Has Colorado Peaked? All down hill?

[elks96]

So I have been asked this question a lot this year. From many different hunters I know. They are hunters of all types not just road hunters etc.

It seems like hunting in Colorado has taken a pretty big slide the last few years. Both deer and Elk hunt qualities seem to be lower. Especially the elk hunt quality/success rates. I have my own theories, but thought I would ask for some broader perspective.

I the NW areas where I am familiar with I have noticed a significant decrease in over all elk numbers. This is especially true in lower elevation units where there are not huge resident herds. Units like 21,22, 11, 3, etc. All seem to have smaller elk populations. This year was messed up with migration hunts due to the balmy weather we are still having. I believe that we saw significantly fewer elk in the alpine unit we hunt close to home(33) but we d not hunt elk in the unit so maybe it was just because we were looking for deer.

In unit 21 and 22 during the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rifle seasons we were seeing 1/3 the normal deer numbers (Again possibly due to lack of weather).

In many other units other hunters were reporting the same issues.

Was it just weather? Or have we turned a corner in Colorado where hunting is going to change soon?

What are your thoughts? I have a few that I will share after hearing other opinions.

 

[jims]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-17 AT 02:38AM (MST)[p]I don't know the exact percentages but believe around 85% of Colo's elk units are OTC. There has to be a breaking point for elk numbers and quality of experience..especially in units that have a high percentage of public land? I always get beat up every time I bring this up but have been waiting for the day that the CPW wakes up and converts over to all draw units for elk. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is impossible to manage elk and hunter numbers with an unlimited number of tags? Units with a high percentage of public land obviously get hammered pretty hard because there is no place for elk to wander onto private land where they are safe! Do you think elk learn to stay on private land as long as they can to avoid public land where there is OTC hunters?

Take a look at the "hero photos" of the whopper monstermuley bucks harvested in Colo this year on this website. The CDOW was bright enough many years ago to convert all deer units to a limited draw. The quality of bucks has exploded ever since. Obviously in the Gunnison Basin and NW Colo where there has been winterkill issues the deer population has had problems...but at least the CPW has been able to drop tag numbers to manage herd numbers.

In regard to NW Colo...that same corner of Wyo is having similar problems with low deer and antelope numbers. I have a feeling it's a matter of drought (years past) plus winterkill. Antelope numbers in that corner of Colo (on public land) have taken a nose-dive the past 10+ years. There were quite a few years of drought followed by winterkill...that's a pretty deadly combo for fawn recruitment. Predators obviously don't help!

Small town communities in Western Colo make their living off OTC elk hunters..so I don't blame them for not being in favor of limiting elk hunters. With all that said....I'm still dreaming of the day that Colo converts over to all limited draw for elk! Take a look over the border in Utah at the quality of elk in their limited units. Converting to all limited elk units would also mean that everyone that draws a bull tag would also burn pref pts. This would slow down the ever-increasing point creep that everyone seems to complain about! Anyone else share that dream?

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I do jims I would rather hunt quality bulls every few years than raghorns every year. I live in the SW part of the state and feel that are deer are doing good and I saw many quality bucks this season and punched my tag on one. Our elk are another story I believe there are a lot less than the CPW's counts show. Part of the problem was the extra cow tags and tons of late season private land cow tags. It took a huge toll on our overall herd numbers. My buddies and I get after it and we all agree that the elk numbers are just down and way lower than CPW's count

 

[Waygoner]

Given the CPW's funding trouble, I doubt they would ever consider going draw only for all elk tags. That's their cash cow and they're not going to touch it.

I spent an afternoon last weekend in one of my favorite deer spots in the Gunnison Basin. I was alarmed by the lack of animals. I sure hope it's due to the mild weather we're having, and not excessive winter kill from last year.

 

[El Gringo]

>I do jims I would rather
>hunt quality bulls every few
>years than raghorns every year.
>I live in the SW
>part of the state and
>feel that are deer are
>doing good and I saw
>many quality bucks this season
>and punched my tag on
>one. Our elk are another
>story I believe there are
>a lot less than the
>CPW's counts show. Part of
>the problem was the extra
>cow tags and tons of
>late season private land cow
>tags. It took a huge
>toll on our overall herd
>numbers. My buddies and I
>get after it and we
>all agree that the elk
>numbers are just down and
>way lower than CPW's count
>

^^^^^^^

+1!

