I'm out!!

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
10,590
No Bess you don't need to brick me, not that kind of out.

I joined BHA because I spend a ridiculous amount of time on public land. I want it there for my kids and yours. I was intrigued by hunters who were "environmentalists" and gun owners. I looked past minor things because I've told I agreed with the mission.

I hard swallowed Patagonia, believing the enemy of my enemy is my friend.(I still do). Some of you "mildly" disagreed.

I have own thoughts on man made climate change, and carbon footprints. I DID NOT join a group to fight about either.

I have talked to HQ, talked to my chapter, talked to BHA members. I see no other explanation for supporting the "windmill" bill other than BHA picking their preferred energy source at the expense of public land.

So. Im out!

BHA, and it's members have a friend and ally on the fights they wage in defense of public lands. But I'm not interested in statements on climate.





"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
As I've said a Million Times Hoss!

It's all about a few at the Very Top Raking in BIG Money!

And It doesn't really matter which Organization you're Talking about!

I Bounced BHA/BHA Members where they Stood on the Wolf Issue!

I Don't Know that I ever got a Straight/Honest Answer?

This World We Live in is F'D Up!

You'll Never Satisfy even 1/100 of the Different Types of Groups upon the Face of this Earth!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
As I've said in the past... I really respect your intellectual honesty and dedication to public land and not some blind loyalty to a group. The world would be much better if more people were like that!

I'm not ready to throw in the hat on BHA but my time on the Northern Region ends shortly and I have told them I will not be seeking another term. I have also expressed my reasoning behind that to the leadership but this forum isn't the place for me to expound.

I'm still looking for the right group(s) to really get behind. One that is NOT beholden to oil interests or the divestiture of public lands. One that understands "multiple-use" means more than just pillaging public land for the financial gain of a few. One that is apolitical and realizes that friends can come in many shapes and sizes. One that supports hunting-based management of wildlife and supports the 2nd Amendment. One that puts boots on the ground and money into projects with tangible results and appropriate accountability.

I hope to find that group!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>As I've said in the past...
>I really respect your intellectual
>honesty and dedication to public
>land and not some blind
>loyalty to a group. The
>world would be much better
>if more people were like
>that!
>
>I'm not ready to throw in
>the hat on BHA but
>my time on the Northern
>Region ends shortly and I
>have told them I will
>not be seeking another term.
>I have also expressed my
>reasoning behind that to the
>leadership but this forum isn't
>the place for me to
>expound.
>
>I'm still looking for the right
>group(s) to really get behind.
>One that is NOT beholden
>to oil interests or the
>divestiture of public lands. One
>that understands "multiple-use" means more
>than just pillaging public land
>for the financial gain of
>a few. One that is
>apolitical and realizes that friends
>can come in many shapes
>and sizes. One that supports
>hunting-based management of wildlife and
>supports the 2nd Amendment. One
>that puts boots on the
>ground and money into projects
>with tangible results and appropriate
>accountability.
>
>I hope to find that group!
>
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>


You always have an ally in me.

I'll be happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with BHA anytime the fight is land.


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
pillaging public land for the financial gain of a few

And Pillaging the Pockets of 1,000's,even 10's of 1,000's for the Financial Gain for a few!

Maybe We're the 'Not Rich Dummies'?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
From another forum on this subject in response to a post by hoss. I think it is important to the conversation to have BHA's response be heard, whether one agrees with it or not.

______________________________

If you didn't get a response from John Gale (BHA Conservation Director), I did, within 2 hours is sending an inquiry earlier today.

Hi XXXX,

I think there are some misconceptions about what this legislation means. I've been working on energy issues for a couple decades now and it's not always easy to convey all the details in a short online communication We're actually building an online information/education page on the website to help inform people about this bill.

The Public Land Renewable Energy Development Act (PLREDA, H.R. 3794) was introduced with the intention to provide proactive and responsible avoidance and mitigation for solar, wind and geothermal energy development on our public lands and consider fish and wildlife habitat as an up-front priority. The development of clean energy is becoming a growing presence on our public lands and it's time for the hunting, fishing and conservation community to be practical and avoid devastating damages to fish and wildlife habitat and our outdoor pursuits. There are concerns and questions circulating around the purpose of the bill and it's important to understand that this legislation doesn't drive new development but sets more protective standards for energy projects than exist currently while ensuring that we prioritize conservation as DOI considers new projects.

Our support of this legislation is not an endorsement of energy development itself but a set of important guidelines that must/should be followed when development does occur (and it will and it already is regardless of whether this legislation moves or dies). It's also worth noting that this bill doesn't create any new incentives for increased development but it does direct responsible policy and could facilitate more realistic competition across market conditions at any given time. If we had better standards like this in place for oil and gas development, maybe the Jonah field and Pinedale Anticline WY would look much different today?and have better habitat and greater migratory connectivity. We can support more rigorous standards for development without supporting the activities themselves. Does that make sense?

Here are some more details as well:

Directs the Department of the Interior (DOI) to identify appropriate areas for development.
The bill directs DOI to identify additional priority areas for all proposed wind, solar and geothermal projects using the 2012 Western Solar Plan as a model (Priority areas are also known as Designated Leasing Areas in the case of wind and solar).
Priority areas must meet certain criteria, including having access to transmission lines and being likely to avoid or minimize conflict with wildlife habitat, cultural resources and other resources and values.
Increases incentives for renewable energy development in priority areas.
Sets a goal for DOI to permit a total of 25 gigawatts of renewable energy on public lands by 2025.

Distributes the revenue collected from renewable energy development on public lands in the following way:
25 percent would go to the state where the project is built;
25 percent would go to the county where the project is built;
25 percent of the revenue would be deposited in a fund for wildlife and land conservation and securing recreational access to public lands;
15 percent of the revenue collected would go to the Bureau of Land Management to facilitate permitting of renewable energy projects;
10 percent shall be deposited into the general fund of the Treasury for purposes of reducing the annual Federal budget deficit.

Improves inter-agency cooperation on renewable energy projects on public lands.
Expands the establishment of a national Renewable Energy Coordination Office which will improve Federal permit coordination with respect to renewable energy projects.
Directs agencies to provide staffing resources to ensure project permitting moves forward as efficiently as possible.

We stand by our long-held position in support of the multiple-use mandate our public lands are governed by but don't believe that means every use in every place. BHA expects that all development and resource extraction to be done the right way in the right places and we hold all forms of energy to the same standards of accountability. If a project is highly consequential to fish and wildlife, WE WILL speak out against it. Where we are unsuccessful in preventing development, at least renewable will be held to a higher standard...which is important considering their longterm occupation on our public lands.

If you want more details, I'm happy to give other specifics or schedule a call with you too.

Best,

John
 
I didn't learn much. Its been covered in another forum, including math showing the result.

I no longer believe they treat all energy development the same.

I can't crush $fw for their "Funds going to Wildlife", then defend it if it comes from Missoula.

I'm not sure when my actual membership expires, I've sent money over and over which extended it. I also won't unsubscribe from their website or take action emails. But I no longer have faith in Land, I feel his personal politics are now making it impossible to sell public land needs to be no partisan, or a political.






"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Right behind you. It seems like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me. The reasons I joined are not what they promote and say. it's not until you get on the inside that you find this out. Is this normal for all these types of groups? I saw a lot of fundraising and a lot of funds raised but not a lot of action but I did hear about and read about a lot of action but could never verify any of it or any people that were involved. I wanted to take part, not in the get togethers or rendezvous but on projects that made a difference. Nope, 1.5 years later and still looking to volunteer. I've come to the conclusion that it's just a big marketing campaign to get you to give your card number. They sell a badge of honor but once you buy there is no honor to be sold~ I'm out.
 
>Right behind you. It seems like
>a lot of smoke and
>mirrors to me. The
>reasons I joined are not
>what they promote and say.
>it's not until you get
>on the inside that you
>find this out. Is
>this normal for all these
>types of groups? I
>saw a lot of fundraising
>and a lot of funds
>raised but not a lot
>of action but I did
>hear about and read about
>a lot of action but
>could never verify any of
>it or any people that
>were involved. I wanted to
>take part, not in the
>get togethers or rendezvous but
>on projects that made a
>difference. Nope, 1.5 years later
>and still looking to volunteer.
> I've come to the
>conclusion that it's just a
>big marketing campaign to get
>you to give your card
>number. They sell a
>badge of honor but once
>you buy there is no
>honor to be sold~ I'm
>out.

Never set foot inside, just looked thru the window. That was enough.....


"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
Again, we have millions of acres of airport parking that could be converted to covered parking using solar panels as the cover. How many acres of rooftops of government buildings do we have? Why would a public lands advocacy group promote covering public open lands with solar panels and windmills with so many other areas to put these things? There's really only one explanation.



"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
>Again, we have millions of acres
>of airport parking that could
>be converted to covered parking
>using solar panels as the
>cover. How many acres of
>rooftops of government buildings do
>we have? Why would a
>public lands advocacy group promote
>covering public open lands with
>solar panels and windmills with
>so many other areas to
>put these things? There's really
>only one explanation.
>
>
>
>"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
>
>Hossblur 7/25/19
>
>#livelikezac


That's the conclusion I came to as well

Which sucks, because I believe in their mission.


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-19 AT 04:42PM (MST)[p]Solar and wind are both a joke. Anybody thats looked into it knows nuclear is the answer.

Gen 3 and Gen 4 Nuclear. Zero meltdown risk and they consume their own waste.

Didn't know much about BHA but based on this they're either very dumb or corrupt.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-19
>AT 04:42?PM (MST)
>
>Solar and wind are both a
>joke. Anybody thats looked into
>it knows nuclear is the
>answer.
>
>Gen 3 and Gen 4 Nuclear.
>Zero meltdown risk and they
>consume their own waste.
>
>Didn't know much about BHA but
>based on this they're either
>very dumb or corrupt.

They have an agenda and its more than a bit left of sane.


"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
So in the bill and the explanation it says something about a 25 gigawatt installation. I can not tell if they are limiting it to 25 gigs Watts, but it it almost seems like the bills is forcing the BLM to build at least 25 gigs watts of capacity by a set date!

Anyone confirm?
 
>So in the bill and the
>explanation it says something about
>a 25 gigawatt installation. I
>can not tell if they
>are limiting it to 25
>gigs Watts, but it it
>almost seems like the bills
>is forcing the BLM to
>build at least 25 gigs
>watts of capacity by a
>set date!
>
>Anyone confirm?
 
>So in the bill and the
>explanation it says something about
>a 25 gigawatt installation. I
>can not tell if they
>are limiting it to 25
>gigs Watts, but it it
>almost seems like the bills
>is forcing the BLM to
>build at least 25 gigs
>watts of capacity by a
>set date!
>
>Anyone confirm?

Not forcing but the Bill sets a goal of 25 GW. Its not a limit. They would love it if the actual number was higher. Just as long as they build it in all that worthless, non impactful public land that we have laying around. Not sure where that is. BHA threw a sh!t fit last year when the BLM wanted to lease a quarter section for O&G development in Adobe town. If that is not a barren, worthless, sh!t hole I don't know what is.
 
It took you a while, Hoss, but you're seeing what some of us have tried to tell you about BHA from the beginning. Except we were castigated round and round for doing so at the time.

I accept your apology.
 
>It took you a while, Hoss,
>but you're seeing what some
>of us have tried to
>tell you about BHA from
>the beginning. Except we were
>castigated round and round for
>doing so at the time.
>
>
>I accept your apology.

Don't get too giddy. I fully support their mission as outlined in their mission statement.

I still think letting Yvon use his resources to fight for causes we share with him.

I just try not to be a hypocrite. I've bashed $fw for not standing up to their leadership. Land, and a couple others are wrong to drag a good organization into the green new deal universe.

So I walked. So have quite a few others based on my pm.

BHA still has a friend in me, I just don't care to get in the carbon footprint fight.

As always Vanilla, your the smartest guy to never make a point in MM

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-19 AT 08:02AM (MST)[p]>>It took you a while, Hoss,
>>but you're seeing what some
>>of us have tried to
>>tell you about BHA from
>>the beginning. Except we were
>>castigated round and round for
>>doing so at the time.
>>
>>
>>I accept your apology.
>
>Don't get too giddy. I
>fully support their mission as
>outlined in their mission statement.
>
>
>I still think letting Yvon use
>his resources to fight for
>causes we share with him.
>
>
>I just try not to be
>a hypocrite. I've bashed
>$fw for not standing up
>to their leadership. Land,
>and a couple others are
>wrong to drag a good
>organization into the green new
>deal universe.
>
>So I walked. So have
>quite a few others based
>on my pm.
>
>BHA still has a friend in
>me, I just don't care
>to get in the carbon
>footprint fight.
>
>As always Vanilla, your the smartest
>guy to never make a
>point in MM
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

Hell Hoss, most of us can get behind their mission statement, its their actions we've been takein issue with. And as I'm sure you've heard before, "actions speak louder than words", if you're willin to listen. Or is that just somethin that us "green decoy" people say?


"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
Once again, just because YOU missed the point does not mean that one was not made. The point is quite clear, actually.

Keep talking out both sides of your mouth, just like BHA. You guys are actually perfect for each other.

Viva Patagonia!!!
 
>>So in the bill and the
>>explanation it says something about
>>a 25 gigawatt installation. I
>>can not tell if they
>>are limiting it to 25
>>gigs Watts, but it it
>>almost seems like the bills
>>is forcing the BLM to
>>build at least 25 gigs
>>watts of capacity by a
>>set date!
>>
>>Anyone confirm?
>
>Not forcing but the Bill sets
>a goal of 25 GW.
> Its not a limit.
> They would love it
>if the actual number was
>higher. Just as long
>as they build it in
>all that worthless, non impactful
>public land that we have
>laying around. Not sure
>where that is. BHA
>threw a sh!t fit last
>year when the BLM wanted
>to lease a quarter section
>for O&G development in Adobe
>town. If that is
>not a barren, worthless, sh!t
>hole I don't know what
>is.

I love adobe town and am really bummed by all the gas/exploration that has occurred out there, but I can not understand why the BHA would support a bill that sets a production goal...
 
About a year or so ago I was getting all into Randy Newberg and listening to all his pod cast, watching all his videos and I was getting sucked into his mission statement.

Then I listened to him explain over several pod cast (paraphrasing here) about his political views. A little here and a little there. I listened to him speak like a Liberal, a Climate Change wacko, I fanatical. When I heard him say he would vote for public land over pro life it put his view into prospective. For me after that I had my guard up. When he started talking about BHA rendezvous, having board members along on his hunts I linked his political views with BHA and never trusted that group.

I think climate change is the biggest scam ever. I'm surprised how many outdoorsman think it's true.

As infinite God is to create majestic animals he was just as wise when creating the earth. We are not big enough to alter his creation! I just think all this stuff(BHA) was from the beginning a smoke screen. It takes a big man to admit they now see the manipulation.

I surprised you still say you would stand by them.
 
