Hunter Nation worth a darn?
- Thread starter elks96
- Start date
Hunter81
Member
- Messages
- 42
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19 AT 10:15PM (MST)[p]Check out the ?team?
https://hunternation.org/team/
Shows who is involved in the organization.
https://hunternation.org/team/
Shows who is involved in the organization.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,723
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19
>AT 10:15?PM (MST)
>
>Check out the ?team?
>
>https://hunternation.org/team/
>
>Shows who is involved in the
>organization.
I just went to that link to have a look and now I need to go shower.
>AT 10:15?PM (MST)
>
>Check out the ?team?
>
>https://hunternation.org/team/
>
>Shows who is involved in the
>organization.
I just went to that link to have a look and now I need to go shower.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"I just went to that link to have a look and now I need to go shower."
Do you know these men and women? Have you spent time getting to know these men and women?
Are your conclusions based only upon your prejudices and online gossip? Please expand and elaborate on why you would decide they are so much dirtier than your perfect self?
Do you know these men and women? Have you spent time getting to know these men and women?
Are your conclusions based only upon your prejudices and online gossip? Please expand and elaborate on why you would decide they are so much dirtier than your perfect self?
Outdoordan
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,142
Personally I have no interest. Just say NO to self adulation.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,723
>"I just went to that link
>to have a look and
>now I need to go
>shower."
>
>
>Do you know these men and
>women? Have you spent
>time getting to know these
>men and women?
>
>Are your conclusions based only upon
>your prejudices and online gossip?
> Please expand and elaborate
>on why you would decide
>they are so much dirtier
>than your perfect self?
I've sat in a couple of meeting where Peay day attended and he is the kind that would sell his mother if the price was right. He has done the people of Utah no favors. Chaffetz is no friend of public land hunters and is a typical politician. He is out to feather his own nest.
The rest are just typical TV hunters. They couldn't kill a Ground dog without a private lease or an outfitter.
>to have a look and
>now I need to go
>shower."
>
>
>Do you know these men and
>women? Have you spent
>time getting to know these
>men and women?
>
>Are your conclusions based only upon
>your prejudices and online gossip?
> Please expand and elaborate
>on why you would decide
>they are so much dirtier
>than your perfect self?
I've sat in a couple of meeting where Peay day attended and he is the kind that would sell his mother if the price was right. He has done the people of Utah no favors. Chaffetz is no friend of public land hunters and is a typical politician. He is out to feather his own nest.
The rest are just typical TV hunters. They couldn't kill a Ground dog without a private lease or an outfitter.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"I've sat in a couple of meeting where Peay day attended and he is the kind that would sell his mother if the price was right. He has done the people of Utah no favors."
SO you really don't know much about him? Did you talk to him? Ask him any questions?
" Chaffetz is no friend of public land hunters and is a typical politician. He is out to feather his own nest."
I'm out to feather my nest. You aren't?
"The rest are just typical TV hunters. They couldn't kill a Ground dog without a private lease or an outfitter."
Really? How did you come to that conclusion? If that was correct why would that make them dirty and something that makes you need a shower just for looking at their faces on a web page.
The more you type the more you are looking more and more like a self-righteous snob.
SO you really don't know much about him? Did you talk to him? Ask him any questions?
" Chaffetz is no friend of public land hunters and is a typical politician. He is out to feather his own nest."
I'm out to feather my nest. You aren't?
"The rest are just typical TV hunters. They couldn't kill a Ground dog without a private lease or an outfitter."
Really? How did you come to that conclusion? If that was correct why would that make them dirty and something that makes you need a shower just for looking at their faces on a web page.
The more you type the more you are looking more and more like a self-righteous snob.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,723
>The more you type the more
>you are looking more and
>more like a self-righteous snob.
>
LOL. Coming from you I will take that as a compliment.
>you are looking more and
>more like a self-righteous snob.
>
LOL. Coming from you I will take that as a compliment.
Soj51hopeful
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,479
Looks like they want to unify hunters voices and try to reduce the dog eat dog our little world experiences too much of. I don't know most of the line up, but I can't see Jim Shockey being apart of anything bad for hunting.
johnnyutah
Active Member
- Messages
- 125
I don't have to personally know a person to disagree with their politics and their agenda.
Don Peay infiltrated the Utah DWR like no other. When SFW got the bid for the Utah Expo, my fears that a government wildlife department had been hijacked were confirmed. The UDWR overtly held the door open for SFW when it should have been shut. Sure this was discussed on the internet, but that doesn't make it false.
I personally heard Don describe SFW as "representing all sportsmen." I then watched SFW for years to see if they would ever push a policy decision that would enhance the general hunt. I eventually realized they do not represent me as a sportsman. Most hunters do not meet the SFW definition of a sportsman. Virtually every policy decision they pushed hurt general hunters and/or helped the big money, exclusive hunts. I'm not interested in habitat improvement that comes with the price of fewer hunting privileges. So many things they pushed for didn't help the herd.
They just diminished opportunities with no apparent payoff. Habitat improvement should be able to increase hunting opportunities, but that was never their intent. Big mature bucks are awesome and an important part of management, but a division of wildlife should not revolve around providing exclusive hunting opportunities to the highest bidder.
We can find ways to improve the quality of the deer herd without turning it into a ridiculously expensive sport of bone and bloodshed. I'm not interested in any Don Peay minded organization.
Don Peay infiltrated the Utah DWR like no other. When SFW got the bid for the Utah Expo, my fears that a government wildlife department had been hijacked were confirmed. The UDWR overtly held the door open for SFW when it should have been shut. Sure this was discussed on the internet, but that doesn't make it false.
I personally heard Don describe SFW as "representing all sportsmen." I then watched SFW for years to see if they would ever push a policy decision that would enhance the general hunt. I eventually realized they do not represent me as a sportsman. Most hunters do not meet the SFW definition of a sportsman. Virtually every policy decision they pushed hurt general hunters and/or helped the big money, exclusive hunts. I'm not interested in habitat improvement that comes with the price of fewer hunting privileges. So many things they pushed for didn't help the herd.
