I didn't read this......

[eelgrass]

In the Big Game Digest put out by F&W.

You can still get two B tags. Why not make it three?

Pretty interesting read. Read the whole article.

All this time I thought I was losing my edge as a hunter. Heck, I used to be able to see deer.

I would be interested in your comments.
-------------------------------------------------------------

California deer face more challenges than ever

The strange saga of California's deer herds is in the spotlight again this weekend as fall hunting season nears.

Deer numbers statewide are down 80 percent, a new invasive louse is causing deer baldness on the Peninsula and in parts of the Sierra foothills, and predation of fawns by mountain lions and bears is taking out a higher percentage of the herds than ever.

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/California-deer-face-more-challenges-than-ever-4833244.php

Eel

 

[huntwithhoyt]

Eel I live in glenn county. I can remember a few years back going up on the west side B zones. come back down the hill and see deer almost all the way to Willows. And I would see 50 to 70 deer A day. Now you go up and your lucky to see 5 to 7and you won't see many if any at all below alder springs. IMO they need to cut the b zones back to 1 tag.

 

[sageadvice]

"Last year, 182,000 tags were sold, which continued a long-term decline, but sales still helped generate $300,000..."

Is somebody getting discount tags? Math error, must be!

Glad to see someone other than us actually place a good chunk of our diminishing deer herds on predators. We've known this for years but the F&G has placed the most reduction of numbers due to reduced habitat and around here, that is a very small reason or simply not the case!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[HunterHarry]

My son & I both filled our A zone blacktail tags, mine with a bow, his with a rifle.
We backpacked deep into the Trinity Alps wilderness for opening weekend of B2, fog, snow and heavy rain hampered our attempts at glassing up a trophy, we still saw bucks but not the monsters we were looking for.
That hunt ain't for old guys I'll tell you that and I'm really not sure how much longer I can do it, it's physical difficulty compares with anything I've ever done whether in the Rocky Mountains or Alaska, still licking my wounds.
Cali still has OTC big buck potential, it's just a lot tougher than it used to be.

 

[Ridn9high]

I haven't read anything that DFG has put out in a long time. I think California needs to cut back on a lot of tags in most areas. I believe they're doing more damage by allowing so many tags for each area than the damage that predators, poachers and loss of habitat is doing.

Can D3-5 really support 15,000 deer to be killed and have a healthy herd? Can the D6 herd really be healthy if 10,000 deer were killed? I know not everyone is going to kill a buck with their tag, but by allowing so many tags, it's not helping the herds.

I know hunters would ##### and complain if they cut tag numbers or even shortened season, but I think you all would have a better herd and see more deer each season. Hunters ##### about not seeing deer or never killing a buck, but they don't want to make any little sacrifice to help the herd.

Being that I used to hunt D6 a lot, lets use it as an example....
What if Cali split the seasons like Colorado and made hunters chose whether they wanted to hunt the first part of season or for the second half of season? What if they cut tag number to 5,000? Maybe have 2500 tags for 1st season (3rd Saturday of September and run 14 days) and make 2nd season(2nd Saturday of October and run for 14 days) A hunters would have to decide if they wanted to put in their 1st choice on their application for 1st or 2nd season, being they couldn't hunt both.

It makes me laugh when guys are waiting 4-5 years for an X-zone just to shoot the first pisscutter forky they see on opening morning when they do finally draw.

 

[NECALI]

Or as some, 10 years for X5B only to shoot a forky. Which is what I saw last year, and even asked about the 10year wait. Two just wanted meat and a third said he couldn't help it.

 

[eelgrass]

"Yet the high numbers of small black-tailed deer near civilization can make it seem that there are more deer than ever, and in turn, create the illusion that there is no need for concern or steps to conserve the deer."

That part is very true. My wife looks at me funny when I'm gone for a couple days hunting and come home without seeing a buck. "You should have stayed home then. There was two in the back yard yesterday evening".

I think these deer hang close to civilization to avoid predators.

