General Muzzle loading questions

Paradox · May 16, 2009

Hi All,
I am fairly new to muzzleloading but have found the discussions here to be invaluable!
Thanks for letting me lurk and learn.
I have a few questions however.
I have a CVA buckhorn 209 50 cal. I notice the composite stock is fairly tight to the barrel. Is this as big a problem as other rifles, should the barrel be free floated?
While working up a load last summer I shot a few 150gr loads and noticed the primer had blown off the nipple a couple times. How worried should I be about that? From reading here it seems most recommend lower powder charges for better accuracy. I have and will use the rifle to hunt deer where shots could be 200 yards. I feel 900-1000FP energy is the least you should hit a deer with.
Any suggestions? am I expecting too much from a muzzleloader?
Thanks for the help.
Ed

MLKeith · May 16, 2009

First you did not say what you are shooting 150gr.of. What powder? You could be above recommended charge. Next, I have never seen any reason to shoot anything over 100gr. equivalent of black powder. Trying to shoot 200 yards with a muzzleloader requires a lot of practice and a good scope. The kill zone on a deer gets pretty small at 200 yards. I hunt elk and try to keep my shots at 100 yards but with a 300gr. bullet and 90gr. of Black Mag 3 I have shot competely through an elk in the lung area. Give us a little more information and we will continue to help.

APBT · May 16, 2009

Ive had 2 staghorns ( old model buckhorns) and they had tight fitting stocks to the barrel, they both shot excellent. Removing the material isnt hard to do. Will it help with accuracy? It might.

the buckhorn uses a plunger system and im not surprised that the primer falls out with that much powder. Keep it around 100gr and the recoil will be much calmer and accuracy will be there as well.

200 yards is a long shot and will take a lot of practice, i wouldnt say its a good idea for the weekend warrior to go out to the range a few times and then think he can do 200 yards easily.

What bullet are you currently set up with and what kind of groups are you getting?

>Hi All,
>I am fairly new to muzzleloading
>but have found the discussions
>here to be invaluable!
>Thanks for letting me lurk and
>learn.
>I have a few questions however.
>
>I have a CVA buckhorn 209
>50 cal. I notice the
>composite stock is fairly tight
>to the barrel. Is this
>as big a problem as
>other rifles, should the barrel
>be free floated?
>While working up a load last
>summer I shot a few
>150gr loads and noticed the
>primer had blown off the
>nipple a couple times. How
>worried should I be about
>that? From reading here it
>seems most recommend lower powder
>charges for better accuracy. I
>have and will use the
>rifle to hunt deer where
>shots could be 200 yards.
>I feel 900-1000FP energy is
>the least you should hit
>a deer with.
>Any suggestions? am I expecting too
>much from a muzzleloader?
>Thanks for the help.
>Ed

www.ThePowerbeltForum.Powerguild.net

Paradox · May 16, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-16-09 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]Thanks Guys,
I have shot Hi-Power out to 500 yards and routinely group under 3" at 300 with my 270rem. The distance is not the problem. And of course I am willing to practice all it takes, I HATE tracking wounded deer!! I have a nikon 3-9 x 40 on the gun. Open sites of course would be more difficult.
The best load so far has been 100 gr 777 pellets with 777primer and 300gr hornady tipped bullet with sabot.
I get 3" groups at 100 yards and 6" groups at 200.
I know the gun will shoot 'cause it came with some lead bullets with sabots and groups about 1" (all the holes touch) at 50 yards with 100 gr pyrodex. 245gr powerbelt worked fine at 100 yards but I couldn't hit a refrigerator box 3 times at 200. same with 295 gr powerbelt aerotips.
I know what you mean about the recoil! When I first shot it with 100 gr powder it seemed pretty benign. I put 3 pellets in and touched it off....when the bleeding stopped, I found out I broke the scope! 100 grains is surely more comfortable but energy at 200 yards seems kind of marginal. I hunted Mule deer in AZ last year, had a 250 class buck at 240 yards. Man that sucked! watched him walk right past the survey stake for private!
Thanks for the quick replies,
Ed