They just diminished opportunities with no apparent payoff. Habitat improvement should be able to increase hunting opportunities, but that was never their intent. Big mature bucks are awesome and an important part of management, but a division of wildlife should not revolve around providing exclusive hunting opportunities to the highest bidder.
We can find ways to improve the quality of the deer herd without turning it into a ridiculously expensive sport of bone and bloodshed. I'm not interested in any Don Peay minded organization.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"I don't have to personally know a person to disagree with their politics and their agenda."
I completely agree. However the other poster didn't just disagree with them. That was my point. Disagree all you want with who you want. Start running people's names into the mud that you don't even know then I start taking issue.
I completely agree. However the other poster didn't just disagree with them. That was my point. Disagree all you want with who you want. Start running people's names into the mud that you don't even know then I start taking issue.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
Ummm.
Don Peay is an OG.
He's not just a name donated.
Chaffetz. If you hunt, fish, or look at publuc land, you know what this guy is about.
Jim Shockey. IS A GUIDE/OUTFITTER. Doesn't mean hes a bad guy personally, but don't get twisted.
This is a list of folks for whom connections and money dictate their "hunting"
Short of maybe Shockey, if you dropped any of them off without a guide and 4star lodge, would they make it a week?
Hint. When you see Don Peay associated, YOURE GETTING SCREWED.
And ya Tri I have talked to him, and Ya Tri I know him. He's no mystery.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Don Peay is an OG.
He's not just a name donated.
Chaffetz. If you hunt, fish, or look at publuc land, you know what this guy is about.
Jim Shockey. IS A GUIDE/OUTFITTER. Doesn't mean hes a bad guy personally, but don't get twisted.
This is a list of folks for whom connections and money dictate their "hunting"
Short of maybe Shockey, if you dropped any of them off without a guide and 4star lodge, would they make it a week?
Hint. When you see Don Peay associated, YOURE GETTING SCREWED.
And ya Tri I have talked to him, and Ya Tri I know him. He's no mystery.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>"I don't have to personally know
>a person to disagree with
>their politics and their agenda."
>
>
>
>I completely agree. However the
>other poster didn't just disagree
>with them. That was
>my point. Disagree all
>you want with who you
>want. Start running people's
>names into the mud that
>you don't even know then
>I start taking issue.
Who's name got run through the mud?
Now you're just lying, boy.
>a person to disagree with
>their politics and their agenda."
>
>
>
>I completely agree. However the
>other poster didn't just disagree
>with them. That was
>my point. Disagree all
>you want with who you
>want. Start running people's
>names into the mud that
>you don't even know then
>I start taking issue.
Who's name got run through the mud?
Now you're just lying, boy.
greysriver
Active Member
- Messages
- 296
wow. I don't post on here much but this one got me.
I have known some of these folks for years. In fact one of them was my neighbor for a while and yes he has money, but he is the kind of guy that went to the local sports organization and would tell the director that every kid in the town that wants to play a sport that cannot afford it to sign them up and send him the bill. This is the same guy that has helped more handicap kids kill turkeys and big game than anyone else I know.
So if you feel so dirty then please post up a personal experience that makes you feel that way besides jealousy and playing off someone else's comments.
Some really really good folks on this board!
I have known some of these folks for years. In fact one of them was my neighbor for a while and yes he has money, but he is the kind of guy that went to the local sports organization and would tell the director that every kid in the town that wants to play a sport that cannot afford it to sign them up and send him the bill. This is the same guy that has helped more handicap kids kill turkeys and big game than anyone else I know.
So if you feel so dirty then please post up a personal experience that makes you feel that way besides jealousy and playing off someone else's comments.
Some really really good folks on this board!
>wow. I don't post on here
>much but this one got
>me.
>
>I have known some of these
>folks for years. In fact
>one of them was my
>neighbor for a while and
>yes he has money, but
>he is the kind of
>guy that went to the
>local sports organization and would
>tell the director that every
>kid in the town that
>wants to play a sport
>that cannot afford it to
>sign them up and send
>him the bill. This is
>the same guy that has
>helped more handicap kids kill
>turkeys and big game than
>anyone else I know.
>So if you feel so dirty
>then please post up a
>personal experience that makes you
>feel that way besides jealousy
>and playing off someone else's
>comments.
>
>Some really really good folks on
>this board!
>
>
Ask your friends why they want to associate themselves with people who want to privatize wildlife and public lands.
>much but this one got
>me.
>
>I have known some of these
>folks for years. In fact
>one of them was my
>neighbor for a while and
>yes he has money, but
>he is the kind of
>guy that went to the
>local sports organization and would
>tell the director that every
>kid in the town that
>wants to play a sport
>that cannot afford it to
>sign them up and send
>him the bill. This is
>the same guy that has
>helped more handicap kids kill
>turkeys and big game than
>anyone else I know.
>So if you feel so dirty
>then please post up a
>personal experience that makes you
>feel that way besides jealousy
>and playing off someone else's
>comments.
>
>Some really really good folks on
>this board!
>
>
Ask your friends why they want to associate themselves with people who want to privatize wildlife and public lands.
greysriver
Active Member
- Messages
- 296
so to my point you don't know any of them correct? you have no bad experiences with them,or good experiences either? you just don't like them?
>so to my point you don't
>know any of them correct?
> you have no bad
>experiences with them,or good experiences
>either? you just don't
>like them?
Wrong wrong and wrong.