^^^ so your argument has something to do with abortion and your belief that God created an Earth so magnificent that we shouldn't try and protect it because we're too small to hurt it in the first place? Wow! :smh:

I see no relation to abortion here. And view the Earth as a gift from God so great we have a duty to protect it and not greedily leave it worse for our kids than we found it. Just as we expect our children to care for gifts we give them, we should care for gifts given to us.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>^^^ so your argument has something
>to do with abortion and
>your belief that God created
>an Earth so magnificent that
>we shouldn't try and protect
>it because we're too small
>to hurt it in the
>first place? Wow! :smh:
>
>I see no relation to abortion
>here. And view the Earth
>as a gift from God
>so great we have a
>duty to protect it and
>not greedily leave it worse
>for our kids than we
>found it. Just as we
>expect our children to care
>for gifts we give them,
>we should care for gifts
>given to us.

Grizz

Honestly, are you offended? I'm not linking abortion to climate! I'm linking an ideology of liberal minds. I'm making a point that when I give people enough time to talk they show themselves who they are. I take care of the environment, I don't liter, I don't leave trash, I don't rally on my ATV all over the hill. I love pristine country.

I don't believe in ?man made? climate change but you do. Sorry you are so gullible! And yes God created a world that we should respect, he also created all things we use to innovate, to advance technology, and I think we are too small in the big picture to alter weather. It's as simple as that and until you stop driving your car, flying on airplane, using gas powered lawnmowers, farting and heck breathing. All put off CO2 which you claim and the groups you support are having an effect on the air we breath and the land we use. It's not my fault you fall for such a ridiculous premise.

I do support you in your desire to find a group that fights for wildlife and public lands and the traditions we all enjoy.

I don't support BHA because they are climate fanatics that lobby for things that I believe take or infringe on my freedoms.

And on Abortion, you can't respect a God and his magnificent creation ?earth? and piss on the ultimate creation ?Life? first is life second is the earth life occupies. Priorities!
 
Whoa, relax! I tried to respectfully show how two people can have a different viewpoint though the lens of religiosity, but it didn't land.

I'm not offended at all and never implied I was. You can believe in whatever God, deity, or agnostic belief you desire. So can everybody else. There are billions of people out there that worship a God that you likely don't even recognize as existing, and vice versa. A person's theoretical belief that God created abortion as a way to prevent unwanted pregnancy is just as valid and defensible to that person as your belief that it's wrong. They have exactly as much rights to their deeply-held beliefs as you. And it's just as real to them as yours. YOU DON'T OWN THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR ANYONE'S GOD! Everybody gets their own relationship with their Creator or the ability to believe there is no Creator at all. Nobody is right, and nobody is wrong.

Here's some unsolicited advice for you... don't ever say something like, "you can't respect God" because people can respect or believe in anything they want. And to them, you're the one that is deeply flawed in your beliefs.

Feel free to state your opinions (except on abortion, which clearly has no place on this forum), but don't assign beliefs to others (such as saying that I believe in "man-made" climate change, which I've NEVER written) or describe to people how their relationship to their Creator must be the same as yours to be "respected". You reveal yourself as being a fanatic not worth the word print of this page. Therefore, it would be wise to leave your religious beliefs off the MM pages.

PS. Founder really should erase all posts with reference to abortion. For some reason, there are certain people that find it necessary to repeatedly bring it up due to their inability to adequately defend a hunting/land related issue. I see no benefit to anybody in that type of oration on this site.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Grizz are you not refreincing to abortion.
You are refreincing that you do not agree with boomer take on why he did not agree with Newberg choosing public land over abortion.
I really think you are going a little bit over board grizz.
 
>Grizz are you not refreincing to
>abortion.
>You are refreincing that you do
>not agree with boomer take
>on why he did not
>agree with Newberg choosing public
>land over abortion.
>I really think you are going
>a little bit over board
>grizz.

Go read it again, notdon. He referenced God and abortion in post 23. My two posts since then (24 and 26) were specifically written to say: 1) nobody gets to declare what God wants as everyone gets to worship how they choose, or choose not; and 2) to keep abortion out of it.

I've seen dozens of cases of people on this site somehow using abortion to justify their voting record, a clear admission of defeat on the topic, but it has no place in a discussion on a hunting forum.

I thought I made it clear in 26, but apparently I'm not relaying it well. My point in the "God" rebuttal is that two people can have equally devout beliefs about what "God wants" but neither is more correct than the other. So it therefore is not an argument at all.

Have you ever noticed that everybody believes that their God believes exactly like they do? Nobody ever says, "God believes (insert subject here), but he's wrong and I'm right." If somebody is a racist/xenophobe, it's often what God wants (and not just with Christianity, but with other religions, too. Go read literature on white supremacy and it's filled with biblical verse. The middle-east has been fighting wars over this for eons). If somebody thinks immigrants should be allowed in the country, its because God said, "Let the children come to me." If somebody thinks gay people shouldn't be able to get married, it's because God said marriage is between a man and woman (or a man and many women, depending on your religion and the year you were born). If somebody thinks women should be allowed to hold the priesthood, it's because God loves all his children equally. Etc... Etc... Etc...

Nobody owns the right to speak on behalf of a deity, so it shouldn't even be tried. Especially on a hunting forum.. The initial post brought God into the subject under the pretense that we were too small to alter his plan. My point is that somebody else could say with equal devotion, "If God gave us this Earth, how dare we destroy it for our own personal, greedy, financial gain. For something as trivial as money."

Clearly that type of talk is a discussion to nowhere and has no place on this site. I'm in no way espousing a belief that God and abortion belong in this subject, exactly the opposite actually. Hopefully that clears up what I'm trying to say.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Once again, just because YOU missed
>the point does not mean
>that one was not made.
>The point is quite clear,
>actually.
>
>Keep talking out both sides of
>your mouth, just like BHA.
>You guys are actually perfect
>for each other.
>
>Viva Patagonia!!!


Can't decide if you fancy yourself Yoda or Mr Miyagi or the Riddler.


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
It clears it up loud and clear grizz.
Grizz says no one else has a right to say I do not support a organization (BHA) because of there association with Newberg because he values pro life rights more than public land issue.
That's a little conceited grizz.
And all that what you said about he has no right too refer to abortion it has no place in a hunting forum was exactly my point grizz he refers in his post 23 why he can not support a organization because of Newbergs stance on public land and abortion he did not state pepole should not have abortions or they are going to hell if they do. So it seems Newberg inserted abortion in this public land debate not a hunting debate.
I personally do not care if someone comes on this site or others and tells me I am an idiot for believing in the Lord as my savior. That there God is the only one that is right. That is there opinion and it really does not affect me in any way.
And please drop the "you can not talk about that this is a hunting forum" it has been going on for twenty years and it will still be going on for another twenty years if God willing founder keeps the site going.
Amen
 
Grizz, you should reread post 23. He was referencing newbergs comments on one of his podcasts, and you were offended. He used it as an example of who BHA is and what they stand for.


"Then I listened to him explain over several pod cast (paraphrasing here) about his political views. A little here and a little there. I listened to him speak like a Liberal, a Climate Change wacko, I fanatical. When I heard him say he would vote for public land over pro life it put his view into prospective. For me after that I had my guard up. When he started talking about BHA rendezvous, having board members along on his hunts I linked his political views with BHA and never trusted that group."