 

[colelk]

This is a good topic, but not one that is easily answered. I have pretty good knowledge of a few areas, but certainly not the entire state. I live in the central mountains and am very familiar with units 34,43,444,47, and 471. I don't feel that the numbers of elk are down in this area, but I think the hunting has gotten more difficult as more elk seem to be staying longer on private land. On the other hand I personally know of more quality bulls being taken in the last few years than I ever remember. These are all OTC units.
I have also guided in Units 12,13,131,and 231 for many years. This is an area with big numbers of elk and I can see no noticeable difference in numbers of elk over the years. The deer in this area are definitely struggling though.
On a separate note I hunted deer 3rd season in one of the Northwest units that has seen a big drop in numbers since around 2008. I was warned on this forum and others that it was pretty marginal, but I didn't find that to be the case. I was pleasantly surprised at the numbers. This is one instance where I felt the DPW numbers were actually low, but it could have also just been luck that I got into a lot of animals. The rut seemed to be a bit early this year and that helped also. I'm attempting to attach a picture of the buck I shot, but not sure if I know how on this site. I am challenged in this area.

 

[COHunter]

The elk were all over GMU 13 (private) 3rd season, but only cows. Couldn't find a legal bull anywhere except for one day when I saw 3 but they were too far and little rags.

But deer numbers appeared to be WAY down this year, in fact each year for the last 5 years the numbers of deer are less and less in 13.

 

[sjhgraysage]

Seems to me that I recall that the State and the DPW have been on a several year mission to reduce elk numbers in most areas of Colorado. They used lots of cow permits and OTC bull tags to do this. Am I remembering it wrong??

 

[Cohntr62]

3 of us hunted unit 23 SE of Meeker 3rd season this year. The deer hunting was excellent as we all killed 150-160 class bucks and saw many more in that size range and I saw 1 true monster after I filled my tag.
The elk hunting was the opposite as we only saw 11 cows and no bulls in a week. We had our deer processed at Purkey's in Meeker and they told us that was the story this year, banner year for deer and a very slow one for elk. Our host told us the same thing as soon as we arrived.

 

[txhunter58]

I agree that limiting all elk licenses would improve things there. That said, it won't happen anytime soon. The DOW has painted themselves into a corner financially. They are topping out on the price on tags there (at least for NRs), and they would have to cut the tag numbers by at least half to help. And even doing that would increase success %, but not much increase in the overall quality of bulls. So unless they triple the resident prices, I can't see a way to make it happen. I am sure there are residents that would be OK with that, but not enough to matter. They have already lost 30,000 NR hunters to price increases there.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[HalfAce]

I think Colorado has most of its ducks in a row. Except when it comes to bears. Colorado needs a spring bear season. And longer fall seasons as well. Those things do damage to the elk calves and mulie fawns each year. I did a quick summer scouting trip in 16' and I found a a group of 45-50 cow elk, and I only counted 12 calves.

 

[jims]

I'd agree on the bears! It would be nice to have a spring season....like is available in just about every Western state plus Alaska! It would put a lot of fear back into bears and would be a fun thing to do in the off season. I believe this has been brought up before but was shut down...due to some lame excuses!

I'm not sure if I would agree about the license fee issue. There are always those that complain when license fee increases take place but the licenses still get sold. I'm always in favor of the "average Joe" hunter and it's pretty sad how much states are charging nonres to apply for pref pts and tags. Wyo charges $577 for regular and $1,057 for special elk tags...and those prices PLUS the pref pt fee are likely going up in the near future. I would actually be all for paying 3x times the res price for a res elk tag if they were willing to convert over to all draw elk units.

If all elk tags went to a draw at least the CPW would be able to manage the elk plus hunter numbers a little better. Just because Colo went to all limited units doesn't mean they would have to cut tags from how many they currently sell! There are quite a few decent deer units scattered across Colo where there are a lot of tags issued that can be drawn on a regular basis. Similar to Colo deer they would be able to manage deer tag numbers to herd and hunter numbers. Right now this is impossible!

Another major benefit to all draw for elk would be that pt creep would slow in a big way. Those that want to hunt Colo elk in Colo on an annual basis would have to burn pref pts rather than building pts while they hunt OTC elk every year.

 

[BeanMan]

I'd love to see Colorado go to draw only for Elk, especially archery. I don't think we will ever see a spring bear hunt again since our ?voters? decided that issue for us. I see more bears than ever before and wish they tasted better in the fall.

