Hunting Seasons For Reasons

[slamdunk]

Just a thought here-

WHAT IF-

The archery season was put into place simply to provide opportunity to those who enjoy this style of hunting?

Same as above with muzzleloader hunts☝

The rifle season is used as the most effective tool to "manage" game numbers.

Let's realize that the DWR is a resource and a business that needs managed as both.
They have numbers that need to be met in order to appease the resource and the privileged public hunters who utilize it as sport, tradition and yes, we are tools used for the balancing act.

The lowest success rates of the three is archery first, second is muzzleloader followed by the higher success rifle hunts coming last to finish the work of "management" of the total numbers of all big game.

Then why limit technology you ask?

Because {we} have gotten too efficient at killing our renewable resources and need to slow it down so we as sportsman and as "tools" can continue to enjoy what we do for generations to come.

Outfitters have taken it too far IMO, and not for the sake of "management" but for the sake of business and with utilizing various high tech tools of the trade in order to "kill for profit".

Who remembers when archery and muzzleloader seasons were called "primitive weapon hunts"?
They don't call them that anymore because we have strayed far from "primitive".
We've done that to ourselves because we didn't draw a line in the sand when we should have.

Now we have "sliders" (whatever those are?‍) and 500+ yard muzzleloaders.
Nothing "primitive" whatsoever.

Rifles were never intended to be limited, hence hundreds of various calibers to reach further and hit harder.

FYI- No I'm not solely defending rifles.
I love muzzleloader hunting because it gives me the best of both worlds.
A good "in between" archery and rifle hunting and i would definitely support going backwards to limit it's capabilities, and my own.

Just thinking while having my coffee this morning ?

 

[SS!]

All I want to know is what are you putting in your coffee…

 

[elkassassin]

If One Weapon Gets Restrictions!

All Weapons Get Em As Well!

They've ALL Advanced With Technology & GADGETRY!

 

[elkassassin]

Several LE BUCK & BULL Units in the Last Several Years Have Had The TOP END/CREAM OF THE CROP Knocked completely Off By All 3 Weapons year to year!

It's Not JUST The SmokePoles Putting The SMACKDOWN On The Game Herd!

It's Not JUST The StickFlippers Putting The SMACKDOWN On The Game Herd!

It's Not JUST The Long Range Rifles Putting The SMACKDOWN On The Game Herd!

It's a Combination of ALL Weaponry & GADGETRY!

Go Ahead & Take!

But Take on a Fair Basis & Take From All if You're Gonna Take!

 

[Tristate]

It doesn't matter what is fair. It doesn't matter what demographic kills deer what way. Quit pointing fingers at hunters or killers or technology AND QUIT THINKING YOU WILL FIX A BROKEN SYSTEM BY MAKING ENDLESS RESTRICTIONS THAT NEVER ADDRESS WHAT BROKE THE SYSTEM.


Start answering the question "WHAT IS THE PROBLEM". You are about out of time to actually turn this wreck around.

 

[slamdunk]

It doesn't matter what is fair. It doesn't matter what demographic kills deer what way. Quit pointing fingers at hunters or killers or technology AND QUIT THINKING YOU WILL FIX A BROKEN SYSTEM BY MAKING ENDLESS RESTRICTIONS THAT NEVER ADDRESS WHAT BROKE THE SYSTEM.


Start answering the question "WHAT IS THE PROBLEM". You are about out of time to actually turn this wreck around.

Two completely separate issues.....I thought we had already agreed on this ?‍

 

[Tristate]

Not completely separate issues. You can not manage wildlife successfully when your harvest strategy is based on hunter failure and opportunity. It doesn't work. It hasn't ever worked and it will never work. Quit trying to tweak a bad idea into working. It is a horrible failure. Time to start over with a completely different plan.

 

[slamdunk]

Not completely separate issues. You can not manage wildlife successfully when your harvest strategy is based on hunter failure and opportunity. It doesn't work. It hasn't ever worked and it will never work. Quit trying to tweak a bad idea into working. It is a horrible failure. Time to start over with a completely different plan.

