HD & Piper

Nemont,
Hell those to want Gov't health Care. ( that should tell you something...ha ha) Like the govt screwed up everything they have ever ran, and those 2 morons want to let something that important be ran by gov't. Even though it sucks everywhere they have it.
Gee why does all rich cats come to USA for Health Care? Could'nt be cause it's best in world is it? Dahhhhhhhh
 
bwnco,

I don't believe that either is a Moron. I just am trying to figure out exactly what their positions are. I beleive an extreme makeover on our health care system is long over due and government is the only entity that can even attempt to bring all stakeholders to the table and force a change. I also believe that the changed forced by government will certainly be more costly then they say, provide substanard care and lead to long lines to get care.

Nemont
 
NeMont, tell me please. Do we have a healthcare system problem or a health insurance problem? Thanks
 
your right NeMont, follow the money, the democrats won't even mention real reform, everything is a mess and I don't know whats going to happen. bwnco- there's a lot of room for improvement in health care, and a lot of options without going to a total government system, whatever that is?
 
>NeMont, tell me please. Do
>we have a healthcare system
>problem or a health insurance
>problem? Thanks

I truly believe we have a litigious society problem. Take away all of the frivolous medical related lawsuits and the costs would drop dramatically.

Scott
Member: RMEF, SCI, and NRA
 
nemont, tell me please. Do we have a healthcare system problem or a health insurance problem? Thanks
Click to expand...


BB,

I truly believe we have neither, what we have is a health care financing problem. That is different then both a system or an insurance problem.

Nemont
 
I ask myself, Do I want to get involved with this post?????? Talk about calling guys out!

Nemont, maybe I'm late to the game or perhaps I've missed out on another post. But the article states quite clearly that Toyota's request for financial assistance is due to a slump in auto sales and an increase bond yields to investors.

Is it me or 2.2% sound alot like nothing on a 10 year bond?

Am I missing something? I didn't see anything mentioned about their healthcare.
 
FTW,

Piper, HD and I have kind of been having a back and forth about alot of different issues. One being my utter dislike for bailing out GM. Health Care costs are always given as one reason that a bailout is necessary.

I posted this article to show that there are dynamics in the auto industry that would lead to big losses in GM even without their health care costs. Also I doubt anybody has looked at the kind of benefits GM line workers get, I just wrote a guy who was coming off of GM COBRA, let's just say that even congress doesn't have benefits as rich.

I still think everyone would be better off, well everyone except the Democrats voting block the UAW, would be better off if GM was allowed to enter Bankruptcy.

Nemont
 
Nemont I don't recall ever saying I was for government health care, I said I was open to any idea that would work and that nothing should be the table. I do however think that we could have government clinics for those who can't pay cheaper than sending them to high dollar hospital emergency rooms on our tab. beyond that it's beyond me, all I've ever said it we have to do something different.

Now on the Toyota loan, if the new #1 in the world auto maker and the apple of every free trade lover's eye Toyota is having tough times do you still think our auto industry sucks and should be let fall? you can bet your boots the japs will do whatever it takes to save their industry, they have in the past, does this change your opinion on saving ours? or like agricuture should American industial producers be left on their own to compete against competition with heavy subsidies and government help?
 
I don't think the goverment can do anything better then the private sector. I do beleive we need Tort reform, if you research alot of the high cost of Insurance is lawsuits. Alot of the high cost of medical care, is Doctors trying to make up the cost for having to treat all thoughs that dont pay.
So if there was less lawsuits, Insurance would be more affordable. I have yet to see the goverment run anything as good as capitalism. Yes it gets screwed up, yes there are some creedy SOB's out there. Yes we need some kind of reform to bring costs down. But i for one do not believe the goverment can do it better. They have screwed everything else up, you really want them have there hands in on something this important?
I do think anyone whom wants goverment control of health Car is a MORON.. in the truest since of the word, some one whom lacks the knowledge or does not seek the knowledge of a situation or can not understand the repercussions....
 
bwnco;

I do not think having tort reform is the answer to high medical costs. They tried it in CA. and it did not work. Ca. passed a law to prevent high dollar awards in civil lawsuits with the promise it would help lower medical costs and insurance coverage premiums for doctors and hospitals.
It lowered the amount you can win in a civil lawsuit from millions to just $250,000.00. Guess what, medical costs did not go down.

