM (MST)[p]a little of the subject
I was in Jackson Hole area and found 2 moose sheds, when I was comming out a drab green suburban (forest service) pulls up and a lady gets out and starts in on me about picking up the antlers. I told her I would take them back after she gave me the 1 2 about the laws and she said No that she sould take care of them... I am sure they look really good in her double wide..

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
TripleK was right on how the 1/4 mile campfire restriction regulation in the Uintas went down, but wrong on the sensibility of the reg.

Some folks in the Forest Service were going to push it threw no matter what. There was a comment period, but letters were only sent to the Forest Service mailing list. Who you ask is on the mailing list? Environmental Groups and a minute few others. So what do you think the majority of responses were that they received. In reality there really was no comment period for the public..... at least that the general public was aware of. Any opposition to the regulation was cast aside and ignored.

This regulation has nothing to d with wildlife or vegetation, although that is the rationale that is given. There are no wildlife populations that will be hurt or decline, because a few hundred feet around some lakes in the Uintas has been depleted of down woody-debris. That is bogus!! If you believe that, you need to take a biology/wildlife class or a class on common sense. Even those species that rely on down woody debris would and do thrive in the Uintas, regardless of campfires. How much of there habitat in the Uintas is really affected by campfires? think about that. The sole purpose of this regulation is purely aesthetics.....how some people want the area around lakes to look.

Depsite what TripleK and Zigga say, there are only a handful of lakes in the Uintas that exhibit damage from overuse. The majority of lakes do not have this damage, especially lakes that are a mile+ away from a trail and lakes that are above timberline. The regulation may have been appropriate around a few of the lakes in the Uintas, but it was far too reaching to make a blanket decision across the South Slope of the Uintas and include lakes that receive light or very light usage, or lakes that are above timberline. Imagine yourself at a lake (seldom visited) you just hiked 7 miles on a trail and an additional 2 miles cross country to get to (no trail) with deadfall abundant.....so abundant that navigating around the lake proves rather difficult. Then ask yourself, with the rationale given by the forest Service (depletion of down wood), why this lake was included in the blanket decision. This scenario is true to several areas of the Uintas.

TripleK talks about the change over time that has taken place. I absolutely disagree and TripleK has no data to back-up his claim. Other than the trees being a little biger, conditions around most of these lakes look nearly the same as they did 20, 25, 30+ years ago.

Some data was collected to prior to the decision to try and support the decision, but this data is not based on any science. Basically, it was willy-nilly and based solely on the observers preference......lots of bias. It can not stand statistically.

Also, you might want to ask yourself why the North Slope decision was not so heavy handed.

It is interesting that I hear of people griping about this regulation, but then do nothing to get it changed. If you want it changed, then call the Forest Service office and say so. Believe it or not, you may be listened to, since as TripleK stated, there are folks in the Forest Service that might agree with you.
 

Similar threads

Aceman
Your Favorite Hunt
Replies
22
Views
1k
Rie bread
Rie bread
L
Elk antler poacher fined, loses hunting privileges for 3 years
Replies
25
Views
2k
BLooDTRaCKeR
BLooDTRaCKeR
Founder
Great Hunt Testimonial for Sonora Outfitters
Replies
0
Views
471
Founder
Founder

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

Big Velvet Trophy Muley
E6866AF6-A827-455B-B96C-4C5386762362.jpeg
20150915_080752_zpssggpuag9.jpg
D137ED25-28BB-404A-A973-42397A6A186E.jpeg
Great Times
20200229_174319.jpg
Momma Coyote and Pups Playing in the Snow @MonsterMuleys.com
IMG_3511.JPG
20200903_195500.jpg
Early 2022 Whopper Muley
20220608_215949.jpg
D8E0EB56-4DC1-40A0-A8A5-95B58E4B1B8F.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom