I heard something interesting the other day...

H

HuntinAddict

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The other day I casually asked this middle aged man who he was going to vote for and the reasoning behind it. This was his response:

"I am going to vote for Obama...... We have had white leaders since the U.S. was the U.S. and I know what they can do. Now I want to give a Black Man a chance to see what he can do".

I found that to be the most interesting answer that I have heard. I then told him not to broadcast that too loudly as there are a high number of RedNecks around these parts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-08 AT 10:31AM (MST)[p]So it is the color of the skin and not what a person's policies are that matters? That is about the most idiotic statement I have heard yet. I thought all the "progressives" wanted a color blind society?

Obama being black doesn't sway my opinion one way or the other. His views on income redistribution, tax policies and lack of a record sway me not to vote for him.

I don't find anything interesting in that comment just another stupid American too dumb to decide to decide who to vote for based on the issues.

Nemont
 
Nemont do you see privatized profits and socialized losses as any worse than Obama's plan? I find it hard to fault anyones economic plan after what we've seen in the last few weeks. I do like McSame's 50% reduction in capitol gains idea, not only would that please me but it would give the economy a jump start I think. I'm not sure he'd ever get it done , but it doesn't matter he's toast anyway.

Yes the handout was it was bipartisan, I think that makes it even worse, they're all socialist. worse yet it may not even help that much, dow is up one day, down the next we're a long ways from out of the woods. some of the largest percentage gains in the dow's history were during the great depression, kind of what we're seeing here now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-08 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]HD,

It is a fatal flaw to assume that just because I don't like Obama's ideas that I like McCain's.

Here is what I want to hear from anybody who has an issue with Sarah Palin not having a record: Give me Obama's record on anything meaningful, some major intiative or piece of legislation he authored, championed and had enacted into law.

The guy is Number one on his ticket and has not ever had a real job that involved not recieving a government paycheck. How can he possible know what issue are important to me and my family? I don't believe Obama gives to rips about me or the viability of my business? Not that McCain does either but that I just cannot understand the hero worship Obama is getting.

I don't like the comment to the hard working plumber because it shows Obama doesn't think hard work is important to attain the American dream. He wants to redistribute money that I worked hard for to people "behind me" WTF kind of stupid policy is that?

Anybody who is watching the DOW as a measure of our current economic problems has their eyes on the wrong target. A better picture is painted by watching the credit markets, inter bank lending rates and commercial paper markets. If you don't have perfect credit go try and buy a new vehicle right now. Ain't going to happen.

Nemont
 
hey NeMont, why try to explain to an Indian. they don't have to worry about higher taxes or the redistribution of wealth. their democrats take care of all that for them. not a racist here,but i don't think they should have a vote.
 
Not a racist? good one. just who is more American than us war whoops? good luck keeping us from voting. as far as I'm concerned you should need a minimum of 10 generations of American heritage to vote or apply for a hunting license. I paid enough taxes I didn't qualify for a stimulus check so I don't know where you came up with we don't pay taxes, what a moron.

Nemont I don't think Obama is all that qualified, and I know Palin isn't. look at it this way, Obama has the education to become a CEO or anything else he wanted to, so does Biden, both have law degrees and extensive educations. McCain finished 894 out of a naval academy class of 899 and it's said if his dad wasn't an admiral he wouldn't have finished at all. Palin bounced around 5 schools just become a sportscaster. so if you look at job qualification as a business would, McCain and Palin wouldn't even get an interview at most managment positions . while none of the 4 candidates are not my first choice I can't see where Obama takes a back seat in the abilty to learn or lead against a couple flunkies. considering his background the fact he's going to be the next president is nothing short of amazing, by hook or crook he gets it done. he's proven he has the intelligence and abilty to be president, how have to wait to see how good of one.
 
"I can't see where Obama takes a back seat in the abilty to learn or lead against a couple flunkies. considering his background the fact he's going to be the next president is nothing short of amazing, by hook or crook he gets it done."

"by hook or crook" is the key phrase to that statement!:)

Eel
 
I heard a black guy call in on the Neal Boortz radio show the other day. He was struggling with who to vote for. On the one hand he really liked some of McCains ideas, more so than Obamas. But he was also struggling with what he called the Martin Luther King factor. He said he felt a certain obligation to King and to his race to vote for Obama.

I think I can actually understand his dilemma.

