How to field judge big bulls??

fuzzyvelvet

fuzzyvelvet

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Alright, I finally drew a Bookcliffs ML elk tag and now I need some help on how to field judge big bulls. I have not had the luxury of a bunch of you guys to regularly see big bulls on the hoof, so I need some hints on how to know what a 320, 330, & 340 bull looks like? Anything bigger than that, I don't need to know because it will be dead no matter what. How do you know; what do you do to compare tine length, main beam, mass, etc? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Fuzzy
 
One of the best things you can do in my opinion is to watch as many elk hunting dvd's you can. Pay attention to what the animal looks like as it comes in and as it gets closer. You need to watch hunts with average bulls as well as big bulls. Another thing I done which helped me was to go into places like Cabelas, Sportsmens, etc. and look at the bulls from a distance and judge them and then work closer and then see what they score.. You will find the more animals you look at the better you will be able to judge. Then spend as much time as you can looking at bulls out in the hills. It is basically like anything else...practice, practice, practice... I've seen some guys who I call very good at field judging, really miss bad on a score once in a while, so it is not fool proof...
Good Luck
 
Antlerrick is right about guys making mistakes. Last fall, I and another friend were helping a buddy who had a Nevada tag. We saw some really nic bulls, but we all misjudged the bull my buddy shot. We got a preliminary idea of his size from about a mile away and decided he was worth checking out further. The idea we had of his size ended up being off by about 35", and this was by three guys who've taken 30+ bulls between them, with about 10 of those being 6 pt'ers. When they got up closer to the bull, the situation didn't allow a lot of time, so they just assumed the bull was as big as we thought when looking earlier. BIG MISTAKE! The bull turned out to be a runt in body size, and the horns matched.

We have a fair bit of experience, but got careless and it cost my buddy as he shot a bull smaller than he'd have taken if he/we would have taken more time and been more careful.
 
When your off on the beam and the mass you are in big trouble. Bulls with a short beam and long points end up being over scored and bulls with alot of mass end up being under scored and vice versa IMO. Find a bull with a good beam first.
 
A couple of different ways I use, but it also depends on how much time you have to look one over.

First, start at the back. It's easy to make a quick count and get to six, start looking at the length of the sixth points and work backwards. Big scoring bulls have a large split from the G5's to G6's. G4's almost always look big due to the split so take a glance, but usually hard to judge. Go to the G3's. These typically will tell you quickly if it is a really good scoring bull. Many times, the G3's seem to lack on mid sizes from 300-320 class bulls. Browtines will be the last determination, but typically follow suite on tine length with the G3's.

Second, try to get two angles before pulling the trigger if it's even possible. One broadside, one either straight on, or behind showing length of beam and width. Finally, pull the trigger!

P.S. I drew the late season rifle tag Book Cliffs this year also, any scouting reports after you're done would be greatly appreciated!

tc
 
Some great advise here! The only thing I would add is a little trick I use that is by no means a secret. Peak talked about main beam length and mass.....
main beam length - I look to see how far apart the points are that are coming off the main beam as well as how far the end of the main beam is from the 5th point. There should be at least 12" between tines to hit the 50" mark on the main beam.
mass - if the main beam is not significantly larger around than the tines coming off them you won't hit the 30" mark for mass.

A lot of bulls have great tine length and lose plenty of inches on mass and MB length. Also, my advice is to not get too stuck on a number and look for a bull that you like. I have seen plenty of great bulls taken that people were disappointed in because they let "the score" get in the way of a successful hunt.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
awholelotta's last piece of advice might be the best advice yet. Don't get all hung up on score. I'm amazed at the guys who have to kill a 350 bull, but who've never even taken a 320 bull. On most hunts, if you can take a mature 6x6 bull, you should be thrilled regardless of how many inches it is.

I've got a great elk tag for this fall, monroe archery. That's a unit that a lot of guys would say you hold out for a 370 or bigger bull. While I really do hope to kill a bull in that category, that'll only happen if I get an opportunity at one that size before I get an opportunity at a smaller bull, say something over 340'ish. A 340s class bull is a helluva nice elk, better than most guys will ever kill. I'm going back there hoping to take one of my two or three biggest bulls ever, but he doesn't have to be the biggest bull I've ever taken, and probably won't be.
 
Jim,
Those are very wise words. The hunts would be more enjoyable if we all just found the animal we liked, and enjoyed the hunt for what a hunt really is. The time shared with others to create memories is what it is all about..the scores is just a figurative painting we use to express our achievement.
I still remember the first spike bull I shot and it was still one of the most memorable and exciting hunts I have ever had.
Just go out and enjoy!!!!!

and bring home a 400 inch bull.....lol
 
My method is pretty simple. If the heart is pounding, and a heart attack is iminent, it is time to shoot.

Scoutdog
 
Another one that works is if i see the bull, and immediately say "holy @#^%$%%^^&%$$##$%%%^, it is time to shoot.

