I'm hunting wolves!!

You keep those positive thoughts and while yer at it, go out tonight and do an incantation to get the lawsuit thrown out that will likely be filed by the wolf nutz sometime in the next 30 days. In the meantime, can we have a drum roll please. We'd like to take a moment for the clowns at SFW to stand up, pat themselves on the back and try to take as much credit as possible for the State of Wyoming getting to this point! Here, here...
 
Season starts Oct 1.
http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1000933.aspx

1 of the biggest threats to our big-game herds is out of the way until the first lawsuit tues morn. I propose we shoot, trap, poison and whatever else you want with the second biggest threat to our hunting lifestyle in Wyoming. Let's send SFW/BGF and the vermin they associate with back to their holes in Utah for trying to de-rail all of this. I can't wait for their first press release trying to take credit for the whole delisting...........
 
http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_06dfaee8-5c17-5779-aadf-c072ecab3618.html

The claim of less than 300 total wolves in Wyoming may be the biggest fraud ever perpetuated by the federal government in Wyoming. The eco-elites will rattle their sabres. The question is if they file, where will they file? And, if they file which Federal District Judge will be sympathetic to their plight? Those are the key questions that will determine the outcome of any lawsuit that is filed. Only time will tell.
 
The article says that there are 270 outside of Yellowstone and was not a quote of a number given by the Feds, but rather by the writer. I doubt that the numbers are that low and the true numbers will be brought out in any court lawsuit that is filed next month. Any lawsuit should have to go through the Federal District Court in Cheyenne where Judges Johnson and Fruedenhal reside.
 
I don't care who bandwagons and takes credit for this hunting wolves opportunity.

I certainly hope we can hunt wolves in Wyo before/if it gets shutdown.

Robb
 
Topgun,

Thanks for the clarification. The USFWS has been trying to sell the under 300 number for many years. The number would suggest that the population of wolves in Wyoming (inside or outside YNP) has remained static for a very long time. They have also tried the same thing with grizzly bear numbers. Anyone who lives and recreates in the NW Wyoming backcountry knows that both population figures are a fraud. Hiking overnight last weekend (between the N. Fork Shoshone and Dead Indian Creek drainages), I saw a too much wolf crap up high. In the last couple of weeks, they pulled 3 grizzly bears out of an area just minutes from my home. Keeping an accurate and independent count of both species is the key to delisting both initially and permanently.

By the way, did you know that a Federal District Judge on senior status could be assigned to hear a lawsuit involving wolf delisting in Wyoming? Yes, the assignments are usually within the same circuit but not always. Anyone you know have that status? Do you think the eco-elites know that? It could be the key to the next round in this game.

just sayin
 
The USFWS is not selling the under 300 population, its likely close to what there is population wise outside Yellowstone.

Are some going to be missed? Very likely. Is it grossly over or underestimating the population?

Nope.

All the carrying on by the tinfoil hat crowd about the feds low balling estimates are a joke. I would be more inclined to believe the numbers were being fudged if the population esimates were below the required numbers to keep them listed. Thats just not the case...and more importantly the population goals required for delisting include the population in the Park.

Which means there are well over 300 wolves in Wyoming. Beings how there only has to be 300 wolves between 3 states to trigger delisting, I'd say the black helicopters arent even off the helipad.

Bottom line is all the leading grizzly and wolf biologists are putting both species population estimates well past recovery goals. Thats a fact.

The only thing that will keep WY wolf hunts from happening now is the courts interpretation of the wolf management plan that has been adopted. Thats the problem, not the population estimates...another FACT.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-01-12 AT 11:11AM (MST)[p]"By the way, did you know that a Federal District Judge on senior status could be assigned to hear a lawsuit involving wolf delisting in Wyoming? Yes, the assignments are usually within the same circuit but not always. Anyone you know have that status? Do you think the eco-elites know that? It could be the key to the next round in this game.
just sayin"


***Geez, I wonder what that guy's name might be, LOL! You're correct in that you never know, but let's hope any lawsuit goes to either of the Judges I mentioned. I think either of them will rule in our favor and not issue an injunction. Now the huggers appear to be wanting wolves all over the entire state and that's their new cry of foul. That won't hack it as the delisting meets the criteria of keeping the numbers up on the west side of the state in the agreed upon areas besides Yellowstone and the Tetons. It's really a shame that any of these bunches can go to court and use politics to try to get rulings in their favor. Let's hope that whatever Judge gets the lawsuit that they will rule for science based management, rather than listening to these nutcase that just want to cry wolf!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-01-12 AT 11:15AM (MST)[p]Topgun,

Get it through your head, the population goals needed for delisting include the Tetons and Yellowstone. You constantly make statements regarding the management plan, EIS, and population goals that are total bullchit.

Read the fuggin' FEIS...do yourself and your "arguments" a favor.
 
Did read today in the paper that the anti's intend to file. However they have to wait 60 days after the approval before they can file. Meaning folks will be hunting them in Oct. The article said if a judge were to grant an injunction, it wouldn't be until Nov before they could stop it for whatever reason might be accepted. As someone who will be doing a high country deer hunt on the western edge of the state during the first part of Oct, I'll definitely be throwing a tag in my pocket. On a side note, a buddy of mine is a pilot and is also licensed by the State to shoot predators from his plane. He said when he renewed his license recently, there was a line on it for wolves so he checked the box. He said it was approved. With wolves being classified as predators outside the trophy zone, supposedly he'll be able to shoot them from his plane. I've been invited later this winter to bring my snow machine and be a retriever. Could be a hoot...
 
I will be right on the edge of the 60 days gig when I am up on my mid-November 'Kill Whitey' hunt around Powell.

If I am reading the boundaries correctly, I will be right on the edge of a Quota Wolf unit....

I will buy a license when I arrive if the quota hasn't been reach.

T-BB--that reads like a fun trip!!

Robb
 
Please Deer,
You should be in the Predator Zone for wolves. There have been wolf sightings for the last few years in the Willwood, Heart Mountain, Chapman Bench and Sand Coulee areas around Ralston and Powell.

Triple B,
Good information to know. There should be a large window to hunt the wolf in Wyoming during the 2012 season.

BuzzH,
Anything spewed by you needs to be tempered by a few facts. He is a an employee of the USFS. He eats and breathes all things federal and all things Democrat. He secretly roots for the Wyoming delisting to fail in the courts because it will prove that he has been right all along. He wants every state to bow down to the federal government. He will likely be hunting this year for at least 8 to 9 weeks, with pay, courtesy of the tax payers of the United States. The only question at his office in Wyoming during his absence is who will be passing the maps out while BuzzH is on his hunts?

The population figures for both the grizzly bear and the wolf have been skewed by the USFWS in Wyoming for years. They have kept them static for years. You would think that these animals don't reproduce. If you want the straight information on numbers, ask some of the redshirts in the Park County area.

Like BuzzH, the USFWS must lie and misinform to justify their existence. They call those persons who challenge them crazy. For anyone who might actually believe BuzzH ask him how much time he has spent in the Park County, Wyoming backcountry in the last 5 years. I am out in this backcountry weekly. I live in Clark, Wyoming. I see grizzly bears walking the desert and have seen wolves within minutes of my desert home. They pulled three grizzly bears (sow and cub and a single sow)out of a local area just weeks ago. They were eating apples and scaring tourists at a sportsman's access. This was minutes from my house. That doesn't even reflect the bear problems at the local dump or the Tolman Ranch in Clark. A couple weeks ago, I watched a grizzly bear chasing Angus cattle on the side of the Chief Joseph Highway just past the Bald Ridge Road. I hiked from Pat O'Hara to Trout Peak last weekend and spent a night out. Wolf sign was everywhere above 9,000 ft. The bear sign was much lower. The week before, I had hiked to Dead Indian Meadows, which revealed much more grizzly sign at lower elevations.

I have personally viewed very large wolf packs on Elk Fork, Eagle Creek, Upper Sunlight Creek and Papoose Creek. I have viewed smaller groups and singles in virtually every drainage in the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone and the North Fork of the Shoshone. BuzzH bases his bullchit on government statistics, press releases, population estimates and through his own rose colored view of the federal government. I haven't run into a single USFS or USFWS employee out of a vehicle in the last ten years of hiking this country. However, I do run into red shirts out in the brush.

I will purchase a tag for wolf hunting in Wyoming. I have a few special spots that might produce a wolf. I would especially like to take a mature wolf with a black pelt. If I have him tanned, I will call him BuzzH.

just sayin

mh
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-12 AT 10:14AM (MST)[p]Mr BuzzH!!! Do yourself a F***ing favor and learn a little reading comprehension before you spout off, as I haven't said anything that is different than what you just stated! I DID NOT say that the plan and resultant delisting did not include the Tetons and Yellowstone area wolf numbers. The plan includes them where they will not be hunted and other adjacent areas, including the flex zone during certain time periods designated in the agreement. What was mentioned was that the article said there are 270 wolves outside the two parks and that was the number given by the author of the article and may not be accurate, since nothing was mentioned to substantiate that number. MH misread and thought the article was saying that there were 270 wolves in the entire state and, thus, my comment to him. That is ALL that was stated in my posts, so get off your fuggin high horse! We all know you're the fuggin USFS expert on this whole matter because you've told us that more times than we can count without getting out a calculator!!! I'm sure the bean counters of the grizzly and wolf populations are right on the money with their estimates, LOL! Yea, right! When I talk to guys like MH that live right in the areas where these critters are and there are more in single drainages they frequently hike and hunt in than what the bureaucrats say there are in an entire county, it's time to call BS on the "estimates"!!!
 
Mightyhunter,

Even though its your modus operandi to distort, lie, and slander...I'll respond this once. At the end, I'll ask a few questions that you will avoid, as per always.


Anything spewed by you needs to be tempered by a few facts. He is a an employee of the USFS. He eats and breathes all things federal and all things Democrat.

You get one out of 3 right in that first statement. I do work for the USFS, although I never have, nor will I ever represent the USFS in any capacity in regard to the Wolf Recovery or any other wildlife related issue. I've made that fact known many, many times. I do make my own opinions known however, which, I'm afforded the absolute right to do.

I'm a registered Independent in the State of Wyoming, no affiliation with either D's or R's...I'm much too smart for partisan politics.



He secretly roots for the Wyoming delisting to fail in the courts because it will prove that he has been right all along.

Nope, not true. I've written wayyy more letter to wayyy more federal and state agencies regarding the wolf issue than you ever will. From my initial comments prior to the DEIS, through the debacle that is the Wyoming wolf management plan. I'd rather be hunting wolves than having to explain to you the facts.

He wants every state to bow down to the federal government.

Nope, not true again. I'm all about each State having their own management plans as long as they meet the requirements that they agreed to in the FEIS. Some states met those requirements, one didnt. Even though Wyoming failed in epic proportions and has kept wolves on the list much longer than they needed to be, I still support their right to come up with any plan they want. That includes those plans that have failed to pass the scrutiny of the courts, and will likely lead to further litigation in the future. If Wyoming feels the need to draft a management plan they want to continue to fight for the next decade in court...so be it.

He will likely be hunting this year for at least 8 to 9 weeks, with pay, courtesy of the tax payers of the United States.

I dont know that to be true either. I work an 8 on 6 off schedule, plus have over 400 hours of leave. Between my days off and just use or lose leave, it may be more than that. Beings how I have 2 WY elk tags, one in the best elk area in Wyoming, (think I'll buy a second antlerless permit), 4 WY pronghorn tags, a great LQ WY deer tag, general elk and deer in Montana, a great AZ late Bull Elk tag, and an Arizona Desert Sheep tag...I'm about certain that will be more than 8 weeks of hunting. My Dad also drew a nice WY moose permit this year, plus I have 2 good friends from Arizona with nice antelope tags as well. Its just about a given I'll be over 8-9 weeks of hunting, as per normal. Oh, and almost forgot my Wife has an antelope tag in a unit she's drawn twice previously that resulted in B&C bucks each time, as well as an elk tag in the best unit in Wyoming. Yep, theres no doubt it will be more than 8 weeks, so you're wrong again.

BuzzH bases his bullchit on government statistics, press releases, population estimates and through his own rose colored view of the federal government.

Wrong again Toots. I use the best available science rather that whats shared by a bunch of drunks at the local gin mill in Clark. I've no problem dropping Chris Servheen, Ed Bangs, etc. etc. etc. an email or phone call to get some facts. Something you may want to consider.

I haven't run into a single USFS or USFWS employee out of a vehicle in the last ten years of hiking this country.

Sounds like you need to get out more. I'd invite you on an average hitch with me, but I dont need to drag an anchor, I've work to do. I guess you could try to carry my jock.

Now on to the questions.

I'd like for you to provide a single peer-reviewed piece of literature that support your claim that the USFWS is intentionally misleading the public via lowering the population estimates for either wolves or grizzly bears.

Further, Why would the USFWS have population estimates that are miles past the numbers needed to trigger delisting? If their intent is to low ball the estimates to keep them listed...they're not doing a very good job of it. Your black helicopter and tinfoil hat theory dont make sense.

I think another fair question to ask is if the population estimates are so low...why are MT and ID having such a hard time filling wolf quotas? Even with both states lengthing seasons, allowing trapping/snaring, increasing bag limits and the like...they still havent met the harvest quotas. Its intuitively obvious that if the wolf populations were significantly higher than whats claimed, the quotas would fill.

It will also be interesting to see how fast that Wyoming wolf quotas fill this fall...and who does the filling. My guess is your tag will remain unfilled...bound for a picture frame in your "man cave".

Take care Toots, and good luck this fall...you'll need it.
 
WapitiBob, thank you, I'm excited about this season.

I've had some great hunts with my Dad and Brother...this one may be tough to top. A DIY hunt with just the three of us, Montana sheep, net all time record book ram...and an even better experience. My Dad applied for a lot of years for that tag.

IMG_0763.JPG


I donated my AZ bull elk tag to Hunt of a Lifetime...and to tell you the truth, its a good feeling knowing that a young hunter will get to experience AZ elk hunting.

With all the good luck I've had, it was just flat time to give a little something back.
 
Sounds like AZ really likes you Buzz, LOL! One tag after another and that is really cool about giving a kid that elk tag---kudos my man! Have a great season, especially on those sheep and moose hunts as they should be terrific!!!
 
Thanks mh for the heads-up.

Good on you buzz.

Mike-you gonna jump a little more west when you are out here and maybe spend a day or two seeing if ya can use that fancy rifle from your dad on a wolf?

Robb
 
Buzz H,

Toots here. I do love the back and forth. Unfortunately, all the bluster and bombast doesn't change the fact of your bias in favor of all things federal. If I was in the trough like you, I might feel the same way. I have enjoyed reading all your posts over the last year blasting SFW and BGF for trying to undermine the Simpson-Tester wolf rider. You have done the exact same thing as you rooted against the dual wolf status (predator and trophy zone)sought by the State of Wyoming. If nothing, you are a hypocrite. Sometimes I think guys like you are worse than the wolf hippies and the groups they support.

Whether you believe it or not, I spend a lot of time out in the backcountry on foot. On my recent overnight hike to Trout Peak I had one observation that might not sit well with the pickup truck crowd working for the USFS. I think it supports my observation about them not getting out of the truck. Every trail sign at the trailheads and at the cross trails (Morning Creek, Dead Indian Creek, Iron Creek, Trout Creek, Trout Peak etc.) were down, weather destroyed, unreadable, broken, rotted off or just plain gone. It is the same story on the Green Mountain trail system and many others. They haven't been touched in years.I have seen one new trail sign (Lower Jim Creek crossover to Four Bears)in the last 5 years. That says it all about the USFS and the time they spend in the backcountry. I know, it is a funding issue. They need to expend precious resources giving you and the others 8 to 9 weeks of paid vacation a year.

Just to clear the issue up for you, the only gin mill in Clark is the Edelweiss. I don't drink (sober for 38 years)and purchase only an occasional Pepsi in the joint on my way home from a hike. My info doesn't come from the bar stool crowd.

If you really want to see what kind of misinformation that Chris Servheen has shoveled over the years for the USFWS,look no further than his initial press releases on the death of the elderly man who was killed by a grizzly bear on Kitty Creek in 2010. That is the case now pending before Judge Freudenthal that the federal government will likely lose. You could contact the Park County Sheriff, G&F, or Carole Cloudwalker at the Cody Enterprise if you wanted to confirm how Mr. Servheen outright lied about this incident in an attempt to protect the USFWS and the grizzly bear program. He pulled the same misinformation campaign when the gentleman from Michigan was gobbled by a grizzly bear out of Cooke City the same year. That guy has no credibility except in your world.

I have a few positive things to send in your direction. Your last post was sent out on your time for a change and not during the hours you should be working. Despite our differences, my Shoshone National Forest travel map is about worn out. Can you get me a deal on another?

Is there some reason why you feel the need to post a grinning hunter photo with you in virtually every post you make. Do you think it gives you credibility on every issue?

Even though I have little use for you and your opinions, good luck on your sheep hunt.

just sayin...

mh n.k.a toots to BuzzH
 
Robb---Nope, but there may still be some over in our area as we saw a big track last September. The Government trapper took 3 out by airplane of what was supposed to be a pack of 8 a couple years ago. They had come from way above Yellowstone and killed a bunch of sheep next to where we hunt. The big alpha male he shot had a collar that was put on him up in Montana. Since I'm in the freebie predator zone, if there are any still around that show themselves there will be lead a flyin, LOL!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-12 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]Mighty Hunter,

Congratulations on keeping your Modus Operandi...slander, libel, distortions, lies, etc.. You never fail to deliver, which I've come to realize, is pretty common for over-the-hill burn outs of your caliber. The entitlement, know-it-all generation never fails to deliver, and in spades.

Its also nice to see that you've once again avoided answering any questions, or providing a single shred of evidence to support your wild claims regarding wolves, grizzly bears, and associated populations of same. The tinfoil hat is securely snugged down though, as per usual. Is it common for attorneys to not bring evidence to support their position...or is it more a reflection of your "work" and "knowledge"?

Thank you for clearing up that your "info" comes from your a$$ rather than the bar...makes perfect sense. Probably also why providing that "info" is so difficult for you.

As to your trail sign woes, I can provide a list of licensed outfitters that will be happy to show you the way in the grizzly, wolf infested areas that obviously scare you. Your lack of reading "sign" is laughable (pun there).

To ease your mind...I'll not provide another great hunting photo on this thread, even though seem appropriate on a hunting site...but will provide a few "office" pics. Lots more where these come from.

168.JPG


guardstation.JPG


cold%20meadows3.JPG


IMG_2972.JPG


IMG_4882.JPG


IMG_2965.JPG


IMG_4876.JPG


cottonwood%20peak.JPG
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-12 AT 08:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-12 AT 08:48?PM (MST)

Buzz H,

Which is it Buzzy "over the hill burnout" or "toots"? All taken in Park County in 2012. Just a pair of Hanwags and no ponies or planes.
TroutPeak.jpg

018.jpg



mh
 
Sure would be nice if Buzzard would start trying to help hunters... He must build up a lot of hate handing out maps and counting shrubs!

I agree Buzz would like to see Wyoming's plan fail... Let hope he is wrong again!!!
 
Looks like somebody forgot the landing gear switch... Buzz was probably doing to much talking and showing the pilot all of his "D!CK measuring" hunting pictures.
 
Marburg,

I dont know what the deal was for sure with that airplane. My work partner and I work the AZ strip every year and ran across it on our way back to St. George. It wasnt there on the way out. Heard through the grapevine some electrical problems...didnt beat up the plane too bad, all things considered.

Saw this plane take a rough landing in the Frank Church on the Mahoney airstrip. While working on the top of little loon, noticed on landing a pretty good cloud of dust. Heard later that the prop hit the dirt and banged it pretty good...but no injuries.

207.JPG


It pays to fly backcountry with experienced pilots...I only fly with Middle Fork Air into the Frank.

203.JPG


On my Alaska sheep hunt I flew with Dan Montgomery...I'd fly/hunt with him anytime. A great cub pilot for sure.

danscub.JPG
 
Hey Buzz,

Did you tell/share with Dan your wildlife elitist views on Wolves, Grizzly's and Elk feed grounds?? I bet not! Dan is a Wyoming boy he would have left your a$$ on the mountain. Dan is a great guy as well as a super pilot, so he would have been professional and tolerated you. You could learn a few things from him!
 
I bet the AAA bill on that one wasn't covered by membership. Its funny how many plane crashes you come across, hear about, read about just in the areas you have hunted in a lifetime. Makes you think twice before getting in one of those things and buzzing around the mountains. Nice pics.....
 
I'll put on my NOMEX underwear and jump in.

In the past, I have had my disagreements with BuzzH on wolves. (On a different website) In reality, I have more problems with the Endangered Species Act than BuzzH personally. (Allows for frivolous litigation IMHO) Yes I think he has an issue with Wyoming's approach (He has stated it several times) and yes MT and ID have already been hunting wolves. (On/off/on). As far as I know, he has supported wolf hunts in MT and ID. (Maybe because it fell in line with Feds. Not going to claim I know why. Don't know, don't care)

I support WYO's approach to wolf management. Is it possible it will be derailed in court? Again? Yup. I hope not. (Opponents are working hard to find any avenue possible) Litigants are working very hard to delay any wolf management in virtually any state.

One thing BuzzH has been spot on is the SFW/BGF issue. I don't visit here often enough to know if his detractors on this thread have a hard on for these organizations. (I know this site has it's fair share of KoolAid drinkers). Are you letting your hatred for BuzzH enabling you to take pot shots whenever possible? I have not seen anything from his detractors such as a scientific document supporting your view. (Anectdotal evidence). Take personal pot shots and your message loses any traction.

Do I agree with Buzz politically? No. Could I share a beer with him and talk hunting. (Maybe even share opinions on how to best hunt a wolf?) Yup.

Buzz is a big boy and maybe he will tell me to get off his side! Whenever you have an opportunity, buy a tag and squeeeeze.
 
http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_1541a4ae-f7a8-11e1-9b50-001a4bcf887a.html

Another article concerning the recent wolf delisting. This article suggests that the GYC may not be filing suit to stop the wolf hunt in Wyoming. The article states again that it is believed that only 230 wolves live outside YNP in Wyoming. The articles also states that only 30 wolves live in the predator zone.

On another note, ZBB, I don't hate BuzzH and don't feel that I have taken any unfair potshots at him. He recently has called me toots, a bar stool loser, a tinfoil hat wearer and a burnout. After doing this, he claims he has been slandered, libeled etc. The guy is a bully and has a very high opinion of himself. All his grinning hunter photos pasted all over this site are intended only to puff himself up. He is a federal employee and believes in the superiority of all things emanating from the federal government. That federal government gives him months of paid vacation and leave that is all paid for by us. He has rooted against the Wyoming Wolf Plan from the outset and has expressed contempt for ranchers in Wyoming. He states that when he wants information on the wolf and grizzly bear he emails Servheen or other officials from the USFWS. It is my contention that the agenda and motives of the USFWS may be inconsistent with the truth. I cited instances where Servheen has blatantly misrepresented the circumstances concerning two recent deaths (Kitty Creek, Cooke City) at the hands of grizzly bears. I doubt that BuzzH would research those lies because it might burst his BuzzH bubble.

If you think my knowledge is purely antecdotal that is your choice. My opinion is based on my observations while spending time hiking, hunting and otherwise recreating in the area around YNP in Park County, Wyoming. I always ask people like you what the odds are of a single person (me)seeing in excess of 40 wolves (outside YNP) in the last 4-5 years when only 230 or so wolves exist outside the park. I have been circled or followed by wolf packs in at least three different drainages that are many miles apart. I have watched wolf packs harass elk, deer and cattle in elk Units 50-56 and in 121. I have seen elk numbers plummet in elk Units 51,52, 55 and 56. I have not seen a single bull moose in Park County for the last 5 years. If you would rather believe a federal USFS employee who lives hundreds of miles from Park County, Wyoming who gets his information only from other federal employees, that is your call.

I have nothing to do with SFW, BGF or MDF. They have been rightfully beat up on this website for the self serving actions of much of their leadership. BuzzH has condemned the SWF and BGF for trying to block the Simpson-Tester Rider. I think BuzzH has been given a pass for the way he has rooted against the Wyoming Plan. I believe he wants it to fail because it is more important for him to be right.

just sayin.

mh
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 10:59PM (MST)[p]Mightyhunter,

You're full of crap.

If you would have followed along from the beginning, you'd know that my stance has been regarding wolves has not changed from day 1.

My initial comments on the DEIS were no different than my stance now. The most important item in my comments was that I wanted state control of wolves and numbers to remain high enough to keep them off the ESL.

Just that simple.

My view on wolves is the same as any other huntable species, sound management and licensed, legal hunting seasons.

Where you got your panties all in a twist is when Wyoming FAILED to come up with an accepted plan. There were a number of people on Randy N.'s site, me included that knew Wyoming's plan was going to cause major problems for MT and ID. We were proved correct, and I schooled you over on Randy's board and brought up topics from 4-5 years ago to prove it. I noticed when you started getting plastered with the facts over there...you tucked tail and ran back here. My stance on wolves and wolf management parallel Randy Newbergs stance...period.

Look, I didnt enjoy seeing Montana and Idaho taking it in the shorts because Wyoming politicians, along with the Farm Bureau, made the decision to play marlboro man over wolves.

It didnt make sense to me to fight the Feds on an agreement that all 3 states made with the Feds. In particular over something so trivial as a predator zone. It would have been much easier...and at least 5-7 years quicker...for Wyoming to adopt plans similar to Montana and Idaho. Once wolves were delisted and Wyoming had control, they could have VERY EASILY made the predator zone a 365 day season with no bag limit on wolves.

Before you say it couldnt have been done that way, you're wrong. Montana and Idaho have both increased quotas statewide, increased unit quotas, increased bag limits, lengthened seasons, allowed trapping, lowered NR fees, etc. with more liberal means of harvest on the table still. Montana and Idaho both have a lot of flexibility in regard to wolf management...and they're doing so, while Wyoming is still out in the weeds.

The reason they were allowed to do all this is because MT and ID both have accepted State plans. The reason why Wyoming is still in the $hit over wolves is pure bullchit politics brought to you by the Wyoming Farm Bureau...and thats a fact. Rather than concede a point they agreed to, its better to drag out delisting for 7-8 more years than was necessary. Wyoming sure showed "them" "something". Yeah, I agree, they gave the hunters and ungulate populations in Wyoming a good lesson in pi$$ing backwards...up a rope.

But, according to your twisted logic, Wyoming is doing things "right"...like ignoring the FEIS and their own agreements with the USFWS. Keeping wolves on the list for nearly a decade longer than necessary. Good thinking there.

Now, because of a few whining groups that have/had the Governors ear...myself and all other Wyoming hunters have been deprived of our opportunity to manage and hunt wolves. Not to mention the (supposed, even though you can now kill 3 elk a year in Wyoming) decline in elk, deer, and moose herds you pretend to care about.

You view the way Wyoming has handled the wolf issue as a "win"...

Congratulations?

We'll see how many wolves you bag this year...with all the tough talk it should be easy for a wolf-whisperer like you.

As to federal leave policies...take it up with your congressmen. Your whining gets old.

As to my hunting photos I post...hunting site...remember?

Found this buck last night and took some pics this morning...unlucky for him I have a tag for the unit he's living in.

IMG_0610.JPG


Hopefully in about a week you'll get to see another great grip-and-grin photo.
 
BuzzH,

I must vehemently disagree with you critique of Wyoming's Wolf Management Plan. Wyoming's plan never FAILED, the process FAILED Wyoming! The truth is, from the very beginning Wyoming's plan was accepted. 10 out of the 11 wolf experts approved Wyoming's plan and stated that wolf recovery would work if all three state plans were implemented.

I also disagree with you that had Wyoming capitulated to the demands of the USFWS that delisting would have occurred any faster than it has already. You can only assume that the extreme environmentalists would have accepted that wolves would be hunted. Their actions continue to demonstrate that they are determined to use wolves as a tool for their agenda and that they have no real concern for the species itself; otherwise, they would listen to their own experts (Doug Smith et al) and allow delisting to happen.

You also miss several key points about what Wyoming has accomplished and the precedence it has set for future delistings. Wyoming was right to fight to defend its right to manage the wildlife resources within its boundaries. The federal government is getting way too bold in their efforts to intimidate and bully states into submission. I can make the argument, just as you have made, that had Idaho & Montana stood firmly beside Wyoming and stated that it was within our rights to manage wolves any particular way, so long as our management did not jeopardize the recovery effort. Had all three states stood united, I contend that delisting would have happened much faster as well.

While it may have taken Wyoming a bit longer to get the plan we wanted in place for our citizens, I believe, in the long run, we will be much better off for several reasons; by maintaining predator designation sportsmen are not obligated to pay for losses attributed to wolves; as predators, wolves can be shot on sight as they are dispersing from the established recovery area and are no longer contributing to the genetic pool located within the recovery area; as predators, wolves will be controlled in the vast majority of Wyoming, where even the USFWS has realized they are not compatible with existing and established practices of Wyoming citizens. Wyoming is only responsible for maintaining the wolves in which they have statutory authority over.

You can already see Idaho & Montana seeking to move in a similar direction as Wyoming. I could go on much longer but it is too late and I have much to do with a banquet this weekend in Rock Springs.