Lowlandmulies · May 16, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-16-09 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]Ed

To really dial in your muzzy you need to throw away the pellets, they are for beginners. You need to find what powder,bullet combinations shoots through your gun the best. I suggest you by loose powder and start at 90 grains. Shoot three shots, swabbing between shots, at 50 yards. This is just to find your tightest group. Then go up 5 grains of powder repeating the hole process until you get to 120 grains or so. Sometimes you don't even need to go this high if your shoots are starting to move away from one another, Move back down in powder charges until you find the tightest powder, bullet configuration for your gun. Repeat this process with different bullet powder configurations

I shot my deer this year at 200 yards with a TC pro Hunter, quartering away, the bullet went clean through and broke the off side shoulder. He went 40 yards and fell over dead! 120 grains of triple 7 ffg and a 300 grian shock wave. Heavier bullets are more accurate and have more fpe down range.

It can be done with Muzzys, it just take tons of bench work! Good luck to you.

Steve
www.muledeercountry.com

txhunter58 · May 17, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-17-09 AT 06:57AM (MST)[p]"I hunted Mule deer in AZ last year, had a 250 class buck at 240 yards. Man that sucked!"

First of all, welcome to muzzleloading and MM.

As far as the above comment, again welcome to muzzleloading. The first thing you have to learn when starting out in muzzloading is that you are not using a 500 yard gun any more. It is no different than using a bow and seeing a good one at 60 yards when you individual max is 40. These instruments have their limits and when you choose to hunt with them, you accept their limits.

Is 200 yards with a scope doable? Sure, but I second what Lowland says: go to loose powder. And get you a variety of bullets to try to see what your particular gun likes.

Don't believe the "magnum load" hype. Jim Shockey, who has killed more animals with a muzzloader than most of us have with a rifle uses 100 grains of powder and a 300 gr bullet for any North American animal. My own elk load is 90 gr of BH 209 and a 350 grain hornady FPB.

And remember, 100 grains of 777 loose is equivalent to about 115 grains of pellets (it is 15% stronger). As stated, I would try and find the sweet spot between 90 and 120 grains. You should be able to do better that 3" at 100 yards with some combo of bullets and powder. And if you have trouble finding an accurate load with 777, don't be afraid to use pyrodex. Less crud ring and a lot of times is more accurate than 777 out of some guns. If Black Horn 209 will shoot out of your gun, try that to. It won't shoot out of all breechplug configurations though.

If 90 grains of powder is your most accurate load, I still would say that would be your best bet, but you would need a good pocket rangefinder and just hold higher on the longer shots.

good luck

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

Paradox · May 17, 2009

Darn, looks like I'll have to spend a ton of time at the range this summer

!
Do you measure the loads like you do when loading rifle bullets? What do you put the loose powder in after you measure it?
BTW I said I was a beginner, hance the pellets. now I have been enlightened.
I'll post later and let you know what I come up with. Where do you get the BH209?
Thanks,
Ed

APBT · May 17, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-17-09 AT 07:51PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-17-09 AT 07:49?PM (MST)

Check this out for Powder tubes. I have over 80 of them now and they have so many uses.

http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/lanes-powder-tubes-f6/lane-s-powder-tubes-t395.htm

I even store my custom powerbelt inserts in them , along with primers in another tube. Throw a few in the possibles bag and you're ready to go hunting.

Also some info for measuring powder charges.
http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/starting-out-f22/consistent-loads-t357.htm

txhunter58 · May 17, 2009

You probably know this, but don't WEIGH charges with loose powder, you need a volumetric measure and use volume measurements. When we talk about using 100 gr of powder, we are not talking 100 gr weight, but a VOLUME that is equal to 100 grains of real black powder.

After you find your guns sweet spot, if you want to weigh those charges to be more consistent, be my guest, but they won't weigh 100 gr.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)