glenwood fire

S

stinkystomper

Guest
Just curious if anyone knows how big and where exactly is this glenwood fire. I have a deer hunt in unit 15 this year and am expecting to shoot at least a 298" mule deer. Is this fire getting contained? exactly where is it at in relation to reserve and pie town? I assume its close to glenwood which should mean I'm safe but the way they label these fires sometimes you just never know.
 
Haven't heard about a fire near Glenwood, but there is one in the gila wilderness to the southeast of there. That is the whitewater fire and has burned around 10k acres. I hope there isn't one around Glenwood, if there is it is still a helluva long ways to pie town.
 
The Whitewater fire is about 10 miles east of Glenwood. It is currently still in the wilderness area but is threatening the Willow Creek area. I think its only a matter time before it heads down hill into Willow Creek. Essentially, this fire is still in 16B but threatening to move into the south end of 16A (Willow Creek and Snow Lake areas) There is a burn scar from the Bear fire in 2006 that should keep it from moving too far north. As of last night, most firefighters were pulled out because of a dangerous plume with fallout.

The Baldy fire is about 2 miles to the east of the Whitewater fire, also in the wilderness area. This fire is burning to the north and northeast but has reached an old burn scar from the Cub fire in 2002. This fire is not being actively fought because it is not currently threatening any structures. This fire is also in 16B.
 
Looking out my window right now at the plume and it's closer to 12k by now the way the wind is blowing. The 2 fires will probably join into one and all bets are off as to how big and where it ends up burning.Bone dry here. It's near Glenwood and the Willow creek area up to Whitewater Baldy LO. Long ways from 15 and 16 d,a,e. So far.
 
Map data ?2012 Google - Terms of Use










Hybrid


Terrain

Incident Overview



5/23/12 @7:42pm

Yesterday's wind event pushed the Baldy Fire north and northeast to Cub Mountain and towards Jackass Park. The fire is burning at times through heavily timbered areas causing smoke to become more concentrated. Fire behavior is expected to be similar today with more predicted strong winds and a Red Flag warning in the forecast.

With the wind event foreseeable through the weekend, anyone planning on traveling into this part of the Gila Wilderness should plan on taking another route or call the Wilderness Ranger District office at (575) 536-2250 or the Whitewater Fire Information at (575) 533 6901for more information as certain trails may be closed.
Size

15,000 acres
 
Here is another good site for fire updates and information.

http://inciweb.org/incident/2868/

They are reporting (as of 11 hours ago) the the two fires (Whitewater and Baldy) in the Gila have merged and are now being called the Whitewater-Baldy Complex.

Not a good situation at all. I hope it doesn't get too crazy down there - I have a deer tag in that unit (or what will be left of it).
 
Not looking good, crossed over 159, now burning in mineral creek in 16a, sounds like it is blowing up. I have hunted 16a for 6 yrs in a row, special place, pains me to see it all burn. I have unfinished business with a couple big bulls from the last couple years, probably on their way to reserve now.
 
>Not looking good, crossed over 159,
>now burning in mineral creek
>in 16a, sounds like it
>is blowing up. I have
>hunted 16a for 6 yrs
>in a row, special place,
>pains me to see it
>all burn. I have unfinished
>business with a couple big
>bulls from the last couple
>years, probably on their way
>to reserve now.
_____________________________________

Who are you buying your landowner tags from?
 
The elk and the fire command center are heading to Reserve. It is not looking good. Windy again today,and supposed to continue thru Sun. No rain in foreseeable future.
 
Got lucky and drew 2 archery tags and then bought LO tags from several people. You can pm me if you want more details.
 
Hope the winds that been hammering So Cal, don't make it to you guys, because if it does you will have 50-60 mph winds to push that fire.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-12 AT 11:10AM (MST)[p]Had gusts to 50mph yesterday and same predicted for today. Not good that the wind switched to S/SW. Now it's blowing the smoke North up this way.Sky is orange from the smoke and I can't see Allegres,Mangas,and Escondido Mtns,south of me. Now it's blowing harder than yesterday,past 60mph.Smoke blowing on one side of the valley and dust clouds on the other.Fire crews going thru Quemado south for staging,but no planes flying and no crews heading into fire area. Too dangerous for either,not good.
 
I have a unit 16A early archery elk tag this year so I'm really hoping they get a hold on this thing before too much longer.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-29-12 AT 02:17PM (MST)[p]>I have a unit 16A
>early archery elk tag this
>year so I'm really hoping
>they get a hold on
>this thing before too much
>longer.
____________________________

Why?