Bottom line, I am proud that Wyoming is finally getting their chance to manage wolves and believe it was worth the fight to protect and defend states constitutional rights to manage their wildlife resources. Someone needs to push back against a federal government that seems to be expanding their reach at all levels.
 
Buzz H,

Good to see that nothing changes with you. In the BuzzH world, everyone is full of crap unless they agree with you. That about sums you up in a single sentence.I still enjoy the back and forth. You can post all the grip and grin photos you want. That is what gets you off. You want people on these and other sites to see you as something special in the hunting world. Unfortunately, it will take a lot more than a few grinning hunter photos for them to get past your personality,character and ego. I noticed that you didn't reply last night until after your boys at the DNC finished their business. Now, that is a true believer.

Smokestick,

I may not agree with everything you post. However, I agree with your last post on the Wyoming Wolf Plan. I know that you are heavily involved with SFW in Wyoming. I appreciate the fact that you are not afraid to express your opinion despite all the SFW bashing that takes place on this and other websites. I also appreciate the informational posts that you frequently bring to this site.

mh
 
Mightyhunter,

I also appreciate your comments as well abd one day would like to take a hike with you into some of the back country.

I even enjoy a lot of the discussions with BuzzH; however, we obviously will all disagree from time to time.

I guess I still believe in the SFW model. While it might not be perfect, I still see such a need for sportsmen to be engaged in all aspects of wildlife management. SFW takes on the tough issues and sometimes it will put us at odds. All I can say is, it will only be as good of an organization as we make it.

Being a political organization, it is only natural that the enemies of sportsmen will attack it; however, it is very frustrating when fellow sportsmen attack it. It is important that we all have better dialogue and attempt to work together. I am mature enough to know that there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

Through out past conversations, you have made me try harder to focus on the issue and less on the arguments and for that I thank you.
 
Smokestick,

I appreciate that you take the time to educate yourself about these issues rather than just post newpaper articles as "facts".

But, many of your points are baseless:

I must vehemently disagree with you critique of Wyoming's Wolf Management Plan. Wyoming's plan never FAILED, the process FAILED Wyoming! The truth is, from the very beginning Wyoming's plan was accepted. 10 out of the 11 wolf experts approved Wyoming's plan and stated that wolf recovery would work if all three state plans were implemented.

Wrong, Wyoming needed to have full support of all the wolf experts, period. That was very clear in the FEIS. Montana and Idaho both had approved plans while Wyoming didnt. Something you should consider is which, of the 3 states plans, was holding up delisting? Its also fair to note that Molloy ruled that biologically Montana and Idahos plans were sound and why the first hunts happened there and were unsuccessfully litigated by the wolf hippies.

I also disagree with you that had Wyoming capitulated to the demands of the USFWS that delisting would have occurred any faster than it has already.

How can you disagree when both Montana and Idaho have a 3 year head start on Wyoming with state control and delisting?

You can only assume that the extreme environmentalists would have accepted that wolves would be hunted. Their actions continue to demonstrate that they are determined to use wolves as a tool for their agenda and that they have no real concern for the species itself; otherwise, they would listen to their own experts (Doug Smith et al) and allow delisting to happen.

The wolf hippies havent even whimpered since the Simpson/Tester rider passed. They also lost their a$$ in Molloys court as well when Molloy ruled that both MT and ID's management plans were sound.

I can make the argument, just as you have made, that had Idaho & Montana stood firmly beside Wyoming and stated that it was within our rights to manage wolves any particular way, so long as our management did not jeopardize the recovery effort. Had all three states stood united, I contend that delisting would have happened much faster as well.

Once Wyoming went from a participant in a legal, binding agreement with MT, ID, and the Feds to an obstruction in the delisting process...Montana and Idaho largely had no choice but to cut ties. The hand writing was already on the wall what was indeed keeping wolves listed. I agree that WY had/has every right to come up with any plan they want if they are acting ALONE. Its a much different scenerio when their bullheadedness is negatively impacting another states right to manage their wildlife. Montana and Idaho adopting Simpson/Tester did no harm to Wyoming...and in fact, paved the way for the Great Lakes wolf management/hunts happening as well as Wyomings Plan. Its also fair to note that SFW/BGF with the help of Don Peay, Ryan Benson, and Harriet Hageman tried everything in their power to derail the Simpson/Tester plan. Not only that, but they also threw every conservation group under the bus that supported MT and ID in their right to manage wildlife. These facts are not opinion, these facts came from documents that Benson, Peay, and Hageman signed their name to. I can post them again to refresh your memory.

Its also a known fact that SFW/BGF were not even in existance when the wolf issue started. Its also a fact that SFW/BGF use the wolf issue to gain membership and push their agenda, exactly like the wolf hippies have done.

While it may have taken Wyoming a bit longer to get the plan we wanted in place for our citizens, I believe, in the long run, we will be much better off for several reasons; by maintaining predator designation sportsmen are not obligated to pay for losses attributed to wolves; as predators, wolves can be shot on sight as they are dispersing from the established recovery area and are no longer contributing to the genetic pool located within the recovery area; as predators, wolves will be controlled in the vast majority of Wyoming, where even the USFWS has realized they are not compatible with existing and established practices of Wyoming citizens. Wyoming is only responsible for maintaining the wolves in which they have statutory authority over.

