Funny Stuff

Indeed that is funny as all getout. It happening in Chicago makes it even better. Now will Obama give the unions a sweetheart deal and delay it for them. Makes you wonder what he will do.

RELH
 
Nobody thinks it's a little funny this company has to do this before they lost a dime. this story is meaningless in the business world but what are the chances it will be picked up on by the media? I'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

Yes , it's funny stuff.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I was taught that in business you have to be proactive. Anyone who can read understands the 30 hour rule. Why should a business wait to have a loss? Do you market your crops that way? Do you wait to see if the market drops and then react or are you also looking ahead?

Nemont
 
I seldom catch the top of the market because I can't see into the future, nobody can. same goes for the ACA , 5 years from now after the needed alterations we may look back and wonder why it took so long to try it.

If it flops, we're where we started.

In my work when I have a problem I can't hide from it, I have to give it my best shot and if I'm wrong I try another route. lets cowboy up and try something, I've had enough of the can't do pusses in this battle it's pathetic. this is not the end of the world for us, well maybe the poor suckers who won't be able to get insured or get booted off if the ACA is repealed but the rest of us will live.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
"If it flops, we're where we started."


And millions of people that had 40 hour jobs with some benefits now have sub 30 hour jobs with no benefits.
 
Maybe, but I pay my own insurance anyway so I'm not going to shed many tears .

Why is it some people feel entitled to tax free health care from their employer and they resent giving the chance for others to buy it at a price they can afford.

The guy who can least afford insurance isn't getting it from his employer anyway. the insurance costs more than his paycheck is. your arguement is bogus, if you don't like it find a better job. that's what you always tell those who don't have insurance today. take your own medicine.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
Jabali won't answer you, the truth is the rightwing is a deeply troubled party who's inner circle has no soul, no decency and is only concerned about gaining power.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-13 AT 02:42PM (MST)[p]Piper

Explain why you love the democrats. This new law is theirs no right winger had any input

Nemont
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-13
>AT 02:42 PM (MST)
>
>Piper
>
>Explain why you love the democrats.
>This new law is theirs
>no right winger had any
>input
>
>Nemont

Comrade Piper does not love anyone. He just hates anyone that has earned more wealth than he has.

Nothing ever thought out, just hate the producers.
***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
"Maybe, but I pay my own insurance anyway so I'm not going to shed many tears .

Why is it some people feel entitled to tax free health care from their employer and they resent giving the chance for others to buy it at a price they can afford.

The guy who can least afford insurance isn't getting it from his employer anyway. the insurance costs more than his paycheck is. your arguement is bogus, if you don't like it find a better job. that's what you always tell those who don't have insurance today. take your own medicine."

I had no argument with you 440. I was referring to your comment "If it flops, we're where we started." I was only pointing out that from your perspective we will be back where we started. I do not resent giving the chance for others to buy it at a price they can afford. If we reduce their incomes by 25% (cutting them to less than 30 hours from 40),aren't we making it more difficult for them to afford. This is the reality in some cases so how does this legislation help? How are they back where they started?

And Pipers description of Right wingers in post #8 describes ALL politicians.
 
Jabali, you are right, but at least the dems just kick the working class in the butt instead of the nuts.

I dislike the dems also but they are usually better at sticking up for the regular guy.
In the western states the dems are normally better friends to outdoorsmen, they push harder for access, preservation of roadless areas, and I have yet to hear them talk about selling off the public land to the highest bidder.
Since the outdoor lifestyle is what I enjoy and want to pass on its an important issue with me.
 
I suppose if you can't make it on 30 hours a week you'll have to find a job that pays better or give you more hours. that's what I'm told those who can't provide for themselves are supposed to do. what's the difference. maybe the guy who has no job today will get one when the employer needs more people to fill in the lost hours. make lemonade.

We've tried nothing and it hasn't worked. there is no proof this law with the right alterations won't be an improvement for the majority of americans. we can always go back to how it is, we're paying for everyone as it is we just like to see them beg for it.