I live in Utah. Don Peay went to the capital to publicly support Utah legislators to change Utah?s trespassing law regarding rivers and streams. Now Utah residents are locked out of 1000s of miles of rivers and streams. When Jason Chaffetz was a congressmen from Utah he introduced HB 622, that bill would have allowed the feds to sell off 3.3 million acres of public land in the west. I can go on and on about these 2 aholes screwing hunters and fishermen over. Do some research. You live in Wyoming? Maybe Wyoming residents wouldn't mind giving hunter nation around 500 of Wyoming?s most sought after big game tags to fund hunter nation. That's what happened in Utah thanks to don Peay. I bet you don't like Nancy Palosi either. You have no personal experience with her god or bad right? You just don't like her.
>know any of them correct?
> you have no bad
>experiences with them,or good experiences
>either? you just don't
>like them?
Wrong wrong and wrong.
I live in Utah. Don Peay went to the capital to publicly support Utah legislators to change Utah?s trespassing law regarding rivers and streams. Now Utah residents are locked out of 1000s of miles of rivers and streams. When Jason Chaffetz was a congressmen from Utah he introduced HB 622, that bill would have allowed the feds to sell off 3.3 million acres of public land in the west. I can go on and on about these 2 aholes screwing hunters and fishermen over. Do some research. You live in Wyoming? Maybe Wyoming residents wouldn't mind giving hunter nation around 500 of Wyoming?s most sought after big game tags to fund hunter nation. That's what happened in Utah thanks to don Peay. I bet you don't like Nancy Palosi either. You have no personal experience with her god or bad right? You just don't like her.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,723
It all getting clear now. I understand why Tri is so defensive of HunterNation. I just saw a clip of Hunternation interviewing Wade Lemon Who happens to be Tri's make believe best friend. I really need a shower now.
BLooDTRaCKeR
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
Yep, let's all keep whining and crying about where hunting is going because of a few rich clowns......and just keep watching it happen.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
Hint: Never feel the need to explain yourself to a "rolling slaughterhouse on wheels" from Texas.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
HuntingTexas
Member
- Messages
- 27
>It all getting clear now. I
>understand why Tri is so
>defensive of HunterNation. I
>just saw a clip of
>Hunternation interviewing Wade Lemon Who
>happens to be Tri's make
>believe best friend. I really
>need a shower now.
wlh has pull in your state
until youve hunted with him you just dont know
one call--- thats all--- it took
>understand why Tri is so
>defensive of HunterNation. I
>just saw a clip of
>Hunternation interviewing Wade Lemon Who
>happens to be Tri's make
>believe best friend. I really
>need a shower now.
wlh has pull in your state
until youve hunted with him you just dont know
one call--- thats all--- it took
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-19 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]Hunter Nation is an organization that I do support. HN and Biggame Forever are on the front lines of the current wolf war. Like Don Peay or not, he did get prop 5 passed in Utah back in '98. Had he not done that, Utah would not be running hounds or trapping on public land today. Peay also was the one that convinced Harry Reid and John Tester into voting against their own party to delist wolves. This organization is for Uniting all hunters and protecting our rights in a more political fight.
Trump Jr. is a sportsmen that is standing up for what he believes in and fighting for hunting. Not sure why any hunter would bash a fellow sportsmen for trying to preserve our way of life? Can you think of any other son of a sitting US president that has been more involved with protecting hunting than Don Jr?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to support Hunter Nation, but I would advise you to look into them before publicly bashing them just because you don't like one of the many sportsmen that are involved with the organization.
My personal experience with HN was great when I asked them for help with an HSUS attack against lion & bobcat hunting with hounds.
Trump Jr. is a sportsmen that is standing up for what he believes in and fighting for hunting. Not sure why any hunter would bash a fellow sportsmen for trying to preserve our way of life? Can you think of any other son of a sitting US president that has been more involved with protecting hunting than Don Jr?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to support Hunter Nation, but I would advise you to look into them before publicly bashing them just because you don't like one of the many sportsmen that are involved with the organization.
My personal experience with HN was great when I asked them for help with an HSUS attack against lion & bobcat hunting with hounds.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-19 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]>HN and
>Biggame Forever are on the
>front lines of the current
>wolf war.
>Peay also was the one
>that convinced Harry Reid and
>John Tester into voting against
>their own party to delist
>wolves.
Here is but an excerpt from NRA & SCI regarding BGF & SFW regarding the wolf fight...
"Congressional offices and members of the media should exercise caution in accepting as fact, or repeating, any claims made by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever or any person claiming to represent them. Due to the blatant misrepresentation contained in the press release circulated by these two groups, any claims they make in the future should be thoroughly investigated and independently confirmed."
Here's more info from back then... https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=17620&forum=DCForumID5&archive=yes
BGF was also found to be commingling state funds and failing to file required reports by the Utah Auditor General...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw31qyXR9sW0d2SmSE9N84LS
Read my signature below... they have actively pursued the privatization of Wildlife in North America!
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>Biggame Forever are on the
>front lines of the current
>wolf war.
>Peay also was the one
>that convinced Harry Reid and
>John Tester into voting against
>their own party to delist
>wolves.
Here is but an excerpt from NRA & SCI regarding BGF & SFW regarding the wolf fight...
"Congressional offices and members of the media should exercise caution in accepting as fact, or repeating, any claims made by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever or any person claiming to represent them. Due to the blatant misrepresentation contained in the press release circulated by these two groups, any claims they make in the future should be thoroughly investigated and independently confirmed."
Here's more info from back then... https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=17620&forum=DCForumID5&archive=yes
BGF was also found to be commingling state funds and failing to file required reports by the Utah Auditor General...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw31qyXR9sW0d2SmSE9N84LS
Read my signature below... they have actively pursued the privatization of Wildlife in North America!
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,390
Every single one of these people are about money and power, period.
Do you think you'll ever run into Don Peay, hunting on a general season unit like Beaver or Wasatch West?
These people aren't looking out for us little guys, they just want our money to fund the big guys.
Do you think you'll ever run into Don Peay, hunting on a general season unit like Beaver or Wasatch West?
These people aren't looking out for us little guys, they just want our money to fund the big guys.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
Whats a "little guy" and whats a "big guy"?