So throw out a mock plan based off your ideas ?

 

[Tristate]

So throw out a mock plan based off your ideas ?

From here on out every tag is considered a dead deer.

 

[slamdunk]

From here on out every tag is considered a dead deer.

So you just completely dismantled and destroyed the entire DWR by selling just enough tags to meet objectives based off a ludicrous 100% success rate.......

 

[Tristate]

So you just completely dismantled and destroyed the entire DWR by selling just enough tags to meet objectives based off a ludicrous 100% success rate.......

Yep

 

[Tristate]

Look, the DWR is a complete flop now. If they weren't there would be damn near no reason for all of these organizations like MDF.

I wasn't lying when I told you the entire system was broken.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Just a thought here-

WHAT IF-

The archery season was put into place simply to provide opportunity to those who enjoy this style of hunting?

Same as above with muzzleloader hunts☝

The rifle season is used as the most effective tool to "manage" game numbers.

Let's realize that the DWR is a resource and a business that needs managed as both.
They have numbers that need to be met in order to appease the resource and the privileged public hunters who utilize it as sport, tradition and yes, we are tools used for the balancing act.

The lowest success rates of the three is archery first, second is muzzleloader followed by the higher success rifle hunts coming last to finish the work of "management" of the total numbers of all big game.

Then why limit technology you ask?

Because {we} have gotten too efficient at killing our renewable resources and need to slow it down so we as sportsman and as "tools" can continue to enjoy what we do for generations to come.

Outfitters have taken it too far IMO, and not for the sake of "management" but for the sake of business and with utilizing various high tech tools of the trade in order to "kill for profit".

Who remembers when archery and muzzleloader seasons were called "primitive weapon hunts"?
They don't call them that anymore because we have strayed far from "primitive".
We've done that to ourselves because we didn't draw a line in the sand when we should have.

Now we have "sliders" (whatever those are?‍) and 500+ yard muzzleloaders.
Nothing "primitive" whatsoever.

Rifles were never intended to be limited, hence hundreds of various calibers to reach further and hit harder.

FYI- No I'm not solely defending rifles.
I love muzzleloader hunting because it gives me the best of both worlds.
A good "in between" archery and rifle hunting and i would definitely support going backwards to limit it's capabilities, and my own.

Just thinking while having my coffee this morning ?

Hahaha Slam you are cut from a selfish cloth. Limit and restrict everyone but you is your plan niiiiice!

 

[slamdunk]

Hahaha Slam you are cut from a selfish cloth. Limit and restrict everyone but you is your plan niiiiice!

Where did I not limit myself?
I am a muzzleloader hunter.....?

Not to mention you are the one in favor of baiting and cameras for archery hunting because "it's not as easy as it looks"

 

[slamdunk]

Look, the DWR is a complete flop now. If they weren't there would be damn near no reason for all of these organizations like MDF.

I wasn't lying when I told you the entire system was broken.

I see your point, it is very valid and I agree

 

[Bigwiffy]

Where did I not limit myself?
I am a muzzleloader hunter.....?

How about we put the archery elk hunt through the whole month of September like all the other states. Bring back statewide archery deer, bring back AR301. Change the LE late muzzy hunts to archery hunts. Cutout all special interest groups that operate in the name of conservation, put all those auction tags back in the public draw, let our biologists manage the herds, get rid of the wildlife board, get rid of the dedicated hunter program, pick a weapon and go hunt. Why do no other states operate, or put up with the BS we do in Utah? Oh and can somebody please explain what money SFW used to purchase Arctic Red Outfitters?

 

[Tristate]

How about we put the archery elk hunt through the whole month of September like all the other states. Bring back statewide archery deer, bring back AR301. Change the LE late muzzy hunts to archery hunts. Cutout all special interest groups that operate in the name of conservation, put all those auction tags back in the public draw, let our biologists manage the herds, get rid of the wildlife board, get rid of the dedicated hunter program, pick a weapon and go hunt. Why do no other states operate, or put up with the BS we do in Utah? Oh and can somebody please explain what money SFW used to purchase Arctic Red Outfitters?