"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-19 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]>>^^^ so your argument has something
>>to do with abortion and
>>your belief that God created
>>an Earth so magnificent that
>>we shouldn't try and protect
>>it because we're too small
>>to hurt it in the
>>first place? Wow! :smh:
>>
>>I see no relation to abortion
>>here. And view the Earth
>>as a gift from God
>>so great we have a
>>duty to protect it and
>>not greedily leave it worse
>>for our kids than we
>>found it. Just as we
>>expect our children to care
>>for gifts we give them,
>>we should care for gifts
>>given to us.
>
>Grizz
>
>Honestly, are you offended? I'm not
>linking abortion to climate! I'm
>linking an ideology of liberal
>minds. I'm making a point
>that when I give people
>enough time to talk they
>show themselves who they are.
>I take care of the
>environment, I don't liter, I
>don't leave trash, I don't
>rally on my ATV all
>over the hill. I love
>pristine country.
>
>I don't believe in ?man made?
>climate change but you do.
>Sorry you are so gullible!
>And yes God created a
>world that we should respect,
>he also created all things
>we use to innovate, to
>advance technology, and I think
>we are too small in
>the big picture to alter
>weather. It's as simple as
>that and until you stop
>driving your car, flying on
>airplane, using gas powered lawnmowers,
>farting and heck breathing. All
>put off CO2 which you
>claim and the groups you
>support are having an effect
>on the air we breath
>and the land we use.
>It's not my fault you
>fall for such a ridiculous
>premise.
>
>I do support you in your
>desire to find a group
>that fights for wildlife and
>public lands and the traditions
>we all enjoy.
>
>I don't support BHA because they
>are climate fanatics that lobby
>for things that I believe
>take or infringe on my
>freedoms.
>
>And on Abortion, you can't respect
>a God and his magnificent
>creation ?earth? and piss on
>the ultimate creation ?Life? first
>is life second is the
>earth life occupies. Priorities!

You do of course realize irrigation associations seed clouds right? They are altering weather. They use propane.

You of course lump together a lot.

Climate change is of course real. I live in Lake Bonneville lake bed, surrounded by mountains that were glaciated. Climate changes.

Man made? I'm not sure. Man accelerated, most likely, though im skeptical of the pace claimed by leftists.

As for Newberg, and myself. Btw, I'll be needing a link to that podcast. He takes a very strong stance on public land, but he's a life member of the NRA, and the first to televise a wolf hunt. Not really big lib positions.
What is liberal about protecting public land?
In order to be anti abortion you have to be pro public land sale? That dog whistle of the repubs seems to work great on you.

And be honest. Where is abortion being stopped by the conservatives. Still waiting for the Mike Lee abortion amendment. In fact, still waiting for the conservatives to do anything but fund raise on the issue.(There is a conservative advantage in SCOTUS isn't there?)


To me it's simple. On one side are a bunch of hippies wanting to protect land. On the other, multinational corporations wanting to destroy it. Not a hard choice.

And guess what. After Mike Lee sell a off your land, he'll still be blowing that abortion dog whistle. Uncle Orrin did for 40 years, yet he never did much about it.



"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Beat me to it notdon! :D



"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
Boomer,
Hats off for listening and realizing what you hear. My personal experience with BHA and its members was headed down the path you discovered last year. Randy N and Steve R are not sportsmen that align with many of my views, their supoport of BHA has only reinforced that.

Grizz is a perfect liberal, so caught up on one issue he allows all the others to go unchecked. The Dems have built their empire on catering to those just like involved passionately in special interest groups. And just like a text book modern lib he screamed for Founder to censor Boomers opinion on the subject. Another example of what the BHA is made up of . #notfriendsofhunters
 
There are a lot of people throwing labels around but saying nothing substantive and offering nothing constructive. My posts have been centered around not labeling or making non-constructive arguments and trying to stay on topic, but it seems futile.

Carry on. I'm going to go watch MeatEater, the liberal anti-hunting crusader working deep in a conspiracy to ban hunting by supporting BHA and the protection of public land. ;-)

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
This is funny. The smoke and mirrors are out in full force!

If I keep you looking at my left hand, maybe you won't realize what my right hand is doing.
 
Grizz I never pretended to offer solutions but I will call someone out when they state there opinion on a matter but say no one else has a right to an opinion.
That is what I am most tired of in this country.
We are told we can not have an opinion on race because we are not a minority, can not have a opinion about abortion we are not women, can not have opinion on gay rights we are not gay, it goes on on and on.
I might agree with boomer I might not but he has a right to have an opinion and if he cross the line according to the moderators then they can be the ones to sensor his posts it is not my nor yours right to tell him he can not share his opinion.
We agree to certain rules when we created an account on this site and them rules dictate weather we cross a line not you or me.
And yes grizz I will stand with you if you want to share your opinion even if I do not agree with you. I have no problems with your opinion about how all ideas of God are the same even thoe I do not agree with you.
I know I am doing alot of rambling but I hope you get might point.
 
Notdon, you entirely missed my point. My point, stated as clearly as possible, is that everybody can have an opinion and nobody's is more right than another's. I flat-out stated that. Have any opinion you want, just don't assign labels or opinions to others (such as who is a "liberal" or supports "man-made" global warming when they literally never wrote anything like that). And don't come on a hunting page to claim that your specific beliefs in God somehow are more right than another's. Or that abortion somehow belongs on this thread.

You brought up the Forum Rules... You should go read them. They say, "No off-topic messages or threads." That's exactly my point!

According to the rules you brought up, I am a lot more in line by saying to leave God and abortion out of it than anybody is trying to inject it into the discussion.

I also said Founder should remove threads about abortion, which is exactly what the Rules say will happen with off-subject posts. Founder has also said he doesn't monitor them and to notify him when something should be removed. I haven't done it because I'd rather people just stay on subject than run to the teacher.

If people want to talk hunting, let's talk hunting. If they want to preach their religious beliefs, I'm sure there is a more appropriate place to do that.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Yet Grizz continues to promote and prolong the off-topic discussion going on here? Irony, at its best. Seems like you are pretty content with this one staying off topic.

Smoke and mirrors. What topic is he trying to distract us from here? Oh, BHA. That's right. Carry on with religion, abortion, and global warming though Grizz. Keep telling us what is wrong to discuss about those over, and over, and over again. Let's never get back to the point of this thread and what is wrong with BHA, because that would be very detrimental to your all our assault on those of us who dared question the group from the beginning on these very same lines that have clearly revealed themselves.
 
You can have all the discussion you want about BHA. Has anybody even defended this specific position here? I know I haven't. On another BHA-friendly hunting forum, they have a thread 97 posts long of guys saying things similar to Hoss. Hunters aren't happy with this and BHA is on damage control, hence all the subsequent PRs.

We'll see where they go after this, but compared to the avowed positions of other "conservation groups" BHA is clearly not the group that poses the most threat to public land hunting.

I said what I'm going to say to the initial OP in post 2. The people in charge know where I stand and that's far more important than airing it out here. Can you say the same thing?

Say what you want to say, but if it has to do with your religion or abortion, then it has nothing to do with this subject, or anything else related to hunting, and doesn't belong here.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Back to distracting and prolonging the off-topic discussion after I try to bring it back on topic.

Your tactics are well known. You?re not fooling anyone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-19 AT 09:46AM (MST)[p]>Back to distracting and prolonging the
>off-topic discussion after I try
>to bring it back on
>topic.
>
>Your tactics are well known.
>You?re not fooling anyone.

Yet again, you attempt to distract from the topic and instead try and show up to attack others while not saying anything interesting and then run away. I've seen multiple people call you out on that, but here you go again. Your tactics are well-known.

Stay on subject of HR 3794, the subject of this thread. It is co-sponsored by Rob Bishop. Is he a raging liberal now? Does your single-issue angst apply equally? Or is it selective to align with your predetermined views. Here's your chance to be intellectually honest. Stay on subject.

Grizzly
 
What broomer originally said has everything to do with the topic at hand grizz. If someone that is a big part of an organization states he would be willing to vote against a position that I fell is very important to me in order for his beliefs and position. then I have a right to state his belifs and position as the reason I do not support that organization.
Grizz I am not defending what broomer stated in post #25 in response to you that is between you and him but his origanal post #23 is on topic and relevant to discusion.

Yes hoss you are right the right uses pro life as a fundraiser but the left uses legitimate women health concerns too fund abortion.
Sorry grizz just had to get that out of the way.
 