RELH
 
Bunco I have no doubt you know a moron when you see one, you look at one in the mirror every morning.

Government can't always do things cheaper, but sometimes they can provide a service that's good enough at a reasonable cost, schools and roads for example.

Free clinics might be able to take the burden off the rest of us by using tools the industry doesn't want those of us who pay to have, like generic drugs bought in huge quantity on bid. would government doctors drive Bentleys? probably not, they'd get paid better than a teacher but not like the elite private sector, would they be the finest doctors money can buy? who cares as long as they're legal doctors licensed to practice? here again I'm not saying this is the answer but only a moron would say at this point in developing a new plan that it couldn't save money. we're going to pay for these people, we are today, so nothing should be off the table. it's just an idea and better than your plan of no plan.
 
From what ive read about calif. Hospitals and Doctors there are forced to treat so many people without insurance that they pass that cost onto the people whom can pay with inflated expenses to help cover there losses for ones whom cannot pay. I think that is same thing going on across country. I cannot help but think if a lawsuit goes from 5 mill in damages to 250k that the insurance company stands to loose alot less money and should, pass the savings on to its insured.. I say should, im not saying they do. All i know for sure is, the last thing i want the gov't to get there hands on is health care. Could grief they can not run anything efficient. They would destroy it. Also reading about socialized med and having friends in Canada. I for one, dont want to be told when and when not i can have a knee replacement or lazik surgery on my eyes. I do agree something needs to be done, but I for one, do not believe the goverment is the answer, i think there the problem in most cases.
 
quoted from HD "who cares as long as they're legal doctors licensed to practice?"

I for one care tons that the doc whom works on the people I love are much more then just licensed to practice. I also think that any Doc that can but my daughters knee back together so she can walk again, deserves to drive any car he wants. They work there butts off going to med school, internships, and without the rewards they get, we would'nt have the Docs we have now. There is a reason why wealthy people come to USA from countries with socialized medicine to get treated. In some areas the school systems are great, but its state run not FED gov't. Look at the difference in public school systems between say Utah and Wash DC. its nite and day. There are some private school ran systems that per child dollar is lower then say DC by half. No, I don't see anything gov't can run better then the private sector. Doesn't mean I don't think some free clinics are not important in impoverished areas. But i do not want gov't having there hands on the whole system. I don't think its any one thing, pharmaceuticals need to make a profit to stay in business and do research, so whats a far profit? I do think Tort reform would bring down insurance costs. I don't think people whom take care of themselves should be put in the same well as someone whom is an abusive IV user and i have to pay for his sins from higher healthy care costs or insurance rates. I think if everyone paid there fair share costs would go down for everyone.
 
If you're going to a free clinic you should be able to expect a legal competent doctor, if you want House pay for him yourself. that's what I was saying.

Did you send your kids to private school or public schools? how did you decide what was good enough ? did cost enter into your decision?
 
Not that it really matters because i think it relates to where you live but I sent my daughter to public schools. The system here is small and very country, when she got into highschool and around more liberal agenda, she hated it and she homeschooled. The homeschool program was tons more expensive then public, but it's what worked for us. It allowed her to school in morning and ride her horses and practice in afternoon.
No one can convince me the gov't can fix healthcare when they have made a shambles out of everything else. Including state gov't in some school systems, mostly the inner city's, there a joke. They keep throwing more money at it to fix it, when one of the lowest per kid dollar spent amount in North Dakota's test scores are much higher then test scores of the kids in say Wash DC where they have one of highest dollar amounts per student.
If your going to a free clinic of course the Doc should be legal. But seeing how my mom worked her knees to the bone to pay our bills, I think everyone should pay in someone. To many lazy SOB's in this country, trying to live off the Gov'ts Teat...
 
bwnco-It sounds to me like you have a built in prejudism, and it clouds the way you think, kids are kids and private schools in inner cities take mostly wealthy students with stable families, the problem with public schools in those places is much the same as the problem with the inner cities themselves. The government is much of the reason you have highways to drive on, the internet to blog on, the clean air many people get to breathe, and clean water they get to drink, safe food to eat, ect. its far from perfect, but the our government is essential for our quality of life. Think about things and try a little less hatred, it would do you good. All these people don't come from all over the world to get American health care, give me a break, some people come, some leave, its the same as most places, I went to Mexico for health care once, my wife goes to Peru, a wealthy guy that lives nearby went to Brazil, I had a friend that got his eyes done in Canada, some people that suffer pain get their hips replaced in Thailand because they can't afford it here, and they say the care is excellent. Just because some right wing talking head says it, doesn't make it so. The world is going to go on, with or without you, open your eyes and live, love life and learn, or you can close them, cuss everybody thats not like you and wallow in right wing hatred.
 