Or we just decide you purchase a tag and you have from September 1st to October 31st to fill it any which way you want to.

 

[hossblur]

Or we just decide you purchase a tag and you have from September 1st to October 31st to fill it any which way you want to.

So 27,000 dudes get a tag. That's 100%

But if we are going to get any fawns, we can't kill them all, so realistically it's less than 15,000.

That's why Tri management is a joke

 

[hossblur]

Those of us old enough to remember. We did hunt deer, with muzzleloaders, in November.

Muzzleloader hunters had that taken. Now I guess we should have squealed, got 7 meetings and cried all over the internet that we gave something up, but, we just hunted in Sept. Do it's not like we can't radically change something to try to help out.

I do think the state is onto something with combining deer tags.

It would end all the "opportunist" crap. But would also greatly decrease point creep, because it's one thing to say "I'm fine not hunting deer if I can hunt quality", it's another to get your wish.

 

[hossblur]

How about we put the archery elk hunt through the whole month of September like all the other states. Bring back statewide archery deer, bring back AR301. Change the LE late muzzy hunts to archery hunts. Cutout all special interest groups that operate in the name of conservation, put all those auction tags back in the public draw, let our biologists manage the herds, get rid of the wildlife board, get rid of the dedicated hunter program, pick a weapon and go hunt. Why do no other states operate, or put up with the BS we do in Utah? Oh and can somebody please explain what money SFW used to purchase Arctic Red Outfitters?

The Don has a couple friends worth billions who have a private jet. Did you miss the cam meeting?

But yeah. The future is going to have to be VERY archery dominated. Very rifle limited

 

[Beendare]

All I know…is hunters aren’t the enemy.

We are getting hammered from the PETA and HSUS types.They are organized and well funded.

I know hunters that don’t vote or lift a finger. My bro in law is one. He hates anything politic and checks out. The problem is EVERYTHING is political ( unfortunately!) including hunting.


If we voted as a cohesive group and all spent a tiny portion of our hunting budget on hunter support groups like SCI, NRA, RMEF, etc - we would literally blow the antis out of the water.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

All I know…is hunters aren’t the enemy.

We are getting hammered from the PETA and HSUS types.They are organized and well funded.

I know hunters that don’t vote or lift a finger. My bro in law is one. He hates anything politic and checks out. The problem is EVERYTHING is political ( unfortunately!) including hunting.


If we voted as a cohesive group and all spent a tiny portion of our hunting budget on hunter support groups like SCI, NRA, RMEF, etc - we would literally blow the antis out of the water.

Good post, I agree but just look at the dissension we (hunters) have on this forum. I believe the only thing we all can agree on is we all want to hunt.

 

[hossblur]

All I know…is hunters aren’t the enemy.

We are getting hammered from the PETA and HSUS types.They are organized and well funded.

I know hunters that don’t vote or lift a finger. My bro in law is one. He hates anything politic and checks out. The problem is EVERYTHING is political ( unfortunately!) including hunting.


If we voted as a cohesive group and all spent a tiny portion of our hunting budget on hunter support groups like SCI, NRA, RMEF, etc - we would literally blow the antis out of the water.

Some hunters very well are.

That dentist that shot "Cecil" the lion. Supposedly he is a hunter. And his dumbass got import bans as a result.

Mitt Romney "hunts". Enough said

That fabulous "hunter" Dick Cheney shot his friend.

The internet is loaded with "hunters" who daily post things HSUS and PETA couldn't invent.

The NRA isolated D that do hunt, to support R that don't.

Those R then support divesting all public land.

BHA, who hunt, fight like hell over development of public land, unless it's solar farm development, then it's just peachy.

And you might want to look around. We are 5% of the population. Not exactly going to blow anyone away.

We have a corporate hunting industry that looks to us, as competition, not partners.

Sorry man.

I backed a group who was formed to give voice to the little guy. Helped pass prop 5, then sold us all out, for some coin.