>Stay on subject of HR 3794,
>the subject of this thread.
>It is co-sponsored by Rob
>Bishop. Is he a raging
>liberal now? Does your single-issue
>angst apply equally? Or is
>it selective to align with
>your predetermined views. Here's your
>chance to be intellectually honest.
>Stay on subject.
>
>Grizzly


What is my single issue? I'm just curious, as I didn't know I had one.

And you are the last person that should be calling anyone out on anything about "honesty" here, grizz. You and Hoss spouted off and attacked people as being "intellectually dishonest" for months on this issue, and all the concerns people like me brought up along the way that gave us pause with BHA are coming to fruition. You continue to bring up this other crap to distract from the fact that BHA is not a friend to hunters. You hitched your wagon to them, and now you have to live with that. Enough with the ad hominem attacks because you have nothing else to stand on in this discussion. Time to be intellectually honest.
 
Run, Vanilla, hide, distract and avoid.

It's a small-minded individual that thinks supporting a group means you are forever "hitched" to them. Or that "you have to live with" every position they take. Taking that mindset absolves yourself of all power and influence in an organization. Those you agree with have no reason to maintain your support and those you disagree with have no reason to seek it. Because you're their lacky and will be there no matter what.

Free-thinkers realize there can be good and bad from all directions. Heck, even BHA and Rob Bishop (practically mortal enemies) understand that and supported the same bill; which happens to be one I disagree with. So I will criticize them equally for it. I'm not stuck in some intellectual quagmire where I have to attack one person and defend another for the same position. Trump supporters here are stuck defending his gun bans and massive deficit spending because they think "they have to live with it." NRA used to understand that when they supported gun rights and not just "R" politicians even when they were seizing firearms and supporting bills promoting oil drilling (hardly a gun issue!). Hoss understands that is not the case. I understand that is not the case. Its part of being an independent adult.

Notice how you always show up to be a problem, but never a solution? Many here have.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Run, Vanilla, hide, distract and avoid.
>
>
>It's a small-minded individual that thinks
>supporting a group means you
>are forever "hitched" to them.
>Or that "you have to
>live with" every position they
>take. Taking that mindset absolves
>yourself of all power and
>influence in an organization. Those
>you agree with have no
>reason to maintain your support
>and those you disagree with
>have no reason to seek
>it. Because you're their lacky
>and will be there no
>matter what.
>
>Free-thinkers realize there can be good
>and bad from all directions.
>Heck, even BHA and Rob
>Bishop (practically mortal enemies) understand
>that and supported the same
>bill; which happens to be
>one I disagree with. So
>I will criticize them equally
>for it. I'm not stuck
>in some intellectual quagmire where
>I have to attack one
>person and defend another for
>the same position. Trump supporters
>here are stuck defending his
>gun bans and massive deficit
>spending because they think "they
>have to live with it."
>NRA used to understand that
>when they supported gun rights
>and not just "R" politicians
>even when they were seizing
>firearms and supporting bills promoting
>oil drilling (hardly a gun
>issue!). Hoss understands that is
>not the case. I understand
>that is not the case.
>Its part of being an
>independent adult.
>
>Notice how you always show up
>to be a problem, but
>never a solution? Many here
>have.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

So let me understand this grizz.
You grizz, hoss, and BHA can support a group or an individual that ultimately pushes your agenda even if they might support or drive a idea or policy that you might not agree with.
But others me included are "intellectually dishonest" because we might support Republicans or even SFW, because according to you and hoss in your guys words (labeling people) all Republicans support selling all public property.
 
>Is everyone here retired, unemployed or
>bored? Most places are sunny
>and warm right now, get
>outside and enjoy....


Best advise so far...?
 
>So let me understand this grizz.
>
>You grizz, hoss, and BHA can
>support a group or an
>individual that ultimately pushes your
>agenda even if they might
>support or drive a idea
>or policy that you might
>not agree with.
>But others me included are "intellectually
>dishonest" because we might support
>Republicans or even SFW, because
>according to you and hoss
>in your guys words (labeling
>people) all Republicans support selling
>all public property.

A few things... You added "all" to Republicans. Something that was never said. Selling public land however is an official plank of the Republican Party.

The intellectual honesty part is when you can criticize and question a group in spite of your past support. Hoss left BHA because of this position. I didn't go that far but have contacted many high-ranking people in BHA and have said I won't be serving another term on their Utah Board because of some of my concerns. We are not beholden to groups.... that is an example of intellectual honesty. Our allegiance is to the idea, not the group. An SFW supporter that is willing to publicly criticize for positions with which they disagree doesn't mean they must leave SFW... just that they disagree on a specific position and are honest in their assessment. It means they are an individual with the capability to assess a position on their own. Intellectual honesty can come from both sides of the political spectrum. There are many members of SFW that I respect and are very good people and sportsmen, many of which are working to change the inner workings to better support wildlife and hunting. I'll give you a specific example from me... SFW made a very significant contribution to Utah wildlife with Prop 5, and Utah hunters owe them a debt of gratitude. If I was an anti-SFW lacky, I would be unable to congratulate them on a job well-done.

The intellectually dishonest people are those that criticize BHA for this bill, but not Rob Bishop, the co-sponsor, for example. Those that support NRA but fail to criticize them for supporting oil drilling (something that has nothing to do with their stated purpose) or the seizure of bump stocks without Due Process or compensation. Those that criticize Obama for deficit spending but support Trump, who is actually on track to outspend Obama.

I'll give you another example of intellectual honesty in reference to intellectual honesty. A few days ago, liberal TV commentator Chris Cuomo was in a skirmish caught on camera. Trump attacked him for it. Conservative TV commentator Sean Hannity defended Cuomo. This is an example of Hannity being intellectually honest by looking at the scenario and not just the person involved.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
What if one does not support Bishop. Is he still required to criticize everything he does, even when he wasn't the subject of the thread, to be intellectually honest?

Does being intellectually honest include explaining an allegation of single issue voting against someone? Or is being intellectually honest just allowing you to throw out any old attack you want and then duck out?

I'm asking, since you are clearly the authority on intellectual honesty.
 
I am pretty sure grizz either you or hoss has said "all Republicans" in past posts on other threads but if you have not I apologize.
The Republican party's platform does not state they will sell all public land. What the platform is about is turning over Fedral property to State control. It is your assumptions that the state would then sell the land and most MMers I think agree with you on that. But it is an assumption that you have (that I do agree with) not a fact.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-19 AT 07:11PM (MST)[p]Since iam the OP it's funny to watch the usuals twist what i said.

BHA has a mission statement. Rinella sums it up best. "Keep public land in public hands".

I saw the bill, and frankly it does nothing but give public land to private hands. I protested. I got BS spin and PR in return, I bailed.

I expected DW to pile on. He didn't.

I knew Vanilla would have some twisted hikau poem, or Yoda speak, and of course he didn't disappoint.

So let's clear it up. Prop 5 was awesome, THE DON deserves credit. $fw does great work. Their mission statement, and their actions ARE NOT THE SAME.

NRA does good work. But no where in their mission statement does supporting oil drilling enter.

The republican party in also does good. One needs only look at the economy. BUT ITS ON THEIR POLITICAL PLATFORM TO "UNLOAD" public land.

I didn't make that up. It's a fact. Feel free to Google it, or ask Vanilla.

I DO NOT hate BHA. If they want to roll into town to kick Mike Lee in the teeth, I'll drive, and buy beer. I have no interest in entering the global warming fight.

My issue is that I joined a land conservation group. Not a global warming group. So i split.

Now I openly challenge all of the R in here. Abortion is legal. Spending is through the roof. Trump is is going against the NRA. Obama care is law. Don't give me "the libs are worse".

WHEN DO YOU SPLIT?

When do YOU get HONEST and realize everything you yap about, has been being yapped about for 40+years. That's Reagan, 2 bushes, and a Trump. When DO YOU SAY, ENOUGH? When do u do something as simple as officially becoming an I?

