Ibex hammertime

[DoeNob]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, JAN. 7, 2013:

Ibex hunting licenses offered for Florida Mountains
LAS CRUCES ? The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish will offer hunting licenses for female or immature male ibex beginning Jan. 9, 2013. The hunt dates will be Feb. 21 through March 31. All hunting will end when the harvest limit of 125 is reached.

Licenses will be available through the department online system and over the counter at department offices beginning Jan. 9. Any person who did not hold an ibex hunting license for the 2012-13 season is eligible to purchase one of these licenses. The cost of the license is $111 for residents and $1,630 for nonresidents.

This hunt is necessary because the ibex population is beyond the carrying capacity of the habitat. The bag limit will be two female or immature male ibex. Any hunter who harvests two ibex and has them verified by a conservation officer or at a Game and Fish Office, will be entered into a drawing for an either-sex ibex rifle hunt during the spring of 2014. All hunters must verify their harvests within five days.

All hunters must have a customer identification number to purchase these licenses. For information, please visit the department website at www.wildlife.state.nm.us or contact Kevin Rodden at the department's Las Cruces office at (575) 532-2100.

___________________________________________________

Does this seem like the best way to do a population reduction hunt to you guys? Unlimited licenses, go whack and stack 2 per person on until the cap gets reported - oh and feel free to take a week to let us know if you got one.

I am being an armchair biologist a bit here, but what do you guys who have spent time out there think?

 

[bogey]

Glad I drew my muzz tag for this year

 

[azdogman]

I will be there for 10 days. Will be a blast trying to loose a few arrows. Might be crowded but not a bad way to knock the numbers down. They should make the reporting sooner like 48 hours. I'm sure they allowed for some overage on the 125 though. It's a tough hunt though. I just wish the non res fees were cheaper.

 

[5yearcoueshunter]

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this as well. Maybe I'm being ignorant on how hard it might be to get one of these animals, but I can see the harvest well exceeding 125 within the first week and the department won't even know because you have 5 days to report it.
And I don't understand the 2 bag limit. For the October female hunt, there was over 600 people apply for the 100 licenses. I don't think participation would be a problem with a 1 bag limit. And to increase participation more, you give incentive to kill 2 by giving a special drawing for a billy tag the next year. Seems to me you are going to have people that normally wouldn't be interested in a Nanny hunt go try to kill 2 just for the increased chance of getting a Billy tag. To me it adds up to tons of people on the mountain and a way over-harvest.

Again, I could be completely wrong because of my ignorance of the animals and the mountain they live on. Might be a bunch of out of shape people like me head out there and go back to the truck cuz they can't climb the mountain. lol

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Travis

 

[NMhunter4life]

I think the ibex are a little too thick on the mountain right now, but I am not sure this is the best way to get the population down. I could definitely see them going way over the 125 limit within the 5 day reporting window. 48 hours would be a better time interval. Does anyone know the success rate for the current F-IM hunt? It would seem that they could just open up 1 or 2 more of these hunts and it wouldn't be such a zoo come opening morning.

With the way they have it set up now you would think that they are super hard to stalk in on and it is going to be difficult to hit the quota. I was just down there for 3 1/2 days and trust me it is not very difficult to get within rifle range.

 

[mozey]

Not a fan of this at all. If there are too many, just move some over to the Cookes, Hatchets, or Brokeoffs so that we can get a little more feasible year round action.

 

[LIK2HNT]

I bet not to many NR apply. I would have no problem forking out the money for a chance for a billy. Whick I do every year. Little steep for a female. I agree it seems like it would be
hard to control the number taken with an up to 5 day report time.

Bill

 

[dang302]

Easy hunt, I bet I could kill 125 in a week by myself (not including the time for retrieve of course). I think they are behind the ball on this one and are panicking at the last minute for fear of them spreading. New proclamation has this same hunt for next year and then they realized they can't wait another year to reduce the population. They will do this hunt for the next 2-3 years and pound them into nothing like they did in the 90's (almost a direct quote from the guy I spoke with yesterday at G&F) The hope is to reduce the herd while maintaining the trophy hunts (ya right!).