Pretty hard to do the "we are all on the same boat"

 

[Tristate]

"Some hunters very well are.

That dentist that shot "Cecil" the lion. Supposedly he is a hunter. And his dumbass got import bans as a result."

Why is he a dumbass? How did he get you import bans?


"Mitt Romney "hunts". Enough said"

Apparently not because I can't figure out what the hell you are talking about.

"That fabulous "hunter" Dick Cheney shot his friend."

Two old men have a hunting accident and you use them as food for whatever anti-hunting agenda you are pushing now. At least they are actually hunters unlike you.

 

[MulePacker]

Change the season hunt males in April/May.
Mull on that for a while.

 

[Silentstalker]

Slam,

My response to your thoughts are this:

1- What is your intended goal?
Is it to limit or reduce harvest ?

If it is? Why on earth would you further restrict the two least successful weapons and not put the smack down on the weapon type that kills literally thousands more deer and elk?

This phantom group of people killing deer at 100+ yards with a bow and 500+ with a muzzy are not very many. Most guys and gals can’t effectively dhoot beyond 40 yards with a bow and about 150 yards with a muzzy.

I agree there are those that CAN and DO.

Please help me understand the intended effect this outrageous push is to limit the least successful weapons.

 

[roadrunner]

Just a thought here-

WHAT IF-

The archery season was put into place simply to provide opportunity to those who enjoy this style of hunting?

Same as above with muzzleloader hunts☝

The rifle season is used as the most effective tool to "manage" game numbers.

Let's realize that the DWR is a resource and a business that needs managed as both.
They have numbers that need to be met in order to appease the resource and the privileged public hunters who utilize it as sport, tradition and yes, we are tools used for the balancing act.

The lowest success rates of the three is archery first, second is muzzleloader followed by the higher success rifle hunts coming last to finish the work of "management" of the total numbers of all big game.

Then why limit technology you ask?

Because {we} have gotten too efficient at killing our renewable resources and need to slow it down so we as sportsman and as "tools" can continue to enjoy what we do for generations to come.

Outfitters have taken it too far IMO, and not for the sake of "management" but for the sake of business and with utilizing various high tech tools of the trade in order to "kill for profit".

Who remembers when archery and muzzleloader seasons were called "primitive weapon hunts"?
They don't call them that anymore because we have strayed far from "primitive".
We've done that to ourselves because we didn't draw a line in the sand when we should have.

Now we have "sliders" (whatever those are?‍) and 500+ yard muzzleloaders.
Nothing "primitive" whatsoever.

Rifles were never intended to be limited, hence hundreds of various calibers to reach further and hit harder.

FYI- No I'm not solely defending rifles.
I love muzzleloader hunting because it gives me the best of both worlds.
A good "in between" archery and rifle hunting and i would definitely support going backwards to limit it's capabilities, and my own.

Just thinking while having my coffee this morning ?

This is a slider sight...

Ever wonder wonder why it is that UT seems to be the only one having this problem? Maybe let that be your answer. It's UT's practices that are the problem, not the hunters...

 

[elkassassin]

I'll Give a Little!

But if ALL Weapons Are Not Restricted in the Same FAIR Way I'm Not Giving!

This Would Be The Same As banning One Brand Of Trail Cam!

Or One Breed of Apple!

Not Much Different Than The AssHoles Wanting To Ban Guns!

Which Gun They Gonna Pick On First?

Yup!

The Easiest Gun They Might Be Able To Take!

Then There's People Like dude that Would Gladly Let Them Take Em!

What He Doesn't Realize Is He'd Lose His Favorite Elk Gun Shortly after They Take Black Guns!

 

[roadrunner]

Not Much Different Than The AssHoles Wanting To Ban Guns!

Which Gun They Gonna Pick On First?

Which is why I said before to be careful what you wish for UT, you may not like what you end up with during the trail cam debates.

Once special interest groups understand how to slip something by, it all goes downhill from there...

 

[slamdunk]

This is a slider sight...