I know too many good hard working responsible people who've been wiped out by a sickness in their family. some even had insurance it's wrong, it needs to change, now is as good of time as any.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
440

Explain how this law will change anything in regards to people losing everything due to illness. In almost all cases the insurance plans have increased out of pockets expenses and does zero to end medical bankruptcy.

If that is what you think this does you may want to learn some facts

Nemont
 
Insurance is better than no insurance,less people will be wiped out with insurance than without. more things are covered, it's harder to dump you . these all contribute to less medical bankruptcy.

Some people may still get hammered, just like a friend of mine was killed last month by lightning so chit happens we have to accept that.

Why do nothing just because we can't fix everything. our system will still be lacking amoung other developed nations, but if we can work up from 37th to 27th that's improvement where I come from. maybe they won't bury us quite as soon.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
Dude if Obamacare causes the insurance premiums to go up, as predicted. There will be more working stiffs that can not afford to purchase medical insurance and they would be the ones that get wiped out in bankruptcy over medical costs.
I have seen hospitals go after a person for still owing 50 bucks on a bill that had been thousands when the person started paying it off on monthly payments.

RELH
 
If you can't afford insurance today what are the chances the new rates will matter? the fact is many will qualify for assistance.

I don't know how it will all sort out but I'm not afraid to fry something that might work in place of something that isn't.

Who wants to claim we can keep what we're doing and everything will be fine? do we have anyone that dumb? Manny? trigger?

Ok if you think we need another plan what would you have your conservatives replace Obamacare with? and would it have a chance in hell of passing? if not it's irrelevant, I can come up with lots of ideas that won't happen I don't need more.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 00:27AM (MST)[p]220 putting his money on the lesser of two evils, both leading to impending economic and financial failure, and calling that progress!

Can we keep doing what we're doing...NO! anything short of a complete FEDERAL GOVERNMENT overhaul will lead us down the same road we're on now. Our government is an out of control runaway train and will either need to be stopped or will eventually derail. What alot of people don't see is, while all this economic chaos is occuring, a select few individuals are getting filthy rich while the common man is feeling the pinch!

Love how you peg Manny and I as the stupid ones because we believe in GOD! Doesn't bother me the least bit. Pretty sure Manny doesn't give a rats *** either.
 
I think Obama & 440 think the Employer is who will be paying the whole Bill when in Reality once-a-F'N-gain the Workin Guy PAYS out the Ass!

"""We gotta Bail the U.S. Government & the U.S. Postal Service Out Boys,somebody's got to"""!

Must be Bush's Fault again?

















Best Watch Out!
My Arm is starting to Hurt!
I'm about to Itch it!
 
Trigger the fact you belive in god has nothing to do with , it's just that you're stupid thats all.

Bobcat if your insurance is a tax free part of your wages then you are paying for it. you could get a bigger paycheck if he didn't pay your insurance right? wow huh.

There is a limit to what an employer can stand and in many cases we've passed it, then you'll think a change is needed. the largest employer in my county capped insurance benefits at $800 per family, if that doesn't cover it you're welcome to fund the rest. nothing is a crisis until it effects you is it.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
So, if you save money on a benefit for the pickers do you give the savings to them? Never happened ansd never will. When all companies dump health coverage the money will go to the bottom line unless unemployment is down to 4%.
 
What you're a 99%er now?

I think everyone should pay their own premiums. that's how people take an interest in what it costs.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
"I think everyone should pay their own premiums. that's how people take an interest in what it costs"".440

I agree and I have ridiculously good health insurance paid for by my employer. I have argued forever that we go for a much cheaper group policy with a higher copay. Personally I avoid doctors but because it is cheap under my group coverage other people covered by my group plan go for every runny nose. It's wasteful and drives up cost. Pay me a percentage of the premium now paid and let me purchase my own.
 
"Trigger the fact you belive in god has nothing to do with , it's just that you're stupid thats all."