Eel
 
Obama is as much white as he is black, I'll never understand how racist from both sides fail to see that. just focus on what one sees as the worst in everyone I guess, that's a great way to be.
 
dude,you must be going about it all wrong if your paying more than your fair share. i can't believe i got called a moron by an extreme liberal savage from oregon. if you think things are bad now,you just wait til the democrats have all three rings of the circus!!! you give me one thing he is going to do that is going to benefit me and my way of life.
 
unless your on the government gravy train really heavily like halliburton or blackwater you should benefit from less deficit spending and a brighter future for people that work for a living shouldn't hurt anyone
 
"Obama is as much white as he is black, I'll never understand how racist from both sides fail to see that."

Obama fails to see it himself, he seems to be as racist as the one's from both sides you mention. I guess it's not racist when Obama feels this way about himself.

A few quotes from his books, which have been checked out by snopes.

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."----This is an accurate quote from the introduction to Dreams from My Father. The book chronicles Obama's experience as the son of an African father and an American mother.

"There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."---This is a quote from Dreams from My Father. It it in a section in which Obama describes a job interview with a man in Chicago.

It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."---This one is also from Dreams from My Father. It is from a section when Obama was a college student and wrestling with his identity including as an African-American.

"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, Dubois and Mandela."---This is from Dreams from my Father.
 
what the hell do you mean government gravy train and less spending? people in this country are a little foggy on the two parties ways. the republicans screw the mid working class and give it to big corporations. the democrats screw the mid working class and give it to the lazy bastards who ride the system and the extreme enviro groups who want all your freedoms that everyone on this site work all week to enjoy on the weekends. as screwed up as it is, big corporations create actual wealth and big government will eventually cause wide spread poverty. so i would say thats a no brainer to me. poor,lazy people do me no good. companies that have money do. ALL politicians are scumbags and don't give a rip about joe plumber unless he has enough money to fill their bank account to buy 2 million dollar homes when all you have ever done is work for the government. keep voting in the radical democrats and the next chat will be on monster bird watching! pick your poison boys, but i like guns,hunting,fishing,etc.
 
Piper,

Please explain where you get this notion the there will be less deficit spending with an Obama/Biden administration. With the country entering a recession that will likely be long and deep revenues to Washington will fall dramatically, spending will not fall at all because of all the proposed new programs. If the Dems have a fillibuster proof majority in the Senate there will be no constraints on spending for democrats pet projects.

Mark my words with complete democrat control the spending that will be as much when the republicans had complete control. Watch because anyone who has faith in this fallacy of politicians wanting to cut spending is dillusional.

There is no way to deliver even half of what Obama has promised on the revenues that will come into Washington and there is not enough tax increases out there to finance it either.

Nemont
 
I think either McCain or Obama will tone down the deficit spending there is much pressure to do so, Clinton did it with the 1993 deficit reduction act, he raised taxes a small amount and cut spending,although the dotcom boom was what created the supposed surplus, If people were really paying for the government programs there would be pressure to cut waste, using a credit card is a mistake, remember when Cheney was to have said "deficits don't matter Reagan proved that"? the big things are what needs fixing, military spending needs to be looked at, health care needs to change its killing the budget on medicare the drug war prison system complex needs fixing, its a lot of work but nothing is going to happen if we keep borrowing and I blame the right wing mostly for that habit, and have you ever heard anything as stupid as the point blank statement, tax cuts create more revenue, if that were true we should keep cutting taxes, there is plenty more to cut, whenever I think about the BBs in a box cart joke I think about ditto heads
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-08 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]Piper,

I agree withyou regarding stupid Republican borrowing policies. That isn't what you said. You said that deficit spending will come down in an Obama/Biden administration.

There is no way: 1. The soft economy will produce less tax revenue, period 2. Even if the wars ended today and they won't most spending is already programmed 3. The promises that Obama has made cannot be financed on current revenues and expenditures, it is impossible.

Tax cuts, not tax cuts, borrowing and spending, pay go rules none of that is going to matter for a couple of reasons. One is already stated, the economy will not produce enough revenue to fund our government even at it's current size. More importantly all the money was just spent on the "bailout".

There are certain taxes that when reduced do indeed produce more tax revenue. It depends on what and how things are getting taxed.