Scoutdog
 
LAST EDITED ON May-04-08 AT 09:00AM (MST)[p]You will be dissapointed for ever if you cant acheive your goal take the advice from antlerrick and you will have a great time and hunt no matter what.Just remember do not shoot anything under a 380 plus. Hey thats not giving any added pressure is it?HA
 
My advice is similar. Spend lots of time scouting and looking at real Bulls on the hoof. Shoot a Bull that looks big to YOU! Ignore scores and leave the tape measures at home!!
 
Thanks CAelknuts & antlerrick, great posts! I too drew a tag for this fall like I have never seen before and will never see again(Utah LE archery). I have talked to a half a dozen outfitters, many who are more worried about score and filming my hunt than I am. Believe me it would be a dream come true to shoot a 370+ Utah bull, but I'm not gonna let anybody make me feel bad if I shoot "only a 320 bull". One of my goals is quite simple, shoot a bull, period! I fully realize the caliber of tag I have drawn and if I shoot a big'un, that's even better. Thanks again guys for your down to earth posts!

Sukie
 
I can guarantee you this, the guy that goes out looking for a good looking bull he likes, will be a lot more satisfied with any bull he kills versus the guy that sets his sights at a 380 and then happens to put one on the ground and then gets up to it and it is ONLY a 360. A guy can really put enough pressure on himself to ruin a good hunt if he gets into score too deep.
 
I agree with all of the above posts and think there is some good advise there. One thing that I will add when field judging bulls is also pay attention to width. Everyone gets hung up on width with mule deer but seem to discount if with elk, yet it plays just as important of a roll in scoring elk as it does with deer. I shot a bull last season that, had he not been busted up, would have been a 340 class 6 point. I had the luxury of being 200 yards from him without him having a clue I was there and I was able to analyze him for a good 15 minutes before pulling the trigger. I knew exactly what he was, and knew the busted points weren't an issue cause they could be easily fixed. My reservations were in the width as he had great main beams (51") and good points (fronts were pushing 18"). However, he was only around 30 wide and I knew that would hurt him. I still thought he was a shooter and shot him and have never regretted it. Had he been 10" wider he would have been 350+. All I can say is practice judging bulls like everyone has said. Earlier in my hunt I had a bull shot out from under me that I field judged at 375. He ended up scoring 373. It's all about practice. Good luck.
 
Sukie, one other thing that'll go a long way toward having an enjoyable hunt is to remember that you're hunting for YOU. I don't have a problem with guys wanting to film a hunt, but remember that this is YOUR hunt, not theirs. You can get caught up in what they need rather than enjoying your hunt, and while you might get a video of it, worry about having a great time, not if you help them make a video. I've been on a couple hunts where guys wanted to video, and we talked about it ahead of time and I simply let them know that they were welcomed to video us hunting as long as it didn't get in the way of my hunt, and that I wasn't inclined to wait on shooting an animal so that they could get it on film. One hunt was an elk hunt, and the guy was able to get some nice footage of me taking my biggest bull ever, and he didn't interfere with me hunting. The other time was a Montana Mtn. goat hunt, same thing, the guy with the camera stayed out of the way with it, never interfered and would have gotten some fantastic footage if I'd decided to pull the trigger on a nice billy that I watched for over 8 minutes at less than 100 yards, but I was waiting for a bigger goat to show himself and ended up coming home without firing a shot. He sent me a nice short video of the footage he took, nice memento of a nice hunt.
 
Thanks CAelknuts, I agree totally. That is my point about some conversations I've had with outfitters about how big of bull to shoot. I have actually chosen an outfitter that doesn't care about filming my hunt professionally. I was worried about some of the outfitters were more worried about getting video of my hunt than the animal I'm after. I was also concered that if I told them I didn't want or wasn't worried about video that I wouldn't get put on the same caliber of animals! Call me paranoid. I'm am going to have to rely on my previous elk hunting experience, my guide and my gut for this one, but I can hardly wait!!!

Sukie
 
As has been said. "Find a bull you like". Higher score doesn't mean bigger bull and especially prettier bull. I've seen bulls in the 390's that I didn't really like and bulls in the 340's that were gorgeous. Score is just something somebody invented a long time ago to compare animals. There is nothing like practice that can prepare you for field judging. There is also no shortcut. Most of us who have done it well want to have plenty of time looking through good glass at every particular and that isn't always possible. Where I hunt a good frame will be 190 to 200. I would say average width for a good bull is around 38". I like to see the beems to the top of the back if he is feeding with his nose to the ground. (easier to say than see) If I feel like a bull has a good frame then I start looking for a 15" average on tines. 15" g3 is good. 15" g5 is exceptional. etc. With that I'm at 340 - 350 and its time to get serious, even in the best units. So. Utah will probably get you a little better average frame with some being 20" better.
 
if it looks like someone photoshopped the antlers on time to shoot!!!!

i am no scoring guru but this is what i use to quickly get an idea of a bull

big bulls have at least 10" of space between the g3-g5
big bulls main beams will be 28"-30" from the g1-g-4
look for strong main beams and 5ths
the average inside spread of a 350" bull is 40"
score as many antlers and mounts as you can get your hands on then as you improve guess the score then tape them.

write down all measurements in the field and out of the field.

have fun with it!!! don't set un realistic goals and don't let others infuence your hunt!! a few years ago i shot a 340" archery bull and some guy called it a "dink".. not!!! maybe if your "mr mossback" you can have a littler higer expectations but the average guy with average time had to set real goals.oh yeah and "pick a spot"!!

good luck on your hunt
ajoe
 
Thanks birdbuster! The only real "practice" I will get is looking at photos or watching videos. The parameters you outlined are short, simple and concise! That is all the time a flatlander like myself may have in the field! This has been a very informative post guys, thanks.