I know it's easy to say "flaming lib, commie, dem, etc" When do YOU change course?

For me it was when BHA did things contrary to what they preached.

I didn't claim moral high ground. I put it right here so all of you could see it.

But until YOU step up and "put your money where your mouth is", your just noise backing your team. You're like the Jets fans on draft night, or Cowboys fans in preseason. All talk.

"From the party of hunting, fishing, public land" I actually mean it. DO YOU?

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Man made climate change is the BIGGEST Scam, and you who buy into it are supporters of all political establishment types who want to run up the deficit and offer every free program to those that don't want to work for it and then come after your hard earned money by taxing your ?Carbon footprint? (made up word to support there agenda) and you will no be the wiser!

As the OP states I'm Out!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-19 AT 07:14PM (MST)[p]>Man made climate change is the
>BIGGEST Scam, and you who
>buy into it are supporters
>of all political establishment types
>who want to run up
>the deficit and offer every
>free program to those that
>don't want to work for
>it and then come after
>your hard earned money by
>taxing your ?Carbon footprint? (made
>up word to support there
>agenda) and you will no
>be the wiser!
>
>As the OP states I'm Out!
>

Did you miss Trump running up the deficit 2 weeks ago? Get real. You are getting dog whistled. Your the dude playing 3 card Monte. YOU ALREADY LOST. Nothing you preach has changed since the 70's.







"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Yes, GOP national has had the transfer of federal lands to state control as a basic tenant of its platform. It was a couple years ago they added that, I believe 2016. I'm not sure if they've changed it or not? I don't see any reason why they would have, but I guess anything is possible. To be clear, in principle, I agree that the lands should be in state control, but knowing what would happen if that occurred, I prefer them to stay right where they are in federal hands. And that's pretty sad!

Since we're publishing resumes here to show our HONESTY, I guess I'll oblige.

I was a registered independent for years. I lean conservative both fiscally and socially, but have long hated political parties in general.. I had zero desire to be aligned with any of them. I registered as an R as I wanted to vote in a specific primary election I had strong feelings about, and then afterward went to a caucus meeting and hated what I was hearing so I threw my name in the hat to try to give my voice some volume and effect some change. That was a lesson learned. Republican county conventions in Utah, particularly in my county, are nuts. I won't make that mistake again. The Republican Party has very little to offer me, even as a conservative. I espouse the view of some of the founders that stated the two party system would be the downfall of our nation. I think we see that play out daily in our country in the present.

I didn't vote for President Trump in the last presidential election. I will not vote for him in the next one either. While I think there have been some good things that have transpired the last two years, I believe the person matters. If you're going to be the leader of the free world, you should at least pretend to be a decent human being.

Representative Bishop is not my congressman, but if he were, I wouldn't vote for him either based up on his public lands stance. Not sure why this became about him and calling him out, but I'll make my stance perfectly clear, so that we can be HONEST for YOU.

I have put my money and my time and efforts where my mouth is on public lands/waters/resources. I didn't just hitch my wagon to a group then yell at everyone on the internet that didn't like the group and call them dumb like some people. I have been in the meetings. I have been at the Capitol. Spent my entire 3rd year of law school fighting the fight on the ground instead of being in the books. I was asked to join the Governor?s task force to try to resolve issues on stream access. I did research and contributed to the lawsuit working to restore public rights once the political process failed us. This isn't a new fight for me. I've been in the trenches for over a decade.

You can throw out labels, and the two of you (Hoss and Grizz) can keep holding hands to try and attack me, keep patting each other on the back for your great zingers, it doesn't change the fact that you guys screwed the pooch on this one. Glad you're coming to your senses. Better late than never.

So, I'll wait for Grizz to be intellectually HONEST and answer the simple questions above. Unless he was just spitting crap like normal in a facade he tries to make look like something different.
 
When you've got a horse headed in the right direction at the right speed, there's no need to dig your Spurs into his sides, you just let him keep moving forward thinking it was his idea. I know that if you or I or Grizz would ever meet we would probably be instant friends. Because I have no doubt the three of us want the same things. There will probably come a day when I drive over the hill to the show that the two of you hate, hopefully the two of you can put your disdain for the show aside and we can spend some time together. I know I would enjoy it. Today was an odd day for me, I played in a charity golf tournament for a man who passed away two Falls ago. He left behind a wife and two young kids. I was supposed to go on that Eastern Colorado pheasant hunt but I had a meeting in the morning and couldn't make it. My meeting canceled late the night before we were supposed to leave and I thought it would be rude for me to try to get back in. So I didn't go, and he went in my place. It was just one of those days that throws things into perspective. Hope the two of you are well..........



"Not sure I grasp BHA motivation".
Hossblur 7/25/19

#livelikezac
 
Seeing Hoss at the EXPO!:D

He probably don't want to admit it!

But I'd bet He's been there a few times!:D








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
One of these Days You Boys are gonna Believe me!

It's all about $$$!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>You do of course realize irrigation
>associations seed clouds right?
>They are altering weather.
>They use propane.
>
>You of course lump together a
>lot.
>
>Climate change is of course real.
> I live in Lake
>Bonneville lake bed, surrounded by
>mountains that were glaciated. Climate
>changes.
>
>Man made? I'm not sure.
> Man accelerated, most likely,
>though im skeptical of the
>pace claimed by leftists.
>
>As for Newberg, and myself. Btw,
>I'll be needing a link
>to that podcast. He
>takes a very strong stance
>on public land, but he's
>a life member of the
>NRA, and the first to
>televise a wolf hunt.
>Not really big lib positions.
>
> What is liberal about protecting
>public land?
>In order to be anti abortion
>you have to be pro
>public land sale? That
>dog whistle of the repubs
>seems to work great on
>you.
>
> And be honest. Where
>is abortion being stopped by
>the conservatives. Still waiting
>for the Mike Lee abortion
>amendment. In fact, still
>waiting for the conservatives to
>do anything but fund raise
>on the issue.(There is a
>conservative advantage in SCOTUS isn't
>there?)
>
>
>To me it's simple. On
>one side are a bunch
>of hippies wanting to protect
>land. On the other,
>multinational corporations wanting to destroy
>it. Not a hard
>choice.
>
>And guess what. After Mike
>Lee sell a off your
>land, he'll still be blowing
>that abortion dog whistle.
>Uncle Orrin did for 40
>years, yet he never did
>much about it.
>
>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

You?ll have to do your own listening and find that podcast yourself. All I did was listen to many of his podcast last summer and he brought up this issue of his political view quite a bit. He left the Republican Party in his local district he explains that entire thing. Along the way he boldly states that he would vote for someone who believes in pro choice as long as they vote to keep public lands in federal control. Btw I like randy, I don't hate or think he is an enemy. I just wasn?t going to get manipulated to join a group just because we have hunting in common.

Don?t think you know what I stand for because you are throwing strikes!

Climate does change it's called seasons.

Not sure where to put you as a independent or a Democrat. However, the dems use public land to keep people like you and grizz hooked and then run the ?12 years and we are going to die? mantra to cater to the other side of their base.

You make all these analogies that if you are republican you agree with transferring public land. And that the pro life angle is them catering to the rest of their base. So if I support pro life issues therefore I'm pro public land transfer?

When I said I saw Newbergs view and linked them to being liberal it's because he literally said that he values public land over killing babies!

You know what grizz and Hoss, you keep preaching public land ?not for sale? I support that. ?I say stop killing babies? do you support me?

Why are there more Polar Bears than in recent years? Because we aren't hunting them that's why. They aren't dying because the ice glaziers are melting. Do these liberals that haven't even seen a polar bear realize that they swim? Have you ever put ice in a glass of water and watch it melt? Glass doesn't overflow! The sea is not going to rise because ice from the arctic is melting of into the ocean.