I wish they would spread! Cool animal, but most would rather spend billions of dollars reintroducing desert bighorns that may possibly provide one tag for hunting in say 20 years...that is of course if they don't all die off.

 

[smarba]

Typical Game Commission CLUSTER!

I echo the concerns that with unlimited tags, if even a couple hundred elect to participate, they could end up with WAY over the quota killed before the hunt can even be shut down.

Here we have a premier free-ranging species and they are going to hammer the numbers without thinking things through.

Would have been much better to incorporate a monthly hunt similar to off-range oryx with limited numbers of hunters on the mountain so that kill numbers could be closely monitored.

Reminds me of the last year Barbary Sheep were OTC. Seemed like everybody and their brother turned out to get their last chance and it was a ZOO!

While rugged, the Floridas are miniscule in comparison to the entire Barbary Sheep range, so imagine how crowded it's going to be.

This is a RIFLE hunt! Beware lots of flying lead!

Also, how many people can judge a 15" ibex? 15" is SMALL. I bet any billy that is recognizeable as a male is way over 15", so I perceive a real risk of larger ibex being killed and left behind.

Just one more mess in the track record of game management in NM.

Carl

 

[Reuben_Soady]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-13 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]Gee whiz. Search and Rescue must have put in a request for more "practice". Just imagine rapping into a ledge to retrieve a gumby with a busted femur and all that lead flying.

Are there other mountain ranges down there that are big enough and isolated enough to keep the ibex from spreading (as I expect they would if they were transplanted to Cookes et.al)?

Organ?
Hatchet?
Tres Hermanas?
Pierce?
Animas?
Those mtns south of Lordsburg?

Anything rocky enough for Ibex to be comfortable?

The southern Peloncillos would let them leak into Mexico, so that would be a no go.

 

[dang302]

Can't put em on something with Bighorns. Can't allow that kind of competition for the bighorns, they have trouble surviving on their own!

Oryx, Ibex and Barbary sheep were the best thing to happen to this state in my opinion, but I don't think anyone would okay the release of some foreign, invasive species nowadays.

I think this hunt makes it clear that G&F will do whatever it takes to prevent them from spreading elsewhere.

 

[jamaro]

Way back in the day to population goal was 300 animals... I think it is estimated at over 600...
J

 

[NMboltripper]

....I heard 600 tags sold, 1st day!!!

dang, it's gonna be a circus!

 

[BuckBuster]

It will be crazy for sure. Lots of Ibex will get shot that can never be recovered because of their location on the mountain. I think a whole lot more Ibex are gonna get killed than G&F wants.

 

[Trad Bow 1979]

Perhaps I am naive, but are there any other mountain ranges that are suitable habitat for them? Maybe some can be transplanted instead of killed off. I wish Game and Fish would look at this forum and see the satisfaction level of this states sportsmen.

 

[WapitiBob]

I don't know the particulars in NM, but up here you can't transplant jack diddly because of all the environmental crap they have to go thru now. ODFW ended up sticking Mt. Goats on the reservation because they could bypass all that crap and the years and years it would take, and knew many of the Goats would move out onto the NF land anyway. The Tribe was more than happy to join up with them and get some Goats too.

 

[muley_crazy85]

So I have a question. If 600 people hit the mountain on opening day will the ibex just take all the hunting pressure or will they move out of their comfort zone and leave the rock for a few days?

 

[Trad Bow 1979]

I have never seen an ibex or been in the Florida's. Can anyone tell me how much meat you can get out of a F-IM? I enjoy hunting elk because they are so enjoyable just to see. Are Ibex a rewarding animal to see or is it like watching antelope? I am only asking because I have a Barbary sheep hunt that month too, I am wondering if I should eat the barbary tag to pursue a female ibex on what will be an over crowded hunt, or should I stick to my barbary hunt?