Have you ever thought of looking out for the deer first instead of fighting over who's big, who's little, and who is going to get a tag?
I think that's why a lot of people here are as upset as they are. They have spent a lifetime fighting like little people and forgetting what is more important.
Have you ever thought of looking out for the deer first instead of fighting over who's big, who's little, and who is going to get a tag?
I think that's why a lot of people here are as upset as they are. They have spent a lifetime fighting like little people and forgetting what is more important.
>Whats a "little guy" and whats
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
Hey boy, you didn't answer the question.
Who?s name got run through the mud?
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
Hey boy, you didn't answer the question.
Who?s name got run through the mud?
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
>Whats a "little guy" and whats
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
I agree. Which is exactly why dudes tuck tail and run when they see Don Peay.
Dude has spent his life enriching himself and his cronies, making sure they have THE BEST tags yearly. He's done so in the "name of helping deer" yet 30 years after he "saved the mule deer", we are at best where we were 30years ago.
Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND", WLH that was quoted calling all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
I agree. Which is exactly why dudes tuck tail and run when they see Don Peay.
Dude has spent his life enriching himself and his cronies, making sure they have THE BEST tags yearly. He's done so in the "name of helping deer" yet 30 years after he "saved the mule deer", we are at best where we were 30years ago.
Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND", WLH that was quoted calling all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"I agree. Which is exactly why dudes tuck tail and run when they see Don Peay."
Keep running then. If you had anything more than your own self serving interests yall would stand.
"Dude has spent his life enriching himself and his cronies, making sure they have THE BEST tags yearly."
Awesome. Sounds like a pretty good deal. What's the problem. I like making money and hunting good areas. Am I a bad person because of it?
" He's done so in the "name of helping deer" yet 30 years after he "saved the mule deer", we are at best where we were 30years ago."
SO you are admitting it hasn't gotten worse? Sounds like you are admitting he saved the mule deer. What have you done to save them?
"Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND", WLH that was quoted calling all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS."
What is the purpose of posting those bent words? What did WLH have to do with this? You are just acting like a knucklehead now hoping you can throw something and make it stick.
Look at yall. All bent out of shape about people you don't know and making it personal because you don't agree with a couple of them. Yall are bigots.
Keep running then. If you had anything more than your own self serving interests yall would stand.
"Dude has spent his life enriching himself and his cronies, making sure they have THE BEST tags yearly."
Awesome. Sounds like a pretty good deal. What's the problem. I like making money and hunting good areas. Am I a bad person because of it?
" He's done so in the "name of helping deer" yet 30 years after he "saved the mule deer", we are at best where we were 30years ago."
SO you are admitting it hasn't gotten worse? Sounds like you are admitting he saved the mule deer. What have you done to save them?
"Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND", WLH that was quoted calling all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS."
What is the purpose of posting those bent words? What did WLH have to do with this? You are just acting like a knucklehead now hoping you can throw something and make it stick.
Look at yall. All bent out of shape about people you don't know and making it personal because you don't agree with a couple of them. Yall are bigots.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,390
>Whats a "little guy" and whats
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
Seriously Tri, are you asking ME what I do for mule deer?
What do YOU do??
>a "big guy"?
>
>
>Have you ever thought of looking
>out for the deer first
>instead of fighting over who's
>big, who's little, and who
>is going to get a
>tag?
>
>I think that's why a lot
>of people here are as
>upset as they are.
>They have spent a lifetime
>fighting like little people and
>forgetting what is more important.
>
Seriously Tri, are you asking ME what I do for mule deer?
What do YOU do??
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"Seriously Tri, are you asking ME what I do for mule deer?
What do YOU do??"
Actually that post was directed at Hossblur. I guess you didn't notice I was quoting Hossblur.
As for what I do? NEVER ENOUGH. But I donate to MDF, and HUNTER NATION. I collect CWD samples for my state. I help manage a large ranch for mule deer. I get involved with my state wildlife board.
Just as important is what I don't do. I don't sit and run down people and groups because they differ from me politically. I may tell you why I disagree with them. I may tell you what I would rather see done. But I don't tell people I need a shower just because I saw their picture on a web page.
What do YOU do??"
Actually that post was directed at Hossblur. I guess you didn't notice I was quoting Hossblur.
As for what I do? NEVER ENOUGH. But I donate to MDF, and HUNTER NATION. I collect CWD samples for my state. I help manage a large ranch for mule deer. I get involved with my state wildlife board.
Just as important is what I don't do. I don't sit and run down people and groups because they differ from me politically. I may tell you why I disagree with them. I may tell you what I would rather see done. But I don't tell people I need a shower just because I saw their picture on a web page.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,390
>"Seriously Tri, are you asking ME
>what I do for mule
>deer?
>
>What do YOU do??"
>
>
>Actually that post was directed at
>Hossblur. I guess you
>didn't notice I was quoting
>Hossblur.
>
>
>As for what I do?
>NEVER ENOUGH. But I
>donate to MDF, and HUNTER
>NATION. I collect CWD
>samples for my state.
>I help manage a large
>ranch for mule deer.
>I get involved with my
>state wildlife board.
>
>Just as important is what I
>don't do. I don't
>sit and run down people
>and groups because they differ
>from me politically. I
>may tell you why I
>disagree with them. I
>may tell you what I
>would rather see done.
>But I don't tell people
>I need a shower just
>because I saw their picture
>on a web page.
Fair enough...
I asked because my statement was included in your quote.
>what I do for mule
>deer?
>
>What do YOU do??"
>
>
>Actually that post was directed at
>Hossblur. I guess you
>didn't notice I was quoting
>Hossblur.
>
>
>As for what I do?
>NEVER ENOUGH. But I
>donate to MDF, and HUNTER
>NATION. I collect CWD
>samples for my state.
>I help manage a large
>ranch for mule deer.
>I get involved with my
>state wildlife board.