Sukie
 
How I field judge a bull/buck

I start looking for elk or deer early in the year. I locate several bucks or bulls. Out of all the bucks and bulls I find I try for the largest one I have located. You will know you have taken a great buck/bull if you are successful with this method.

Don?t care what it scores until it is home on the wall.

good luck
 
Like most of the previous posts have said, "be happy with your bull." Don't let score be the thing that makes you happy. I am not an experienced elk hunter, but drew an awesome CWMU tag in 2004. I was able to harvest a great bull. Experienced hunters and friends quickly scored him and told me that I had killed a 400 bull. I was too inexperienced and dumb to realize what that meant. After the 60 day drying period, I had it officially scored and the official B&C score was "only" 366 net.
I was happy with my bull until I let other convince me that the score and the book were the most important thing. I pouted and sulked about the score for awhile but soon realized that I had the bull of lifetime and a bull that was better than many that would score higher. I would post a picture but don't know how. Look in the 2004 Big Bucks and Bulls at John's 390+ bull.
 
Thanks for all the help....does anyone have any tips like, looking at the length of the nose to compare browtine length or at the size of ears for mass? Or how about main beam length compared to where it reaches the back? Thanks for the responses.

Fuzzy
 
Just don't suck into the guy who says this-

"It's antlers reached so far back he could scratch his butt with them!"

A bull would have to have antlers 70" long to actually do that!!








Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
Geeeeez Slam!
That's my favorite one to hear...
Then I just laugh in their face and call bs..
And I think they'd have to be longer than 70"..
It is funny how many guys look you right in the eye and tell you that!!!!!
 
Rick-

When i hear that statement from someone, i instantly know right then and there that they are true fisherman, and fisherman are liars.....12" is really 10. Lol

........and i know i need to get my hip boots on, cuz it's about to get deep!!







Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
I just found out a way to field judge I have never heard of...first thing you do is start with a base of 200. If the bull has better than everage mass, length on his main beams, or width, you should add a little to the base score. If he has short beams, narrow spread, or less than average mass, you should take away from the base score. Next add up the tine length on one side of the bull (I have been using the base of the antler to the tip of the nose as 16 inches to compare). Take that number and double it, then add it to the original 200 unless you changed it because of mass, mb length, or width.

I have tried this method on a lot pictures with scores and I'm usually pretty close (within 10 points. The toughest part is being accurate with the tine length. Just thought I would share...it has been very helpful for me.

Fuzzy
 
Good info, I learned something today.

I got a bit different method. First off I look at a ton of racks and watch a bunch of videos. I call it a 2 second score. My buddies and I challenge eachother with quick calls or 2 second scores just for fun. Sometimes you don't have all the time in the world. You can play watching a video and put up camp chores or money for fun. One suggestion, open a new video or one you haven't seen for a few years...So here's my two cents.

Nose is 18"

If the bull has 15" all the way up and decent mass/width = 350 class.

14" all the way up and decent mass/width = 340 class.

12" all..... = 320 class

18" all..... = hurry and shoot

You can add/subtract from there, but it will get you in the ball park (USUALLY, NOT ALWAYS)


HK



GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
 
fuzzy,
its like most things time and looking at and scoring lots of antlers will give you ideas on 320 type bulls 340 type bulls and 360 bulls ect.i stopped at 360 because most guys should not pass a 360 class bull.the truth of it is scoring can get too complex and unless you can pattern a bull and be assured you can find him once seasons start all the technical scoring can only be used on video or at long range spotting.when a 350 type bull is coming through the woods busting branches .pissing himself and everything in his path and screaming his lungs out and frothing at the mouth(did miss anything?) all the mumbo jumbo goes out the window.get good at juding quick with just a look because that is the way it normally happens.
you asker for some anatomic references below are some from arizona bulls
and keep the "too much time on your hands" coments to yourselves)
main beam average length to g-4 28-30"
antler pedical to nose 17-18"
eye to jaw 10"
eye to eye 10"
eye to nose 13"
back to belly 25-28"
when a bull has his nose up great main beams will touch the 5-6 rib (not the arse)

a 360 bull will have no apperant antler weaknesess......DON'T PASS HIM

you see what i mean about just get good at looking at a bull a guessing.because remember which pin to use is hard enough for most to remember at "go time"

ajoe
 

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