What is this thing with all the flag waving GI Joe captian america types? they love their country, don't screw with us or we'll kill you, America is the greatest blah blah blah. THEN, they can't wait to tell you how much they hate our leadership, our government, the way the people are " held down ", how we've lost our way and more blah blah blah.

I love this county, I think it's the best nation on earth, I always have and I still do. do I think it's perfect? no, do I think our government is perfect ? no, do I think our government can do nothing right? hell no, we need to be vigilant about how our government conducts itself but in the end we are the government, nothing has changed about that in over 200 years just as our founding fathers intended.

I get sick of this Bubba victimization crap that flows around here non stop. the will of the people is being done by those they elect, if you don't like it vote in someone else just like we did in objection to Bush and his chronies. this talk of a revolt because you're to weak to elect morons to do your will is un american, we change things every 2 years, this is how Americans get it done. if this is unsatisfactory to you we don't need you, you're free to go. our government isn't an evil empire, it's us, wise up to this .
 
HD,

First off the whining from the left was as bad. You stated over and over that it is your right to disagree with anything and everything you want as an American citizen. I can pull the quotes and threads.

You complained about nearly everything that the Bush administration did. Now that the shoe is on the other foot you want everyone else to just shut up and support this president? Kind of a one way street with you isn't it?

If it was okay to disagree with Bush why isn't it okay to whine about Obama and his policies?

Do you want me to show where liberals stated that if Bush were elected they would leave this country? or that there should be a revolution to end GWB "dictatorship"?

Why was it okay for you to complain and b!tch and moan nearly everyday on this forum but not okay for the other side? Do you believe that those opposed to what is going don't love America as well? That sounds an aweful lot like the rhetoric that came out of the Bush White House.

Nemont
 
It's not at all the same because not once did I ever even indicate I thought we should have a revolt, I never even supported an impeachment campaign, I didn't feel it was warranted.

To disagree with government policy or elected politians is fine, and we need it, telling people to stock up on ammo because we're going to have to fight for our rights is not close to the same thing. I was an idiot and voted for Bush in 2000, voted against him in 2004 and was disapponted, watched him and his type get destroyed in 2006 and 2008. yes I griped a lot, and our system corrected what was wrong, in less than 2 years we'll have mid terms and we can correct some things there IF the people feel it's needed. in 2012 we can make major changes IF the people desire, until then it's your right and duty to question our government, but not to encourage it's overthrow.

There is a huge difference in what I'm saying and what you're indicating I said, I hope this clears it up.
 
Are you really scared of a revolution? Is it not in every Americans right to voice their opinion of what the direction of this country should be, even if that includes a revolt?

Why isn't it a right to advocate the overthrow of the government?

Just curious why you draw the line there?


Nemont
 
No I'm not scared of it at all, because these type of people are a vast minority.

Are you saying we should repect Timothy McVeigh types as long as they have better timing? the only difference between him and some of the ding bats I'm hearing is he had the guts to act, I see no positive aspect of this attitude. when and if Amereica needs a revolution good Americans will stand up and take action, that isn't today.
 
So you can define who is and who is not a "good" American?

Still sounds like the Bush White House talking points to me.

Nemont
 
I'm going to step out on a limb and say Timothy McVeigh and people like him are not good Americans, that includes those who agree with him they just don't have the guts to act.
 
So anybody who is stocking up on ammo is in the same league as Timothy McVeigh? How do you know that McVeigh didn't have a valid point?

Why do you get to decide?

Nemont
 
Com'on you're not one of those. when did he bomb that building ? 10 years ago or so? has anything happened since that time that warranted that kind of action? are you now in chains because you failed to finish his job? what makes you think our government is going to do anything in the next 10 years to warrant a war on them either?