If you have a tax that penalizes people for investing in new technology, new equipment and new jobs then you end up with less revenue then if you reduced taxes on those things, it is counter intuitive but it is true. If Obama wanted to do one thing for the economy that would give it an almost instant boost would be to modify Sarbanes-Oxley so more companies are incorporated here rather then off shore. Sarbox dramatically increases the cost of doing business and it was a regulatory overreaction to the Enron meltdown.

Nemont
 
Opie, I'm a liberal savage? that's a new one. Like Obama I'm a half breed, only I'm war whoop rather than black so does that make me just half a savage? or like Obama am I all savage like he's all spook? maybe it's just the white half of me thay pays taxes? maybe I should get a 50% discount since savages don't pay? what a moron.

Did I say I paid more taxes than my share? I said I paid a butt load of taxes , more than I'd like but I can't say more than my share. the point is us savages do pay taxes, there's good money in scalps these days.

Given our current economy, the " bleak " war in the middle east according to our own government intel report, our world standing and our doubled national debt I find it laughable to think Obama or anyone else could do much worse.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-08 AT 02:52PM (MST)[p]HD,

I don't know if I use the standard of "he can't do any worse then the last guy". If one uses that standard though then there is a better then even money chance Obama will do as bad for this country in the long run by saddling the taxpayers with costs even higher then the bailout.

Universal health care alone will be the single largest, and I would argue most fiscally irresponsible, taxpayer program ever.

Look at some data on the cost of care immediately after Medicare came into being, or more recently in the complete and total boondoggle of medicare Part D.

I have no interest in letting the goverment set up my health plan if the same people who brought us Medicare Part D are involved.

There is simply not enough money to fund all of this and our growing debt only makes that more obvious. We cannot continue to offer all things to all people and Obama/Biden seem to think we can.

Obama can screw up, he is fallible and he can do as much permanent damage to our country and economy as GWB has done, period.

Nemont
 
True , I wouldn't argue that he's not going to screw up, in fact I expect it. but what makes you think McSame is going to be any better than Bush or Obama?

Our health care system is broken, at least the paying for it part is. I'm not sure what the answer is but something needs to be done, it's not like we're only paying our own bills as it is so I'm willing to try something, if it doesn't work tweak it or try something new. doing nothing has never solved anything.
 
That is why I am so cynical I don't think McCain's ideas are any better then Obamas.

If I thought univeral care would do anything to lower costs I would be all for it. It won't do a thing and those who are paying the for their health insurance now will not see their premiums reduced through either candidates plan.

The government has just nationalized the largest mortgage lenders and the largest insurance companies, I don't want to nationalize another 20% of our economy. It will break us for good.

I don't think McCain/Palin have a clue about the economy or what needs to be done. I also don't think Obama does either, he certainly has no record of anything in the economic area, he has never ran a business, ever worked in the private sector to see what kind of havoc addition regulation can have on a business.

One of these two idiots is going to be running the country. The only reason I would ever want McCain in there is because of the Democrats controlling the House and Senate. Even that doesn't sit real well with me but I could advocate that type of government but an all democrat controlled government will be as bad as an all Republican controlled government.

Nemont
 
US citizens spent about 2.3 trillion on health care last year from what I understand, around 16% of GDP, France the largest country in western europe spent 9.5% of GDP, do the math, if we could do that, it would be around a trillion dollar savings and its pretty well known that France has some of the highest quality health care in the world. no one goes bankrupt or goes without preventive care, Im not saying it could be done, but in those kinds of ways Americans are responsible for our economic problems, maybe we like it that way?
 
Piper,
Since you are privy to the previously mentioned statistics, I am curious if you can differntiate between the cost of actual health care and health insurance; what type of preventive health care was initiated and/or received and when a patient saught care were they initially seen by medical personel or a screening non-medical personel. I am curious and if you could site your references I would like to cross reference them with what I can find.
 
Nemont as usual I agree with most of what you said. the only thing I can say is what we're doing with health care cost isn't working. so, while I don't have any answers I say lets try something, somebody come up with a plan and lets try it, we can always tweak it or scrap it and go back to no plan just like we have now. this matter is going to break us and leave US companies unable to compete in a world market, I don't think sitting on our thumbs is an option much longer.
 
mbogomojo, a couple of sources on the 2.3 trillion cost, AARP is one, the health care to GDP% of the US and many other countrys can be googled, I believe that cost includes insurance if thats part of the system, in 2000 the W.H.O did a study on health care of the worlds industrialized countrys, France was rated #1 in quality, the U.S was rated #22, health care is a pet peeve of mine, and I get my info from different sources, as far as preventive care goes, in my opinion its a cost and a pre existing condition/insurance problem in this country, that I get from talking to people and how I feel, if Im wrong or misinformed on any of this stuff let me know, I wish all the people in our country had the facts on this issue whatever they may be
 
piper, citing WHO, who is as biased as any org in the world is your first error. Looking at only one factor is another. What is France's unemployment rate? That DOES matter, as it dictates who is footing the bill for all that 'wondeful' health care.