My only concern is the N-Bar ranch is surrounded by fire & I sincerely hope none of Preston's property or animals are damaged by the fire. The view from his front porch won't be pretty for a while, but his horses and cattle will surely enjoy the new growth later this summer/fall and beyond.

Secondly, its bad in small areas where it's torching everything to the ground.

lastly, fire is good in the Gila. The rains will come and grow new fresh green grass and the wildlife will benefit from the fire.

If I had a 16A tag this year I would be hoping the fire would continue to burn north further into 16A.

I guarantee you that the big arm the fire is burning from Corner Mtn to Eckelberger will be covered up in elk and hunters come September!

Besides, chances are pretty good that this fire torched a couple wolf dens and smoked out some pups!!

Remember one thing about hunting elk in the Gila - Find an old burn & you'll find elk!

Last year was no exception. The very first areas to green up were the most recently burned and that's where all the elk were.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-29-12
>AT 02:17?PM (MST)
>
>>I have a unit 16A
>>early archery elk tag this
>>year so I'm really hoping
>>they get a hold on
>>this thing before too much
>>longer.
>____________________________
>
>Why?
>
>My only concern is the N-Bar
>ranch is surrounded by fire
>& I sincerely hope none
>of Preston's property or animals
>are damaged by the fire.
>The view from his front
>porch won't be pretty for
>a while, but his horses
>and cattle will surely enjoy
>the new growth later this
>summer/fall and beyond.
>
>Secondly, its bad in small areas
>where it's torching everything to
>the ground.
>
>lastly, fire is good in the
>Gila. The rains will come
>and grow new fresh green
>grass and the wildlife will
>benefit from the fire.
>
>If I had a 16A tag
>this year I would be
>hoping the fire would continue
>to burn north further into
>16A.
>
>I guarantee you that the big
>arm the fire is burning
>from Corner Mtn to Eckelberger
>will be covered up in
>elk and hunters come September!
>
>
>Besides, chances are pretty good that
>this fire torched a couple
>wolf dens and smoked out
>some pups!!
>
>Remember one thing about hunting elk
>in the Gila - Find
>an old burn & you'll
>find elk!
>
>Last year was no exception. The
>very first areas to green
>up were the most recently
>burned and that's where all
>the elk were.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I guess that assumes they don't shut the unit down.
 
No, no, no.

1FastGambler doesn't know what he's talking about.

All of the 16's and Stinky's beloved 15 will burn and the elk will leave the state. So my advice to everyone is to not bother hunting elk in the Gila this year or applying there for a long, long time.

Maybe a few wolves will get BBQ'ed, but otherewise all hope is lost.
 
>No, no, no.
>
>1FastGambler doesn't know what he's talking
>about.
>
>All of the 16's and Stinky's
>beloved 15 will burn and
>the elk will leave the
>state. So my advice
>to everyone is to not
>bother hunting elk in the
>Gila this year or applying
>there for a long, long
>time.
>
>Maybe a few wolves will get
>BBQ'ed, but otherewise all hope
>is lost.
______________________________________

Haha! Yep, that's right! Elk smell smoke and RUN like their butts are on fire for 100 miles, just like the Disney show Bambi demonstrated.

Don't want anyone other than LTAlbq to apply for these precious elk tags!!

Get this... the containment lines that they are going to try to hold encompasses 300,000 acres!!!!!!!!!

From some of the pictures I've seen this afternoon this fire is crowning and torching everything in quite a few areas... NOT GOOD.
 
They might close the forest for awhile. Until the monsoons come maybe they should close it. We definately don't need more fires!

It will start raining in July and by early Sept you better take your snorkle and flippers, cuz it will probably rain all day, every day for a few weeks.
 
As I said in the other thread: the elk might return to the burned areas after the fire is out, but if it's anything like last year's Las Conchas fire, the Forest Service will rope off a big section, including unburned areas, and keep everyone other than official business out for the next year or so. It's [font color="blue" size="4"]for your own good [/font color="blue" size="4"]as they won't be able to [font color="blue" size="4"]guarantee your safety[/font color="blue" size="4"] from falling trees, rocks, and underground fires. They probably won't close the unit, but they'll tell you're not allowed in the burned area and offer you a refund...
 
LAST EDITED ON May-29-12 AT 09:48PM (MST)[p]They did the same thing when the Bear fire burned in 16B, only they closed roads, but that didn't stop everyone.