Wolves could have been controlled much sooner in a "vast majority" of Wyoming by simply having a 365 day season with no bag limit...and 7-8 years sooner. Wonder how many ungulates would have been spared with State Control happening 7-8 years sooner?

Just sayin'...
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-12 AT 10:03AM (MST)[p]I'm pretty much in agreement with MH and Bob on the Wyoming wolf discussion and also with Bob and his assessment of the Federal Government with it's ever increasing attempts to gain more power over the states. It also gets old quickly when "you know who" wants to "school us" on the issue like nobody other than himself knows what has been happening since the 90s when wolves were introduced into the Rockies. He will never admit what Bob stated happened early on in the process and evidently will not admit to the initial delisting period when Wyoming passed the Federal delisting criteria because if he admits that happened he immediately loses his whole argument. I do have to say to MH that you get nowhere when you attack the job a guy has and his benefits though! Civil Service jobs are open to those who qualify and it's not like you couldn't have the same leave time and flex hours like he has that you keep cutting him down on. I worked for over 30 years for the MI taxpayers and had to put up with the same crap you are spouting at Buzz and it gets old when you're out there busting your azz and people keep putting you down. I finally got tired of it one day when some wise azz came up to me while I was hard at work and started harrassing me for having a good job and then sarcastically asked what he had to do to get a gravy job like mine. Without batting an eye, I simply looked up and said that he should go back to school and learn to read and write and then walked away while he stood there with a DUH on his face, LOL!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-12 AT 11:13AM (MST)[p]Topgun,

Really?

He will never admit what Bob stated happened early on in the process and evidently will not admit to the initial delisting period when Wyoming passed the Federal delisting criteria because if he admits that happened he immediately loses his whole argument.

If WY's plan passed the delisting criteria...why are they still officially listed in Wyoming then?

Why where wolves delisted in MT and ID...but not Wyoming?

This should be good...

It has nothing to do with losing any argument, its recognizing and accepting the facts of what has happened. Something most fail to do.
 
BuzzH,

Have you not heard, the USFWS has initiated delisting as of August 30 or 31. Wyoming will have management authority of wolves by the end of September, just in time for this years wolf season to begin on October 1, 2012.
 
Yep, I know...8 years too late though.

Have you not heard that ID and MT are actively hunting wolves right now?
 
The whole problem with Buzz is that he will not accept the fact that wolves were jammed down the throats of three states who did not want them by the Feds with the backing of the ecos. Then the Feds said we'll give you control over them, but WE will tell you how you are going to do it! Then when the plans were accepted and delisting occurred and there was a short time where wolves were hunted the Feds backed out of their acceptance of the Wyoming plan. Court proceedings have been ongoing ever since, mostly with Judge Malloy in the Montana District and then with the favorable ruling by Judge Johnson in Cheyenne that the Federal denial of the Wyoming plan was arbitrary and capricious. The Farm Bureau, right from the getgo when the introduction plan was brought forth, has fought it because they knew wolves would be into their constituents livestock sooner or later and there would be little that could be done about it other than to cry wolf and hope that Government agents would take care of the problem after the fact. Now maybe we can get the wolves back into the smaller areas where they should not be a problem for us to coexist with them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-12 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-12 AT 12:06?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-12 AT 11:50?AM (MST)

http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_23df8a20-7aa1-5c64-9cd9-820688c52557.html

Another interesting update. The article doesn't mention who the two groups are. Also, the notice was filed in Federal District Court in Washington D.C. Now there is a court with a vested interest in the outcome of wolf management in Wyoming.

One of the groups is WildEarth Guardians. This is a group that has been around since 2008. They are headquartered in New Mexico. They were involved the actions in Montana concerning delisting and later with their challenge to the Simpson-Tester Wolf rider. If you go to their website you can see they are soliciting contributions for the fight.

The other group is Earthjustice representing the Defenders of Wildlife, Center for Biological Diversity, Natural Resources Council and the Sierra Club.

I believe a 60 day Notice of Intent to file suit was submitted today.
 
mightyhunter,

It will be interesting to see if Judge Johnson can force the case into his jurisdiction as it will no doubt come down to his first ruling. Since this delisting only involves the 10th District, I believe he can obligate them to send the challenge to him. It seemed as though a similar thing happened with regards to the snowmobile use in Yellowstone.

The funny thing is that they will not be able to stop the Oct first wolf hunt; 60 days from now until approximately November 10th, wolves will be hunted.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-12 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]Bob---I think you are on target with that assessment. Let's just hope it goes that route and I think the antis are screwed if it does!!!
 
Heard say on the radio this morning that 800 licenses have already sold! That would be impressive, if true (you know the media), given that they went on sale last Saturday.
 
Now they're hitting your numbers. 834 as of the latest report. Looks like Park County is leading the way and appears to have almost doubled their number of tags sold since the last report. Be interesting to see if they can get 52 wolves with that many tags sold and rising...
 

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