View attachment 72213


Ever wonder wonder why it is that UT seems to be the only one having this problem? Maybe let that be your answer. It's UT's practices that are the problem, not the hunters...

Absolutely 100% without question.
And anyone who doesn't understand this needs their head checked.
UTARDS ARE SPOILED!!

 

[roadrunner]

Absolutely 100% without question.
And anyone who doesn't understand this needs their head checked.
UTARDS ARE SPOILED!!

And why this gives the bowhunter the edge and not the rangefinder. A fixed sight guy has a rangerfinder as well...

 

[slamdunk]

And why this gives the bowhunter the edge and not the rangefinder. A fixed sight guy has a rangerfinder as well...

I really think finding a compromise and drawing a line in the sand is not too much to ask for from both sides.
One thing is for damn sure......we cannot just let technology continue the direction it's going.

Whats wrong with an archer using a handheld rangefinder like the good old days?

Is having a 24x scope on a muzzleloader really needed?

Why does a modern rifle need a built in rangefinder inside the scope?

Because we have allowed it.

 

[roadrunner]

I really think finding a compromise and drawing a line in the sand is not too much to ask for from both sides.
One thing is for damn sure......we cannot just let technology continue the direction it's going.

Whats wrong with an archer using a handheld rangefinder like the good old days?

Is having a 24x scope on a muzzleloader really needed?

Why does a modern rifle need a built in rangefinder inside the scope?

Because we have allowed it.

None of this was a problem until recently...

 

[Bigfoot 1]

I really think finding a compromise and drawing a line in the sand is not too much to ask for from both sides.
One thing is for damn sure......we cannot just let technology continue the direction it's going.

Whats wrong with an archer using a handheld rangefinder like the good old days?

Is having a 24x scope on a muzzleloader really needed?

Why does a modern rifle need a built in rangefinder inside the scope?

Because we have allowed it.

Need has nothing to do with it. Why do we NEED to hunt? Guys like us that can afford to hunt can surely buy our meat at the market. Life is not about NEEDS it’s about WANTS.

 

[SS!]

This thread is creepy and weird.

 

[BillyBoB]

Slam defends his LR rifle in one thread and starts another about how we all need to limit our technology during the archery and muzzy hunts. Am I suppose to take this thread serious?

 

[slamdunk]

Slam defends his LR rifle in one thread and starts another about how we all need to limit our technology during the archery and muzzy hunts. Am I suppose to take this thread serious?

Where did I defend my rifle?
I've never killed anything over 100 yards with my LRR.....

 

[Silentstalker]

I really think finding a compromise and drawing a line in the sand is not too much to ask for from both sides.
One thing is for damn sure......we cannot just let technology continue the direction it's going.

Whats wrong with an archer using a handheld rangefinder like the good old days?

Is having a 24x scope on a muzzleloader really needed?

Why does a modern rifle need a built in rangefinder inside the scope?

Because we have allowed it.

You may not have seen it, but you haven’t answered my question. What is the goal if this push?

As to your questions,

I would support the limitation of a handheld rangefinder for bow hunters.

I would support a limitation of a certain power of scope on a muzzleloader say 3-9 or 4-12? Or 6x or?? Certainly not a 1x tho.

But, there better be a limitation on the weapon that decimates our buck herd annually. I would recommend no dialing turrets and no built in rangefinders on rifles.

Seems equitable.

 

[grizzly]

I'm still waiting for the first person who says that hunters are our own worst enemy and shouldn't divide each other up arguing over hunting methods and ethics to follow it up with, "That's why I'm going to take your side."

Everybody who says hunters shouldn't have disagreements thinks the other side should agree with their opinion, it's never the other way around.

 

[slamdunk]

"You may not have seen it, but you haven’t answered my question. What is the goal if this push?"

A line has got to be drawn on technology somewhere doesn't it?
It should have been a long time ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Other states saw it coming long ago and drew their lines.
Utah didn't and chose to give us and technology all the freedom we wanted, and here we are.

A bow shoots an arrow.
A muzzleloader loads from the front.
A rifle shoots a bullet.
All three have their individual limitations yet we have maximized them and will continue to do so until we police ourselves at least somewhat.