Only time will tell what happens. This fire will be the largest fire in NM history.

The FS should have allowed some logging to take place in the Wilderness. They have however allowed most fires to burn naturally in the wilderness areas. This fire has jumped and burned over some of the bear fire from just a few years ago.

I'm addicted to watching and reading all the news on this fire and I don't even have a tag there this year!

The falling trees is serious business. I've been in an old burn in 16A when the wind picked up and trees started crashing all around us. not fun. Not fun at all.
 
All kidding asside, I do agree that this is going to be a nasty one. I don't think it'll affect Stinky's unit 15 all that much, but it's going to raise hell in B and A.

Pretty crazy story about the falling trees.
 
>I looked at their proposed containment
>lines last night. Holy crap
>
______________________________

Amen to that! Grew another 20k acres in the last 24 hrs and is now the Largest Wildfire in NM history!!!

Fire is jumping and spotting a mile at a time in all directions!

Pray for cold weather, rain, humitidy, little wind, and lots more air tankers!

Maybe all the fire retardand they're dumping will help grow bigger antlers?!?
 
Last year while tromping around the Las Conchas burn (before getting the FS notice to stay away), it appeared to me that it was not the fire that picked off some elk, but the flash floods that came thereafter. I found three dead bulls in a small unburned area in the bottom of two different washs that were buried up to their necks in sand/mud from the runoff of the burned area above...
 
Unfortunately, I wasn't carrying a camera. They were certainly easy enough to find though--all you had to do was follow your nose...
 
So guys, honest opinion, is this going to ruin the hunt for those that have archery tags in 16a, 16b, 16d, etc?

I am one of those guys, and man I am SO bummed at this development.

Never hunted the Gila before, dont know what will be left of it, or if the elk will be back in there by September.


"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
Personally, I think anyone who drew 16A or 16B is hosed. Just don't see the units opening this year for hunting. In the best case scenario, I see portions of the units open for hunting....the non-burnt areas. The FS won't allow people into the burnt areas for their public safety - namely flash floods. With that said, if those portions are open, you will be camping upon each other with limitted hunting areas open..... Good luck with it.



JBone
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-12 AT 05:41PM (MST)[p]UtahMM,

I can't really say what the Forest Service or NMDGF will do--I'm only going off of my experience last year with a 6C archery tag and the Las Conchas fire.

The fire burned my honey hole beyond recognition, but I thought I was going to be okay per my scouting because the bulls were now all concentrated in the next canyon over in an unburned spot.

Then I got the notice from NMDGF showing the area that the FS had closed all public access. It was not enough for the FS to just say stay out of the burned areas--they drew a line around the 150,000 acres that included my previously scouted unburned canyon and said anyone caught inside that line would be subject to a fine up to $5,000.

The NMDGF was kind enough to offer a refund for my tag if I decided that it wasn't worth it, but I decided to keep the tag and hunt the unburned areas. I don't regret that decision at all--learned some new country. But the first day was a little uncomfortable when all 150 of us tag holders (or so it seemed) showed up to hunt the same square mile. I immediately moved further away and spent eight of the next 15 days exploring/hunting. I even had some opportunities to loose a broadhead, but chose to hold off for bigger. I was stalking a nice 6X6 on the last minute of the last day--just ran out of legal shooting light.

All this just to say it's hard to predict right now. Wait until the fire runs its course and then see what the FS intends to do...

Might be karma, but this year I drew a 16E archery...
 
...also, just to keep it interesting, you could get an OTC bear and/or turkey tag to go along with your elk tag. I may not have got an elk last year, but I did get both a turkey and a bear...
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-12 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]Unfortunately, I think Mozey is right and alot of 16b,a,and now maybe even d will be closed this year. My neighbor is a retired USFS Hydrologist/Geologist and is giving a talk tomorrow in Glenwood regarding a study he did of existing slides in the Whitewater drainage that could result in disaster if a significant rain event happens,now that it has burned. An event like a monsoon storm. Not a good scenerio. And being lawsuit shy as the FS is these days,they could shut down alot of 16's. They closed some of 23 last year during my hunt,and it was on the fringe of the burn. Karma,I drew 23 mz again. Maybe I'll get lucky and a few more elk will move into 23 this year. Still looking at a huge plume now to the south.
 
I'm sure they will shut down alot of the area's.
But in the years to follow it will be some of the best area's to hunt.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-12 AT 09:47PM (MST)[p]That makes two of us. I am one of those guys that has a tag.