Why do they put so much enfaces on climate change in our schools? Why don't they pound into our children?s heads ?keep public lands out of state control?? Why?

It's fear mongers wanting to achieve an agenda to someday carbon tax us. Why was it that every country joined the Paris Accord but weren't paying into it? Trump pulled out because the American tax payers where the only ones fronting the bill. And the bill what the freak was that being used for? The money what was it doing? Paying the elite in Brussels for just being elite! Climate change is a fraud and you say I'm being dog whistled? By who? I could say the same thing for you. I say public land sale and it fires you up. It's a hot topic.

I want public land to stay public but I'm not going to vote for a dem just because he will vote no on a public land transfer bill but turn around and vote yes on a late term abortion bill. I'll look for other ways to fight the land deal.

BHA never was going to fight the land battle for us but they sure as hell will fight the global warming issue with the weight of their membership. You and grizz got taken and maybe this thread is you owning up to that fact but to call me out as loosing? Interesting.
 
>>You do of course realize irrigation
>>associations seed clouds right?
>>They are altering weather.
>>They use propane.
>>
>>You of course lump together a
>>lot.
>>
>>Climate change is of course real.
>> I live in Lake
>>Bonneville lake bed, surrounded by
>>mountains that were glaciated. Climate
>>changes.
>>
>>Man made? I'm not sure.
>> Man accelerated, most likely,
>>though im skeptical of the
>>pace claimed by leftists.
>>
>>As for Newberg, and myself. Btw,
>>I'll be needing a link
>>to that podcast. He
>>takes a very strong stance
>>on public land, but he's
>>a life member of the
>>NRA, and the first to
>>televise a wolf hunt.
>>Not really big lib positions.
>>
>> What is liberal about protecting
>>public land?
>>In order to be anti abortion
>>you have to be pro
>>public land sale? That
>>dog whistle of the repubs
>>seems to work great on
>>you.
>>
>> And be honest. Where
>>is abortion being stopped by
>>the conservatives. Still waiting
>>for the Mike Lee abortion
>>amendment. In fact, still
>>waiting for the conservatives to
>>do anything but fund raise
>>on the issue.(There is a
>>conservative advantage in SCOTUS isn't
>>there?)
>>
>>
>>To me it's simple. On
>>one side are a bunch
>>of hippies wanting to protect
>>land. On the other,
>>multinational corporations wanting to destroy
>>it. Not a hard
>>choice.
>>
>>And guess what. After Mike
>>Lee sell a off your
>>land, he'll still be blowing
>>that abortion dog whistle.
>>Uncle Orrin did for 40
>>years, yet he never did
>>much about it.
>>
>>
>>
>>"I don't care if the season
>>is closed. Get off your
>>butt and go hunt them"
>>
>>
>>TRISTATE
>>3/11/19
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>You?ll have to do your own
>listening and find that podcast
>yourself. All I did was
>listen to many of his
>podcast last summer and he
>brought up this issue of
>his political view quite a
>bit. He left the Republican
>Party in his local district
>he explains that entire thing.
>Along the way he boldly
>states that he would vote
>for someone who believes in
>pro choice as long as
>they vote to keep public
>lands in federal control. Btw
>I like randy, I don't
>hate or think he is
>an enemy. I just wasn?t
>going to get manipulated to
>join a group just because
>we have hunting in common.
>
>
>Don?t think you know what I
>stand for because you are
>throwing strikes!
>
>Climate does change it's called seasons.
>
>
>Not sure where to put you
>as a independent or a
>Democrat. However, the dems use
>public land to keep people
>like you and grizz hooked
>and then run the ?12
>years and we are going
>to die? mantra to cater
>to the other side of
>their base.
>
>You make all these analogies that
>if you are republican you
>agree with transferring public land.
>And that the pro life
>angle is them catering to
>the rest of their base.
>So if I support pro
>life issues therefore I'm pro
>public land transfer?
>
>When I said I saw Newbergs
>view and linked them to
>being liberal it's because he
>literally said that he values
>public land over killing babies!
>
>
>You know what grizz and Hoss,
>you keep preaching public land
>?not for sale? I support
>that. ?I say stop killing
>babies? do you support me?
>
>
>Why are there more Polar Bears
>than in recent years? Because
>we aren't hunting them that's
>why. They aren't dying because
>the ice glaziers are melting.
>Do these liberals that haven't
>even seen a polar bear
>realize that they swim? Have
>you ever put ice in
>a glass of water and
>watch it melt? Glass doesn't
>overflow! The sea is not
>going to rise because ice
>from the arctic is melting
>of into the ocean.
>
>Why do they put so much
>enfaces on climate change in
>our schools? Why don't they
>pound into our children?s heads
>?keep public lands out of
>state control?? Why?
>
>It's fear mongers wanting to achieve
>an agenda to someday carbon
>tax us. Why was it
>that every country joined the
>Paris Accord but weren't paying
>into it? Trump pulled out
>because the American tax payers
>where the only ones fronting
>the bill. And the bill
>what the freak was that
>being used for? The money
>what was it doing? Paying
>the elite in Brussels for
>just being elite! Climate change
>is a fraud and you
>say I'm being dog whistled?
>By who? I could say
>the same thing for you.
>I say public land sale
>and it fires you up.
>It's a hot topic.
>
>I want public land to stay
>public but I'm not going
>to vote for a dem
>just because he will vote
>no on a public land
>transfer bill but turn around
>and vote yes on a
>late term abortion bill. I'll
>look for other ways to
>fight the land deal.
>
>BHA never was going to fight
>the land battle for us
>but they sure as hell
>will fight the global warming
>issue with the weight of
>their membership. You and grizz
>got taken and maybe this
>thread is you owning up
>to that fact but to
>call me out as loosing?
>Interesting.


You missed newberg point. And mine. He can speak for himself.

I decided public land was one of my handful of topics I will fight for.

Others, are talked about, campaigned on, fund raised on, but are just that. The Dems are much better on public land only because they haven't found a way to profit from selling it. But so what. Im Not into R or D political power. I'm into public land. Here's the rub. I Don't believe the majority of R politicians want "transfer", but they don't have the balls to say so because the OG money will dry up, and their NRA grade will suffer.

Close the door in your room. Put 50 people in it. The temperature goes up. That's called warming. Of course just the added body temps, reflective surfaces, and greenhouse effect are going to increase temps. To pretend otherwise is silly. Does one volcanoes do more, yup. Do solar spots? Probably.

But that was my point with BHA,this argument is an endless firing squad. If you are a climate group, great. But BHA isn't. Personally I think Land, John, etc are spending too much time in DC and not enough home, and lost touch. It's happened with DU, NRA.

Last. I have 3 kids. All three were in vitro. Remember when your condemning ALL abortion, there are millions of folks who had/have fertilized embryos that they will terminate(abort) at some point. The same God that created the miracle of in vitro, didn't make it without issues.