>
>Just as important is what I
>don't do. I don't
>sit and run down people
>and groups because they differ
>from me politically. I
>may tell you why I
>disagree with them. I
>may tell you what I
>would rather see done.
>But I don't tell people
>I need a shower just
>because I saw their picture
>on a web page.
Fair enough...
I asked because my statement was included in your quote.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
No problem Slam. I want people to understand all of these people are hunters. Whether yall believe it or not, in the grand scheme of things, they are on your side. You may disagree with a couple of them on their beliefs on how to make hunting better, but you should still treat them as your ally. At the same time look at the goals of the organization. Maybe you agree with those goals even though you disagreed with one of their members or representatives somewhere else at another time.
Then lets say you don't agree with the organization's goals. No problem. Don't send them your money. Maybe even send them a letter explaining why you don't support them and the better ideas you have. But don't get on the internet spreading hate about them. They are hunters on your side.
Then lets say you don't agree with the organization's goals. No problem. Don't send them your money. Maybe even send them a letter explaining why you don't support them and the better ideas you have. But don't get on the internet spreading hate about them. They are hunters on your side.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
>"I agree. Which is exactly why
>dudes tuck tail and run
>when they see Don Peay."
>
>
>
>Keep running then. If you
>had anything more than your
>own self serving interests yall
>would stand.
>
>"Dude has spent his life enriching
>himself and his cronies, making
>sure they have THE BEST
>tags yearly."
>
>Awesome. Sounds like a pretty
>good deal. What's the
>problem. I like making
>money and hunting good areas.
> Am I a bad
>person because of it?
>
>" He's done so in the
>"name of helping deer" yet
>30 years after he "saved
>the mule deer", we are
>at best where we were
>30years ago."
>
>SO you are admitting it hasn't
>gotten worse? Sounds like
>you are admitting he saved
>the mule deer. What
>have you done to save
>them?
>
>"Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND",
>WLH that was quoted calling
>all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS."
>
>
>
>What is the purpose of posting
>those bent words? What
>did WLH have to do
>with this? You are
>just acting like a knucklehead
>now hoping you can throw
>something and make it stick.
>
>
>Look at yall. All bent
>out of shape about people
>you don't know and making
>it personal because you don't
>agree with a couple of
>them. Yall are bigots.
>
You make a lot of money selling welfare?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>dudes tuck tail and run
>when they see Don Peay."
>
>
>
>Keep running then. If you
>had anything more than your
>own self serving interests yall
>would stand.
>
>"Dude has spent his life enriching
>himself and his cronies, making
>sure they have THE BEST
>tags yearly."
>
>Awesome. Sounds like a pretty
>good deal. What's the
>problem. I like making
>money and hunting good areas.
> Am I a bad
>person because of it?
>
>" He's done so in the
>"name of helping deer" yet
>30 years after he "saved
>the mule deer", we are
>at best where we were
>30years ago."
>
>SO you are admitting it hasn't
>gotten worse? Sounds like
>you are admitting he saved
>the mule deer. What
>have you done to save
>them?
>
>"Remember. It was YOUR "GOOD FRIEND",
>WLH that was quoted calling
>all us "little guys" KNUCKLEHEADS."
>
>
>
>What is the purpose of posting
>those bent words? What
>did WLH have to do
>with this? You are
>just acting like a knucklehead
>now hoping you can throw
>something and make it stick.
>
>
>Look at yall. All bent
>out of shape about people
>you don't know and making
>it personal because you don't
>agree with a couple of
>them. Yall are bigots.
>
You make a lot of money selling welfare?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
>No problem Slam. I want
>people to understand all of
>these people are hunters.
>Whether yall believe it or
>not, in the grand scheme
>of things, they are on
>your side. You may
>disagree with a couple of
>them on their beliefs on
>how to make hunting better,
>but you should still treat
>them as your ally.
>At the same time look
>at the goals of the
>organization. Maybe you agree
>with those goals even though
>you disagreed with one of
>their members or representatives somewhere
>else at another time.
>
>Then lets say you don't agree
>with the organization's goals.
>No problem. Don't send
>them your money. Maybe
>even send them a letter
>explaining why you don't support
>them and the better ideas
>you have. But don't
>get on the internet spreading
>hate about them. They
>are hunters on your side.
>
You know THE DON? I do.
You are going to have to decide if WLH is your "good friend" or someone you don't know. You flop back and forth.
I don't rip on "orgs" I specifically rip $fw. As a MDF supporter you should notice I don't hit them even when they are part of the states welfare auction.
I rip only one. And they deserve every ounce of it as long as they sell MY tags, to kill MY deer, and give me the finger when I dare ask what they did with the $millions I gave them.
Wait. I'll take that back. I rip BGF because they do the EXACT same, only instead of tags we hand them $350k yearly.
As usual I wonder how some dude from Texas is so concerned with Utah. And yeah, Hunter nation spawned out of Utah(Peay).
Or is Tri the Utah troll and your other personality Hunting Texas the national troll?
Hard to keep track, I'm surprised you can.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>people to understand all of
>these people are hunters.
>Whether yall believe it or
>not, in the grand scheme
>of things, they are on
>your side. You may
>disagree with a couple of
>them on their beliefs on
>how to make hunting better,
>but you should still treat
>them as your ally.
>At the same time look
>at the goals of the
>organization. Maybe you agree
>with those goals even though
>you disagreed with one of
>their members or representatives somewhere
>else at another time.
>
>Then lets say you don't agree
>with the organization's goals.
>No problem. Don't send
>them your money. Maybe
>even send them a letter
>explaining why you don't support
>them and the better ideas
>you have. But don't
>get on the internet spreading
>hate about them. They
>are hunters on your side.
>
You know THE DON? I do.
You are going to have to decide if WLH is your "good friend" or someone you don't know. You flop back and forth.
I don't rip on "orgs" I specifically rip $fw. As a MDF supporter you should notice I don't hit them even when they are part of the states welfare auction.