I am seriously SICK over this. Sucks so bad....

I wonder if the NMGDF will offer refunds to those who drew 16a or 16b tags and if they DO, how many will take the refund.

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
My 16a LO tag now doesnt seem like such a good investment of my hunting budget! I know there will be some places the FS won't close, but not the experience one would hope for.
 
>My 16a LO tag now doesnt
>seem like such a good
>investment of my hunting budget!
>I know there will be
>some places the FS won't
>close, but not the experience
>one would hope for.
________________________________________

If you haven't converted it yet, you might want to consider selling it. This is NOT they year to hunt 16A or 16B!

I'll give you $500.00 for it. :)
 
Think I will pass on that offer. : )
Guess I will have to concentrate on my AZ unit 9 archery elk hunt, I'm sure there won't be any tears shed for me if the NM 16a archery LO tag is a bust this year.
 
Roado, I genuinely feel bad for everyone who has a 16A/B tag this year.

I hunted 16b in 2006 after the Bear fire. It sucked having the road down the west side closed. Some people drove around the barricades, but I wasn't willing to.

Hank, the air is clear & the skys are blue in Farmington today. Come on up for some fresh air & I'll buy you a cold one.
 
Thanks for the offer 1FG. Skies cleared up with a more NW wind. Still pretty warm. Looks like thunderheads trying over the Gila. Probably just a tease and more dry lighting I fear.Filled the stock tank yesterday for the critters here.
 
Doesn't look like you guys are getting any breaks with the fires down there.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
If you haven't already, check out the photo's related to the Whitewater on Flicker. There is a link on the InciWeb page.

Question - in areas where this fire has torched everything to the ground - what will it look like in the next 20 years?

I'm curious how the habitat will change in 5 year increments.
 
I've looked at fire recovery in Arizona and spent a little time on big fires in New Mexico and my impression is that much depends on what vegetation existed before the fire and how hot things burn. In mixed conifer with some residual aspen, a hot fire that clears all the conifer will allow an area to convert to aspen stand. The west side of the Sangres above Santa Fe is a good example of that. Aspen usually develops quite quickly, growing several feet a year and tall enough after five years to be out of reach of browsing.

Hot fires in dense ponderosa pine or pinyon juniper seem to recover more slowly and stay weedy or grassy for the first five years. It may take 10, 15 or even 20 years for the trees to begin to fully recover and out-compete the weeds. Parts of the Viveash fire that burned near Pecos in 2000 are still patchy with some small tree saplings and plenty of grass and annual weeds.

Plenty of plants re-sprout readily after fires like NM Locust, Aspen, Oak, Alligator Juniper, Mtn Mahogany and grasslands always seem to recovery within a year.

In terms of habitat, I think there is always much more feed after a fire, but the cover component takes a big hit.

Here's some repeat photos from the Cerro Grande fire in 2000:
http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/science/fire/CBI/sw-oth/recon-cerrogrande
You can see that recovery is pretty variable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-12 AT 01:10AM (MST)[p]Calm down fellas. All it's doing now is filling in the holes.


47243.jpg
 
I made it

KMZ file of the fire boundary and another KMZ with unit boundaries, over a streaming topo server overlay, which is over sat imagery, in arcgis explorer.
 
Hopefully they lift some of the restrictions in time for hunting season and don't leave them in effect until the end of the year. With a 16A tag in hand I'm sure hoping they open it up anyway!
 
Not to scare but who made the closure? Big fire in AZ last yaer, NF still has the closed areas closed until 1/1/13.

I feel for you guys but I would start looking at alternate plans just in case. It would STINK to draw then not be able to hunt, IMO F&G should issue the tags the next year to you, but I think the same thing happened in 6c and they did not?

Good luck
 
they offered the option of a refund last year to the 6c tag holders. i would think they do the same with this fire.
 
30% chance of T-storms today,come on rain. My neighbor is pouring over aerial photos and mapping slides for FS. They will use this info for the BAER team to assess threats for potential floods and mudflows.
 
TG thanks

A refund is not good enough IMO for guys who drew a 5% odds tag and likely would not again. Even if I had NOT drawn I would agree with this for guys who drew and could not hunt even if it made my draw odds tougher the following year.
 
Joe
You and the wife have what we call "Buzzard luck" hope they open part of it back up for the hunts.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
I see the FS has lifted a bunch of the restrictions in the wilderness. Hopefully they lift a bunch more by the end of August.
 

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