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>Yes, GOP national has had the
>transfer of federal lands to
>state control as a basic
>tenant of its platform. It
>was a couple years ago
>they added that, I believe
>2016. I'm not sure if
>they've changed it or not?
>I don't see any reason
>why they would have, but
>I guess anything is possible.
>To be clear, in principle,
>I agree that the lands
>should be in state control,
>but knowing what would happen
>if that occurred, I prefer
>them to stay right where
>they are in federal hands.
>And that's pretty sad!
>
>Since we're publishing resumes here to
>show our HONESTY, I guess
>I'll oblige.
>
>I was a registered independent for
>years. I lean conservative both
>fiscally and socially, but have
>long hated political parties in
>general.. I had zero desire
>to be aligned with any
>of them. I registered as
>an R as I wanted
>to vote in a specific
>primary election I had strong
>feelings about, and then afterward
>went to a caucus meeting
>and hated what I was
>hearing so I threw my
>name in the hat to
>try to give my voice
>some volume and effect some
>change. That was a lesson
>learned. Republican county conventions in
>Utah, particularly in my county,
>are nuts. I won't make
>that mistake again. The Republican
>Party has very little to
>offer me, even as a
>conservative. I espouse the view
>of some of the founders
>that stated the two party
>system would be the downfall
>of our nation. I think
>we see that play out
>daily in our country in
>the present.
>
>I didn't vote for President Trump
>in the last presidential election.
>I will not vote for
>him in the next one
>either. While I think there
>have been some good things
>that have transpired the last
>two years, I believe the
>person matters. If you're going
>to be the leader of
>the free world, you should
>at least pretend to be
>a decent human being.
>
>Representative Bishop is not my congressman,
>but if he were, I
>wouldn't vote for him either
>based up on his public
>lands stance. Not sure why
>this became about him and
>calling him out, but I'll
>make my stance perfectly clear,
>so that we can be
>HONEST for YOU.
>
>I have put my money and
>my time and efforts where
>my mouth is on public
>lands/waters/resources. I didn't just hitch
>my wagon to a group
>then yell at everyone on
>the internet that didn't like
>the group and call them
>dumb like some people. I
>have been in the meetings.
>I have been at the
>Capitol. Spent my entire 3rd
>year of law school fighting
>the fight on the ground
>instead of being in the
>books. I was asked to
>join the Governor?s task force
>to try to resolve issues
>on stream access. I did
>research and contributed to the
>lawsuit working to restore public
>rights once the political process
>failed us. This isn't a
>new fight for me. I've
>been in the trenches for
>over a decade.
>
>You can throw out labels, and
>the two of you (Hoss
>and Grizz) can keep holding
>hands to try and attack
>me, keep patting each other
>on the back for your
>great zingers, it doesn't change
>the fact that you guys
>screwed the pooch on this
>one. Glad you're coming to
>your senses. Better late than
>never.
>
>So, I'll wait for Grizz to
>be intellectually HONEST and answer
>the simple questions above. Unless
>he was just spitting crap
>like normal in a facade
>he tries to make look
>like something different.

Our attitudes are quite similar.

But your opinion that I hitched onto a group and yell on the internet, is silly.

I spend my windshield time (20k miles per year) on the phone with my state legislators. Every year I get the intern phone # directory. I use it. But I'll always ask, " who else is calling?".
It's usually a few individuals, then SAVE OUR CANYONS. Few years ago it started being BHA as well. Seemed their members were actually getting involved.

I Don't backpack. I don't hang out in wilderness areas. I use roads. I atv. But I KNOW I do all that stuff on public, so, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I've never met grizz. I've PM him a couple times. I've never been to pint night. I wasn't looking for friends. I was looking for allies.

I smack $FW because they support politicians that are pro privatization. And in fact, are pro privatization as a group. I am offended they take money from public land hunters to give to privatization politicians. That's why I want their books opened.

I have/had friends in their leadership. Some with contracts I'd like, that i won't get because of my adamant stance. The biggest contractor in my area is soooo anti Patagonia he doesn't allow their logo in his offices or sites. I will never get a shot at his business because of my belief that Patagonia burning their money to fight for shared causes is good.

My point is unlike some "internet yeller" my stances are real world, and effect my bottom line.

I crush Bishop because unlike random congressman, he was the Chair of resources. He's still the ranking member. HE HAD/HAS. the ability to effect change. Instead he starved FS/BLM budgets so he could tgen grandstand on poor management, bad stewardship. He IS a liar.

I read Mike Lee's speech to Sutherland. He straight forward lies. He's not honest in opposition. He's lies to his constituents face. And anytime either get a little heat, out comes the "Utah values" dog whistle.

That is why I pound the 2 of them. It's why I pound Ivory as well. If They had guts they would run on "we need to sell public land to increase economic output". Tgey Don't because they KNOW it's unpopular and a loser. So they lie. They conjure up some "states rights" bs, or better management lie.

They are cowards, and liars. Giving tgem "the benefit of the doubt", like you did with PILT and Ivory, is to pretend what their ultimate goal is, and their strategy of death by a thousand cuts isn't happening.

But it is good to see you spit the chit out of your mouth and speak straight for once.

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Exactly, population control. To many people and we will melt so make abortion legal and then campaign on it and promote it and encourage it. It's probably in the climate change by laws.

Are you serious? Temps go up? Study the SUN Hoss it is what controls temperature and our little body heat probably has very little to effect how it heats the atmosphere.

Again you are just as gullible as Grizz, hook line and sinker man!

Iceland used to be a tropical ? island back many years ago. Then ?climate change? came and it froze, now it looks like it's turning a cycle. Soon we will be headed to Iceland to surf and fleeing Hawaii because it's iced over. (Sarcasm)

Why do dems and some Republicans make 30-40 year predictions on this so called climate change scam? Who is ever going to remember they said that 30-40 years prior when nothing happened. It's like Y2K... on yeah 20 years ago the world was going to end remember? Still waiting.....

If your people can effectively change your behavior so you literally decide to buy an electric car rather than a Diesel or take another route to work so it is cleaner for the air by going down 500 N as apposed to Main Street then you loose and you are being controlled. It's just a matter of time before we are living among robots. They will watch the morning news and the media will tell us what route we can go, how we can travel, walking or riding a bike, maybe they will tell us that the left side of the street has to car pool and the other side of the street needs to walk to work.

I'm a general contractor as are you and I seriously talk with people that are making decisions whether to build something or not based on how it will effect climate?.

Frankly is makes me nauseous dealing with such gullible people. But they will put their entire family on a plan and fly to Hawaii. Where does the madness stop?
 
We Have WASTED Billions of Dollars on Global Warming!

Problem is 99% of that money went to nothing more than 'Study'!

Oh and maybe some of Obama's Friends!

JFP!

I've said for 40+ Years we could be running Passenger Cars on Natural Gas!

It's not the only Answer!

But it'd Damn Sure Be a Start!

Ah F'it!

The Invincible Future F-150 that Pulls a Million Pounds + sounds Perty Damn Good to me!

Let's see how that pans out!

Still wondering what an F-350 will be capable of?












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> The biggest contractor in
>my area is soooo anti
>Patagonia he doesn't allow their
>logo in his offices or
>sites.




I like him already!
 
>I still want to know how
>you stop a F150 pulling
>a million pounds.

Gotta be some kinda Reverse action to all the Green powered Thrust I'm Guessin?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I posted a little bit different scenario in the political forum but I thought it was relevant on this discussion.

Wife(BHA), Husband(Bishop),
Kids(True Hunters & Angelers),
Arizona Strip Deer Permit(Windmills),
Night out on Town Swank Italian Restraunt & Hamlet the musical (Political Capital)
Savings for trip to Disneyland(Public Lands)
Husband draws out for Arizona Strip Deer permit.
So husband takes wife out on town for dinner at Swank Italian restaurant & Hamlet the musical.
Husband goes on a once in a lifetime hunt on the Arizona Strip Deer permit.(Loses Political Capital)
Wife gets night out on town swank Italian restaurant & Hamlet the musical.(Gains Political Capital)
Savings for Disneyland trip spent on once in a lifetime hunt and night out on the town.
Kids lose because mom & dad think only of themselves.
So in short BHA gains political capital, Rob Bishop loses political capital but gains dollars in his retirement fund and true hunters & anglers lose public land.
 
>Do these liberals that haven't
>even seen a polar bear
>realize that they swim? Have
>you ever put ice in
>a glass of water and
>watch it melt? Glass doesn't
>overflow! The sea is not
>going to rise because ice
>from the arctic is melting
>of into the ocean.
>

This literally made me laugh out loud. Sound science here.
 

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