I rip only one. And they deserve every ounce of it as long as they sell MY tags, to kill MY deer, and give me the finger when I dare ask what they did with the $millions I gave them.
Wait. I'll take that back. I rip BGF because they do the EXACT same, only instead of tags we hand them $350k yearly.
As usual I wonder how some dude from Texas is so concerned with Utah. And yeah, Hunter nation spawned out of Utah(Peay).
Or is Tri the Utah troll and your other personality Hunting Texas the national troll?
Hard to keep track, I'm surprised you can.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
BeanMan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,903
Don Peay is not ?just another hunter? nor is he just a representative of this new group. He is a co-founder. His history in Utah and the west is very negative. This is just not innuendo or ?dragging his name though the mud?. If The Don wanted this group to prosper he would to remove all traces of his name from it.
If truth and honesty meant anything to you Tri, you would feel the same.
Hasbean
If truth and honesty meant anything to you Tri, you would feel the same.
Hasbean
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
I don't much like what "modern" hunting has become. It's all about inches and looking good in the woods.
I will have to say I have met Mike Waddell, and spent a few hours talking with his dad at a youth Navajo Res deer hunt.
Nice people and could easily spend days hunting with them.
I will have to say I have met Mike Waddell, and spent a few hours talking with his dad at a youth Navajo Res deer hunt.
Nice people and could easily spend days hunting with them.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
" His history in Utah and the west is very negative."
According to some. Others happen to like what he has and is doing.
" This is just not innuendo or ?dragging his name though the mud?."
Saying someone needs a shower after seeing his picture on a website is.
" If The Don wanted this group to prosper he would to remove all traces of his name from it."
I am pretty sure it is prospering with his name on it.
"If truth and honesty meant anything to you Tri, you would feel the same."
That's not how logic works.
Hossblur you started off okay in your posts and then you started on the chemicals again and quit making sense. Sober up and come post.
According to some. Others happen to like what he has and is doing.
" This is just not innuendo or ?dragging his name though the mud?."
Saying someone needs a shower after seeing his picture on a website is.
" If The Don wanted this group to prosper he would to remove all traces of his name from it."
I am pretty sure it is prospering with his name on it.
"If truth and honesty meant anything to you Tri, you would feel the same."
That's not how logic works.
Hossblur you started off okay in your posts and then you started on the chemicals again and quit making sense. Sober up and come post.
johnnyutah
Active Member
- Messages
- 125
A big guy is someone or an organization who can show up to a board meeting and has leverage to get their way.
SFW is a fantastic example of a big guy and are masters at getting their way. The have multiple representatives that are on the stage in the RAC. They have multiple representatives in the audience. The are so good at the game that they are able to take a public resource, le tags, keep the money from the proceeds, throw a few bones to conservation and "little guys" to shut everyone up and then put the clamps on the general hunt so they can be left to pursue trophy animals in peace - free of the pesky "little guys." THe are so good at the game that when they are outbid for the expo, the DWR extends the process so they can come across as more competitive.
A little guy is someone who has very little leverage and gets in the way of SFW trophy hunting pursuits.
Big guys are great until they manipulate the system to diminish everyone else and increase themselves.
Big SFW tells little guy that the problem with the herd is that little guy hunts. Little guy is confused as he doesn't see a problem. He goes out for a few days a year. Is overall satisfied with what he sees, and sees improvements over the past few years. No matter, hunting dates, boundaries, and tag numbers are decreased anyway.
Have you ever thought what would happen if SFW started taking away your hunts? What if they deemed a hunt you liked as crappy and took your privleges away. In the same breath they fight to increase trophy tags they can sell. What if they told you to take off for the overall good of the herd? Then they fight to get more tags for themselves. They target the deer with the best sheds and the best genetics and give the 2-point hunters a lecture on biology. We are all concerned about the herd in our own way and do what we can in our own way, but when a big guy eats your lunch, you don't sit back and focus on "the good they do." You address the problem.
It's simple psychology and shouldn't be so hard to understand. Nor should it be very hard to bridge. Grow the herd and gradually increase tags as it grows. This is good for everyone except those who want the entire place to themselves. SFW pretends like they are growing the herd, complains about how bad its getting, and then they kick everyone else out. At no point do they ever ask for a decrease of their expo tags or shorter dates on le hunts. In fact, they just pushed to increase the dates on the Paunsagaunt because its so hard there and people are leaving disappointed if the migration doesn't cooperate. SFW only grinds against general hunts. There is no way they'd ever push for longer general dates for a better success rate.
Increase the herd, free up some general tags and opportunities. This shouldn't be so hard.
SFW is a fantastic example of a big guy and are masters at getting their way. The have multiple representatives that are on the stage in the RAC. They have multiple representatives in the audience. The are so good at the game that they are able to take a public resource, le tags, keep the money from the proceeds, throw a few bones to conservation and "little guys" to shut everyone up and then put the clamps on the general hunt so they can be left to pursue trophy animals in peace - free of the pesky "little guys." THe are so good at the game that when they are outbid for the expo, the DWR extends the process so they can come across as more competitive.
A little guy is someone who has very little leverage and gets in the way of SFW trophy hunting pursuits.
Big guys are great until they manipulate the system to diminish everyone else and increase themselves.
Big SFW tells little guy that the problem with the herd is that little guy hunts. Little guy is confused as he doesn't see a problem. He goes out for a few days a year. Is overall satisfied with what he sees, and sees improvements over the past few years. No matter, hunting dates, boundaries, and tag numbers are decreased anyway.
Have you ever thought what would happen if SFW started taking away your hunts? What if they deemed a hunt you liked as crappy and took your privleges away. In the same breath they fight to increase trophy tags they can sell. What if they told you to take off for the overall good of the herd? Then they fight to get more tags for themselves. They target the deer with the best sheds and the best genetics and give the 2-point hunters a lecture on biology. We are all concerned about the herd in our own way and do what we can in our own way, but when a big guy eats your lunch, you don't sit back and focus on "the good they do." You address the problem.
It's simple psychology and shouldn't be so hard to understand. Nor should it be very hard to bridge. Grow the herd and gradually increase tags as it grows. This is good for everyone except those who want the entire place to themselves. SFW pretends like they are growing the herd, complains about how bad its getting, and then they kick everyone else out. At no point do they ever ask for a decrease of their expo tags or shorter dates on le hunts. In fact, they just pushed to increase the dates on the Paunsagaunt because its so hard there and people are leaving disappointed if the migration doesn't cooperate. SFW only grinds against general hunts. There is no way they'd ever push for longer general dates for a better success rate.
Increase the herd, free up some general tags and opportunities. This shouldn't be so hard.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
>" His history in Utah and
>the west is very negative."
>
>
>According to some. Others happen
>to like what he has
>and is doing.
>
>" This is just not innuendo
>or ?dragging his name though
>the mud?."
>
>Saying someone needs a shower after
>seeing his picture on a
>website is.
>
>" If The Don wanted this
>group to prosper he would
>to remove all traces of
>his name from it."
>
>I am pretty sure it is
>prospering with his name on
>it.
>
>"If truth and honesty meant anything
>to you Tri, you would
>feel the same."
>
>That's not how logic works.
>
>Hossblur you started off okay in
>your posts and then you
>started on the chemicals again
>and quit making sense.
>Sober up and come post.
>
So? No you don't know him.
Depends on the day whether your "good friends" with WLH, or if you have no idea.
And for now we are stuck with you 1st personality.
FYI
Paying an outfitter on a high fence hunt to hunt deer, ISNT the same as helping manage a ranch.
As always your awesome with the language manipulation
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>the west is very negative."
>
>
>According to some. Others happen
>to like what he has
>and is doing.
>
>" This is just not innuendo
>or ?dragging his name though
>the mud?."
>
>Saying someone needs a shower after
>seeing his picture on a
>website is.
>
>" If The Don wanted this
>group to prosper he would
>to remove all traces of
>his name from it."
>
>I am pretty sure it is
>prospering with his name on
>it.
>
>"If truth and honesty meant anything
>to you Tri, you would
>feel the same."
>
>That's not how logic works.
>
>Hossblur you started off okay in
>your posts and then you
>started on the chemicals again
>and quit making sense.
>Sober up and come post.
>
So? No you don't know him.
Depends on the day whether your "good friends" with WLH, or if you have no idea.
And for now we are stuck with you 1st personality.
FYI
Paying an outfitter on a high fence hunt to hunt deer, ISNT the same as helping manage a ranch.
As always your awesome with the language manipulation
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Hossblur. As best I can tell you have turned all your attention on me because you aren't capable of arguing for or against anything in the OP. But what exactly you are saying I don't know. You keep inserting WLH into these conversations too but you aren't talking about their relationship to HN. Instead you keep analyzing their relationship with me. Doesn't make much sense but you may be off the res again.
Slow down. Lay off the sauce and type one clear thought or question at a time. Maybe we will get somewhere.
Slow down. Lay off the sauce and type one clear thought or question at a time. Maybe we will get somewhere.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
JohnyUtah, thanks for the post. It was coherent and well thought out. Unlike most of the posts on this thread. No matter how well you communicated your ideas though you still have some things to learn.
I'll hit just a few high points.
First you say this.
"Big SFW tells little guy that the problem with the herd is that little guy hunts."
No they don't. They don't say that at all. They haven't said anything like that.
"Little guy is confused as he doesn't see a problem. He goes out for a few days a year. Is overall satisfied with what he sees, and sees improvements over the past few years. No matter, hunting dates, boundaries, and tag numbers are decreased anyway."
That's not science. Management needs to be based on science. Not just based on the observation of guys that go out for "a few days a year".
"What if they deemed a hunt you liked as crappy and took your privleges away."
Again, SFW doesn't do that now so why do I need to imagine it. Sounds like you are imagining a lot.
"It's simple psychology and shouldn't be so hard to understand. Nor should it be very hard to bridge. Grow the herd and gradually increase tags as it grows. "
Actually that's not psychology at all. Second that isn't how herd management works. in reality Its way more complicated than that.
"Increase the herd, free up some general tags and opportunities. This shouldn't be so hard."
Get after it. Go on get busy. If what you are saying is true then SFW doesn't care about the general tags so start your own org and start influencing your state on how to manage the general herds. Get after it. Don't come back with some excuse for why SFW won't let you either.
I'll hit just a few high points.
First you say this.
"Big SFW tells little guy that the problem with the herd is that little guy hunts."
No they don't. They don't say that at all. They haven't said anything like that.
"Little guy is confused as he doesn't see a problem. He goes out for a few days a year. Is overall satisfied with what he sees, and sees improvements over the past few years. No matter, hunting dates, boundaries, and tag numbers are decreased anyway."
That's not science. Management needs to be based on science. Not just based on the observation of guys that go out for "a few days a year".
"What if they deemed a hunt you liked as crappy and took your privleges away."
Again, SFW doesn't do that now so why do I need to imagine it. Sounds like you are imagining a lot.
"It's simple psychology and shouldn't be so hard to understand. Nor should it be very hard to bridge. Grow the herd and gradually increase tags as it grows. "
Actually that's not psychology at all. Second that isn't how herd management works. in reality Its way more complicated than that.
"Increase the herd, free up some general tags and opportunities. This shouldn't be so hard."
Get after it. Go on get busy. If what you are saying is true then SFW doesn't care about the general tags so start your own org and start influencing your state on how to manage the general herds. Get after it. Don't come back with some excuse for why SFW won't let you either.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,723
Hey Tri, Peayday is a bad news pure and simple. He has taken more from wildlife and the people of Utah than he has ever given. Same for your BFF Wade.
I need another shower.
I need another shower.
johnnyutah
Active Member
- Messages
- 125
With all due respect, you also have some things to learn.