Truth is NEITHER candidate will eliminate or even reduce the national debt. It has never been designed to have happen. Even if the Government stopped all new spending for the next 20 years we wouldn't dent the ND. The scheme is how the Federal Reserve, a 100% PRIVATE company 'lends' America 9+ trillion dollars, when the government can stop that in a heart beat and issue it's own money ANY time it wishes. Or better yet, we can go back to the gold standard and get rid of the fiat monetary scam...er I mean system we have in play today.

Question is, do we want an Admin that borrows and spends, or one that borrows, taxes and spends? They BOTH are mere puppets and NEITHER is the solution.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
pro I dont know what W.H.O is biased about or against but if you don't like France, we could compare Germany, S korea, Australia, Japan, Canada or any other industralized country, and when people pay outlandish medical bills in our country, they should remember that they are footing the bill for someone elses 'wonderful' health care also, and tell me dont you think if we were truly paying the bills in this country, the citizens would demand spending cuts? its so easy to spend on credit
 
Pro, as a Bushie you should run from the national debt topic screaming like your teeth are on fire.

Question is do we want another administration that doubles the debt?
 
I have a Canuck that calls on me for wood finishes. He said the healthcare in Canada is not very good and that his tax rate there as a business owner was almost 50%!! I do not want to pay that or there will be 10 more families on welfare.
 
If you took your income tax, health care and insurance cost and the 600 other taxes you pay without even thinking about it we're not far from 50%.

Canada's system isn't perfect, but we don't even have a system. don't think you're not paying the welfare bums bills anyway, how many dead ones do you see on the hospital steps?
 
Addict - That has got to be the dumbest reason to vote for a candidate ever. I hope you told your buddy that too.
 
The W.H.O. tells the truth more in a week than the A.M.A. does in a year. As an exampel, the W.H.O. just busted a group of African medical 'leaders' for hyperinflating the number of AIDS patients in their countries so they could receive more cash funds (with our dead presidents on them) and medicine, the medicine sells quite well on the black market. The W.H.O. saved any country, which is really the US, millions of dollars if not more.
As citizens we need to harp on our elected officials to do two things:
1. take attorneys out of medicine and remove the threat of malpractice - the result, the cost of keeping the doctors or clinics or hospitals doors just dropped in unbelievable amounts. Prudent consumers know when they have a crappy doctor - and they fire him and go shopping - as consumers, we can take responsibility for our actions. I just got hosed by a mechanic, but I chose the putz.
2. make ALL insurance companies offer identical coverage for the same price. Frankly, insurance is a scam perpetrated on the consumer. Insurance companies rarely loose money, regardless of how loudly they cry.
At an investing seminar I attended, insurance investments were discussed. Simply stated: The insurance company takes the money received as a premium payment as income, then places that money into an investment of some type. Taking the average, during the course of their coverage most patients do not have more money paid out on their claims than they put in - there are exceptions of course, but on the average. Income that is transfered into investment is now considered a "loss" because it is not available to be paid out, it will eventually come out, but after it averages a 9% return. Two things can happen at this point, because a company has too much "loss", premiums are raised on new applicants or applicants that are requiring "riders" for coverage; or they just wait for the previously legislated insurance fee increase to become effective. Every state has them for every insurance. Insurance companies do not want the actual cost of health care to go down. Just think how devastating it would be if regular people could pay cash to go to the doctor. We wouldn't need an industry to buffer the cost of care for us. As medical costs rise, so do insurance premiums, we have to pay for the buffer. (as a side note, I invest in insurance companies that handle health care, mucho wampum)
Consider one other thing; how big is the insurance lobby? If I were a politician and I wanted to pay off a campaign or just make a buck or two on the side, who would I threaten - the barbers?? NO. And, I might just make an example of how one industry is linked with another - remember the housing insurance bust and AIG insurance?
 

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