What's next, twin carbon barrels on a muzzleloader so a guy can have a quick follow up shot without having to reload?

Ten years ago we would have laughed at the thought of sitting at home on the couch or lying in bed getting a text picture that "Elvis" just hit bait pile #8 at 9:05 and then he hit the guzzler on camera #14 at 11:52pm and a guzzler at camera #12 at 5:47am.

Again.....gadgetry isn't what is killing our herds across the west and to think so is just absurd.
FLIR, night vision, trail cameras and whatever will come out next year is not what is killing does, but we need to pull the reins back at some point on technology........don't we?

 

[slamdunk]

I'm still waiting for the first person who says that hunters are our own worst enemy and shouldn't divide each other up arguing over hunting methods and ethics to follow it up with, "That's why I'm going to take your side."

Everybody who says hunters shouldn't have disagreements thinks the other side should agree with their opinion, it's never the other way around.

So who wins the division amongst us, those who want rules or those who don't?

Do we want to remove bag limits too?
I mean those are regulations as well and an original line drawn in the sand, aren't they?

 

[SS!]

Seriously what’s in the coffee?

 

[Bigfoot 1]

You may not have seen it, but you haven’t answered my question. What is the goal if this push?

As to your questions,

I would support the limitation of a handheld rangefinder for bow hunters.

I would support a limitation of a certain power of scope on a muzzleloader say 3-9 or 4-12? Or 6x or?? Certainly not a 1x tho.

But, there better be a limitation on the weapon that decimates our buck herd annually. I would recommend no dialing turrets and no built in rangefinders on rifles.

Seems equitable.

Do turrets and range finders make you a better hunter?

 

[Tristate]

So who wins the division amongst us, those who want rules or those who don't?

Do we want to remove bag limits too?
I mean those are regulations as well and an original line drawn in the sand, aren't they?

I propose the rule that if you take a shot you must travel to the spot and search for blood. No assuming you missed and walking away. Second if blood or tissue is found your hunt is over. No shooting at other animals. Your tag is punched.

 

[slamdunk]

I propose the rule that if you take a shot you must travel to the spot and search for blood. No assuming you missed and walking away. Second if blood or tissue is found your hunt is over. No shooting at other animals. Your tag is punched.

I certainly agree to this and is a rule most outfitters use on private land CWMU's.

Unfortunately though..........

 

[Bigfoot 1]

Yep, I hear ya, but the morality Police don’t hang out where we hunt.

 

[roadrunner]

I propose the rule that if you take a shot you must travel to the spot and search for blood. No assuming you missed and walking away. Second if blood or tissue is found your hunt is over. No shooting at other animals. Your tag is punched.

Just like self-policing on technology, this requires an honor code that many don't have...

 

[Tristate]

Just like self-policing on technology, this requires an honor code that many don't have...

I agree but I still believe the majority of hunters can follow rules and are decent people.

It takes honor not to just ground check bucks but we follow that rule also.

 

[elkfromabove]

When I was growing up watching high school, college and professional basketball games, the players ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS got as close to the basket as they could before attempting a shot. But nowadays, that doesn't happen. Why? Because now you get 3 points, instead of 2, if you make a basket behind a certain arched line away from the basket.

You can restrict the hunting technology all you want, but it WILL NOT reduce the long-term success rates simply because "when you change the rules of the game you change the way it is played" Just like basketball players (or most any other person), most hunters will simply adjust their behavior to reach the same outcome/success rates. I'm suspect your intentions are misguided and will not be fulfilled.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

When I was growing up watching high school, college and professional basketball games, the players ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS got as close to the basket as they could before attempting a shot. But nowadays, that doesn't happen. Why? Because now you get 3 points, instead of 2, if you make a basket behind a certain arched line away from the basket.

You can restrict the hunting technology all you want, but it WILL NOT reduce the long-term success rates simply because "when you change the rules of the game you change the way it is played" Just like basketball players (or most any other person), most hunters will simply adjust their behavior to reach the same outcome/success rates. I'm suspect your intentions are misguided and will not be fulfilled.