I'll play along and say ok McVeigh was a hero, he and his kind are our saviors and will overthrow our government and liberate us. but just excatly will we have afterwards? will it be better or worse? give me a break if these nut jobs ever get control don't think it will be like 1776 again.

As far a stocking up on ammo that's just panic for sake of panic. I can see taxes or price increases and that alone would mske stocking up a good idea, but I don't read anything more than that into it. once the hysteria dies down and the shelves are restocked I'm going to buy some powder and primers just incase the cost goes up.
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

Piper,

Well yes Piper there are a few exceptions to the rule. But as a whole, I dont think you see people lining up to go to Brazil for health care. Also, if pointing out that inner city public schools are worse then most country public school makes me prejudice, then I guess im prejudice. First time ive ever been called that for speaking the truth, thats so funny. Has nothing to do with hate, but you are talking like a pure liberal. I went to a private school, Catholic to be exact. My mom worked her butt off to get us all threw there. She never wants took a vacation. So ya, oh stupid me thinks one should work for what they get, instead of coming to freeload off the gov't like alot of them do. Is it a majority, no, never said that, but there are a ton of people white, black, brown that sucks off the gov't teat and my tax dollars. If more government is the answer for everything then why has socialism failed miserably everywhere it has been tried? We don't need gov't in every aspect of our lives to be successful. We have as a nation for like 232 years kicked butt and it wasnt until last 40 some year when the great society nuts came along and started to quadruple the size of government. The central government was originally formed to regulate commerce amongst the states, and to protect our borders, that was it. We got along fine previous 190 some odd years with out them in ever walk of our lifes, why do you think now, it takes the goverment to run everything? Our government is not what made America great, it was individual freedoms and capitalism. Not a socielistic platform.
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-09 AT 02:21PM (MST)[p]No I don't think McVeigh was a hero. No I don't advocate revolution nor do I think that one is coming soon. I do think that your post about posts sound just like what came out of the Bush White House.

Americans, even Republican or conservative Americans, have every right to even openly cheer for the failure of a presidents policies or advocate revolt. I don't support such notions but that is their right.


Nemont
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

Agreed it is their right I'm not arguing that, but to say our government is out of hand and we need to overthrow them today makes no more sense than it did when McVeigh bombed the Murrah building. I consider them all bad Americans and that's my right, and if they try what they're advocating for I hope they end up like McVeigh did.


If things get to the point we need to attack our own government we won't need two bit GI Joes telling us, we'll know.
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

Then why do you care if these "bad" Americans do whatever it is they do? As long as it isn't hurting you or infringing upon your rights then ignore it. Isn't that your standard for how those opposed to gays should deal with that issue?

Also by your standard would the American revolution been necessary or advisable? Those fighting to throw out the English were considered rabble and stupid.

Nemont
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

If gays start bombing federal buildings and murdering hundreds of people I'd put them in the same category as McVeigh and the GI Joes. just because they're fruits doesn't bother me a bit, I see no comparison.

It would be a matter of opinion when a revolution would be warranted, in my opinion when the constitution was not being upheld , and I don't mean taxing 357 shells I mean a serious departure from what we should expect from our constitutional rights. here again this is my opinion, but I think most Americans agree, McVeigh is proof were aren't there yet because people cheered when we killed him. they'd do the same today so my advice would be hold off a bit.
 
RE: HD & Piper..PiperGood Grief

If McVeigh would have set that truck in the middle of the Senate you probably would have heard less cheering when they fried him. Not that im for bombing anyone, but people loath Wash DC at this point. He attacked the wrong building, if he wanted any backing at all.
 

Similar threads

M
Would have been 17 Sunday
Replies
55
Views
2k
hawkbill
hawkbill

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

001.JPG
Dillon_Hoyt_9_11_2017-32.jpg
20231002_202019.jpg
IMG_3548.jpeg
IMG_20200704_153421_246.jpg
High Country Camping
4D54DBDE-B105-4F45-9328-F78A7F1BBCAB.jpg
Screenshot_20220222-101151.png
49168734-877B-4638-AAAC-4366691D7F85.jpeg
AC699075-D216-42D1-865C-4400BDCDD292.png
131648.jpeg
IMG_3858.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom