Idaho ATV Laws

B

brymoore

Active Member
Messages
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The Idaho F&G is asking for help from outdoorsman. The legislature has a bill presented, S1016, that will prohibit IDF&G from regulating ATV use. IDF&G is asking for letters/comments to be sent to your representatives and senators.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=5750

Idaho's Sportsmen's Connection (ISCAC) has set up a reply form on their website.

http://www.idahosportsmensconnection.com/takeaction/actionalert_feb32011.php

Let your representatives know what you think!
 
Thanks for posting this brymoore. Very important issue. The lazy ATV hunters are trying to get the law overturned that F&G can regulate ATV use during hunting season. God forbid anyone has to walk to hunt.

I don't see why you couldn't post this in the main mule deer forum and others, lots of hunters out there come to Idaho and will be affected by this law.




The Christian
 
Well last year I bought a tag in unit 77. My group camped about 5 miles from where we hunted. I was not aware of the new law. So we asked lots of questions and found out that we were not to drive on the trails we used to drive on. I hunt in some pretty rugged country so we have to walk and pack out our kills anyway. I am not as young as I used to be. I have a "never say die attitude". I have to agree that the intent of this new law will have dramatic positive results in improving not only deer numbers but deer quality. I am a firm believer we all need to make sacrifices even if it means not being able to hunt all of your favorite honey holes due to lack of access. Even though I had to hunt a little harder, I still support this law. The harder the work the sweeter the taste.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 12:17?PM (MST)

well i have contacted my legislators SUPPORTING THE BILLS ! the fish and game shouldn't be in cahoots with the feds on this in my opinion. yes some dillweeds make atv riders look bad without question. i ride mine on logging roads and designated trails only ! i ran into two idiots at idaho city last year. they were staking out abend in a logging road that was OPEN for atv use. they tried to start in with me about riding in on there stand .i quickly told them they were idiots for expecting a " wilderness " experiance hunting on logging roads open for motorized travel. i hike too just not to the ridge i am hunting. i drive to it on roads and trails that are designated for use. so sick of this "well if you can't walk stay home b.s." there are plenty of opertunity for a " wilderness " outing. but if you are hunting on or near roads dont bit*ch ! not everone is in awesome health. dirtbike riders do 90% more damage than atv riders. if you are gunning a atv more times than not you will be underneath it with a blown out knee or worse. i refuse to even be civil regarding this. it is my RIGHT not privilage to ride on designated trails and roads. if the fish and game wants to lower success to help herds keep the stick flippers out of the elk rut ( not archers) stick flippers that don't practice. if no one can use atv's fine then make darn sure that EVERYBODY is on the same playing field. no horses, no 4 wheel drive pick-ups behind closed gates no bicycles, and everyone has to pack out all four quarters of the animals not 30 pounds of meat and the horns. too many get away with this. my 2 cents. and please SUPPORT THESE BILLS. the f&g has no place in this !

and p.s. i am a sportsmen......and i know i am not the only person on this site that rides an atv. i am not ashamed.
 
Beavis, thank you for posting. Your post adds credibility to those who want to support IDF&G. The forest around Idaho City is Boise National Forest. Unless you were traveling on a forest service road, you were illegally riding your ATV off road. The trails in that area of off limits from October 1st until June 1st.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 04:30PM (MST)[p]i respectfuly dissagree. there are tons of trails marked for off road travel. the most i ride are closed in the middle of november and closed thru the summer but open in the fall. i am sure there are plenty of closed roads and trails but don't make a blanket statement that they are all closed because they aren't. and there are several trails that are for 50" wide and less.
 
What trail number were you on? I live up there so you're not going to BS me. The trails are closed by October 1st.
 
I'm going out a a limb here and guessing that the supporter of the bill to stop IDFG is overweight, out of shape, and a road hunter.....
 
Sent my messages to the legislators opposing the bill. Keep trail riders out of the forest where guys with a little ambition are trying to have a decent hunt.
 
This is about as a double edge sword that one can come across. I back pack hunt as much as I can in the Rapid River area and try to stay off the open roads any where else.I disagree with the bill opening up areas to ATV's during hunting season. That being said,we are losing areas open to atv's and trucks/cars everyday (look at the Payette National Forest travel plan) These roads and trails were not built for sportsman. They were constructed for timber harvest and fire control. The Forest Service no longer serves us as beneficial agency. They would love to see all the roads and trails grown over by brush and washed out. If we continue to let these Governmental agencies close road after road and area after area we are going to end up not having any access at all. I don't know about anyone else but I am sick of acess being taken away from me.Idaho has the biggest wilderness area in the lower 48 WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE.If a person is not able to hike for health reasons (not obesity)they should be able to get the keys to a gated road.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 07:36PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 07:28?PM (MST)

Beavis what is the number of the unit you were hunting in? I will let you know if you were in violation of the new Motor Vehicle Restrictions. Remember what I said, to hunt big game in a MVR hunt area, deemed by Idaho Fish and Game, you may not ride on any atv trails that a full sized vehicle (GVRW)1500 lbs can not drive on. In other words, if the trail is only wide enough to allow an atv on it you are not allowed on it with your atv PERIOD. The only exceptions are, setting up camp or game retreival. It has nothing to do with the 50" wide or less rule. If they stop you, you better not have a rifle with you. I do not beleive this applies to private land only public land.
 
They did an abysmally poor job of implementing the off road vehicle rule several years ago. I called for clarification and got a different answer every time I called. I've got no problem with reasonable restrictions, but to prohibit trail use to hunters when a non-hunter can run atv's or motorcyles all day long is just wrong.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 07:01AM (MST)[p]i should have clarified better. i am not talking about 3 foot wide dirt bike trails. which people ride on 12 months out of the year. i am talking about old logging roads that are gated for most of the year. there is a big azz sign hanging on the gates that has the dates for use. if bry lives up there you must not get out much dude. i am talking primarily deer creek , elk creek, wolf creek, and many more towards centerville. there is a tidlewave of support for these bills. and when they pass i will lmao at all you elitests! i guess i am the only one here that rides an atv. or more likely the only one with balls enough to post thats fine. i guess every tom , ##### and harry you see with a atv has it just for looks. i am going to be on the lookout this year for you backcountry boys. if i don't see the evidence of sex attached to your game, a pack with 30 pounds of meat in it and a rack i am taking liscence numbers and going to the fish and game. the f&g makes me mad they have banker hours now at the check station. way to much illegal stuff is going on out there and guys come down off the hill at 10 p.m. and get away with it. believe it or not i do get off my atv! i found two elk at arowwrock about an hour climb that had at least half the meat left on the hill. i saw a dead doe with the backstraps cut out and left to rot. i gave f & g all the info. they never came up with anything. and the unit 39 " restrictions " are for the muzzy hunt. you guys calling me an idiot should crack open a regulation pamphlet . and with that gentelmen i wish you all a good weekend. sportsmen will never see eye to eye on most things but thats o.k.
 
The reason the law was started in the first place was to improve hunting and reduce "user conflict". They said it would protect big game and allow a better hunting experience. That being said how has the deer and elk hunting been in the last 5 to 8 years? Maybe someone should tell the F&G that Wolves don't ride 4 wheelers.
I have heard that if this rule is overturned that the dept will have to reduce tags and opportunity. Haven't we heard that before? That is the same thing they said about inline muzzle loaders, compound bows.
Here is a thought. How about the F&G manage the game animals. If a unit can afford 50 bucks to be killed put out 50 tags, not 200. They sell more tags because they "hope" people won't fill the tags. When people DO fill the tags then they try to reduce harvest by limiting technology. That is where we start to see "traditional" muzzle loader hunts, and Traditional bow hunts. We also see time frames moved, length of seasons changed and yes off road rules. Tag numbers are only reduced after all the "rules" have failed.
The F&G says that hunters don't like ATV's and Motorcycles in their hunt. The problem is NON hunters are not affected by this rule. You can still be up hunting and have a motorcycle pop a wheelie through your hunting spot if there is a trail there.
The Feds and envirowhacko's would love to see us bring more and more restrictions on our selfs. We defeat hunting from within our own ranks.
I used to say I NEVER want to see an ATV while I was hunting, I didn't have one and I didn't need one plus it cut down competition. I used to say Restrict all muzzle loaders to Traditional only! I had a traditional muzzle loader so that rule didn't affect me it cut competition and gave me a better chance. I was being selfish.
Last note. This rule didn't really keep ATV riders from entering an area for hunting. If the trails are open to NON hunting ATV's and Motorcycles a guy could ride in to the area in the dark. The season is closed every day after the sun goes down. If a guy uses the trail in the dark he is not hunting. I acquired a document back in 2004 that spells it out very well. This rule has never been a solid rule and the F&G knew it back then. It even warns CO's to be careful when writing tickets.
The fact is these "rules" will never bring back the great deer and elk hunting we once had. The F&G has been trying to manage technology for years. It is about time that the game is managed.
Ron
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 08:36AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 08:35?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 08:34?AM (MST)

Beavis, you ride a trail and have two guys tell you its illegal. A local tells you the same but you continue to make up your own dates. There are no open gates in the Idaho City area during deer and elk season.

You can follow the link below to a map of the gated roads in the Idaho City area. None are open until November.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQoY6BdkOyoCAPkATlA!/?ss=110402&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003853&navid=091000000000000&pnavid=null&position=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&ttype=main&pname=Boise%20National%20Forest-%20Home

You were riding your ATV illegally. I wonder why ATV riders have such a bad reputation?

Fat, dumb and lazy is no way to go through life, Beavis.
 
I don't ride these but I knew there were some, so I simply looked them up on the map...
The east side, 300,317,321,325,332 are trails open to Vehicles 50" or less in width from 04/11-12/31 and there are more.
 
Well said Ron!


Where did you find the doc u referred to? I"ve never seen it and I asked several times. I remember asking specifically about riding before sunrise. Never got a straight answer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 11:01AM (MST)[p]+1 ron yes my main beef isn't " driving roads" making it easy to get around .it is the f& g has no right to address the atv use that is the state and fed. government. and you are 100 % the f&g uses
" technology" to make up for lack of game management. oh they want to SELL TAGS but don't want the average joe to get a shot off. hey if they made atv's illegal i would hike from my truck like i have many, many times before i bought an atv. i can ride all day for about 3.00 $ worth of gas. like i said before i will give it up but everyone better be on the same playing field.......

and bry you need to spend less time looking on the internet and more time in the hills. there are tons of open roads up there everyone in idaho city primaraly road hunts in there trucks . trucks that are by definition on the SIGNS are not allowed on the roads i ride but i don't whine....

as i said before i am a fellow sportsmen. i DO NOT ride on trails or roads that are public domain illegally. as well i understand peoples frustration with atv riders. one season at landmark i had a herd of elk in the canyon below me it was dark but they were bugling carrying on ect. two putzes rode in cross country and scared them off. and yes they were reported and fined. there are bad apples definitly. but not every rider is. the continuing comment is made " fat , lazy atv riders blah blah. well how bout the guys that hike four hours and kill a animal and bring out 30 pounds of meat and the horns. this isn't lazy ? at least road hunters bring out the entire animal. " boning them " is b.s. ! i know the new law states that you now can leave neck meat now i think this sucks. there is many pounds of burger on a bull elks neck. if all you guys bring out all four quarters and hike in five hours i will give you my full respect.

and bry yes i may be fat and sometimes lazy but definitely not as dumb as someone that lives in the area i hunt in but has no clue what they are talking about and cant read signs. if you bring your high moral standards to the bars up there the locals will have you for lunch.
 
You still haven't given us a trail number, Beavis. I don't see anything around Deer, Elk or Wolf creek open in November. Were you road hunting a forest service road?
 
It is not likely you ever will get one from the department.
When the rule first came out I was the one that blew the whistle about private land. I contacted my local Representative and told him that the way it was written the first time was going to get farmers in trouble. I told him that if a hunter came out to a farm and asked to hunt at the bottom of the field and the farmer said yes then all was good if he walked. If the farmer gave him a ride in the tractor to the bottom of the field "off road" they both broke the law. When I talked to my state Representative at the time he at first didn't want to talk about it. When I told him that story his ears perked up. He was the one that got the ball rolling on changing it for private land.
Again the fact is hunting season is not open 24-7 for 10 days or 15 days or even 30 days. The season closes every day when it is dark. If a hunter goes into an area in the dark and leaves in the dark he can ride because he is not hunting. They can not write a ticket for hunting because the season is closed. It would be poaching not hunting.
Here is what the document says about night driving.

2. Traveling at night- ?Can I use my motorized vehicle on a trail before or after shooting hours?? It will not be considered ?hunting? if you are traveling outside of shooting hours, with a cased or unavailable weapon

In my opinion this rule is one of the worst that was ever forced down our throats. Tons of guys jumped on board thinking WOW areas without ATV and motorcycle competition will have more game. What we have learned over the last several years is this rule has done NOTHING for wildlife. Populations are still dropping and there is no one left to point a finger at. WELL that might not be true. How long before LONG range centerfire rifles? How long before they are looked at? Big calibers and HUGE scopes are allowing guys to shoot 1000 yards or even more. These kind of guns will be the next on the list of rules to make things "fair". A guy with one of these rifles will be the next one with a target on his back. What about Range Finders? What about GPS?
On the same track. Pistols can now be used in a short range hunt. A 44-40 is not a legal pistol, but a 25 Auto is. I say good riddance to the off road rule, and hello game management.
 
Ron,

First of all, good for you for contacting your rep. Wish I had done so. I did call Nampa, Boise, and Salmon offices and asked, "if its illegal to hunt at night, how can I be in violation of the ATV law?" I got two "no you can't"s and an "I don't know".

IMHO, the commission wrote a subjective, poorly defined, and unenforceable law. They displayed neither the intelligence to effectively deal with the problem nor the balls to define the law. Rather, the left it to the department to sort it out. I have no sympathy for them (and I'm usually the first one to defend them).

Shame, maybe they will do it right this time.
 
>well how bout the guys
>that hike four hours and
>kill a animal and bring
>out 30 pounds of meat
>and the horns. this isn't
>lazy ?

No, that is a violation of the wanton waste law and has nothing to do with how you choose to get to your hunting area.

>at least road
>hunters bring out the entire
>animal. " boning them "
>is b.s. !

That's the silliest statement in this post. I bone out most of my animals. Boning animals does not mean wasting meat, it simply means not transporting the bones, or some of the bones, from the kill site.


Also, I do not agree with the new meat laws either, and I for one will continue at a level that exceeds the current law because it is the right and ethical way to use the resource.
 
Well stated, Greatbasin. My experiences with road hunters bringing out "all the meat" is that they generally make a road into their kill that they shot near a public road, so they can load the animal whole. I often see this done with the aid of an atv or two. Hence, another way to break a law so they can save themselves a few steps. I am always amazed when I see a guy driving around in archery season with an entire elk, legs and all, in the back of his pick-up!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 07:39AM (MST)[p]Beavis and Greatbasin this is for you



Motorized Vehicle Rules: for the 2010 hunting season

Hunt area 39 is on the list. You may not take your atv where a fullsize pickup can not make it. So ATV trails designated by the USFS 50" or less and BML are closed no matter what any other signs may say. This law was new in 2010.

The Idaho Fish & Game Commission adopted rules
regulating the use of motorized vehicles by hunters
in some hunting units. The rules are in response
to concerns expressed by many sportsmen and
supported by more than 80 percent of the public in
recent public surveys.* Many hunters are concerned
about conflicts between hunter user groups and the
potential vulnerability of game and meeting biological
objectives.
* Survey: Wildlife Values and Beliefs of Idaho Residents-2004, Idaho Citizens Survey-2002.
The rules read: IDAPA 13.01.08.411
01. Use Restriction
?In designated areas and hunts, hunters may only use
motorized vehicles on established roadways which are
open to motorized traffic and capable of being traveled
by full-sized automobiles. Any other use by hunters is
prohibited. All off-road use by hunters is prohibited.?
02. Exceptions
This use restriction shall not apply to the following
permissible motorized vehicle uses:
a. Holders of a valid Disabled Persons Motor Vehicle
Permit may use a motorized vehicle as allowed by
the landowner or manager.
b. Hunters may use a motorized vehicle to retrieve
downed game if such travel is allowed by the
landowner or manager.
c. Hunters may use a motorized vehicle to pack
camping equipment in or out if such travel is
allowed by the landowner or manager; however,
hunters shall not hunt while packing camping
equipment.
d. Private landowners, their authorized agents and
persons with written landowner permission may
use a motorized vehicle on their private land;
however, they may not hunt from or by the use of
any motorized vehicle as prohibited by Idaho Code
Section 36-1101(b)(1).
IDAPA Rule 13.01.08.411 affirms that motorized
vehicles are an aid to hunting and prohibits any use of
motorized vehicles by hunters in designated areas and
hunts, unless the road is open to full-sized vehicles, or
the hunter falls under one of the four exceptions to the
rule.
The use of a motor vehicle by a hunter is
allowed only if the hunter can answer yes to
any of the questions below.
1. Am I the holder of a valid Disabled Persons
Motor Vehicle Permit on a road or trail where
travel is allowed by the landowner or manager?
2. Am I retrieving downed game on a road or trail
where travel is allowed by the landowner or
manager?
3. Am I packing camping equipment in or out on
a road or trail where travel is allowed by the
landowner or manager?
4. Am I on private land with written permission
from the landowner or manager?
For more information, visit the
Fish and Game website at
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov.
To report violations please call
Citizens Against Poaching
1-800-632-5999
Idaho Fish and Game adheres to all applicable state and federal laws and regulations
related to discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, age, gender,
disability or veteran?s status. If you feel you have been discriminated against in
any program, activity, or facility of Idaho Fish and Game, or if you desire further
information, please write to: Idaho Department of Fish and Game, P.O. Box 25, Boise,
ID 83707 or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Division of Federal Assistance, Mailstop:
MBSP-4020, 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Arlington, VA 22203, Telephone: (703) 358-2156.
This publication will be made available in alternative formats upon request. Please
contact the Department of Fish and Game for assistance.
Costs associated with this publication are available from
Idaho Fish and Game in



Hunt Units With Motor
Vehicle Restrictions

August 2010 to December 31, 2010


Units: 29, 30, 30A, 32, 32A, 36A, 37,
37A, 39, 45, 47, 49, 50, 51, 52, 52A, 53,
56, 58, 59, 59A, 66, 66A, 69, 70, 72, 73,
75, 76, 77, 78.



IDAHOIDAHOFISH&GAMEFISH&GAME
Remember...tread lightly!
IDAHOIDAHOFISH&GAMEFISH&GAME
Question: Do these rules ban all use of motorized vehicles during hunting season?
Answer: No. The rules apply only to the off-road use of motorized vehicles by hunters. Other outdoor recreational activities (camping, sight-seeing, berry-picking, etc.) are not affected.

Question: As a hunter, can I use any motorized vehicle on USFS, or BLM designated trails in Big Game Units covered by the motorized vehicle rule?
Answer: Only if the use is permissible in the exceptions to the motorized vehicles rule, since trails are not open to use by full-sized vehicles.

Question: Do the new rules apply to all hunting statewide?
Answer: No. Only certain hunting units are affected, and they are listed in the hunting rules.

Question: Where can I find out which are established roads open to use by full-sized vehicles and which are trails on national forest land?
Answer: A copy of the USFS Motor Vehicle Use Map for the area you are hunting will list road, trail and other use restrictions by the USFS. This map should be used in conjunction with the current hunting rules. If you have any questions about the status of a road or trail, please call the USFS or Idaho Fish and Game.

Question: What can I do to stay out of trouble or to avoid conflicts with other hunters?
Answer: When in doubt, stay on the road. Know the vehicle use restrictions for the area you are hunting, have applicable USFS Motor Vehicle Use Maps and review the tips on the Idaho Fish and Game website at http//fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/hunt/atv/.
Here are answers to some of the most commonly asked questions about the rules.

Question: Why did Idaho Fish and Game adopt rules limiting the use of motorized vehicles by hunters?
Answer: The rules are in response to many hunters, who, over the past 10 years, requested that something be done about the increase in off-road travel during hunting season. The Fish and Game Commission has the authority to regulate use of motor vehicles by hunters as an aid to hunting just as with other aids (i.e., bait, gear, restrictions, dogs, etc.). Landowners, including the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, Idaho Department of Lands, and private landowners, regulate vehicle use on their property.

Question: The rules affirm that the use of a ?motorized vehicle? is an aid to hunting and restricts travel to ?established roadways.? What does that mean?
Answer: Using a motorized vehicle to travel off established roads and trails to transport hunters to and from hunting spots is considered an ?aid to hunting.? The rules do not affect travel on established roads capable of travel by full-sized vehicles. If in doubt, stay on the road.

Question: What is an ?established roadway??
Answer: An established roadway was ?established, built, maintained, approved or designated? by a landowner or agency for use by full-sized vehicles.

Question: What is considered a motorized vehicle?
Answer: Idaho statute defines a motor vehicle as any vehicle ?propelled by electricity or a fuel-burning motor. This includes pickup trucks, Jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles or other similar vehicles.
 
I agree with the laws. Idaho has some great hunting, but most people will not get off the roads far enough to find it. Those of us that do, smile and keep our lips shut. It incredible how much game one can see just by getting .5 or 1 mile away from a road. There are some people with disabilties that need an exception. A area that I hunt in is by roads,, I can sit up on a ridge and watch lots of ATVS and trucks go driving by all day long, while I turn my head the other direction to a basin that has no roads in it. There is usually 50-60 deer that stage here waiting for more snow to move down, while the road hunters can't see them. Even if I shoot a animal within .5 miles of a road, I still bone it out,,, I butcher my own meat,,, so why in world do I want to keep the damn bones. I keep all the neck meat(makes great burger), rib meat and everthing else. I got checked two years ago by a F&G warden close to the Frank Church. I had boned out my bull and was coming out with the last load and the antlers. He checked all my meat and was amazed that I had pack out all the hocks and neck meat. He told me that it was nice to see guys were still doing it the old fasion way. I know I keep posting this, but there is plenty of game and you don't need an ATV to find.
 
as i have said so many times it's like beating a dead frickin horse. READ THE DARNED SIGNS ON THE GATES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I do believe the law clearly favors the 20 year olds over the 60 year olds, but clearly something needs to be done.

I support the restriction, but until we have a more reasonable level of enforcement we won't get reasonable compliance. There has never been one day in Unit 32 where I haven't seen MANY hunters who won't leave their quads, but have never seen a citation written.

Does anyone really know who is sponoring the bill to repeal this and what their reasons are?
 
go to the boise atv riders home page. there is a box on the right for more data. the senator is tim corder from mountain home
 
Yep, it looks like unit 39 has restrictions from Sep 8 - 30 or at least that's what the IDF&G site says.
Like I said earlier I don't rely on these roads or trails. I'm just going on the info that is presented buy the different agencys. So take it for what it's worth.
 
I called and so did several of my partners when the rule was first imposed. You can haul gear in and out. You can retrieve game. All on designated trails. end of story. I don't own a four wheeler but use a bike in this way frequently. Usually to get to a jumping off (climbing up) point, then i see no bikes, no trails, no people for days at a time. Anyone who has a beef with that is an uptight jack-ass. Any one who uses a four wheeler or a bike off trail or in restricted areas should not be doing so.

If we are going to start flat out prohibiting bikes, four wheelers, etc. Make sure we get horses and pack animals prohibited too. They do as much or more damage than anything else.







the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
The fish and game doesn't even enforce the atv laws anyway. I rode my horse past 9 atvs and 3 motorbikes on the elk hunt in unit 66 this year. They had beat the horse trail to death. On my way out there was a check station and I told the guy there that he could write all kinds of tickets if he would go sit at the trail head. He told me that the law is relatively new so they would only give warnings anyway. What good is the law if it isn't enforced!
 
I gotta chuckle at whoever the dude is thats bitching about boneing out game. Stick to the trails and roads chief. You're never gonna make it in the real world.............






the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
>I agree with the laws.
>Idaho has some great hunting,
>but most people will not
>get off the roads far
>enough to find it. Those
>of us that do, smile
>and keep our lips shut.
>It incredible how much game
>one can see just by
>getting .5 or 1 mile
>away from a road.
>There are some people with
>disabilties that need an exception.
> A area that I
>hunt in is by roads,,
>I can sit up on
>a ridge and watch lots
>of ATVS and trucks go
>driving by all day long,
>while I turn my head
>the other direction to a
>basin that has no roads
>in it. There is
>usually 50-60 deer that stage
>here waiting for more snow
>to move down, while the
>road hunters can't see them.
> Even if I shoot
>a animal within .5 miles
>of a road, I still
>bone it out,,, I butcher
>my own meat,,, so why
>in world do I want
>to keep the damn bones.
> I keep all the
>neck meat(makes great burger), rib
>meat and everthing else.
>I got checked two years
>ago by a F&G warden
>close to the Frank Church.
> I had boned out
>my bull and was coming
>out with the last load
>and the antlers. He
>checked all my meat and
>was amazed that I had
>pack out all the hocks
>and neck meat. He
>told me that it was
>nice to see guys were
>still doing it the old
>fasion way. I know
>I keep posting this, but
>there is plenty of game
>and you don't need an
>ATV to find.


Truth..................



the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
Its un-believable how many people bring up how horses and pack animals tear up the trails. How can you possibly bring yourself to believe that. Pack animals have been used in the backcountry for hundreds of years and basically paved the way for people out west. Hell for that matter half of the "good," motorcycle trails started out as a pack trail. So apparently we shouldnt allow elk and deer to use the trails either because they tear em up as well. From now on dont bring up that argument it makes you seem uneducated. If I cant take my dirt bike up there then he shouldnt be able to take his stock up there......totally different ball game.
 
wonder how many invasive weeds have been introduced by the harmless horses and pack animals............

They do damage Chief. Hate to break it to ya.




the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
>Its un-believable how many people bring
>up how horses and pack
>animals tear up the trails.
>How can you possibly bring
>yourself to believe that. Pack
>animals have been used in
>the backcountry for hundreds of
>years and basically paved the
>way for people out west.
>Hell for that matter half
>of the "good," motorcycle trails
>started out as a pack
>trail. So apparently we shouldnt
>allow elk and deer to
>use the trails either because
>they tear em up as
>well. From now on dont
>bring up that argument it
>makes you seem uneducated. If
>I cant take my dirt
>bike up there then he
>shouldnt be able to take
>his stock up there......totally different
>ball game.


Here are some pretty educated folks who seem to think horses and such do a fair amount of damage..........

http://www.americantrails.org/resources/ManageMaintain/WKeenImpacts.html


the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 11:25PM (MST)[p] Comon guys use some common sense. I can google "horse impacts on our trails" and come up with the same thing. For that matter you can google anything and find some dumbass somewhere with an opinion. I never said they leave no trace, they do, but that article seemed to compare hikers to horses which obviosuly have a bigger impact. 9/10 of the stuff you see in the backcountry or in your favorite hunting spot was probably brought there via horseback. Guides use the same trails they have used for generations to get there clients to there favorite hunting grounds. How many times have you seen an old cabin or an old mining claim way in somewhere and thought wow thats cool, or I wonder how they got that way in here. Well heres your sign.
Noxious weeds, are you kidding me please come up with another argument against horses in the hills than that. Again we have had horses in the hills for hundreds of years and noxious weeds havent been a problem. That whole noxious weeds thing is another government ploy to take a few bucks. I am all about protecting the wilderness always have been and I am in compliance every time I go to the hills but its ridiculous. How about every time you take a motorcycle or atv in the hills you have to change out the skid plate with a government certified "clean one" bet you might think the same way. I take 4 head of stock in for a week I have to buy 8 to 10 bales of government certified hay for 10 bucks a bale. Again not saying they "leave no trace" because no doubt they do, but lets not even try to compare the impacts of an atv or motorcycle to that of any horse.
 
Wow, noxious weeds are a "government ploy to make a few bucks". That one wins the award for dumbest thing posted on this thread...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 06:33AM (MST)[p]ohhhh my ! maybe we can all get along ala rodney king. possibly the f & g can buy old schoolbuses and drop us off and pick us up ! very lively debate. maybe this summer i will sell my atv's and buy a paraglider, that way i can get too all the landlocked blm land and get away from everybody ! lol. hope everone has a good week !
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 10:42AM (MST)[p]Wow, I suppose you support every law that government passes? Maybe your right not necessarily a ploy to make money but just another thing they got there fingers into. Every time I turn around there a new law passed to protect a "northwest purpleheaded tulip,"or something along those lines. Why do you think there are so many guides selling businesses. Ya wolves dont help, but imagine feeding certified hay to 20 head of stock for 2 or 3 months? Your overhead is un-believable. A 3 dollar bale of hay is now 10. Your overhead is going up and your client list is going down. Not good for buisness.

IDdesertman- You wouldnt think it was so dumb if you had to come up with the jingle.......always easy when you not forking out for the bill. Im sure you dont have horses due to the statement but like said before how about having to pay to get your atv or motorcycle checked for some invasive weed eVERYTIME you took it to the hills. Its not that far fetched they are already doing it with boats. Your next.......
 
I believe if we could get ATV riders to respect and obey restrictions to given trails/roads and not go everywhere their bikes can get, then the experience would be better for all. This is especially true for 2-wheeled bikers in 39, as those damn 2-stroke bikes run everything off. Game simply does not run away from horses the way it does bikes. I understand how those who don't use horses will complain, but their impact is not the same and if you want to bad horses you might want to eradicate the 700lb elk and 1000lb moose for the sake of the environment also. Yes we can improve the quality of the hunting by limiting tags more, but the PUBLIC keeps saying it wants to maintain "opportunity" so hence the other restrictions like shorter seasons and travel restrictions. At least fish and game is trying to find a compromise.

So I support the law, but again argue for a focus on enforcement and would promote an additional sticker for offroad use to help pay for the enforcement. If you don't use the bikes then you don't have to pay, if you do then pony up!
 
Ya, its on off-road sticker. Boaters have to pay for a yearly sticker and an invasive species sticker. Its now rolled into one "convenient" package for $10-12 more per year. When introduced you had to have 2, yes 2 stickers a registration sticker equivalent to an "off-road fee," plus an additional invasive species sticker.
 
In the last 20 years, I can't really think of a year in which I didn't have problems with motorcycles and atvs being in places they shouldn't. Last year was the first year I decided to not bother with buying any tags (although I put in for a permit hunt). So I did not hunt Idaho last year at all. Ha, well I guess I lied, last year was a year in the last 20 that I didn't have problems with atv's.

I would be all for a plan that made it so there were game retrieval hours on main trails. I am familiar with Montana and this seems to work well over there. Of course they can confiscate your atv in Montana, if you are in the wrong. In Idaho you could get a $100.00 fine. Well worth the risk in Idaho in my opinion ( I'd pay a 100.00 bucks anytime for ride or haul of game out of a hell-hole ). So, it's hardly worth the time for F&G to enforce anything as it is. In Payette Nat'l forest I know they do not enforce road restrictions, they told me once over the phone that they just didn't have the man power, and expect people to use the "honor system". Honor system? What the H is that? Whatever it is, it isn't being employed.

I guess what needs to happen is you just open Everything to atv use for a year or two and see what happens. All those closed roads that had a couple atvs on in years before, now will have DOZENS of users on them at any given time. You will pretty much have to have an ATV to hunt. The only winner will be the ATV dealers. In the end y'all can fight it out on what little "side" canyon or ravine you want to hunt by getting there first. I'll spend my time and money in another state with more stringent atv enforcement, not looking over my shoulder to see who's riding up the trail, glassing undisturbed game.

Incidently, In my home area, IDFG is pretty good about trying to catch people who take atv's on closed roads. If you call them they will come out pretty much anytime if you know the enforcement officer's phone number. They usually leave their business cards in the window of any parked vehicles, so getting a hold of them isn't too difficult (If you can get cell service). They actually recognize the problems and are pretty willing to try and make a difference. It would be a shame to take that away.
 
Deepforks, eight pounds? Really? Even mine I kinda have a big head although I have been questioned on its contents the size is big so would mine weigh eight pounds or is that an average?

Bill
 
Maybe I'm not reading it all right, but it seems to me like the legislation is trying to level the playing field and either close the road to everybody or leave it open to everybody?

I've seen deer just hunker down when they hear a Dirt bike or ATV coming. It seems like they get nervous when the ATV/Dirt bike stops. Most recreational riders just go right past the game, but the hunters that are on these vehicles spot a lot more often(or should be).

I appreciate F&G trying to keep things open and still work with everybody, but its obvious that the more little rules that get added the more people break them and the more conflicts you run into in the field. I'd say level the field and either close the trail to everybody or close it to everybody. Then the violator is either breaking the rules or not. Its a question of is the trail open, not if they have a gun, or if its before shooting/hunting hours, or if they have game down.
 
208JBB,
I agree. Its to confusing. It should either be closed 100% regardless of what your doing, hunting, sight seeing, or just riding or it should be open. Just because your "hunting" then its closed, but If I was berry pickin it would be open?????
 
You got it. That is why I am wanting to see this law removed. F&G needs to manage game not technology. What good is it to keep hunters out when EVERYONE in the world can ride there? Ron
 
I just checked the bill,http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2011/S1016.htm when do they plan on voting on it?

When I was reading some of the earlier post it made me think of my first time hunting the late archery hunt in 39. I went up to blacks creek following the advice of a coworker and he said drive through the green gate and hike to the places the animals will get pushed to. So I went up well before light and drove through a bunch of snow making fresh tracks thinking it was going to be awesome. When I got to the top I saw some flash light coming up from the other side, so I walked over the opposite side and started glassing. About 30 mins later I have two very very pissed hunters threatening to flatten my tires and give my engine a "tune up". I was the new guy and alone, so I got out of there in a hurry. About half way down the mountain I starting running into other vehicles. The first truck I came to I told him about what happened and he was not willing to be ran off the mountain, so he went storming up there and there was a heck of a yelling fight that could be heard all the way down were I had decided to stop and watch from. I don't think it got physical, but I never saw any of them again. Guess I was in the write, but not willing to fight about it. The guys hiking just didn't know there was a road on top and were pissed that they just hiked 4 hours to see a truck. Now that I'm much older I would have advised them to read the signs and do some scouting....
 
yes i know where you are talking about. some guys hike up from lucky peak or arowwrock all depending on which fork you took. how do i know this ? because a buddy and i years ago put our bass boat in arrowrock to hunt the high up secret spots no one goes..... we hiked five hours and came to a road . one with a pick-up in it ! we didn't whine like the idiots you incountered. we chalked it up to not knowing the area as well as we thought and bought a few maps. didn't even see a buck two does. but did catch a couple trout trolling back to the truck !
 
since this law was enacted,i have not seen one person worried about breaking it ,no enforcement no worries.
 
How do you enforce a law that only applies to select few. i.e people participating in a lawful sport like hunting. But, if that same person wasnt hunting and just "joy riding" they would be ok and not breaking the law, theyd be just ridin on a trial. Sounds crazy to me and just another way of Idaho trying to minimize there poor managment style.

They refuse to cut tags and go to a limited type drawing. (either a point system or not, either way)They want Idaho to be an "opportunity" type state, where they sell a crap load of general tags (unlimited resident)for minimal to no trophy quality hunt and where you can kill super low age class bucks. Rather than adress the problem and VERY POOR managment pratices, which Idaho has done for years they come up with rediculous law that reduces access.

I agree that the ATV's are kinda out of hand, but like most things in life some people do things different. If some want to cruz on an ATV all day then rock on! I just wont hunt there, but Ill know that the area has open trail systems. But make the trails closed to everyone and everyting motorized or make them open!!

Just my two cents And Ive hunted Idaho for 15 plus years, using both methonds, foot and ATV.
 
"They refuse to cut tags and go to a limited type drawing. (either a point system or not, either way)They want Idaho to be an "opportunity" type state"



Thank God for that.


the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
>So I support the law, but
>again argue for a focus
>on enforcement and would promote
>an additional sticker for offroad
>use to help pay for
>the enforcement. If you
>don't use the bikes then
>you don't have to pay,
>if you do then pony
>up!


Of course I know there is an off road sticker, that is something everyone needs. I'm talking about the right to hunt with one. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but just something to help pay for the enforcement.

We keep arguing ourselves in the same circle. You want them to manage the game herds by limiting "opportunity". Then you ##### because you never draw a tag. Hell, the fish and game's stance on opportunity v. trophy hunting is based on the surverys that say the average hunter wants opportunity. So again, you say the majority that want's opportunity should be subordinated to the minority that wants to shoot 30" bucks.
 
Im not against limiting ATV's or keeping Idaho an "opportunity" state. I kinda like the fact that Idaho is an opportunity type state and I have the option to get a general tag every year if when Im unsuccessful in others. I guess my opinion is that the ATV law is misguided and unfair. They want their cake and to eat it too. I think that ATV's have signifigantly increased access in area's that in the past hadnt had the access,possiablly causing issues. But to only inforce the restriction to those who are hunting is crazy. Again, the trails are either open to all on motorized vehicels to EVERYONE or closed to EVERYONE, we cant seperate what your doing, hunting, sight seeing, joy riding, berry picking ect. to determine if your illegally operating a motor vehicel on a trail.
 
Oh ya one last thing I forgot to mention, Idaho's managment pratices do suck though. Idaho has awesome genetics, but is poorly mis managed. What heppened to the "Mule Deer iniative" kinda seems to have lost the wind in its sail. All talk and no results, kinda seems to be the theam song for all government agengies lately.
 
We interupt your atv trail riding to appease the hunting crowd. Yeah that probably wouldn't go over very well. Like it or not folks we as hunters are the minority. I could or would not ever stand for closing the trails down to non hunting users during hunting season.If you don't want to hunt where there are motorized vehicles, let me re-iterate that we have the largest chunk of wilderness in the lower 48.We are already losing so much access as it is, we need every partner to keep the forest open. The greenie's thrive on divide and conquer. Isolate the(very lucrative) atv industry from the hunting industry and we both lose.
 
>We interupt your atv trail riding
>to appease the hunting crowd.
>Yeah that probably wouldn't go
>over very well. Like it
>or not folks we as
>hunters are the minority. I
>could or would not ever
>stand for closing the trails
>down to non hunting users
>during hunting season.If you don't
>want to hunt where there
>are motorized vehicles, let me
>re-iterate that we have the
>largest chunk of wilderness in
>the lower 48.We are already
>losing so much
>access as it is, we
>need every partner to keep
>the forest open. The greenie's
>thrive on divide and conquer.
>Isolate the(very lucrative) atv industry
>from the hunting industry and
>we both lose.



Truth.........
Fact is The ATV crowd is pretty simple to avoid if you're so inclined.



the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
Haven't read the proposed law but from what I have seen in Idaho. Fish and Game regulation change will not stop what is going on in Idaho.

If it isn't Fish and Game regulating and stoping ATV's from traveling certain areas. They just get U.S.F.S to close the entire area to ATV and all motorized travel. I think there are to many people crying about ATV use and forgetting about all the distruction allowing those back country dirt bike races. Ever been on the Highland trail between Hwy 36, power lines, snow cabin around, dry basin, green basin. If the goal for hunters that don't like ATV's is what stur's this stuff up and that is what this is all about... that is one thing. BUT if negetive ATV people want to use the excuse that ATV's are causing sooo much damage and distruction to habiat. You should take a look at the practice races and after math distruction of trails, habitat, errosion from one of these dirt bike races that is Permitted as an event and allowed to happen by the USFS. More distruction of trails and habitat in one day by these dirt bikes climbing hills than 1000 ATV's in ten years on the same ground. Yeh Idaho has bigger problems...


)))).......>
 

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