Who is the moral authority on what’s right and wrong when it comes to technology? Some might think using handheld radios or cell phones is wrong, others may think nothing of using a drone or game cameras. Some won’t hunt over feeders or water holes. I guess that’s why we have laws that regulate hunting. As long as you’re not breaking the law or hurting somebody I reckon everything is fair game if it’s legal. Your thoughts?

 

[Silentstalker]

A line has got to be drawn on technology somewhere doesn't it?
It should have been a long time ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Other states saw it coming long ago and drew their lines.
Utah didn't and chose to give us and technology all the freedom we wanted, and here we are.

A bow shoots an arrow.
A muzzleloader loads from the front.
A rifle shoots a bullet.
All three have their individual limitations yet we have maximized them and will continue to do so until we police ourselves at least somewhat.

What's next, twin carbon barrels on a muzzleloader so a guy can have a quick follow up shot without having to reload?

Ten years ago we would have laughed at the thought of sitting at home on the couch or lying in bed getting a text picture that "Elvis" just hit bait pile #8 at 9:05 and then he hit the guzzler on camera #14 at 11:52pm and a guzzler at camera #12 at 5:47am.

Again.....gadgetry isn't what is killing our herds across the west and to think so is just absurd.
FLIR, night vision, trail cameras and whatever will come out next year is not what is killing does, but we need to pull the reins back at some point on technology........don't we?

But what is the end goal? Are we trying to reduce harvest? Are we trying to regulate bowhunting and muzzleloading? Are you just hell bent on technology? If So, why are you wanting to change the bow and muzzy regs but not the rifle?

How many double barrel muzzleloader have you seen out there hunting or even in the stores? I have seen zero and I spend a lot of time out hunting and shooting.

If gadgetry isn’t killing our herds then why are we even talking about this? Why are we not putting every dollar we can towards saving our herds. If the herds were on the rise or at least stable we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

 

[Tristate]

But what is the end goal? Are we trying to reduce harvest? Are we trying to regulate bowhunting and muzzleloading? Are you just hell bent on technology? If So, why are you wanting to change the bow and muzzy regs but not the rifle?

How many double barrel muzzleloader have you seen out there hunting or even in the stores? I have seen zero and I spend a lot of time out hunting and shooting.

If gadgetry isn’t killing our herds then why are we even talking about this? Why are we not putting every dollar we can towards saving our herds. If the herds were on the rise or at least stable we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

This is basically what I've been saying. We have to make the herds first. Then we can sort out the hunting ethics later.

 

[slamdunk]

This is basically what I've been saying. We have to make the herds first. Then we can sort out the hunting ethics later.

Recovering herd numbers takes years and we have to be patient while putting the blocks into place.

In the meantime, we can stop a double barrel muzzleloader from even being developed because there won't be a market for it if we reign in technology first.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Who is the moral authority on what’s right and wrong when it comes to technology? Some might think using handheld radios or cell phones is wrong, others may think nothing of using a drone or game cameras. Some won’t hunt over feeders or water holes. I guess that’s why we have laws that regulate hunting. As long as you’re not breaking the law or hurting somebody I reckon everything is fair game if it’s legal. Your thoughts?

Slam is the authority just ask him.

 

[roadrunner]

Recovering herd numbers takes years and we have to be patient while putting the blocks into place.

In the meantime, we can stop a double barrel muzzleloader from even being developed because there won't be a market for it if we reign in technology first.

But only in UT. Remember, UT is the only state with this dilemma right now...

 

[slamdunk]

But only in UT. Remember, UT is the only state with this dilemma right now...

Yes....correct

 

[BillyBoB]

Sorry I’ve been late to the party. I was catching up on reading the comments after I got home from my double barrel LR muzzleloader sniper classes from Chris Kyle. Doesn’t look like I’ve missed much. Just more bickering. I’ve read some articles about vehicle/animal collisions. ? maybe we can bicker in person as we dig post holes