Free Ammo

NiceRack

Active Member
Messages
358
Just got a offer in the mail for a free box of rifle ammo from AZ F&G. It would appear AZ. is going the way of CA. and motivating/requiring hunters to use lead free ammo. AZ F&G in conjunction with Cabelas is sending a free box of (in my case 270 Weatherby mag. a $65.00 value) lead free rifle ammo to hunters that drew Kaibab tags. I have already loaded my own 300wsm with Barnes Triple Shock and they are smoking hot! I will stick to deer and antelope with the 130gr. 270 Weath. mag. In a way, The effort to replenish the California Condor population by using lead free rifle ammo is a plus. Ammuntion has evolved tremendously over the last decade or so! Barnes and others are at the forefront of this ballistic evolution and I am totally on board.
Paul
"Nice Rack" Taxidermy
 
Paul, they have done this for some time now. I agree with it also. I got the same info in the mail and ordered some .257 wby mag shells......Which tag did you get? ............... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Got the same coupon in the mail.

I called the program's manager and spoke to her about it with concern that these were coming out a bit late for rifle pronghorn season. She agreed but told me of the difficult schedule she had to work with. It was a legit reason.

Anyhow I asked how long she thought the turn around would be. She said probably a couple of weeks. Anyhow I put the coupon in the mail on Monday and had a box of ammo sitting on my door on Friday! Wow! Talk about excellent customer service. Huge round of applause for the Department and Cabela's to make this thing work.

As far as the need to use these bullets and the implication with California's method of restriction, I think it's best that AZ continue with it's voluntary program. I firmly believe that the program will find more success in the long run using this method than making people buy lead free and piss them off about anything regarding condors in the process.
 
The more condors we have out there, the more room the condors are gonna need, the more room they need. the more we are gonna have restrictions put on our ammo,and other things that disturb the condors.Has any one ever seen one in the wild in person?
I say survival of the fittest, I have no use for wolves or condors.
 
I drew 12A east.....I was drawn for the same hunt in 2005 but did not receive any free ammo offers for that hunt year.
Good luck too all who drew the Kaibab this season.
Paul
"Nice Rack" Taxidermy
 
The more condors we have out there, the more room the condors are gonna need, the more room they need. the more we are gonna have restrictions put on our ammo,and other things that disturb the condors.Has any one ever seen one in the wild in person?


Yes I have seen Condor's in California while hunting in the "A" zone many years ago. I have also seen them while flying low in my Cessna 172 over the Tehachapi Mtns. in California. They are quite magestic birds. From the viewpoint of a taxidermist I consider them to be one of the most magnificent birds I have ever seen, I rank them right up there with the Bald Eagle in beauty of flight and stature.
As far as putting restrictions on ammo that statement is without merit.....the ammo they are giving away is far superior to lead/copper jacketed bullets. The ballistics have shown the solid copper bullets have no where near the fragmentation and retain almost all of their original weight, that combined with the "petal peeling" characteristics of the copper the shock and tissue damage is superior to a fragmented lead bullet.
As far as Wolves go....that's another issue. I will be hunting them in Idaho in October!
Paul
"Nice Rack" Taxidermy
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-06-10 AT 00:06AM (MST)[p]I have a confession to make?

I was drawn for the 12AW early hunt this year (with my wife and father-in-law) and I got the free box of ammo coupon. I was also drawn about 4 years ago and got 2 boxes of ammo and intended to use them. I didn't have time to resight my rifle and ended up using some existing lead bullets I had to kill a small buck that year (I usually hunt with my bow so my rifle gets little use? a couple boxes of bullets last me a while). I kind of looked at the unused lead-free bullets as my go-to rounds if I was required to go lead free in the future (I know, not cool). I was even thinking of doing the same this year??..and then I watched the little DVD sent with the coupon. Someone at AZGFD was using their head when they created that DVD.

It showed x-rays of multiple deer shot with lead bullets. I believe some were clean pass throughs but virtually all had quite a bit of lead in the meat. Lead is pretty unhealthy, even in small doses (according to my local water company at least). I know there will be plenty of ?my 90 year old grandpa lived on rifle shot deer his entire life, it aint that bad? stories, whatever?. Maybe some lead is good but I am sure that no-lead is better?..lead particles can end up far from the bullet hole so cutting out the blood shot meat is probably not going to get it all. I have been hunting the Kaibab since I was a 10 year old kid and I think I will be using the lead free stuff up there from now on, I value that place and my own health too much not to. I have done some research and the copper Barnes bullets perform very much like lead (besides the higher price). As infrequently as I shoot my rifle the expense of the bullets will be negligible.