 

[tailchasers]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-17 AT 01:25PM (MST)[p]Colorado bear management mentality = Hunters can't harvest um for beneficial use but by golly we can pay a state employee to thin um down. Then also protest about the bears in there trash and the need to have a state employee put a 12 gauge slug in one near the elementary school.

Terrible dumb...

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[HalfAce]

If a spring bear hunt is out of the question (I wont argue whether it is or not) then the Fall season should be extended. Start the season up in August and have it run through November (any weapon). Similar to how Idaho hunts its wolves. Treat them more like predators and not as a game animal.

As with anything, I am sure there are many things that can be improved, but if I got to call the shots, ide start with hitting the bears hard.

 

[DW]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-17
>AT 01:25?PM (MST)
>
>Colorado bear management mentality = Hunters
>can't harvest um for beneficial
>use but by golly we
>can pay a state employee
>to thin um down. Then
>also protest about the bears
>in there trash and the
>need to have a state
>employee put a 12 gauge
>slug in one near the
>elementary school.
>
>Terrible dumb...
>
>"Courage is being scared to death
>but
>saddling up anyway."

No doubt! Bout like hiring sharpshooters to thin the elk in the park and leaving them lay in difficult areas, while the Park Service complains about being underfunded. You can't fix stupid!


#livelikezac

 

[DesertGhillie]

Yes, two years in a row now they've raised buck tag allocations for NW Colorado during substantial winter kill years for the mature age class of bucks. The rest of the state is doing much better, as the winters have been average. Most of the trophies coming out of the state this year are from central and southern Colorado.

And the crowding for elk hunters is insane! A draw system is needed to scatter pressure more evenly. I'm not sure WTF the CPW is thinking, except $$$$!!!

 

[elks96]

I kind of figured that this thread would take off in all sorts of tangents. That being said I am going to wrap my extended response around the original question...

Someone earlier touched on the primary issue I feel we need to consider...

Many of us were spoiled by the huge elk heard numbers we saw in much of the state in the late 90s and early 2000s. Those above objective numbers meant an ample supply of elk and as a result tags. Most of use have been able to hunt and harvest 2 elk a year for many years now as a result of the CPWs push to decrease herd numbers. I feel that we have made it past that hump and are now at a point where we are starting to recognize and notice the populations downward trend. Thus far the CPW has started to thin back opportunity in little increments, for example a few hunts codes have shifted from B list to A list. Some units especially in the NW have seen tag reductions specifically in hunts aimed at population control (December). We have also seen where the CPW is adjusting youth roll over tags and trying to limit opportunity on those (they are now assigned to specific regions etc.) As a result we are likely killing fewer elk because the populations are now back to desired levels (less surplus) and we are slowly having decreased opportunity. What we will likely see, a decrease in cow tags, we will still see OTC bull tags, and a decrease in B list tags. As a result pressure will be less. Forcing people to only hunt 1 elk tag a year can greatly decrease pressure. Also I foresee a time where youth tags will only be good for the regular rifle season offered and the late season, again decreasing the number of hunters in a specific season. I know that in my home unit they are starting to look at knocking the cow elk tags back...

For deer, we have no good answers. Having the tags 100% draw is our best tool. But as mentioned we have to watch the managers closely. there was no reason that the NW units should have increased buck tags by 10-15%. There were actually fewer bucks. The only reason they gave was buck to doe ratios (so because the hard winter knocked out an age class does we need to kill more bucks?)

I feel that elk hunting in Colorado reached a peak in terms of opportunity. I feel quality will remain the same... It is going to be years before we end up with the herds we have 15 years ago ad possibly never...

On a side note watch what they try to do with the CWD results. I am hearing rumors about the results that could be extremely alarming and down right scary...

 

[Elkduds]

Elks96 nailed it. CPW's target herd size is determined by habitat carrying capacity, and by complaints from property owners RE elk depredation. They aren't making any more habitat. In fact, development reduces the habitat available for wild species. So the future holds ever lower herd sizes and fewer hunting opportunities, as development continues.

 

[dirtygrass]

Too many predators, too many hunting licenses issued, too many people...

 

[jims]

Good point on managing elk numbers with cow tags. Obviously more cow tags=fewer cows=fewer elk.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-17 AT 07:18AM (MST)[p]Times change. Game populations and distributions change. My experience has been mixed on finding game in the same areas year after year, especially deer. Some years they're in one spot, and not the others. There's no super solid way to keep tabs on a population of wild animals. It's easier with more accounting of tags and especially harvests.