The feeling is mutual!


You claim to be on neither side but your statements lean to the left. Give Obamacare a chance you say!

Me, I'm a libertarian conservative who believes our current government, both the repubs and dems are leading this nation into impending financial FAILURE!

I guess we'll see who the stupid one is when all this comes to a head!
 
>"I think everyone should pay their
>own premiums. that's how people
>take an interest in what
>it costs"".440
>
>I agree and I have ridiculously
>good health insurance paid for
>by my employer. I
>have argued forever that we
>go for a much cheaper
>group policy with a higher
>copay. Personally I avoid
>doctors but because it is
>cheap under my group coverage
>other people covered by my
>group plan go for every
>runny nose. It's wasteful and
>drives up cost. Pay
>me a percentage of the
>premium now paid and let
>me purchase my own.

That isn't where Obamacare is headed. Ask the unions if they support paying for individual health insurance with money currently going to a tax free benefit? Ask your teachers union, I bet you will not get a positive answer.

The tax free nature of employer sponsored health insurance is the biggest regressive tax in this country and you would think that Democrats and Unions would fight tooth and nail to end regressive taxes. However, it is the exact opposite. One has to ask yourself why a party that hates regressive tax continues to stick up for the biggest one?

Answer that question and you will understand why Piper's blaming everything in health care on the right wing is not only stupid but an right lie.

Nemont
 
It doesn't take Einstein to see we're headed for a finacial wreck down the road that's been out path for years. you have an uncanny grasp for the obvious I must admit .


By the way, Einstein was an athiest.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Yes we are heading down the road to a finacial wreck. Now ask yourself who is leading that parade down the road or do you fail to have a uncanny grasp of what is obvious and in front of your face. If you look hard enough, you will see Obama is the drum major in front and many of his liberal democrats in the band following.

RELH
 
Completely off topic.

Einstein was a little more nuanced than the garden variety athiest.

Einstein rejected the label atheist. Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."[1] According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."[18]
Einstein had previously explored the belief that man could not understand the nature of God. In an interview published in 1930 in G. S. Viereck's book Glimpses of the Great, Einstein, in response to a question about whether or not he believed in God, explained:
Your question [about God] is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things.[19]
In a 1950 letter to M. Berkowitz, Einstein stated that "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."[20]
According to biographer Walter Isaacson, Einstein was more inclined to denigrate disbelievers than the faithful.[21] Einstein said in correspondence, "[T]he fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who?in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'?cannot bear the music of the spheres."[21][22] Although he did not believe in a personal God, he indicated that he would never seek to combat such belief because "such a belief seems to me preferable to the lack of any transcendental outlook."[23]
In 1945 Guy Raner, Jr. wrote a letter to Einstein, asking him if it was true that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism. Einstein replied, "I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. ... It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere?childish analogies. We have to admire in humility and beautiful harmony of the structure of this world?as far as we can grasp it. And that is all.
 
Nemont' The important thing about the healthcare law is that it involves change and will hopefully eventually lead to a
decent modern system, Obamacare critic Howard Dean says as much, Harry Reid
has said the same type thing and with no major repercussions.

Healthcare should be separate from employment, I don't care what the unions think or what Obama said or how it became this way, change and moving forward is all that matters.
Any meaningful change in this big diverse country is hard and takes guts and that's an understatement.
 
So the standard that you judge things on is that if a Republican is in control he is responsible for everything even though it takes time but when a Democrat is in control the right wing forces them to keep the right wing system?

Who is going to touch health care for the next 20 years? Highly unlikely there will be a politician that will touch it again for a generation.

This law didn't change anything except add more people to a broken system and keep the flaws. There is no national system because each state got to choose how to approach the exchanges, it didn't break down the regressive tax policy, instead it enhanced with concession to employers and unions.

It doesn't matter what you want or care about the unions, they have the democrats ear and there is not way the dems will not do as the unions want, period.

This isn't moving forward and Harry Reid is an idiot all together.