It is a personal choice but I would encourage anyone that uses their coupon to use the bullets THIS year. Don?t be ordering the 30-378 Weatherby bullets (MSRP is over $120.00) unless you actually have a 30-378 Weatherby rifle and you plan to kill your deer with it THIS YEAR. I believe this program is funded from a budget that could be used for other things like habitat projects, it is not cool to take advantage of it in my opinion. Don?t be an A-hole like I was a couple years ago, USE the copper bullets, the deer gods will bless you for it.

One more thing. I realize this is kind of a slippery slope (first a lead ban on the Kaibab, then the rest of Arizona, then $10.00 boxes of lead-free dove shells). I get it, and I don't support a comprehensive lead ban statewide. I just think the Kaibab is a special place and is worthy of special consideration, there is no place like it. I don't care much about the condors but I do think that spraying lead on the Kaibab (when you have free copper bullets in the truck) is as bad a tossing an empty water bottle in the road, maybe worse. I am not a biologist but I have taken some biology courses in college and I never once heard of a living organism that benefited from ingesting lead. And no, I don't work for AZGFD and I sure the hell didnt vote for Obama.
 
The condors are an invasive species,NONE were ever here before!!!!!!!!This is all money that could be put to much better use anywhere.Kaibab was fine before these buzzards came along.When you let one freedom slip by which one is next --bowhunting-trapping(oh sh"t we lost that one )mabe predator hunting-that ones next!Don't give into the anti's is just this one thing,thats how you lose alltogether.I have hunted kaibab for over 35 years I have seen the highs and lows all made by AzGFD!If it were burros or wolves on the kiabab would you feel the same warm fuzzy feeling you get over the condors?????
 
Where do you get your factual data that supports the assertion that Condor's are an invasive species? I suspect it is a gutteral reaction that is shared by many of your ilk. I'm afraid you are brainwashed by some group or fear that some freedom you have enjoyed is slipping away. Please without exaggerating or embellisment cite your source for your claim. If you can, please explain how this new "lead free" ammo is a loss of your freedom? Laws and rules change. People evolve, at least most do! I suspect you might have hunted the Kaibab a few times over a 35 year span but I hardly believe you have hunted the Kaibab for 35 years! As far as Burro's and Wolves....I hold no grudge. I expect AZFG to manage and protect all species within it's jurisdiction.
Paul
"Nice Rack" Taxidermy
 
His point is nicerack if you allow them to ban lead on the Kaibab, the next step will be a statewide ban and it goes on and on. Every ban just gets the antis that much closer to there ultimate goal of no hunting. And to say shooting a lead bullet is as bad as throwing out a water bottle? Come on man, lead is in the ground naturally. That is just silly I.m.o.
 
A few times on kaibab,lets see 23 hunts 12aw 12ae 12b mule deer buffalo,and every year for 14 in a row on many lion hunts.Not all mine but buddies and other hunters.Let me know when you can find that condors were on kaibab before G&F put them up there.
 
I did some research and found.....
National Geographic, Field Guide to the Birds of North America, fourth edition states, California Condor.....Range: Last wild birds captured in April 1987. Before that found in arid foothills and mountains of southern and central California. Decline to near extinction caused largely by lead poisoning and illegal shooting. Recently reintroduced in southern California and introduced in northern Arizona.
The Condor is an introduced species to northern AZ.
Now back to the original topic. How is the free (premium) ammo a threat to your "rights"?
Paul
"Nice Rack" Taxidermy
 
If there where to be a ban on lead ammo, then what would we do with all the ammo all o fus have stock piled the last few years. Will the goverment exchange it, lead for cooper. Hows that gonna work. I have about 50,000 rds of 22 lr not to mention all the reloading stuff i have or the 20,000 rds of store bought stuff .
 
Guys, the G&F program is a great program, but they are fighting a huge lobby to ban lead in ammunition.

My least favorite group in the whole world, The Center for Biological Diversity, recently petitioned the Feds to ban lead in ammunition nationwide.

We have a big fight coming up.
 
well when your bullet doesnt performe it will just help feed the condor. As far as lead bullets and killing condors it was probly shot with a lead bullet there is no proof that lead killed 1 condor the power lines here in condor country killed at least 12 but you dont see them banning power lines & poles do you.
Nim

2056alex_&_buffalo_003.jpg
 
Is it just the north of the rim hunters who get the free ammo? I have a 10 rifle elk tag and haven't got the offer...
 
O one more thing I forgot to mention if you have a older rifle the Barnes bullets may not work well they are a bit longer and you will need a slower twist to stabileize them but all guns are diffrent. When you sight your gun in use a target with a cardboard back stop so you may see if the bullet is yawing.

Nim
 

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