In 2011 SFW / Don Peay were pushing really hard to split Utah into more units. The year before, the state sent out a survey asking if hunters prefer to have a marginal hunt every year or a trophy hunt every 5. In one of the meetings I personally heard Don bag on those who voted contrary to what he wanted. I've watched SFW push for smaller units, shorter dates, and fewer tags on general units. I've never seen them push for anything else, even when numbers justify it. If this isn't taking privleges away, what is?
In regards to science, they got their way with Option 2. They sold it under the premise that when a unit is doing well, increase tags. When it is doing poorly, decrease tags. That's reasonable and scientific enough. The Southern Units were over objective on both population and buck to doe ratios for 4+ years. I showed up to the SFW stacked RAC meeting and watched them scratch and clamor for reasons not to increase tags - (safety, seeing more hunters than usual, and we need a few more years to be sure the numbers are increasing were as good as they could come up with). They fight tooth and nail not to increase general tags even when "science" and cold hard numbers indicate increases are warranted.
Sorry, but I don't see the "science" behind a wildlife model that is hyper focused on buck management at the exclusion of so many other factors. Big mature bucks are an important part of herd health and we could make an argument that we should leave every deer over 180 alone. That doesn't bode well with guides and expo tags though.
That same meeting I went to came after a hard winter. All of the Don Peay / SFW discussion had to do with managing the buck hunt. All the ideas were about restricting hunting. I finally had to publicly ask a biologist after his presentation on population if the population would be able to grow with current fawn recruitment. It wasn't even on anyone else's radar. It seemed like cold water was thrown in the face of the meeting. They had their hunter management bullet points and fawn recruitment just didn't make the list. The closest thought they get to fawn recruitment is don't allow any anterless hunt - not even in ag areas - ever. I could pick that one apart too, but I've got to wrap it up.
My observation about SFW is they will always fight a general tag increase - even if a unit is above objective. They actively seek out ways to restrict general hunting. They will support anything that will further the cause of high fee hunting. Longer hunt dates on the Paunsagaunt - you got it, no problem!!! More general hunting days? No way. Bad science that will destroy the herd. I could go on but I'll let you do your own tests. Contrast how they treat general hunts and hunters with exclusive hunts.
I'm not starting an organization, but I do have time to show up to an occasional RAC and tell them there is one hunter that is okay with tag increases when the numbers justify it. I've got enough fight to bag on SFW once in a while. If I really wanted to get effective/nasty I'd work with non hunting groups and go after state trophy hunting programs. We could pursue all kinds of "science" such as how deer are smaller now because of the systematic gene corruption by trophy hunting. Donations would pour in. I'm a hunter at heart though, and this would do more damage than good. Enviros are a bigger devil than Don. I'll let it be for now. My energies would best be spent pursuing habitat improvement on private properties I have access to. That's what I'll be doing in 2020. Follow up with me next year.
Time to put this down & reflect on family. life, and celebration.
Happy New Year Tri!!!
In 2011 SFW / Don Peay were pushing really hard to split Utah into more units. The year before, the state sent out a survey asking if hunters prefer to have a marginal hunt every year or a trophy hunt every 5. In one of the meetings I personally heard Don bag on those who voted contrary to what he wanted. I've watched SFW push for smaller units, shorter dates, and fewer tags on general units. I've never seen them push for anything else, even when numbers justify it. If this isn't taking privleges away, what is?
In regards to science, they got their way with Option 2. They sold it under the premise that when a unit is doing well, increase tags. When it is doing poorly, decrease tags. That's reasonable and scientific enough. The Southern Units were over objective on both population and buck to doe ratios for 4+ years. I showed up to the SFW stacked RAC meeting and watched them scratch and clamor for reasons not to increase tags - (safety, seeing more hunters than usual, and we need a few more years to be sure the numbers are increasing were as good as they could come up with). They fight tooth and nail not to increase general tags even when "science" and cold hard numbers indicate increases are warranted.
Sorry, but I don't see the "science" behind a wildlife model that is hyper focused on buck management at the exclusion of so many other factors. Big mature bucks are an important part of herd health and we could make an argument that we should leave every deer over 180 alone. That doesn't bode well with guides and expo tags though.
That same meeting I went to came after a hard winter. All of the Don Peay / SFW discussion had to do with managing the buck hunt. All the ideas were about restricting hunting. I finally had to publicly ask a biologist after his presentation on population if the population would be able to grow with current fawn recruitment. It wasn't even on anyone else's radar. It seemed like cold water was thrown in the face of the meeting. They had their hunter management bullet points and fawn recruitment just didn't make the list. The closest thought they get to fawn recruitment is don't allow any anterless hunt - not even in ag areas - ever. I could pick that one apart too, but I've got to wrap it up.
My observation about SFW is they will always fight a general tag increase - even if a unit is above objective. They actively seek out ways to restrict general hunting. They will support anything that will further the cause of high fee hunting. Longer hunt dates on the Paunsagaunt - you got it, no problem!!! More general hunting days? No way. Bad science that will destroy the herd. I could go on but I'll let you do your own tests. Contrast how they treat general hunts and hunters with exclusive hunts.
I'm not starting an organization, but I do have time to show up to an occasional RAC and tell them there is one hunter that is okay with tag increases when the numbers justify it. I've got enough fight to bag on SFW once in a while. If I really wanted to get effective/nasty I'd work with non hunting groups and go after state trophy hunting programs. We could pursue all kinds of "science" such as how deer are smaller now because of the systematic gene corruption by trophy hunting. Donations would pour in. I'm a hunter at heart though, and this would do more damage than good. Enviros are a bigger devil than Don. I'll let it be for now. My energies would best be spent pursuing habitat improvement on private properties I have access to. That's what I'll be doing in 2020. Follow up with me next year.
Time to put this down & reflect on family. life, and celebration.
Happy New Year Tri!!!