Nemont
 
The liberals want to eliminate all employer subsidized health coverage because people with the good jobs get better coverage than the non working dirtballs. Just not fair so they will scrap the entire system and try to force all of us into a single payer system. They fail to understand that the rich will always have the best of everything including private clinics and the best hospitals. Do you think Mayo Clinic will accept Obamacare? Just like they accept Medicare. They don't. Even in Russia the haves rule and it will be no different here. Just get rid of the millions and millions that were covered by their employers and force them into the gulag system. Dumbasses.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]I think your wrong about there being no changes for decades, Winston Churchill once said that "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other possibilities"

Lets hope that still holds true, because there seems to be no other way.
 
Glen its important to scrap the employer system because of the economic failure of the current system.
If it makes you feel better think of it that way instead of how someone might live a little longer, or how families might go bankrupt less.
 
The liberals see employer subsidized healthcare as a gift. It is not. It is part of a COMPENSATION PACKAGE along with our wages for the job we do for the employer. It use to be viable for an employer to help ensure a healthy workforce... well that was until the government came along and f**ked everything up!

And those have's which will have private clinics and the best hospitals will be every congressman in Washington, 220"s daddy and his stooge Biden.

The rest of us will be standing in line at the gulag infirmary!
 
Piper-do you honestly believe that employer subsidized healthcare caused any issues with healthcare we are facing? Maybe a tax shortfall that would just be wasted by congress. You and your buddies just gave a huge gift to the capitalist pigs. Companies have been wishing for a way to get out of providing a plug nickel for employee health and you just gave them a huge bottom line gift. That will transfer billions from the workers to the company bottom line. They could have never pulled it off without you.
 
NeMont never have been a member of the teachers association and yes I know their stance. In my opinion public unions or associations often protect the weak. Most teachers join unions to have tenured or continuing contract agreements enforced, in all honest if they want me gone I want to be gone. I can find another job easy enough. I also realize a place for unions exist just not for me. The exception for me was when I worked for the railroad and they strong armed me into joining that one.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]

The problem with employer sponsored health insurance is the tax deduction. That is a huge regressive tax and the single largest tax expenditure in the Federal Budget. It distorts the value of health care dollars as it is cheaper to buy insurance that it is to pay wages. It also removes the payer of the premium, ie the employer, from the user of the service, ie the employees.

Employers don't decide where you buy any other insurance except health insurance. Why should they also not decide where you get your homeowners, your auto insurance, all other lines? Why just health insurance? Why do you want a one size fits all group plan when everyone is in a different situation?

The tax treatment of health care premiums is a large cause of our current problem because it masks the true cost of health care, it makes our employers less competitive and it costs us billions annually in tax expenditures.

Why should health insurance be tied to where you work?

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 03:14PM (MST)[p]Corn,

Fair enough, still go ask the unions representing teachers and they want to double dip. They want to write off the premium and get the tax credit in the exchanges.

Nemont
 
Nemont-why would anyone care if health insurance is tied to work other than it was a benefit that I paid 75% of as an employer and will pay 0% of in the future. Employees will have to pay a lot more in the future vs their employer subsidizing the cost. I doubt many small businesses will continue to pay for coverage. For a family we were paying $1400 a month and 25% or $350 was paid by the employee. With a family of four is there a competitive plan on the ACA? That was a $500 deductible plan.
 
Post #38 was a really good post never really thought of it that way but very true. Teachers unions or any union always want to double dip it's in the nature of the association between union and members to do as much as possible to make your members happy. I didn't say it was right or that it shouldn't be changed but it's how it works.
 
I stated the reasons why we should care about health insurance being tied to work.

Small business are dying to drop their health plans if their employees can get coverage.

As for what a family of four can get in an ACA plan, it all depends on many different variables.

Based on income, whether the kids are over or under 21, whether any use tobacco and what part of the country they are from. No way to tell what the impact is until you run the numbers.

Nemont
 

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