Eel

 

[bullskin]

From what I can tell, reducing the number of X tags had little impact on deer numbers or quality. I truly hope that CA does not cut more tags. D3-5 cannot support 15,000 deer killed, but (as you have suggested) 15,000 tags does not equate to nearly that many deer on the ground. The problem with D3-5 is not that too many deer are killed--it is that there in not much good habitat. We need more burns. And replanting burns with young pine does the deer no good after five or ten years. Where I have found the oaks, I continue to find good deer. Find the oak/brush canyons and figure out how to hunt them. And anyone who kills a forked horn in an X zone should have his license revoked!

 

[yollyhunter]

the moral of the whole story is californias game laws are absolutley ridiculous and I could go on about it for ever. But to save my breath I will just say that I suggest hunting out of state. Ive been lucky enough to fill both my B zone tags the last to seasons, one each year with my bow and one each year with my rifle, but the numbers here are terrible.

 

[eelgrass]

I know you're right yollyhunter. At my age I just get frustrated because I remember how good it was back in the 60's, and how good it could be again. Isn't going to happen, at least in my life time.

I resolve to work harder, and let the past go. Congratulations on your success!

Eel

 

[tawstaxidermy]

How true all this is.
One other thing that hurt are deer numbers is when they allowed a person to hunt all the b-zones and c-zones with one tag . The hunting went bad to why even go hunting here anymore. Unless you have private property to hunt. Myself I cant see spending the money in gas to hunt much here. I will give my cash to other states where there is game and come home with my deer or elk most every time.
I, wish fish and game would pull there heads out of there #$@ and manage the game instead of trying to make more tv shows
but that wont happen.

 

[stillhunterman]

The deer plight in California is no different than all the other states in the west. All have taken huge hits on the mule deer herds (and Blacktail) and the timing of the declines is eerily similar across the board. Something is going on and it has NOTHING to do with too many tags being issued. I hunted there for 30 years before I left, so I can relate to the older hunters who remember the deer numbers before they started to decline.

There has to be a paradigm swing in deer management that focuses on actual 'deer management', utilizing the best science avaliable, and taking it to the next level: genetics, virology, environmental, hydrologic effects/cycles, etc. We have to stop doing the same old things that have failed for decades and shift out of the box. But apathetic hunters will not make this happen, there has to be a clear and loud voice heard. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it can be done... But I hope.


www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

 

[HunterHarry]

The two ton elephant in the room that everyone is too PC to mention is the incredibly rampant deer poaching by Mexicans, both by pot farmers and those who poach to feed their huge families.

There, I said it. x(

 

[stillhunterman]

I agree with you HH, seen it for myself up in Mendocino county many, many times. They take an incredible amount of critters for sure, but it's not the reason the deer are suffering. What pizzed me off was the F&G treated my calls like "oh well, not much we can do about it". Sucks, I know.

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

 

[Hardway]

The Gooks are just as bad as the Mexicans. I was at the gas station the other day and a bunch of them all camo'd out were looking in the back of a pickup. I walked over expecting to see a small buck and low and behold there was about 50 grey squirells, a few chipmunks, and some random birds. I called and gave license plate # to Caltip.

Its a cultural thing for them I think, had the whole damn family....elderly grandmother and all.

 

[brownie]

The old timers had it right. When they came to this country, the lions, bears, and coyotes ran roughshod on all the other game animals. They reduced the predator populations, havested the trees, and California had a deer population explosion. Nowdays, we protect the lions, can't harvest more than 1700 bears, save the trees, so we can have a catostrofic wildfire, and we wonder what the problem is. The enviromental movement,biological diversity, piss poor forest management and anti hunters in the top positions at the DWR, thats what are problems are. Common sense wildlife management has worked in the past, and could work again, but we as the hunting population have to become vocal, we cant sit on the sidelines and expect things to go our way.

WAKE UP DEER HUNTERS!!!

Thanks

Brownie

 

[easymoney]

Spot on...
Over management for a dollar, but poor common sense has led us down this road.





Stop Global Whining