 

[aaronjo2324]

I bought a license last night and realized that the game and fish isnt dumb AFTER buying the license. The vast majority of people buying the license are gonna be screwed and not even have a chance to harvest one because the quota will be filled (i think the 125 will be reached after the third day, if not sooner)

Think about it, 600 (low estimate) people buy a $100 license, that is $60,000 in their pocket and at MAXIMUM 125 people will be able to harvest an ibex (it will be a lot lower though since you can shoot 2).

As opposed to 125 person draw at $100 which gives them $12,500.

$60,000 and screw people over > $12,500 and give people a fair shot.

I know its likely that i'll be screwed outta my $100 if i dont get one the first or second day, but the game and fish will have a nice paycheck from all of us buying them and not even having the chance the harvest one since the quota will fill up fast.

Oh well, i'll pay a $100 for even the opportunity to hunt a female ibex for one or two days that otherwise i would have no reasonable chance to ever hunt for a billy.

 

[hunt1]

They are around 30-60 lbs and look like a whole other species when standing next to their male counterparts. Don't expect to find a 14.9 inch billy.

>I have never seen an ibex
>or been in the Florida's.
>Can anyone tell me how
>much meat you can get
>out of a F-IM?
>I enjoy hunting elk because
>they are so enjoyable just
>to see. Are Ibex a
>rewarding animal to see or
>is it like watching antelope?
>I am only asking because
>I have a Barbary sheep
>hunt that month too, I
>am wondering if I should
>eat the barbary tag to
>pursue a female ibex on
>what will be an over
>crowded hunt, or should I
>stick to my barbary hunt?
>

 

[nmelktrout]

Sounds like fun, but I'm betting this is going to be a complete gong show.

Might be more even more fun (and a bit more safe) if F&G would have put some foresight into conducting a management hunt.

Guys are going to be up high shooting at ibex while the guys down low are shooting at them.
-Cody

http://themeateater.com/
www.streamflies.com

 

[NMPaul]

Glad we are busy, otherwise I would join in this goat rope.

Have fun guys.

 

[smarba]

Because harvest doesn't have to be reported for 5-days, I continue to believe that it is entirely possbile that 400-500 animals are killed before the 5th day after the hunt begins...

And concur that G&F is going to make a lot more $ on this than by holding a special hunt with a hundred applicants.

Just hope nobody gets hurt up there.

 

[WapitiBob]

Are there 500 people that will climb that rock?

 

[dang302]

There are that many that apply for a bow tag every year!

 

[smarba]

Plus I'm sure plenty of guys who think they can shoot 1000-yards from the bottom up just because they saw it on latest episode of Western Extreme Long-Range Hunter TV...

Fiasco with a capital "F"

 

[passthrough]

Heard from a friend of a friend that tag sales are approaching the 2,000 mark! I was considering trying my luck, but now I am questioning my thinking. Thats a lot of bullets whizzing around that rock pile, from people doing anything in their power to connect on 2 ibex. I dont think I can wear enough orange... The eagles will eat good...

 

[Agar426]

2,000 licenses - $222k in pocket for NMDGF, assuming only residents. 5 day requirement to report to NMDGF, with 2,000 rifles throwing lead? I think 125 harvested could happen before half the people make it up the mountain! Not that I'm claiming it's easy hunting, but with that many people in a relatively small area, the Ibex will have nowhere to run.

Never been there before, but was planning on heading down with my buddy BK, but now I'm wondering if it's a good idea or not.

 

[jamaro]

I don't know where you guys are getting your numbers from but I just called 700 licenses sold or 1400 tags...

It is still going to be a mess...

J-

 

[Agar426]

>I don't know where you guys
>are getting your numbers from
>but I just called 700
>licenses sold or 1400 tags...
>
>
>It is still going to be
>a mess...
>
>J-



Touche' - My apologies, I read tags, but assumed licenses. Still, as you said though, it's still going to be crazy!

 

[coryb]

Has anyone on here bought a license yet? If so, what were you told about how often you have to call the hotline to find out if the quota has been met? Also, have you been told how long you have to report that you killed an ibex.

The new rule book DOES NOT say that you have five days to report your kill. It says that you have five days to submit the heads as proof in order to be entered into the billy tag incentive draw.

I think that you should be required to call every morning and report all kills from the previous day before hunting that day. I personally think that way more than the quota will be shot on opening morning, many of which will not be recovered. I have done the bow hunt up there the last 2 years and we have found it extremely easy to get to under 200 yards from ibex. With a rifle, we could have killed on dozens of occasions EVERY day that we hunted over the two seasons. However, many of those occasions were for ibex with no or little chance of recovery. If you only counted shot opportunities at ibex under 200 yards in locations that were definitely recoverable, I think our hunts would probably have averaged to about 8-10 opportunities per day at herds of 5-50 animals.

The bottom line to me is this: If you are in good enough shape to get up the mountain just one time, I think that you should be able to kill two nannies at less than 200 yards on "easily" recoverable ground in half a day. That said, I think 300-500 will be shot on opening morning. HOPEFULLY people will be safe and no one will be injured, as even a couple hundred guys up there with rifles is A LOT.

 

[azdogman]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-13 AT 03:47PM (MST)[p]It clearly states you have 5 days to report your harvest. with over 700 licenses sold and it's only been a week. There could easily be 1000 guys on the mnt and the 125 quota is gonna be a joke. Hope no one gets shot. I asked today how people know if the quota is met yet. They didn't seem to have a plan yet. They said they would let the hunters know???? Gonna be interesting.

 

[jamaro]

So the good thing is that they wanted 125 killed this year and NEXT year... So if they go over then then can cut the number of animals to be killed next year...

 

[EVILNR]

Year after year, the circus continues.

 

[coryb]

This is all it says:

IBX-1-521 is a Harvest Limit Hunt. Hunters are required to telephone the NMDGF Information Center: 1-866-248-6866 prior to hunting in order to determine if the harvest limit has been met. The hunt will close when 125 female ibex have been harvested or Mar. 31, whichever occurs first. The bag limit for the hunt is two F?IM ibex. Hunters who have successfully harvested two F?IM ibex during the IBX-1-521 hunt and who have presented their ibex heads within five days of harvest to an NMDGF office or official for confirmation will be eligible to enter a drawing for one either-sex ibex. ES Ibex Drawing information will be provided when the hunter presents two heads for confirmation.



What that means is that if you would like to be eligible for the incentive tag then you need to present two heads no more than five days after they are harvested to be in this drawing. Everyone who kills an ibex on this hunt is not required to submit there heads in the five day period. This paragraph says nothing about how long you have to report your harvest. It does, however, answer your question as to how hunters will know if the quota is filled. Read your rule book and let me know if I am wrong.

Cory

 

[5yearcoueshunter]

I think they are getting a lot more participation than anticipated. My hope is that they will have a lot of wardens down there so they can confirm kills and close the season before the population is decimated.

Travis

 

[5yearcoueshunter]

Thanks Cory. Still think they need to clean this up somehow. Doesn't specify if you need to call to report your harvest or how often you need to call to check the kill quota.

Travis

 

[coryb]

I did a little more checking and the press release says all hunters must verify there kills within five days. It does not tell an amount of time to report. Also, the quote I posted above is from the new rules, which technically don't take affect until after this hunt is over, so I'm not sure it is relevant to this upcoming hunt. Does anyone know the answer to the questions I asked in my first post?

Also, I checked back in the commission minutes and in August they said the population estimate was over 900 animals and the goal is to reduce that number to 400. My hunting partner has spoken to one of the commissioners about this hunt and he said the population will be reevaluated before the nanny hunt in 2014, and the hunt will be decided as a go or no-go at that time.

I hope this hunt is safe and effective, but I have concerns about it. I am worried what such a drastic change in the nanny-billy ratio might do. Also, I hope the loss of this many nannies doesn't skyrocket kid mortality this winter or plummet recruitment next year. I guess time will tell.

Cory

 

[jamaro]

Another thing to consider.. How many IM sheep are going to be killed IE... How much baby billies and how will this impact the quantity a mature billies in the future..
J